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OP
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I can back up my figures with this link: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/salaries?team=bos I keep hearing how steroids, hgh, corked bats, etc. have given players an unfair advantage in Baseball. I wonder why the difference in payroll has not been scrutinized as giving certain teams advantages over other teams. Let's use this years ALCS as an example. The Indians are NOT playing the Boston Red Sox. Rather, they are playing 3 Boston Red Sox + a bunch of all stars that have been brought in to help. Manny-bought, Ortiz-bought, Lowell-Bought, Drew-bought, Lugo-Bought Josh Beckett-bought, Curt Schilling-bought, Dice K-bought. -These are just a few notable examples. To sum it up, the Red Sox get to use $143,123,714 to build a team while the Cleveland Indians get $61,289,667. -To me, that's biggest violation of a game's integrity that I can think of. How is it fair to have 3 homegrown players in your lineup and then complement them with a team of proven all stars? There is absolutely no integrity to the Boston Red Sox.
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Dawg Talker
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What's funny is when the Sox fans complain about how much the Yankees spend... They're the pot calling the kettle black.
And props to the Rockies to getting as far as they did, #25 on the list.
I want the Cleveland Browns to be my pallbearers so they can let me down for the last time.
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Hall of Famer
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OP
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I don't know why anybody gives Theo Epstein, or the Boston Red Sox credit for anything. Anybody can go out and buy a championship. The fact that such disparity amongst payrolls is allowed is comical. How can any team be expected to beat the Yankees, or the Red Sox in any postseason? Furthermore, how can any team be expected to beat both the Yankees and the Red Sox in the SAME postseason? Absolutely comical.
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1st String
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1st String
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Yet, somehow, we have a chance to finish the job TONIGHT! 
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Dawg Talker
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There was an article in the Washington Post this week, largely about the Indians, but lesser so the Rocks and D-Backs as well. It was talking about spending and how teams like the Indians and Rockies have given other teams a blueprint to follow to build their systems up. It said, its specifically good news for teams like the Orioles, Blue Jays and Devil Rays in giving them hope of knocking down the Yanks and Sawx. Its not good news to those teams. Sure, it gives them some hope. However, the Orioles and Blue Jays are already spending nearly $100 million a piece and aren't sniffing the playoffs. Sure, part of that is irresponsible spending, but a larger issue is that when one of those teams competes the Yanks/Sawx go out and buy more talent at the trade deadline. I'm fine with baseball not having a hard cap, a soft cap would suffice, but the fact that the cap right now sits at $148 million. Only the Yanks had to pay anything on it, and the Red Sox came close at $143. You want to make it worthwhile, put it at like $90 million where 12 teams would be over it. Instead, its going to keep going up. By 2011, the luxury tax will be at $180 million. A lot of teams are going to be spending over that, right?
Baseball had the right idea in a luxury tax, they just need to make it a tax that actually means something and evens the field more. They did much better on this last contract in local revenue sharing, but still didn't even get that correct entirely.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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Hall of Famer
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OP
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Money aside, from a fan's perspective. This is getting to the point where it's not legitimate anymore. Like I said, the Indians aren't playing the Boston Red Sox, they are playing 3 Red Sox players who are being helped out by a bunch of all stars. Why even bother playing if both teams don't have to adhere to the same rules regarding spending.
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Money aside, from a fan's perspective. This is getting to the point where it's not legitimate anymore. Like I said, the Indians aren't playing the Boston Red Sox, they are playing 3 Red Sox players who are being helped out by a bunch of all stars. Why even bother playing if both teams don't have to adhere to the same rules regarding spending.
And it's also like playing the media as well. Guys being propped up to be more than they are...psychologically it can be intimidating no matter how iron-willed you are.
Think about it...you're constantly being told you're not good enough...that can take it's toll.
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Legend
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Legend
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Couldn't agree more.
Posted this before, but worth repeating,..."neighbor" hasn't spoken with/to me since April when I lambasted the Yankees for not "spreading the wealth." Called me a "communist" for suggesting that without small market teams there wouldn't even be any competition. He says it's plain OK for the Yankess to spend like heathens and make money with the downfall of the betrodden Minnesota's, KC's, Marlins of the world.
A salary cap would at least go a long way to allowing ALL of baseball to be competitive.
I'd take it a step further and have a salary chart for each position, factor in longevity, put EVERY stinking statisical category on a "bonus" program, like in the REAL world, and move all of the "big money" over to winning. No wins ? No playoffs ? NO MONEY.
Then we'd see some real baseball.
God Bless Joe Torre, but why do you pay 7 mil to FAIL ??
ARod's agent looking for 36/8 mil a year,...?? To do WHAT ?? Hit .180 in the playoffs,..?? In the REAL world these types of failures get you FIRED.
There shouldn't be a Red Sox player get half of his money if he doesn't perform tonite. Same goes for Hafner.
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Hall of Famer
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Butt Selig will come back at you and say, "but look at the Indians, Rockies, Diamond Backs, etc." In fact he did say it on Mike & Mike about 3 weeks ago. To him, this is a success story. He can't see the forest because of the trees.
What he doesn't see is the Yankees and Red Sox being in the playoffs practically every year and no other team from that division having a chance. We know that once in the playoffs anything can happen, but when they're in it every year, that elimintates 2 spots before the season starts.
Just thank the almighty we aren't in the AL East. We would never get a taste. The Central and West will just keep churning out nice teams that become runner-ups and talent that will get raided by the empires when their contracts are up.
Baseball is broken. Until one of these teams go belly up (Minn. almost did a few years ago), MLB won't do anything about it.
"My signature line goes here."
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Dawg Talker
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I don't know why anybody gives Theo Epstein, or the Boston Red Sox credit for anything. Anybody can go out and buy a championship.
It's not surprising you don't understand why anyone would give Theo Epstein credit for what he's done with the Sox. There seems to be a lot that escapes your limited capability to comprehend. 
...always have been, always will be...
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Dawg Talker
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Not to lessen your point, but Beckett and Lowell were acquired from the Marlins for Hanley Ramirez, Anibal Sanchez (both homegrown players) along with a handful of prospects. Curt Schilling was acquired in a trade from Arizona for four players (the key being Casey Fossum, who was also homegrown). Just because players didn't originate with their teams doesn't mean they were bought. Heck, look at the top of our lineup... we got Grady from the Expos, Cabrera from the Mariners and Pronk from the Rangers.
That said, I absolutely agree that there needs to be a cap in baseball. The fact that certain teams have an advantage over others because they generate more revenue and thus can pump more money back in is absolutely absurd. The luxury tax isn't enough to keep payrolls from spiralling out of control; MLB needs a cap.
We're... we're good?
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
Not to lessen your point, but Beckett and Lowell were acquired from the Marlins for Hanley Ramirez, Anibal Sanchez (both homegrown players) along with a handful of prospects. Curt Schilling was acquired in a trade from Arizona for four players (the key being Casey Fossum, who was also homegrown). Just because players didn't originate with their teams doesn't mean they were bought. Heck, look at the top of our lineup... we got Grady from the Expos, Cabrera from the Mariners and Pronk from the Rangers.
Wow, someone who actually looks at the whole picture! I'm shocked.
I just can't see a salary cap coming about in any way that didn't involve a complete restructuring of Major League Baseball as we know it. Not that that would be a bad thing...
...always have been, always will be...
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Not to lessen your point, but Beckett and Lowell were acquired from the Marlins for Hanley Ramirez, Anibal Sanchez (both homegrown players) along with a handful of prospects. Curt Schilling was acquired in a trade from Arizona for four players (the key being Casey Fossum, who was also homegrown). Just because players didn't originate with their teams doesn't mean they were bought. Heck, look at the top of our lineup... we got Grady from the Expos, Cabrera from the Mariners and Pronk from the Rangers.
I understand your point and it has some validity... it's not all that common for a guy to become a star in the same organization where he started... but what you discribed IS part of the problem... the big money organizations using a couple prospects and trading them for high dollar proven players because the small market team would rather get SOMETHING when a star leaves rather than just let him become a FA and walk for nothing... which is what takes the stars from small market teams and replaces them with prospects, thus keeping small market teams in a constant rebuilding mode just HOPING that 3 or 4 of their prospects become stars and they can win something before their market value goes up to the point where a couple of them have to be traded or let go... fortunately the Indians have been better at it than most other teams....
I have had this argument with Yankee fans in the past who pointed to Jeter and Bernie Williams and Posada and some others who were "nobodys" when they started with the Yankees to prove the point that they don't "buy teams"... But the point is, every team brings along young talent like that... small market teams just get to a point where they have to decide which ones they can afford to keep, where as the Yankees and Red Sox not only keep their homegrown talent, then they go add Becket, ARod, Manny, Giambi, Mussina, Papelbon etc....
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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Legend
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To expand on this, when a smaller market team makes mistakes in judging talent, it takes years to recover. To the Yankees and Sox it's just a very small bump in the road. They can afford to take expensive risks with high upside potential without throwing the entire system into the crapper.
The best example of this is when Detroit put a big chunk of their resources into Juan Gonzales. It took them more than a few years to make up for that blunder.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Practice Squad
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Practice Squad
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This is a really good point.
Also, I hate that Cleveland can develop a player into a star, but when the time comes for that next contract, the only part in the negotiations the Indians have is to help bid up the price the Yankees and Red Sox will wind up paying (see Manny, Thome, and next year: Sabathia).
I would rather see them go to structured contracts throughout the league with incentives, so the good players get their due, but let's go back to no free-agency. Players are acquired through drafts and trades. Pipe dream, I know, but I hate getting attached to a player and then they take off because we can't afford to keep them.
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Hall of Famer
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Add Albert Belle to the list....
I could go into lates 70' and the 80's and start knocking some off too (ie Dennis Eckersley and Greg Nettles just to name two). We were also regarded as "a farm team of the NY Yankees" for the longest time.
"My signature line goes here."
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Hall of Famer
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OP
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I appreciate the reply. You make a good point, but, don't forget about the contracts that are assumed when a team trades prospects for proven players. In the case of Mike Lowell, and Josh Beckett, the Red Sox recieved a skilled position player in his prime, and a World Series MVP in his prime, in exchange for prospects. The reason why teams such as the Indians cannot make such blockbuster trades is because the contracts that are assumed when bringing in proven talent.
Like I said earlier, home grown players comprise the periphery of the Boston Red Sox, while All Stars from other teams comprise the core.
When the core of a team is made up of All Stars from other teams, what does that mean?
It's subjective, but, to me, it means that teams like the Red Sox don't respect the integrity of Major League Baseball, and act in a manner which disregards the fairness of the sport. -The fact that such radical behavior, and spending is allowed leads me to believe that there is a problem with the legitimacy of the sport.
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Legend
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Legend
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23. Cleveland 61,289,667 24. San Diego 58,235,567 25. Colorado 54,424,000 26. Arizona 52,067,546 4 Really good teams thats crazy but its a good slap to the face of the Yankees.  The yankees and socks would be screwed if their was a salary cap.
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Legend
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Legend
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And the "luxury tax" isn't working either. Teams with all the money just go ahead and pay it.
Having the Sox and the Yanks always good has some historical value to it,...it's good for baseball for them to be competitive.
But,...just imagine how much more competitive ALL of baseball could be, were it played on a level field.
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
And the "luxury tax" isn't working either. Teams with all the money just go ahead and pay it..
Only one team is over the luxury tax and one other team is even approaching it. The bigger issue is that the luxury tax is set so high. It hasn't had a chance to work yet, no way to know if it actually will.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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Legend
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Legend
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Thanks, I was not aware of that. So, if it still needs a chance, and the limit is too high, then by default, it still isn't working,... 
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Quote:
And the "luxury tax" isn't working either. Teams with all the money just go ahead and pay it..
Only one team is over the luxury tax and one other team is even approaching it. The bigger issue is that the luxury tax is set so high. It hasn't had a chance to work yet, no way to know if it actually will.
That's the thing, unless it's adjusted it never will. There's only 3 teams that can even think about approaching it. NYY, NYM and Boston Red Sox. While teams like LAA and Chicago have high payrols (100 mil), they're really starting to push their threshold. The only ones that essentially have a blank check are the Mets, Red Sox and Yankees.
I guess the flip side of this is think about Cleveland. We won 96 games with a payroll of 60 million. Let's say they could just spend 100 million, not even double their payroll. Can you even imagine being able to add lets say A-rod, Tori Hunter and Mike Lowell all in one off-season?  Seriously, give me a freakin break!!!!!!!! Some of these Sox fans are trying to say there's no advantage? ROTFLMAO. Honestly, think about what you're saying for a second. Cause if you truly believe that, you're retarded.
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum No salary cap = No integrity
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