DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2020 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 16 Jets 23 Post game thoughts

I felt like he snapped it a second too soon ... I think the design is to wait until the man in motion is more behind him so he can help push

Baker may have still been slightly moving forward. It's pretty hard for me to tell watching the reply. The question would then hinge on when the refs blew the whistle. Once they feel forward progress has been stopped, the play gets blown dead. So at that point, it's anyone's guess.

It looks like quite a few posts were deleted from this thread. Its unfortunate IMO because even though people disagreed, it never became abusive.

Baker could win 5 super bowls and somebody would complain about him being a bum after every loss. It's frustrating as hell in the game day forum. We should have two, one for fans and one for Lead, slick, etc. to whine in, just so the rest of us can enjoy talking about the games live.

Right up to the day he retired (the first time), Brett Favrerererre still had Packers fans that hated him and didn't think he was the best they could do at QB; that they should have traded him away when they could have in order to draft <insert_QB_du_jour_here>.

You really should try the game day chat.

I have to agree with Purp on this one.

The OL played poorly yesterday, that is why we could not run, had strip sacks and other challenges.

A healthy OL would have changed the outcome.

Our receivers do a lot of run blocking also. That probably wasnt working well either.

Probably a combination of all the things you wrote. I did not mean to rip the D, I think we lack some talent at key positions but I honestly believe the talent will be better next season. I am usually an optimistic fan but still have the 20 years of poor play influence in my head.

Regardless of yesterday or next Sunday's result, this year has helped make 2020 a little more bearable.

WR blocking is only relevant if the ball carrier can get out of the backfield.

Well, over 7 pages in and no one has said it "Cut Sandejo"!

Actually I saw him make some really nice plays including a great open field tackle on 3rd down that forced a punt.

I know we don't have a Who's Who Defense, but I'm actually less convinced week after week that the main issue is this alleged massive talent deficiency.

I see a defense that as a whole has a tendency to take bad angles. What's more likely: several people taking bad angles OR a scheme that doesn't put its players i the right positions to begin with?

OR is there lack of a QB on defense who can get people in the right positions?

When's the last time anyone saw a Browns LB in the backfield or at least attempting to get there? We never seem to run delayed blitzes or end a DB or LB in to the lanes created when Vernon and Myles get blocked upfield. Even if your LB is legitimately bad, he's still probably better going forward than he his dropping back.

I guess its still not clear to me what the role or purpose of our LBs in this scheme.

On a side note: props to Vernon and the year he has been having. He's gotten a lot of criticism for not playing up to the contract he was signed for. This second half of the seasons I think is the guy we signed.

Offensively... I've noticed the past couple of weeks that we've tended to get one-dimensional of our own doing. Baker has had a hot h and so I can see why you'd roll with it but you can't forget who you are to begin with and I think that's what happened. We should have run the ball more. Even with as little as we did you could start to see later in the game that the Jets DEF was starting to tire.

I think Baker should have forced the WRs to get involved earlier. Our TEs should have been primed for a huge game, but even when they weren't dropping passes they clearly weren't stretching the field like we needed. Hooper should have had a better game. Bryant clearly isn't very confident after his earlier fumbles. Njoku has the speed and can stretch things but he was a non-factor for most of the game.

In any event, this is a young team with a young coach. We'll get there.

I am disappointed that mine got deleted.

I would guess this game is karma for Baker.

Last week: Don't stumble.

This week: Don't fumble.

I am concerned that Baker doesn't play well with heavy expectations. He's a guy that plays better as the underdog or when things are easy. Then again, it doesn't get any easier than playing a 1-13 team, and he wet the bed.

I don't have a lot of confidence about this game at all. The Steelers are going to play to win no matter who's playing and who's sitting.

Mostly I think Baker is an emotional guy. He struggles in adverse situations and just needs to relax.

I don't really blame him for the passing game issues. I'm sure those receivers were not running routes perfect and the timing was off.

Which is probably why he held onto the ball way too long. He was trying to see where the hell they were.

he definitely is a “feel” guy .. he’s gotta feel confident and ride the wave. When he’s “on” he’s about as accurate and competent as any QB not named Mahomes or Rodgers

Honestly before this past Sunday, I could only name 3 QBs playing better ... Mahomes, Rodgers, and Allen. You may have been able to sneak another name in there, Watson, maybe, but he was playing like a top 5 QB.

Then when he was needed the most, he wet the bed. I can't believe he had the nerve to tell the fans to change their expectations, then failed to deliver against a 1-13 team.

WR’ s don’t have as much impact if there is no hole to run.

I can't believe he couldn't create a rapport with WR #7, 8, 9 and 10 with the 15 minutes he spent with them in the parking garage.

#cuthimnow

The Browns still fielded a way more talented team than the Jets. Better QB, better RBs, better TEs, better OL, better DL. No one said it was going to be easy. But if they can't beat a 1-13 team with a better team with so much on the line, why should we be happy about that?

After all the losing, all the heartbreak, all the watching other teams get better, have down years, then get better again while the Browns stayed a bottom five team for dawn near 20 years, and we are supposed to be happy with moral victories? I honestly don't understand this fan base. Someone told someone else the other day they wouldn't want them in their foxhole. I wouldn't pick 99% of you to play a pickup basket game with me. I'm too damn competitive.

Ahhh, so it means we're "happy" if we don't b*tch and moan, in every post... for days on end.

And if we have a different perspective, we're not competitive enough. Gotcha. Meanwhile, you ping pong from the furthest stretch of every extreme -- week after week.

It's all good. We'll beat the Steelers next week, Baker will be the greatest again and we'll be on our way to the Superbowl.

Your logic is fundamentally flawed.

Ask the Steelers how they lost 3 in a row after starting 11-0... 2 of the losses were to substandard teams, Washington and Cincinnati. A team absorb only so many losses of key players in a position group before they re-group to figure things out. Losing Teller is a drop, Hubbard hurt more, Wills, ouch, now the Browns are in uncharted territory. Take 4 wideouts on 24 hours notice, yikes.

Football is a team sport, Moreso than baseball or basketball. Individual skill is as important as group skill.

It is also the underlying reason the Browns were skunked by Baltimore in the opener, but played essentially a toss-up game a couple of weeks ago.

You sound like "that guy" out there playing beer league hockey but thinks they're playing for the Stanley Cup every Monday at 11pm. Don't be 'that guy'.
I agree with you that they still should've won, but you seem to forget that good teams do lose to bad teams. I mean, all those years we were awful (except for 1-31) we'd pick up a couple upsets each season. We had a streak going where we beat the reigning champs for a couple years.

Me too. We got a little salty, but there was no name calling, forbidden curse words, or abusive piling on. Its annoying when you try to take the time to post something more than "Browns suck!" or "Browns Rule!", and the mods take it upon themselves to just erase it because things got a little testy. I get that we are just guests here, and that the message board is not our property, but that kind of heavy-handed moderation was why I ditched Browns Chat back when the original DT went away.

I have no problem whatsoever blaming Baker for this loss. And I'm sure he'd tell you the same thing. One thing he wouldn't tell you however is that we don't have a snowball's chance of even being in that game without him.

Lost here is the fact we couldn't run. We didn't have anyone to pass to. How in the heck were we going to win this game? Baker put this team on his back and despite the early struggles carried them back into the game.

When everything was doom and gloom Baker got his teammates going, elevating their play, knowing they could win this game! That's what Brady does, that's what Drew does. Neither one wins 100% of the time.

And yes, while I thought Baker's efforts were heroic, we fell short. And that sucks. Imagine being so far behind the 8 ball to come back and see your teammates fighting as they were (even the defense was stepping up) driving for a tying touchdown under 2 minutes inside the 20 when we were once down 20-3... only to fumble and lose the game.

I can tell you this, no one on that team feels like a bigger piece of $&!+ than Baker.

Baker isn't looking for personal achievements. And this is what made him the #1 pick.... he wants to win! He wants to see his teammates succeed. I don't understand why many want to twist it that he's all about himself when clearly he's not. He loves this game and he loves his teammates. He wants to win for them and the fans more than he ever wanted to win for himself.

And for me, yeah we lost a crap hand and should have won. It happens. But for me it's how we respond. If we don't win easily on Sunday, I might be mildly surprised.

If I'm anyone in that building, on that team, or have anything to do with the Browns organization, come Sunday I want nothing more than to throttle Pittsburgh and I don't even care if it means making the playoffs and I don't even care that it's Pittsburgh.

I'm pissed, you're pissed, they're pissed and someone needs to pay. Having it be the Steelers makes it even more satisfying... But I'm not feeling the pressure to win. I'm angry, and I don't even care if it means win we're in the playoffs, I just want go out there, play like I know we can, dominate whatever team is in our way and win the next freakin game!

That's why I thought if the NFL had postponed the game at least till Mon night was not asking too much. At least they could have came up with a few plays!

Watching the Bills/Pats after game interview with Josh Allen and Steohon Diggs ... and after they brought up how much Allen improved from last year to this ... and how much adding 2 quality receivers in Diggs and Cole Beasley helped bring then about.

A huge difference from when people were lambasting Baker for not playing up to some imaginary "good enough" standard when he had no receivers he had thrown to before Sunday.

I told myself I wouldn't listen to the talking heads on TV this week but I couldn't resist to see if they bashed the Browns considering the situation! I'm still amazed the expectations they have for Baker and the Browns! Take all 4 receivers away from (insert team) the day before and let's see how the play? This includes GB and KC, the only difference would be the reaction when they lost!

Mox I agree with you but not taking care of the ball on those fumbles has nothing to do with the WR's or anybody else but Baker. It's on him. I like Baker a lot I want him to be our franchise QB I have no axes to grind with him.

j/c:

if we weren't missing 6 players on offense ( 5 decided the day before) we wouldn't be talking about this. He had a bad game which he took but since October he's led the league for taking care of the ball. Not even close and that's compared to the best QBs this year

OK Mox fine. But when it came down to crunch time Sunday on our last 2 possessions he turned it over. I'm not saying he's prone to it, he's not, but it happened when we needed to take care of the ball the most.

I think some are underestimating how hard it is to adjust a game plan that you’ve worked on all week less than 24 hours before the game. You can just say, “Hey Kareem, you’re a wide receiver now.” After he and his teammates haven’t practiced that way at all that week.

My guess is that if we knew Monday that these guys were all going to be out the results would have been very different.

In the end it is on the players to follow the protocol and they didn’t.

and you are correct this last game and I've also seen him bring the team from behind on the final drive more times than not. When it comes down to the final drive I'm honestly confident with the ball in Bakers hands believing we will score. But put our defense on the field stopping any team from scoring in the final minute and I've already except we've lost. In the Ravens game when they scored to go up I was positive we'd score to tie it but what happened to our defense in under a minute against a QB that can't throw the ball ( threw it maybe 13 times all game) they allowed him to complete 4 passes to get in FG range. I'll take Baker for the win over our defense every single time and believe every single time he's going to score. It's been a long time since I've had that confidence in our offense and I'm 55 years old!

I'm not understanding why that 4th down QB sneak is being referred to as a Mayfield turnover.The fumble was recovered by Hunt. It was the circumstances of the game (final 2 minutes, 4th down play - Dave Casper Rule) and the fact that he did not make the line of gain with forward progress that caused the loss of possession - not the fumble. On the QB sneak our interior OL got blown up, and the DE crashed down - unblocked by Lamm - to pull Mayfield back. It was a failed 4th down conversion.

I think the biggest issue we had Sunday was the new guys on the OL. I think Baker could/did overcome the odd WR situation, but not when coupled with an OL that simply couldn't run block.

If we had the full compliment of WR, we could overcome the OL.

If we had the full compliment of OL, we could overcome the WR.

We had neither...pretty simple really.

j/c

If you ignore the obvious limitations we had due to Covid, then you can whine. If you feel you have a legitimate complaint about our team when we had to play the 7th, 8th, 9th and 00th WR's on the roster and the #7 and #8 ranked OL players on our rosters, Bless your heart. And that's without ANY practice time.

Nobody is ever "happy" with a loss or feel that a "moral victory" is something to cheer. Those are tired claims that simply provide an excuse to delegitimize the very real circumstances that we faced.

The fact of the matter is that in our very first year under Stefanski our Browns have won 10 games thus far. That is never a teams ultimate goal. The ultimate goal is to win the Super Bowl. That's the goal every year.

Point being, there are reasons to dislike some of the play we saw on the field. There are legitimate reasons to expect more on game day.

This team has made a huge leap forward this year. For someone to actually believe this team had anything close to enough time to prepare for this game given the circumstances is foolish.

We are not a finished product. We are currently working toward that. I for one can see the progress that not only this team has made, but that Baker too has made. Trying to undermine that reality based on one game under these circumstances is fools gold. It doesn't spend well.

FWIW, I agree with your entire post.

Another thing I thought of with several fans calling radio stations for the Browns to change the game plan or at least significantly alter it after the news the players were unavailable sounds pretty simple.

If so, why don't NFL teams just install the game plans Friday afternoon or Saturday. That way should a key player be unexpectedly injured late Thursday they did not waste all that time.