DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Shell Game Capitalism

Don't have to be lies... but when the subject of socialism comes up, you are not allowed to consider the places it has failed miserably, you are only allowed to imagine two cute, white scandinavian people skipping hand in hand through the streets of their town to get their free medical care... considering that it could turn out any other way is not allowed.

The problem is that you conservatives only bring up the places that failed. Then get mad when the left points out places it’s working great.

Stop being fake.

We would most closely mirror Europe but everyone of your ilk avoids that like the plague and instead tries to point to the worst example. This is neither accurate nor genuine.

Maybe you are missing the point.

Yeah, Great Britain looks like...... Never mind.

I think you missed the point. A 'revenue cutting spree' is precisely backing down from the state/fed. gov't. siphoning money from the private sector.

Folks, we have a spending problem. Period. I don't care who's in office.

I explained it fairly well earlier for those with reading/comprehension ability and that are NOT partisan.

Congress - the congress people love the money they make (outside of their salaries), they want to be re-elected.

How do they do that? Spend tax money to get votes. Screw the country.

L, R. Rep. Dem. or Ind.

Does it make sense to you yet? We have a spending problem.

We absolutely have a spending problem, and it's self-perpetuating.

We funnel money to the special interests groups, who then donate money to campaigns to ensure their candidate gets elected, who then ensures that federal money gets funneled to the special interest groups, who then donate money to campaigns to ensure their candidate gets elected, who then ensures that federal money gets funneled to the special interest groups...I'm dizzy now.

Thats kinda what I was getting at.

Thank God we've got nuclear weapons because our economy is make believe. If the rest of the world had the balls to call us on it, we'd be screwed. "We're" probably crazy enough to go nuclear if they did call us on it, so here we are.

I know, bro. I was just bolstering your point.

I don't. I think there is much to be admired about what some of the Euro countries have accomplished and there is a lot we could learn from them and things we could adopt.

What it comes down to for me is our government's ability to enact and implement programs correctly. And I don't trust our government to pull off a successful yard sale, let alone provide wholesale changes to major American economic systems/institutions. As exhibit A, I offer you the new covid stimulus debacle.

Correct. This 'stimulus' is a flat out farce.

Over 5,000 pages long - tell me a single congress person OR their staff read it and understood it.

But, hey, here's $600.




Jobs? I don't know how it is elsewhere in this country, but companies around here are hiring, and no, not minimum wage jobs.

Anyone read anything about the amount of money going over seas? The amount of money going to pet projects?

Not just responding to you. Some of the positive examples of socialism working aren't actually examples at all.


https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/be...lse-ncna1158636

Every economically successful country in the world today employs some combination of capitalist qualities and socialist qualities, including the United States. Some have just found a better balance than others.

Until recently, all but the really hard core left kept away from the very word "socialism" (and denounced it when asked) because it had such a negative stigma associated with it. That has started to change. The right still gets extremely triggered by the concept of socialism and immediately equates it to horrible outcomes... many on the left get triggered by the word capitalism and think it is responsible for all the horrors in America. This successfully prevents any meaningful conversations about how the US could move toward finding a better balance and thus improve the lives of countless millions of people while still maintaining the economy, R&D, innovation, all of the good things that happen under capitalism.. while not disenfranchising millions from the success of capitalism.

Yeah, it's another case of absolutism. My mom decries socialism in a way that harkens back to the Red scare, yet she received social security and thinks nothing of it.

On the flip side, my nephew decries capitalism, yet is trying to develop an app that would make him a millionaire.

It's another case of indoctrination gone wild. Thinking through concepts is often set aside for engrained, visceral reactions.

Success during capitalism/socialism doesn't really mean success of either system. Some people will struggle and find success regardless of what lousy system is in place. How does one even really define success? The stock market is a lousy way to measure success. Easily manipulated speculation should not be seen as an accurate indicator of a healthy economy. The constant need for the Fed to pump more baseless currency into the system to keep it (the illusion of it) functioning should be raising more red flags.

As you say, the insistence on a clearly delineated dichotomy between capitalism and socialism is an issue. Honestly, though, like Republicans and Democrats, those are just cover (/largely meaningless labels) to hide the real hidden, jacked up grinding wheels of our underlying systems. Quick pick an answer, blame a label, and stop thinking about the actual problems. These are your multiple choice answers, you have to pick one. Who cares if they are all wrong? No essays allowed. Pick the best one. Can't have people thinking. Gotta pick a side and defend it to the death as is.

I call BS on this opinion hit piece. The authors last name is 'Schatz' and he seems to be taking one on Bernie.

If you are going to call BS on an opinion article, regarding Scandinavian politics and economics, by this guy.....



You better come with more than "I don't like his last name" and "He's picking on the Bernie Bros."

Just sayin'.

I looked into who he was, still a hit piece. JMHO

BTW, I also don't care.

FWIW, I had to wade through a few actual hit pieces to get to that piece. While he certainly doesn't hide bias, he presents the basis of his beliefs clearly and transparently enough.

It sounds like you're calling it a hit piece because it's poking holes in the foundation of Bernie's view on how we should be moving. The country he keeps using as an example is one that apparently had to move further away (not closer) to socialism in order to prevent the system from collapsing under its own weight.

Not really. Most of us older dawgs were raised to care about others, be social, be part of the team, work hard, protect the weak/helpless, etc. NONE of that reflects much in today's US. Hell you got one party that grabs their guns and storms a state house every time they don't like something. And you have the other side that thinks they are smarter and thereby better than that other side... then you have progressives, not twitter progressives, but people who actually care about other people to the point of wanting to make sure we all do well. And even that group acts ridiculous and ignorant when things don't go their way, myself included at times. So, I don't buy that their socialist programs are only successful due to their basic culture. And it's not that I don't think that might be part of the success, but no way is it the sole reason "in spite of" poor social programs. Therefore it's BS.