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I don't follow along closely enough to know if you have a beef with Depo or a beef with another poster who is a Depo supporter.

my 2 cents -

It's been stated by multiple sources within the Browns Organization that Depo isn't and wasn't a decision maker. He supplied analysis and opinion to others who made calls. Trying to slam Depo for draft selections seems misguided at best. Saying we don't know what he does is disingenuous - he's our strategy officer. He and the organization have told us - but somehow posters twist it into being a role and having influence above and beyond what he and the organization have stated.

It has also been relayed by multiple sources - including a recent article in the The Athletic which is a source damn good Sport Journalism that Depo had McDermott top of his HC list when Haslam's wanted to hire Hue.... McDermott was clearly the better choice.

Depo also wanted to hire Stefanski the year Dorsey put Kitchens in charge. That's on record at multiple sources also.

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2019/1/...slam-intervened

https://sports.yahoo.com/paul-depodesta-finally-gets-man-174750912.html

I'm glad we have Depo - he seems smart and balanced. I am glad we have Stefanski. He seems smart and balanced. I am glad we have Berry, he seems smart and balanced and it appears to me looking in from the outside without an iota of proof - that they 3 of them could sit in a room and discuss players, draft prospects and any aspect of the team and they could all disagree strongly but come together and make a decision they all support. Something we have clearly lacked in the last 20 years.

I think their priorities are in sync.

Some characterize Dorsey's selection of Kitchens as a power play. Maybe that's true, I don't know. I'm going to be charitable and chalk it up to Dorsey gambling on a guy who some thought would be part of a crop of new, young, up and coming coordinators.

It appears to me that this FO doesn't rely on gambling.

My understanding, based on what was said at the time of his hiring and since, is that Depo's roll has always been about making sport's franchises better businesses; identifying ways to improve efficiency of the business. Depo has demonstrated a remarkable talent over 2 decades for doing that. That its taken so long here has more to say about Haslam than Depo.

Here is the bottom line. Depo was learning on the fly. When he first got here he had zero experience in the football world. Trying to make it sound like he was some whiz kid from day one sounds ridiculous to me.

Has he learned over time? Yes. Is he currently doing a good job? Yes, f we actually knew what that job was. I mean he isn't even the GM.

I have nothing against Depo. I think he has grown into being a valuable asset to us. But rewriting history is a fools errand. He came here with zero NFL experience. That's why he was very limited in his power. Even to this day he hasn't been entrusted with the GM job.

To claim that simply passing the buck down the road by Sashi was some great work of strategy seems silly to me. Anyone can trade down and accumulate picks. Only those with actual NFL experience know how to invest those assets. We all know about the kid who inherited daddy's money and blew it because he had no clue how to handle it. The credit should go to the people who knew how to invest those assets.

Now we're in a position where several of our top players will be reaching the point that new contracts will have to be met at the same time or very close together. I'm not so sure how "smart" that strategy is going to work out.

I've been intrigued by the speedster we acquired from Detroit, but Hodge and DPJ have kept him on the bench so far:

"The Browns claimed Hall off waivers after Detroit decided to cut the 27-year-old Dec. 5, but he's now been a healthy scratch in back-to-back games with his new team. Hall produced 14 receptions for 234 yards and a touchdown over his final five appearances as a Lion between Weeks 8 and 12, however, Cleveland has decided to proceed with KhaDarel Hodge and Donovan Peoples-Jones as its third and fourth WR options for Sunday night."

I wouldn't expect to see him on the field with the offense until he shows he has earned the spot in Stefanski's eyes.

He has speed and some talent; that got him to CLE... but at this point in the season, he isn't even going to dress for the games until he has proven himself to be more valuable than whatever special teamer he'd be displacing from the regular game day roster.

This isn't the old days where random players could get a shot.... he's a player trying to get time with one of our deepest and most talented position groups.

and as I said back in 2016 this was a five year plan. Guess what this is the 5th year. 10-4 so far.

Yes you did. And to most of us it was pretty apparent what the plan was. I think most people who weren't viewing the situation in simplistic terms could see that.

I had no idea where we had a plan to keep hiring innept coaches all these years. Yeah, we were just waiting until year five to hire someone who could actually do the job. Then of course 1-15 and 0-16 seasons were part of the plan. Dear Lord.

I for one think that Sashi was between good and damn good. Yes there were a coupe misteps, but if you look at what his purpose was, I think he did it well. I shudder to think where we'd be if he allowed hue to get A.J.

Here's one that might throw you guys: I think a Dorsey/DePo/Ski relationship could have worked out if Dorsey's priorities were a little more in line. In this back and forth Dorsey is credited with some awesome talent he brought here. What gets overlooked is the back half of the equation in that many are still here. Instead of playing the familiar cut 'em because they "aren't our guys" when Dorsey left, they were retained. This suggests that some of the players Dorsey picked ALSO checked boxes on the analytic side. IIRC prior to that Draft it was said Baker also killed it analytically. Having Dorsey with DePo had the potential to bridge the gap between the old school and new school, between the eye test and the written test.

This thing DePo has been trying to establish here has never been an all or nothing deal. I haven't even had to listen to many of his speeches or read interviews and see that his whole process actually values input from those old schoolers. He's talked about trying to figure out how to bring them on board, not throw them over board and replace them.

Too much effort has gone in to trying to make out like DePo's been implementing a purely numbers based system. If that were the case, how'd we end up with Stefanski? How did Stefanski come up twice as a recommendation? He doesn't have prior HC experience. What kind of "data" is he going to have that the Bat Computer is going to say he is the one?

Personally I think DePo actually does have an appreciation and also recognizes not the value but the necessity of things like professionalism, organization, and leadership.

But that's just what I see

No doubt that poor coaches wasn't a part of the plan.

By all accounts Haslam made the push for Hue. No doubt that Sashi and Depo didn't since they were hired only days before.

After that it is pretty clear that Haslam was out of selecting coaches and let Dorsey select his hand picked guy.

Both Hue and Freddie sucked as head coaches.

No doubt the tear down didn't help us win games in the moment, but I don't think the coaching helped anything. Look back to the early years after we got our team back. Many of those rosters weren't any better than the rosters we had after the rebuild began, yet we managed to win some games.

At any rate, we look to have a solid front office, coaching staff, and a group of players we can build around.

What are we fussing about?

Go Browns!

Where do you come up with this crap? Name a single person who has suggested this was the case?

Tell you what.. you keep doing you boo. Keep framing these discussions in the context of arguments that no one is making. Maybe someone else will waste their time on it.

I actually think Hue was on board initially with what we were trying to do. He had the hardest job of anyone just do due to the fact he was the face of everything and had to deal with the brunt of the criticism. Ultimately I think it wore on him enough that he could no longer endure such a longview and felt he had to salvage something. To be honest I'm not sure any coach would have made it through the same time period. Perhaps the greatest flaw in The Plan was thinking such a thing was possible.

Just a couple of points.

1. I am not sure how sold Hue was with the plan.

Hue was about Hue. I don't think he was very excited about it after he got hired. I am sure he was all in when explaining to Jimmy why he was the perfect fit as head coach of the Browns. JMO

2. I don't know who or how many coaches might have survived. I do know that Sashi never got a shot to be in Hues corner to stick up for him, so there is that.

I am not going to say if Sashi should have stayed or not. What I will say is I am damn glad Depo did. My personal feeling is that Dorsey wanted to get rid of Depo as soon as possible.

Three years ago, I wanted Mayfield or Josh Allen, and no part of Darnold or Rosen. I was brilliant!
But then I have to admit, last year (earlier this year?), I really, really wanted Mike McCarthy. Wanted no part of Stefanski. Man, was I an idiot!
To all my fellow Dawgtalkers, we fight and argue and call each other out. The fights are petty and ridiculous, but still, we have shared a bond of misery for decades. And now, we are good! What a gift. Merry Christmas!

I'm certainly not fussing about where we are. I just find those trying to rewrite history hilarious.

I know as much as you wish it were so, I am still certainly not your boo.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

No big deal. I thought the thread made that rather self explanatory.

I thought your boo comment was directed at me...I must be losing my mind

Actually you aren't. I posted it to you by mistake and had to edit it.

1! the whole subject is bs.
2. I'll explain because I feel the same as him and understand the point he's making.

3. People can't just type comments, (not sure who, because again the whole argument is bs to even have at this point), comments that,
" it was a 5 year plan from the beginning"

NO 5 year plan has 0-16 nearly twice as part of it!
No 5 year plan has blowing things up 3 times in it as part of it!
No 5 year plan says, hey, (let me describe it)

It's a Journey from New Orleans- to New York!
1. Headlong for San Francisco full speed!!!
Halfway there, "Wrong turn in Alburque, let's take a 4 month walk toward Key West, .. Everybody on board?

3, When ya get to Oklahoma City, because you can't walk straight, someone has pity and offers a ride to Memphis.

4 After (Oh, did I originally say trip was to New York, ... who was listening, we meant trip is to Cleveland! yay! Cleveland Rocks! by the way)
4. After getting the hitchhike ride to Memphis from a pity from a stranger,

5 You are halfway up Kentucky in a limping motor vehicle, full steam headed in the right direction, "Here we come Cleveland! Glory land! Super Bowl! Parade,
"C'mon Motor Vehicle, don't give out now!"

FIVE, YEAR, PLAN.
(Can we get a 5 star Yelp/ lift/ uber/ whatever review?? for the Journey???)

Then his comment makes a little more sense. to quote his comment
" I just find those trying to rewrite history hilarious"

FGoodness Sakes! I stood Right there in the Break room at work!!!
And the Browns didn't even have a head coach at 8 am, and at 9 am they had a coach ,
there were reports the Browns had a coach, one they never hired! and then a different one 8 hours later.
3 coaches in and None Haley who I had steeler fans trying to convince me they had hired Haley to be the next coach,
Chief Strategy officer!
Chief Strategy officer! For the 2 years prior and 2 years past, and today!

Oh Pat on the 'Blessed" back for the chief strategy officer who never appeared to
Either, Step in and do something
or Explain this, or at least step down while this,

I mean is this a Strategy in any world where the traffic lights are red yellow and green?

Pat on the Back, right direction, this time,

Just don't rewrite history to give yourself an award, be happy to be a part of the ride.
Where is Gregg Williams?

Love you man.....don't take this wrong, it's probably my problem, but IMO you do your best work when you keep your comments to 25 words or less.

Nope we now Sashi did the job he was hired to due. He did the demo work on the rebuild.

I fixed that for you.

It sounds as if the eggnog was mixed a little stiff.

""If the NFL keeps the Browns out of the Playoffs, then 2020 is no better than last year's 6-10 record.""

Just saw this posted in a locked thread ... and I have 2 questions for everyone:

[1] How many of you spend your time and invest energy and emotion into a team that you ultimately believe plays a sport where outcomes are predetermined and is not competitive based on ability of the team?

[2] How many of you feel that a 6-10 record is the same as an 11-5 record if we don't make the playoffs?

I don't understand a living soul who would watch or care about a sport if they thought the games were fixed.

After 20 years of the Browns since the return - if you feel the same about this team as last year's team - and GM, and HC etc - unless we get into the playoffs ... then I really truly pity you.

So your saying there has never in the history of the nfl been a game that was fixed?

Clearly he's stating that he hates wrestling.




that's a joke, obviously. Not worth getting angered over.

I do hate wrestling, and anything that is fake. And as a Browns fan I have had plenty of calls and momements when I get frustrated with the officiating, and I absolutely think certain players - Brady and others - get calls that other teams and players don't get. But I think that's a result of human flaws and failings, not a scheme orchestrated by the "Deep State" of the NFL to control which teams/markets get to play in the play offs.

Officiating sucks in most games - it is not unique to Cleveland.

I look at your post with almost the same level of disbelief as the ones you're calling out.

Almost.

This is an org that has defined and redefined "finding ways to fail". I do believe things are changing, but I acknowledge that our losing ways aren't that far behind us (in fact, I think we're still working out from them).

Let's not confuse 'sport' with 'entertainment'....lol

I have gotten several clients in the wrestling world and there is a major difference between WWE and the last true gladiator sport.

You are going to have to expand or explain a little.

You think the NFL is fixed? Or you think this season is the same as last season unless we make the playoffs? And you think my post is naïve or ignorant? . . . . I'm not 100% sure what you are saying.

Wrestling is one of the greatest sports ever.