DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Prepare for bloodshed

I'm not so sure the times we live in today has anything to do with it other than the thought process people use.

There was a time not so long ago that actual evidence and what was most certainly obvious was accepted by most. As time has gone on, when people don't see the results they had hoped to, they search for some far fetched scheme in order to see the results they want to see.

And as with your post I don't mean this as a reflection on you, just a general observation.

I agree. I think it's a natural inclination with most people to try and overcome inconvenient facts, rather than to acknowledge them. It's the basis for many media outlets today, both on the right and left. This is a self-perpetuating and self-expanding dynamic which validates fringe beliefs and conspiracy theories.

This may be a result of my profession, but I view it as if something has a 5-10% chance of being true, and 90-95% chance of being false, then you go with the 90-95% chance, even if you want to believe the 5-10% chance is what actually happened.

That's how I feel about the voter fraud situation, and 5-10% chance of something that happened is being way too generous, IMO, given that the plaintiffs are 1-60 in court filings.

For the most part we agree. And the most liberal of media outlets deserve the reputation they have earned. The problem as I see it is that those on the far right have labeled any media outlet that doesn't walk lock step with their agenda as liberal. CBS is not a liberal media source. The same could be said for ABC and many media outlets like Reuters and the AP. Yet they get labeled as liberal as well.

The way I see it is that the vast majority of news sources are which you describe people seeing as liberal are using your 90-95% example while those on the far right will be using your 5-10% example.

I don't actually see, in this case at least, that it's a liberal verses conservative media issue. I see it as a fact verses fiction issue. In many cases we would agree. I just see this particular case differently.

I don't think we see that differently. This is a fact vs fiction issue. To me, it's just that one subset is placing their bet on the 5-10% chance to win, while the other is going for 90-95%.

I didn't mean to make this about media groups, either. I was just naming that as a dynamic to coincide with your point about people lending more and more credence to conspiracy theories. Previously, I think people would hint at conspiracy theories being true, but then it would dissipate with a more objective media. Now, I think there are two dynamics: one, where people say "I bet this is a result of X conspiracy theory" and then they tune into a media station that says "it absolutely is a result of that," or two, someone like Trump introduces a conspiracy theory and he now has a host of media outlets to expand it and deliver it to people who would want to believe in it.

I do think it's worse on the right, currently, with the potential to also take that same form on the left. Before, it used to be pretty much Fox News vs MSNBC serving as the left and right goal posts, but now Fox News almost appears more centrist in comparison to outlets like Newsmax, OANN and Breitbart. I haven't noticed that happening on the left (yet).

Yes, with outlets like Newsmax, Brietbart and OAN it feels as though a cancer is spreading that feeds those who want to hear conspiracy theories that make them the victims rather than look for the answers to why their party is losing.

Sadly they haven't figured out that is the same strategy that caused them to lose the presidency and both senate seats in Georgia. Sadly we will see many common sense Republicans follow the law and the constitution today in helping appoint a duly elected president. As a reward for that they will be vilified and scorned for following the law and their constitutional duties.

I hope the sane Republicans left in the party can reign in the nut jobs that seem to have so much influence today. If not their party will be lost.

There's only one thing worse than having a system that has only two dominant political parties and that would be only having one.

That is a good thought and I want to make a couple of more points.

The media is in a tough spot. Historically political positions have some element of plausibility and nuance, that can be discussed and evaluated, you can take a conservative or liberal position, it does not matter. A good example would be trickle down economics.

With Trump, he was most often factually wrong (a lie). When media would point out that he was wrong (a lie), media became the enemy. Fake News as Trump would cry out at every media event.

Reuters and AP have generally stayed away from opinion, and are known for playing it straight. Before Trump, the concept of the media using the word lie was reserved for all but the most egregious statements or positions. But in response to Trump and his many lies, they have also stated and fact-checked the false statements that have resulted in the liberal bias claims. Unfortunate, but they have a job to do, and that should not discount their presence as being reporters of news.

I will be curious to see how right wing media responds to a Biden administration. Right wing media pretty much towed the Trump line with only isolated exceptions.

Just remember, we were all told that this COVID thing was a hoax and would disappear after the election. That proved to be factually a lie as well.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the Media. I think Fox will have its traditional takes that criticize Biden within the bounds of traditional conservativism, which is fine, but it will also have the mega-hyperbole of people like Hannity and Carlson. It almost feels like Fox is a microcosm of what's happening with the Republican party. It's divided between traditional conservatives and Trumpians.

The newer, fringe right-wing media will I'm sure continue to take extreme stances. I wouldn't be surprised to see Trump actually joint their ranks. They could fizzle out, merge, or grow in strength individually. I honestly have no idea what the footprint of these networks will be in 2024.

It's a play straight out of any Good Dictator's play book. Alienate the media and call everything they say a lie - diminish any chance your supporters will pay heed to what they say. That way, when they catch you red handed in a traitorous act, you just call it Fake News and carry on as normal. It's exactly what Trump has done.

This is 100% why #factsdontmatter to the Cult of Trump.

Happened to be watching the GA elections on 538

https://fivethirtyeight.com/live-blog/georgia-senate-election-results/

It's also covering Trumps speech and the certification ....

Talking about the media and Trump lies about the stolen election - one comment 12:40

"If you’re wondering why these debunked claims persist, even after being repeatedly fact-checked, this is why: Many of Trump’s supporters trust him and only him. Trump continues to repeat these claims, so they continue to believe them."

I think it's time to stop being so kind -- Trump is lying. Continuing debunked claims = lie.

Objection toward counting the votes from Arizona just went through to the applause of some reps and senators. I knew it was coming, but goodness, it's still sickening.

Oh it will certainly be a dog and pony show. That's life in Trumplandia.

Ugh, and for the record, it sickened me when it happened in 2005, with Ohio, but Kerry at least had the dignity to distance himself from that garbage.

I'm listening to Scalise right now. Are they going to repeat the same speech for every state in question?

First it's a dog, then there's a pony. Rinse and repeat.

McConnell is speaking now. He is dismantling Trump. This is crazy to see.

In what way ... is he validating the election process and spelling out how Trump's claims are a crock of horse manure?

Found on 538:

""McConnell opens his speech by noting that while he supported Trump’s right to pursue his allegations in the legal system, basically all of those cases failed in the courts — including in front of multiple Republican-appointed judges. “Nothing before us proves illegality anywhere the massive scale that would have tipped the entire election,” he said.""

""“This election was actually not unusually close,” McConnell said. For once, he doesn’t seem to be pulling his punches.""

""McConnell is essentially making a speech arguing that America should be a democratic republic. And that position is dividing his party ""

Schumer is speaking now and saying the same things along the lines of McConnell, except McConnell did get in a jab at how Democrats were the ones who used this tactic originally in 2000 and now the Republicans have to show that they're above it.

Overall, though, I thought McConnell made the point better than Schumer did.

To answer your question, he said:

1. The election wasn't even especially close
2. "If this election were overturned by mere allegations from the losing side, our democracy would enter a death spiral. We'd never see the whole nation accept an election again."

He still felt the need to do it in a way to kiss Republican ass, but at least he did it.

I hated Ted Cruz when I fell more in line with the Republican party, and he is confirming my rationale for that hatred right now.

Does Teddy not realize this has been through the court system already...over 60 times?

I hope everyone on here who endorses this “objection” realizes they endorse rhetoric that directly that comes from a cult that believes satanic pedophiles who eat children run this country.

Oh he realizes it. He's nothing more than a designated echo chamber for Trump at this point.

It's amazing how much someone will do for you when you say their wife is ugly and your dad helped assassinate JFK.

What you may wish to keep in mind is that his target audience has no idea his talking points have been turned down in courts 60 times. They don't report that on the channels they watch.

The definition of a boot licker helps explain a lot. This is from the urban dictionary.....

Boot Licker
Someone who kisses up to their oppressors’ thoughts and feelings rather than being aware of their own communities’ needs to survive. Hypothetically licking your oppressors boot for basic human respect from them.

Person A: why has joe all of a sudden been defending actual nazis? isnt he jewish?

Person B: o yea, hes a boot licker now; hes claiming its because they have freedom of speech while being blissfully unaware of the reprecutions that happened from the publication of mein kamph

I hope that helps.

j/c

Watching now. Trump demonstrators breaching Capital steps now.

I'm sure he'll send out a tweet asking for peacefulness and order...

He is the one who spoke to them earlier in order to rile them up. They went straight from his morning rally to the Capital. It's creating chaos on the senate floor.

And now we know why this thread was posted. A lot of us saw this coming. They cleared Pence from the senate floor.

So they tear gas and clear out peaceful protestors this summer in-front of a church for a photo op, but you have people knocking down barricades towards Capitol Hill and you just yell at them??

This is horrendous. I can't believe this. Any response from Trump supporters on this? Any justification? I'm not trying to call people out, but I have no idea, objectively, how you can support this man after what we're seeing here.

If you look at history and don't see this as a textbook dictatorship-style power play, I don't know what to tell you. I really don't.

I try to consider myself pretty objective. I am flawed in that regard like most, but I have railed against both sides throughout these threads, and spoke against flawed logic.

I am dumbfounded.

100% truth.

100% fact.

Trump is a despicable piece of human crap. He's unAmerican and the people that fall for his schtick are morons.

Nutshell.

I think we only need to look at who is running the federal government to understand why they weren't better prepared to stop this. This all could have been prevented.

Anyone who can't see this as a coup attempt, no matter how poorly planned or poorly executed, simply wish not to see it.

Some senators are even under their desks now. This was allowed to happen by those in charge of securing the capital. And we know who they support.

I've been telling liberals to arm themselves. It wasn't a joke and it wasn't without merit. We are now officially a third world country.

It's official. The senate is being evacuated.

At least I'm not seeing them armed with weapons at the ready... But it looks like a couple hundred thousand of them have completely surrounded and breached the capitol building. Crazy. It's a powder keg.

Where’s the storm troopers?

I think you're overestimating the crowd size but that doesn't make the situation any better.

Cops or Jackbooted thugs? Cops are woefully outnumbered and visibly doing little to stop them.

j/c

Senate evacuated, VP Pence ushered to secure location after pro-Trump protesters storm Capitol

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-...sm_npd_nn_fb_ma

A curfew has been announced for Washington D.C. beginning at 6:00 P.M.

Glass has been broken to the gallery doors inside the Capital. Police have guns drawn.

Under trumps watch. Everything that happens from here on out is 100% on trump.