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Oh, I didn't realize being upset about the outcome was being surly. Whatever. 
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Quote:
Is that what you said after The Drive?
I cant repeat what was said after the drive....Ever....When I pass away, God is gonna have a big cue card with the things I said on it and I'm sure he's gonna have a nice talk with me 
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We have no advantage over any other team, other teams have the option to spend as much money as we do, they just don't.
One thing illustrates how ignorant this statement is. If baseball had a level economic playing field, Manny Ramierez would've been starting in left field for the Indians this series. Not the Bosotn Red Sox. It's not that the Indians chose not to stay in a bidding war with Boston and end up paying Manny 25 million a year. It's that they literally could not have afforded it. Not without making huge sacrafices elsewhere in their payroll and committing 40-50 percent of their payroll to one man.
Boston and New York certainly have an advantage over every other team in the Major Leagues. It's not that teams don't choose to spend as much, it's that they can't spend as much as Boston and New York. I'm not saying it's all their fault, but to say that it's not an advantage is wrong. And it's not even the signing of high priced free agents that really gives those 2 teams an edge. It's the ability to keep practically all of your homegrown talent, and the ability to make a mistake on an evaluation of a player and not have it cripple your team.
The Red Sox are the Yankees at this point. Whether or not Boston wants to face that fact is up to them.
Time and change will surely show
How firm thy friendship
O - HI - O
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It's like Wedge said - we won 3 in a row and they won 3 in a row.
The numbers are the same, we were just closer initially to closing the deal.
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Quote:
Quote:
We have no advantage over any other team, other teams have the option to spend as much money as we do, they just don't.
One thing illustrates how ignorant this statement is. If baseball had a level economic playing field, Manny Ramierez would've been starting in left field for the Indians this series. Not the Bosotn Red Sox. It's not that the Indians chose not to stay in a bidding war with Boston and end up paying Manny 25 million a year. It's that they literally could not have afforded it. Not without making huge sacrafices elsewhere in their payroll and committing 40-50 percent of their payroll to one man.
Boston and New York certainly have an advantage over every other team in the Major Leagues. It's not that teams don't choose to spend as much, it's that they can't spend as much as Boston and New York. I'm not saying it's all their fault, but to say that it's not an advantage is wrong. And it's not even the signing of high priced free agents that really gives those 2 teams an edge. It's the ability to keep practically all of your homegrown talent, and the ability to make a mistake on an evaluation of a player and not have it cripple your team.
The Red Sox are the Yankees at this point. Whether or not Boston wants to face that fact is up to them.
Whether you want to face it or not, the Sox are in the same division with the Yankees and have limited options, spend or lose. The Indians can still win in their division despite a smaller payroll because the other teams aren't spending out their ears. The Yankees are and they dominated the division, and to an extent baseball, until the Sox opened their wallets.
Call them what you will but I'd rather the team do what they can then watch the Yankees take it all the time.
...always have been, always will be...
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Oh, I didn't realize being upset about the outcome was being surly. Whatever.
'
OK, you said heartbroken. Either way, I still think it's better people look to the positive. Whatever. 
...always have been, always will be...
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That's easy to say coming from a fan of a team who bought their way to a world series win recently and may be on their way to doing it again. 
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I am heartbroken, but there is always a brightside, and I chose to dwell in the positive rather than the negative.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Whether you want to face it or not, the Sox are in the same division with the Yankees and have limited options, spend or lose. The Indians can still win in their division despite a smaller payroll because the other teams aren't spending out their ears.
Hey someone's got to win the other divisions by default, right?
What does Tampa have to look forward to? Baltimore was only competive for as long as Camden Yards was newer. When the Yankees open their new crib, it will be adding another 50 million to their revenue according to Forbes Magazine. That's another Tampa Bay payroll they can toss at two players.
Its a bad system and MLB is the last of the majors to figure it out.
Even MLB wild card is a bad system. How convenient NY and Boston can never play each other in the first round the way the rules are set. Gotta make that TV revenue. 
"My signature line goes here."
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All Pro
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Quote:
Quote:
Is that what you said after The Drive?
I cant repeat what was said after the drive....Ever....When I pass away, God is gonna have a big cue card with the things I said on it and I'm sure he's gonna have a nice talk with me
I'm sure you're probably going to hell so I wouldn't worry about it 
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Legend
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Just wait till he gets there and a cat is sitting on Gods lap 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Even though I'm a Reds fan, congrats to the Indians on a great season! 
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I want the Cleveland Browns to be my pallbearers so they can let me down for the last time.
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It was dissapointing, i wanted to face the indians in the world series. I hate the red sox because they just buy every good player. Hopefully you guys can have a good offseason and be right back in the playoffs and maybe face my rockies again in the series.
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We have C.C. for one more year I hope we can make the best of it.
Well if he continues to show the opposing team the ball like he did throughout the playoffs then he won't amount to much next year.
Did anyone else even notice that? I mean seriously, the guy's wind up was extremely slow and his arm stuck way out behind him and hesitated and then he threw the ball. I can't believe none of the coaches got on him about that. These are professionals and it only takes them a split second to see how your finger placement is on the ball and they know every thing you are throwing at them. C.C would leave that ball way out there behind his back for at-least 2 seconds to where a blind batter could see what he is going to throw at you.
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After sleeping on it, I'm still incredibly disappointed but in the long run, this could really be good for our young players. A little off-season motivation never hurt anyone.
We have a TON of young players on this team and also waiting in the wings. If we plug a few smallish holes, we could be pretty scary.
1.) If Fausto and C.C. can pitch like they did this season and we get a young player like Laffey or Miller to push Westbrook for the #3 spot and become a legit #4 we could very well have the best starting rotation in baseball.
2.) I doubt Hafner struggles again like he did this season and I also expect Grady to be better. Gute should benefit the most after getting to take over full-time, I really am expecting him to break out next season. I wouldn't mind seeing Lofton come back as a utility outfielder but think he'll probably be gone.
3.) We need another reliable RBI option. Wether that's a young player (like Gute) coming in to his own or a mid level free agent, who knows but we need to explore options.
4.) Jhonny HAS to go to 3rd base, he is just killing us at SS with his range. Ideally Barfield would snap out of it and we'd slide Sdrubs' to SS, Peralta to 3rd and Josh would settle in to 2B.
5.) We need another arm in the bullpen and i would love it to be a sidearm/submariner. Something to give a team a different look.
6.) Rafael Perez needs to add a 3rd pitch he can consistently throw for strikes. Good hitters figured him out in the postseason.
I'm sure there are more things others will or have added but those were just some random thoughts.
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j/c, but I have read most of the thread.
Was really hoping not to be posting in this fashion at all. Sometimes things don't go your way. I have no problem with that. At 53 though, I am running out of time.
Anyhow, truly a disappointment after taking out the Yankees.
Two of the top 5 aces in the American League,...what a failure. Glass Half Full Awards though for Jake and Byrdie. They did their jobs. And while it looks like it can be called a complete meltdown by the players -- pressure, experience, confidence -- whatever, I am particularly most depressed by the some of worst coaching decisions in the history of baseball.
I am not calling for anyone's head. I think the Tribe needs to do everything in its power to keep everyone they now have, both players and managers.
And then, make 'em do it The Right Way,...!!
Skinner's decision to halt Lofton at the game's most critical turning point only compounded what happened later. What is the worst that could happen, sending the speedy Lofton home to either tie the game, OR be the second out with a runner at second ?? As it turned out, Wedge -- it appears --decided to go for the big Blake hit anyway.
So, because Wedge is afraid to play small-ball, they needed a big hit by Blake, period.
The replay clearly shows Manny was no where even near getting the ball yet in order to set himself for a throw, as Lofton hit the bag,...Skinner misjudged this terribly. Manny has a reasonably good arm, but he is terribly inaccurate. It was a chance worth taking, tie ball game, Game 7, momentum, etc. etc.
Wedge pulled Jake an innning too early. He had found his groove. The Tribe had climbed back to 3-2. I think it was a mistake to go to Betancourt yet,...the score proves I am not far off base on that one.
Back to Lofton at 3, Gutz at first. Blake at the plate. We've already made the running/scoring misjudgement. Let's compound it some more by putting Casey in a bad situation. Let's let him hit into a double play -- the ONLY possible outcome that can get Boston off the hook -- by allowing Blake to swing WITHOUT even attempting to send Gutz on a steal, without even attempting to take a pitch from the sometimes errant and rattled Matzusaka, (PB, WP), NO attempt at all to lay down a bunt, let alone steal home or suicide squeeze.
Sorry, that was long and rambly, but I'm done.
As poorly as these kids choked under the pressure, THEY WENT TO THE 7th INNING WITHIN A STRIKE OF DEFLATING the Red Sox.
The coaches tried to out-think the game, and it cost them.
No one has pointed a finger at Wedge/Skinner. I point it squarely at them, and the only thing that gets them off the hook would be some explanation that Casey missed a sign.
He should NEVER have been allowed to swing away at that first pitch. That was the ball game.
Just my opinion.
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Quote:
I am heartbroken, but there is always a brightside, and I chose to dwell in the positive rather than the negative.
I'm sorry, but I fail to see a bright side....yinz can talk all you want about how it was a great season, and "we'll get 'em next year" and all that jazz, but the facts are your squad has not won a WS since 1948. Your squad had a 3-1 game series lead and blew it. (albeit against a team that bought their way there)
Baseball sucks ass, it has sucked ass for quite a few years now, and this just further illustrates why it sucks ass and why it will continue to do so unless the rules are changed.
I hope the Rockies pound the Red Sox into total submission in 4 games so the precious MLB can't get revenue from it going any further than it has to. I'm tired of hearing about the Patriots, and I'm equally tired of the bandwagon people walking around wearing Sox hats.....screw 'em all.
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Amen im tired of the sorry ass attitude of thinking: "oh well at least we tried." Thats not good enough in sports or in life! I hope the players realize and some of the fans as well. We should expect to win instead of expecting to compete. 
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I'm sorry, but I fail to see a bright side....
Trying opening your eyes then  We have all of our core players coming back, and we don't need to fill many holes. Our payroll is still in good enough shape that we can add a few key players that might help out. We still have lots of young talent that will improve not only playing now, but also coming up thru the system.
There is a bright side Shep, just move the trees out of the way and look at the forrest.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Wedge pulled Jake an innning too early. He had found his groove. The Tribe had climbed back to 3-2. I think it was a mistake to go to Betancourt yet,...the score proves I am not far off base on that one.
I think there's a lot of second guessing to be done but removing Westbrook to put in Betancourt is a no-brainer IMO.
Betancourt was our BEST and most CONSISTENT pitcher the entire year. Throughout the playoffs he got the biggest outs against the biggest hitters. If it weren't for him, we wouldn't be here. It would be like questioning Francona as to why he would pitch Josh Beckett in a critical situation. Why? Because Raffy was money the entire year.
Did it work? No, it obviously did not but if we had to do it 100 more times, I'm giving the ball to Betancourt EVERY single time from the 7th inning on. The reason Borowski had so many saves was because Betancourt (along with Perez) consistently nailed down the middle innings and handed Joe multi-run leads.
Sometimes relievers just don't have it, that's how the bullpen works for every team. Even Rivera had them in his prime. It's just unfortunate Raffy's off-night had to be in game 7.....but if you let me make that decision in any critical game, I'm going with Betancourt every single time. He's been our horse all season. When you have a chance to ride him, especially in a 1 run game you saddle up and deal with the consequences.
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Didn't come back to argue,...in either "guess" i.e. leave Westy in, or go for broke with Raffy, I would have been OK had the score been tied. THAT didn't get done, and I think it put even more pressure on Betancourt.
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Didn't come back to argue,...in either "guess" i.e. leave Westy in, or go for broke with Raffy, I would have been OK had the score been tied. THAT didn't get done, and I think it put even more pressure on Betancourt.
No, I understand and I'm not trying to argue either. I just think it's hard to question taking out your starter to bring in your best pitcher. We may have made a few mistakes or had a few calls go against us but I think going to Betancourt was the best choice given it was game 7. Had we done it for Lewis, Perez or Borowski I could understand being upset but next to Beckett, Raffy was the most dominant pitcher in the postseason. In game 7, you live and die with your best.
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j/c
Yeah, today totally sucked. Watching the Indians meltdown over the weekend. Then I had to go to work today and put up with all the Rockies fans.
I agree with Shep, there is no brightside to this. We were up 3-1 and blew it. Cleveland always does. Sure things may look good going into next season, but how does anyone know we won't choke again? Cleveland always chokes.
I'm almost half ooorah's age and I wonder if I'll see a Cleveland championship in my life.
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Detroit wouldn't let us choke the season away? Wow.
All the Indians did this year was finish with the best record in all of baseball, win a division title, have a couple more young, core players emerge, topple the mighty Yankees in the first round, and take one of the two best teams in the game to 7 games in the ALCS. It hurts like hell but it was a good season. Not a perfect season but a good season.
The Indians are a good young team, but when push came to shove they choked like a porn star. What else can you call when you are 3 games 1 with your 2 best pitchers coming up. If your the Indians you give up 30 runs and score 5.
I just heard Bruce Drennen say anybody that thinks the Indians choked is an idiot. If what we just witnessed wasn't a bigtime choke I'd like to know what is considered a choke here in Dreamland.
I know they are young and let me be the 1st to say"wait till next year" then look out KC and Tampa Bay.
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but when push came to shove they choked like a porn star.
Porn stars don't choke 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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i have a few thoughts on the series...
sure bruce drennan is going to say they didn't choke, but they did... just like they did in 2005, crap happens, we'll get over it, i mean, we are from cleveland...
travis hafner has been a dissapointment all year, but i think he's going to come back with a vengeance next year, and that's a good thing...
if there was an mvp of the playoffs for us, it was rafael betancourt, forget what happened last night, this may not have been much of a series without raffy...
the broadcast team of joe buck and tim mccarver actually wasn't that bad... just from watching them in previous years, it was quite good when you comapare their past broadcasts... they were great compared to chip caray and his obvious bias towards the yankees in the ALDS
i point a lot of the boston turnaround to dustin pedroia, this guy went from being an automatic out to being more dangerous at the plate than david ortiz, he's a hell of ballplayer...
and i've thought about this all day, i haven't been a huge wedge fan or hater, i've been on the fence with him, at times i did think he was holding us back...
but, in these playoffs, i thought he did a great job, i thought he pushed all the right buttons, by starting byrd when everyone was saying start cc, by sticking with his guns, by letting raffy close the 9th on tuesday
we had a 3-1 series lead, with 2 cy young candidates in line to pitch the next 2 games, and we got jack squat from both of them, and one of those games was at home...
that's not wedge's fault...
hopefully this team can bounce back next year...
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When does spring training start, I'm pumped for 2008 already
98 days, give or take. Mrs Dave and I will be heading down for the last time to Winter Haven, after going down 13 out of the last 15 years. We're calling for hotel reservations this week and will be online for game tickets as soon as they're for sale. I'm gonna miss Winter Haven and Spring Training ... don't think I'll be making the drive out to Arizona.
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we had a 3-1 series lead, with 2 cy young candidates in line to pitch the next 2 games, and we got jack squat from both of them, and one of those games was at home...
that's not wedge's fault...
AMEN!
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Wait... They'll be in Winter Haven for this Spring Training? YES!!!  You made my night.
I want the Cleveland Browns to be my pallbearers so they can let me down for the last time.
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
but when push came to shove they choked like a porn star.
Porn stars don't choke
When were you a porn star ??
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We have C.C. for one more year I hope we can make the best of it.
Yeah, Lets look at the bright side! Maybe with CC pitching the way he did in the playoffs we'll be able to sign him, OR Baston will sign him and we can beat his brains out in the playoffs. Is it true that CC stands for Collosal Choker?  I wish they'd quit calling him an ace already. I know what I'd like to call him...
I'm sorry I'm a bitter old man. My excuse is, rooting for a bunch of poor boy losers has made me this way. 
Watching CC stink in the playoffs and Manny hit rocket after rocket for a team I despise makes my blood boil. There ain't no stinkin bright side.  Go Rockies! 
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Guess what I got in the mail today? My World Series tickets Wound meet salt  AHHHH DAMN IT!!!!!!!!
Our honor defend, we will fight to the end, for OHIO! GO BUCKS!
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 "Ohhh yesterday,,my troubles seemed so far away,,," 
Our honor defend, we will fight to the end, for OHIO! GO BUCKS!
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Keep them buddy.
I want the Cleveland Browns to be my pallbearers so they can let me down for the last time.
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Had we gone to the series we would have won before game 6, so you still would not get to use it anyway.
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lol. My luck we would have gotten swept
Our honor defend, we will fight to the end, for OHIO! GO BUCKS!
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I'm just as disappointed in the results from the ALCS, but thanks Tribe for the great run. Here is our roster for next year:
1B Ryan Garko
2B Josh Barfield
SS Asdrubal Cabrera
3B Jhonny Peralta
LF Ben Francisco
CF Grady Sizemore
RF Franklin Gutierrez
C Victor Martinez
DH Travis Hafner
Bench
Casey Blake
Kelly Shoppach
David Delucci (2 yrs left on contract)
Jason Michaels (1 yr left on contract)
IF AAA or Trade (I'd love John McDonald)
Rotation
CC Sabathia
Fausto Carmona
Jake Westbrook
Paul Byrd
Aaron Laffey, Cliff Lee, Jeremy Sowers, Adam Miller, or Chuck Lofgren
Bullpen
Juan Lara (takes Fultz spot)
Tom Mastny
Jensen Lewis
Rafael Perez
Rafael Betancourt
CL (I would love Mariano Rivera on a 2 yr deal)
This roster puts the Tribe at the 25 man roster! IMO we only have 2 or 3 open spots. IF, CL, and bullpen picher. No way we sign AROD to 30+ million.
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"where it's more privy to BUY a championship team than BUILD one. "
The NY Yankees have been buying players and Championships since the 1920s. Babe Ruth, Roger Maris, Roger Clemens,Catfish Hunter,Alex Rodriguez, Reggie Jackson...but you win on the field .
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
98 days, give or take
Doh! Calendar counting has never been a strong point ... actually its about 126 days 'til first 2008 Spring Training game.
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