DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Biden calls to raise the federal minimum wage to $15 per hour

This will help the economy and the federal reserve more than anything else.

The federal minimum wage is poised to get its first update in more than a decade.

President-elect Joe Biden on Thursday said he will ask Congress to boost the federal minimum wage to $15 per hour from the current $7.25 per hour. The federal minimum wage has not been increased since 2009.


https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/14/biden-calls-to-raise-the-federal-minimum-wage-to-15-per-hour.html

BOOOO

This is good maybe for large cities, but it will have a very negative effect of small towns and rural area's.

Ok Boomer.

I got your boomer right here

Seriously this will help everyone including the overall economy and strengthen the fed in the process. Most states have a higher than the fed guidelines now in minimum wage and small towns and rural area’s aren’t hurting because of the minimum wage issue at all, as a matter of fact this actually helps small communities to thrive and to keep the kids from going to the big cities to work for more $. It’s past due to get this done. Jump aboard or stay in boomer land. Your choice.

This comment seems -- extremely non-constructive...

It's pretty clear that:

1.) Minimum wage now is too low -- it is much lower (accounting for inflation) than nearly any time since the 1960s.

2.) There are a lot of benefits to employees when minimum wage is increased -- and the claim that it will destroy the economy is overstated. States like Arizona/Colorado/Maine/Oregon have minimum wages over $12, indicating that significantly higher wages (even is rural areas of large states) do not destroy the economy.

3.) There is some level at which the minimum wage is too high -- and the effect on jobs starts to outweigh the benefits for individual employees.

4.) I don't know what that value is.

5.) In a sensible society, we would have a debate between Republicans and Democrats about whether the right minimum wage increase is $11 or $17, or somewhere in the middle.

6.) Instead we are going to have a ridiculous argument over "If minimum wage is not increased every minimum wage employee will starve to death" vs. "If we increase minimum wage there will literally be 0 jobs left in America."

sigh...

#5. Correct, we don’t live in a sensible society. That would mean more than 35% of American’s have common sense and don’t support trump. That just isn’t so.

And if GM was arguing in bad faith -- then go for sarcasm...

But generally, he is one of the less bad-faith conservatives on this board...

Oh really???

Try telling a small business owner who makes 100K per year after all expenses they can afford to add $187,000 per year to his/her payroll.

Small business example.
Business has 20 employees 15 of which make 9 bucks and hour. Raise that to 15 bucks an hour and that's 240 dollars a week x52 weeks $12,480 per year times 15 employees = $187,200 per year.

I agree that it need raised from 7.25 per hour but to more than double it is just asinine IMO

I mean - you will raise prices, which will be offset by people having more money to pay for the higher prices of your goods.

You can't simply evaluate the "cost" side of the equation, without also including the effect on the "profit" side of the equation.

Nor, can proponents of minimum wage hikes assume that everybody makes more money without realizing that the costs of goods will also increase.

The question is whether it succeeds in its goal of distributing income from upper class and upper middle class Americans to poorer Americans -- which has a large societal benefit.

I agree. Even if the goal is ultimately $15 per hour (which seems high) ... it should be done in stages. No one jump should be more than 30%.

Of course, putting more money in the hands of rural americans, the ones that by and large voted overwhelmingly for Trump is a bad Idea!

Starve them out of existence I say

DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!

I think that literally nobody on this board has the expertise necessary to calculate what the best minimum wage is. It should be done by serious economists.

Here is a good review of literature on the topic:
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/11/20/20952151/should-minimum-wage-be-raised

An official report from the non-partisan congressional budget office:

https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2019-07/CBO-55410-MinimumWage2019.pdf

This summary from the CBO is important:

Well, obviously no one here does. Here's my issue: does anyone in Washington have the expertise to calculate the time span for this magic new number's arrival? That maybe more important than the number itself.

If you're going to tell everybody that has worked for decades to earn $20 per hour "you don't matter", you better give that some time to breath.

Next part of the equation... if this will be a long-term liberal march toward "a living wage for all"... just because they showed up to a menial job that day - this will be total failure for our country over time.

This is to say... there need to be age restrictions, there need to be experience rewards to level the playing field, there need to be adjustments for entry-level work - or those jobs will be eliminated.

The more work we put into building a model that will actually work, the more we will see that time can be our best friend... or biggest enemy.

JM2C

There are many expert economists who work for the Congressional Budget Office and other associated government offices. In fact, the USFG is the largest employer of economists in the world.



The CBO report discusses this in some detail - there is a knock on effect where people who currently have wages near the new minimum wage will see their wages increase, due to increased competition for their labor.



I don't see how giving more people a living wage will destroy our country.... but maybe it is important to you that some people suffer..



Jobs that are not useful will always be eliminated, minimum wage increase or not -- jobs that are important will not be eliminated, even when the minimum wage increases.

Their our border-cases -- but I think you are overstating how many jobs will disappear. (1.5M even for a $15 Minimum wage) -- by comparison, Covid was costing us 7M jobs/week in March/April.

I am no expert - but your stance and this comment seem to sum up a problem with taking an absolute position on this issue.... I guarantee you that for every 'expert' you refer to in the Congressional Budget Office or anywhere else - there is another Expert with a different view.

The debate isn't if the Min Wage should be raised from $7 and change ... it's whether it should be more than doubled.

I don't understand your point?

1.) Not all experts are equal.

2.) There are many ways to quantify good and bad -- and it is impossible to (generally) say whether $14 or $15 or $16 is the right number. Some industries/regions/people will be hurt more by each of these values, others will be helped by each of them.

3.) I think the best evidence points to $14-$16 being the best value.

4.) I agree that this increase probably can't happen overnight. But increasing wages by $1 every six months isn't necessarily too fast.

IMO $15 is way too high.

This is just another thinly-veiled tax on the middle-class, who will see the most negative consequences from this move through cost-of-living increases; not the millionaires/billionaires.

Awwe, look... panties in a bunch and we just started!

Your ilk makes it impossible to even talk.

Is it important to me that people suffer??

I'm talking about a real thing, you're talking hyperbole and taking the usual opportunity to shame and insult.

Should the extent of ambition in this country be "get a job". Should everyone that punches the clock at 7-11 be given all the things that took hard work, dedication and proper planning for the last five generations?

There will always be a lowest common denominator, playing all the way down to it hurts everybody. People that need help should be given help. People that need direction, need a system that will provide a map. No one needs a lifetime stamp for a free lunch just because they woke up with lungs.

Have a great day!

The current pos potus did more to ruin small business then this will ever do. And I don’t have to try and tell anyone anything. The people have spoken. And the people that need it the most will be making more money now. Win Win. We’re winning. I know Browns fans have issues with a winning concept but we’re making some progress now.

If we're talking about minimum wage - then we are talking about people who work?

Sorry but the minimum wage hasn’t been raised for 11 years and it was too low before then. Call it back pay for holding people hostage to slave wages for last 20 years. I know people that make $13 an hour that still need two jobs just to make ends meet. This raise will help but they’ll still need two jobs.

Nobody is arguing that the federal minimum wage should stay where it is.

But when you're talking a FEDERAL minimum wage, you're talking about the entire country as a whole. Mandating such a high wage, while probably appropriate for quite a few areas of the country with high cost of living, is also not appropriate for other areas with much lower costs of living.

IMO, the federal minimum wage should, by design, probably lag behind quite a few states' min wage. The fed min wage (should) acts as a floor for the lowest cost of living area in the country... when you calibrate to the higher CoL area you're going to really jack up those other areas.

j/c

I'm not going to weigh in on how high the minimum wage should be raised. But I do know it's certainly a considerable amount. The last time the federal minimum wage was increasesd was in July of 2009. The price of the very things you need to survive has increased a significant amount over the past almost 12 years. From rent to food.

It would not be hard to figure in the cost increase in those things you need to live to come up with a fair minimum wage increase. I've seen varied opinions on that but twelve dollars an hour seems to be the most common conclusion. I'm not an expert enough to know.

But here's what I'm against. I'm against having a sub class of Americans that can't pay rent and eat. I'm against people who work going steadily backwards because their wages are stagnated to the point that as time goes on, their wages mean their living conditions are getting increasingly worse.

I'm tired of people making excuses why that's okay. If you want a class of people living on slave wages, why did we end slavery to begin with? If you think someone who works 40 hours a week on America should only be able to rent a room and eat beans and hot dogs, what the hell is wrong with you?

I really don't have an expert answer, but I am sceptical this will really benefit those making that minimum.

So if you move the wage that high and the cost of living increases as a result, you're still making the minimum wage hence poor. So what?

If you're making 15 bucks now, like me, there isn't any reason to believe my wage will increase proportionally, so now, if the cost of living increases slightly, my disposable income drops slightly making me poorer.

If other folks wages increase proportionally alongside the minimum wage, all costs of living would increase and we are back to where we were when we started.

I wholeheartedly agree that wage is too low but a dollar goes a bit farther in Youngstown than it does New York or Seattle. I think the folks living in cities would benefit less from this.

The other thing is it's just the wage per hour. You may be working 30 hours now, 20 when it goes in effect.....so what did you gain?

I think the bigger issue is the lack of higher paying jobs to gravitate to. That's a problem that few in DC seem interested in.

Again, I am all for better wages but I don't think anyone really pushing this in Washington gives a rat . . . .what it does to the economy. They just want votes in the midterms

What about all the people making 15.00, will they get raises too, or do we just accept that those people will now be making "minimum wage"?

Unions are going to renegotiate for higher pay, because who would want to be in a union if your making 15.00 with or without them?

Many small businesses will have to cut employees to increase others, along with adding more responsibility to those remaining employees.

Is the guy waiting for the fries in the fryer to "ding"
, worth $15/hr? The guy passing out smiley stickers at Walmart.

I don't know what the answer is, but I believe just outright putting a static number out there is going to do more harm than good in the long run. Especially since cost of living is widely different in different parts of the country/states.

About 1/2 of the congressional budget report is about what will happen to people who are currently making slightly more than minimum wage.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner.

Just raising the minimum wage is lazy legislating and won't solve any problems. We need someone in Wahsington that is able to think outside the box and be creative.

I work as an engineer for a large, manufacturing company. They pay the workers on the floor over $15/hour. However, one of the biggest issue we face is workforce stability. If we hire 100 people, after a month, we're probably down to less than 50; and after 6 months, we might retain 10%.

If a company is paying minimum wage, I'm sure those retention numbers are even worse, especially when most minimum wage jobs are supposed to be TEMPORARY!

What does this mean for the minimum wage conversation? Well, a lot. If I ran a company, I wouldn't want to have a pay someone I just hired $15/hour to do training for a week, then screw around for 2 weeks before I fire them or they quit.

Minimum wage should be structured like this: Starting minimum wage is $9/hour. If you work there continuously for 4 months (longer than just a summer job), you get bumped up to $11/hour. If you work there for over a year $13-$15/hour.

This gives companies the workforce stability they want, while rewarding the hard workers the most.

Basically, you need a standard minimum wage progression. Anything else is just lazy and won't solve any problems. It's just trying to buy votes.

None of that happens overnight and you are forgetting a major factor in all of this. Yes, higher wages will create higher costs. But that does not increase the cost of raw materials. The cost of beef on the hoof does not increase. The cost of raw steel does not increase. The labor used to process these items does.

History has taught us that an increase in minimum wage does cause an increase in those making higher wages. So unless this one bucks every known example in our history, those making higher wages will make more as well.

Business doesn't just "create jobs or give you hours" they don't need to. If they could provide their goods or services by working someone 20 hours instead of 30 hours, they would be doing it now. This is simply a false scenario. Businesses are not charities. Their goal is to maximize profits. Yes, some businesses do go the extra mile for their employees. But if you think they simply hire people they don't need or give people hours for the fun of it, you're sadly mistaken.

And the economy. You see people talk about "trickle down economics". But once again that's based on the fabrication that giving money to those at the top result in them creating jobs that aren't needed. That they will pay more "just to be nice". Throughout history this has been shown to be false. Nobody creates jobs they do not need to provide good and services.

Here's how the economy really works. Consumers spend money. When consumers buy more, companies need to hire workers to meet the demand. Without that demand you have no need to create more jobs. Putting more money in the hands of more workers stimulated the economy, not harms it.

Sure there will be inflation. But it will take a lot of time for it to be equal to that increase in minimum wage. I refer back to the fact that the actual cost of raw materials does not increase with wage increases.

What has happened over the past 12 years or so is this. Those same costs you say will increase due to minimum wages have been going up increasingly without a hike in the minimum wage. As a result we have people on the lowest end of our working class living in poverty. I know that may not be your reasoning for continuing to keep wages stagnant, but that is most certainly the result.

Try raising a child on 9$ an hour and get back to me.

I think, before you get into any of the effects you're talking about above, companies in the short term will simply eliminate those positions (whether by downsizing or eventually being forced to close up shop).

I didn't know you raised a child in 4 months? I must be doing something wrong?

I guess they can just try and survive for four months then. Great answer. Should she feed her child or pay the rent for those four months?

She would probably do the same things she's doing now, except better, because she's making $9/hour now instead of $7.25/hour. And if she can keep that job for 4 months, she's now making almost $4/hour more! And if as she stays a whole year, she doubles her pay!

Stop trying to make an emotional arguement about a topic that only requires some common sense and a little original thinking.

Math isn't emotional. When you pay your bills at the end of the month, tell these people their emotions are what is preventing them from making a living.

I guess you have chosen to claim math is emotion and isn't grounded in common sense. Better luck next time.

You have made 0 math related arguments. Only emotional. I can't talk to you because you don't make any logical trains of thought.

You haven't even put forth a plan.

Plan: Raise minimum wage to $15/hour.