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Dawg Talker
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I think some people just get off on questioning everything I say. LOL.
Wow. I can only speak for myself but since you say very little and most of the time are sarcastic, I just like to clarify what you're saying before assuming I'm sure what you meant.
...always have been, always will be...
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Hall of Famer
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You guys are acting like I've been saying you should be crying and having a cow. I've NEVER said that. I'm talking about how many people have just said they felt good about the year and they'll win next year. ONE win away from the series up 3-1. I would have expected it if they lost in the first series or got blown out in the second one, but that damn close.  I thought people would be more upset by that.
Apparently you and I are in the minority. Like you said, if the indians got blown out of the water 4-0 like the Cavs its one thing; to be up 3-1 and then blow it and then say, "well we got further than expected so its OK" is another.  Seize the moment when given the chance.
"My signature line goes here."
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Dawg Talker
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I can only speak for myself, but I've taken this loss harder than any other season I can remember. Since the 27th out I have not watched/listened/read any national sports stories. I've read a few Browns things and I still read an Indians blog that I read/post on, but that's it. I'm not allowing myself to watch any sports or watch any of the World Series because its still too fresh to relive.
With all of that being said, I'm still aware that this is a young team, that is locked up through 2010 for every key piece except Sabathia. There is a delicate balance. I'm upset right now, but I realize that this wasn't a do-or-die year for this team. It hurts, a lot, but I'm still hopeful.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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Go Browns! 
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You guys are acting like I've been saying you should be crying and having a cow. I've NEVER said that. I'm talking about how many people have just said they felt good about the year and they'll win next year. ONE win away from the series up 3-1. I would have expected it if they lost in the first series or got blown out in the second one, but that damn close. I thought people would be more upset by that.
Apparently you and I are in the minority. Like you said, if the indians got blown out of the water 4-0 like the Cavs its one thing; to be up 3-1 and then blow it and then say, "well we got further than expected so its OK" is another. Seize the moment when given the chance.
I'm with you too. When you are tied for the best record in baseball, up 3-1 in the ALCS, how can anyone say it's ok because we did not expect to get that far? With everything going for the Indians this year, the World Series should be expected. As Jules said, next year may be a decade or 2 away.
Was having to a play NY and Boston a reason to say "we don't expect them to get that far?" The way I see it with the way MLB is set up, we'll have to go through New York and Boston to get to the series anyway.
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I'm sorry, but I fail to see a bright side....
Trying opening your eyes then  We have all of our core players coming back, and we don't need to fill many holes. Our payroll is still in good enough shape that we can add a few key players that might help out. We still have lots of young talent that will improve not only playing now, but also coming up thru the system.
There is a bright side Shep, just move the trees out of the way and look at the forrest.
You were outscored 30-5 in the last 3 games and blew a 3-1 series lead. As I already stated, you can continue the mantra of "We'll get 'em next year" all you want but this was the best chance you will have had in awhile to get to the big dance.
You speak of these core players......you speak of payroll.
What do you know about the payroll? Really? Without doing an internet search what do you know about the Tribe's payroll?
Core players?
CC? Who doesn't know how to wear a ballcap let alone be an "ace?"
37 year old Paul Byrd?
32 year old Betancourt?
30 year old Westbrook?
36 year old Miller?
34 year old Blake?
40 year old Lofton?
30 year old Hafner on steroids?
Victor "I can't catch but I can play 1B" Martinez?
Go ahead and rattle off the youngsters that are your core players and when ya get done with that rattle off what they did for ya in the last 3 games of the ALCS.
Go ahead......
My brother and I talked about what we could do to be able to take our dad to a WS game if the Indians made it. He is a 78 year old lifelong Tribe fan....I'm more pissed about not being able to do that than you are about your own team blowing a 3-1 game lead.
But I know......you'll get 'em next year. 
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As poorly as these kids choked under the pressure, THEY WENT TO THE 7th INNING WITHIN A STRIKE OF DEFLATING the Red Sox.
The coaches tried to out-think the game, and it cost them.
No one has pointed a finger at Wedge/Skinner. I point it squarely at them, and the only thing that gets them off the hook would be some explanation that Casey missed a sign.
He should NEVER have been allowed to swing away at that first pitch. That was the ball game.
Yinz got outscored 30-5 in the last 3 games of a best-of-7 series and you blame it on one pitched ball??? 
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Hall of Famer
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I don't think accepting a good showing that doesn't win the whole thing makes you a loser. I think letting it get to you, make you miserable or cause you hate other people because of it makes you more of a loser.
That's a damn good philosophy for everything in life.
Oddly enough, I was thinking along those same lines before I reached your eloquent post....
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Legend
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Legend
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With this core of young guys, are chances are great going into the future.
Fausto 23 1 full season of experience
Arron Laffery 22 1 full year
Jensen Lewis 23 1 full year
Tom Mastny 26 1 full year
Rafael Perez 25 1 full year
Kelly Shoppach 27 2 full years
A. Cabrera 21 1 full year
Josh Barfield 24 2 full years
Ryan Garko 26 2 full years
F. Gutierrez 24 2 full years
Grady Sizemore 25 4 full years
J. Peralta 25 5 full years
Victor Matinez 28 6 full years
Jake Westbrook 30 7 full seasons
CC 27 7 full seasons
Just look how your our roster really was last season.
Here I rattled them off for you again
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You were outscored 30-5 in the last 3 games and blew a 3-1 series lead. As I already stated, you can continue the mantra of "We'll get 'em next year" all you want but this was the best chance you will have had in awhile to get to the big dance.
We'll get 'em next year.
Can you say the same thing about the Reds?
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What do you know about the payroll? Really? Without doing an internet search what do you know about the Tribe's payroll?
I know I was dead on in 2005 when I told everybody around here that the Tribes payroll would jump from about 40 million to between 50 and 60 million in 2006. I know the Tribe's payroll was 60 or 61 million in 2007. I know (no it's not a fact and I can't provide a link) that Cleveland will go to 70 or 80 million in 2008 if they feel it is money that is well spent. I had no reason to search the net for any of that.
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Core players?
CC? Who doesn't know how to wear a ballcap let alone be an "ace?"
What in the hell does the way he wears his hat have to do with anything LOL
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30 year old Hafner on steroids?
I think your losing it Shep .
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Victor "I can't catch but I can play 1B" Martinez?
Now I know you have lost it.
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Go ahead and rattle off the youngsters that are your core players and when ya get done with that rattle off what they did for ya in the last 3 games of the ALCS.
LMAO What they did for us during the season holds more water than what they did for us over a three game stretch. Hell many players could look like Hall Of Famers or Bums over a three game stretch, I thought you were smart enough to know that.
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My brother and I talked about what we could do to be able to take our dad to a WS game if the Indians made it. He is a 78 year old lifelong Tribe fan....I'm more pissed about not being able to do that than you are about your own team blowing a 3-1 game lead.
Ahhh now we get to the real reason for your post. Bitching, crying, moaning, and critisizing, acting like a two year old that didn't get their way? You wanted to take your Dad to that series so your stomping your feet and holding your breath because it didn't happen.
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I'm more pissed about not being able to do that than you are about your own team blowing a 3-1 game lead.
So know you know how pissed I am ROTFLMFAO, just because I choose to look on the bright side rather than cry, and bitch, you know my feelings
 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Steeler
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Ahhh now we get to the real reason for your post. Bitching, crying, moaning, and critisizing, acting like a two year old that didn't get their way? You wanted to take your Dad to that series so your stomping your feet and holding your breath because it didn't happen.
Hmm. These seems like words that would come from an ignorant butt. 
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Legend
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LOL, have to bring up the Reds to make your point? Weak. Just because another team sucks, which we readily admit, doesn't make your team one little tiny bit better. Quote:
Ahhh now we get to the real reason for your post. Bitching, crying, moaning, and critisizing, acting like a two year old that didn't get their way? You wanted to take your Dad to that series so your stomping your feet and holding your breath because it didn't happen.
That was a crappy thing to say, GM, and that was not what he conveyed at all. Maybe you are a little more upset about your team than you let on if you are reacting like this to a post.
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Dawg Talker
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Yinz got outscored 30-5 in the last 3 games of a best-of-7 series and you blame it on one pitched ball???
Yinz? Really? You've sunk that far in? Wow... just wow...
On to your actual points, its obvious that you are trying to bait people into a fight, but I'm going to stay rational and resist your jabs which will come back...
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You speak of these core players......you speak of payroll.
What do you know about the payroll? Really? Without doing an internet search what do you know about the Tribe's payroll?
The Indians payroll was just over $60 million at the start of the season. Between the extensions given in season and the trade for Kenny Lofton, it raised it to just over $70 million. With the contracts of Nixon, Lofton, and a few others coming off, and raises scheduled to players, the Indians payroll for next season, right now, would be slated to be at around $72 million according to current estimates. The Indians will have increased incomes next season. Most figures point to the fact that if a team plays more than 3 games in the postseason, they can bank on an additional $1 million in revenues per game, which would give the Indians an additional $8 million. On top of that, they are selling naming rights of Jacobs Field, which typically generates over $10 million/year in naming rights.
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Core players?
CC? Who doesn't know how to wear a ballcap let alone be an "ace?"
Yeah. CC. He still might be the Cy Young winner (Its a regular season honor). Oh yeah, and he had 19 wins and an ERA of 3.21. Of course, he didn't have a good postseason, but I'm quite content to keep him on this team since he is 27 and just entering his prime.
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37 year old Paul Byrd?
He has a one-year team option, which will be exercised seeing as how it is at $7 million, which he would command on the open market anyhow. I would hardly identify the #4 starter as a core member of the team. You wouldn't either actually, you were just trying to overstate things to try, lamely as it was, to make a point.
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32 year old Betancourt?
30 year old Westbrook?
You make it sound like these are old for these pitchers. Betancourt is 32, but didn't start pitching until his mid 20s. Even then, relievers can throw much longer than starters typically in their career. And since he doesn't get by with velocity, but rather location, it really wouldn't matter that much for 4-6 more years. Westbrook is a sinkerballer who at age 30 should easily still have 5-7 more years in his arm.
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36 year old Miller?
This is quite funny. After you telling us not to Google payroll, you Googled the roster to come up with these names. Unfortunately, you didn't Google the stats to go with it. Matt Miller spent the year at AAA, and is not a core member of the team at all. In fact, I'd imagine he'll probably be released when the team needs to add players to the 40-man roster to protect them from Rule V.
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34 year old Blake?
Blake will probably stay, but in a utility role. He's a complimentary piece, not a core guy. Its a nice option to have, but its not a necessity for this team.
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40 year old Lofton?
He's a free agent and contemplating retirement. You're better than to list him as a core guy, but again you were overreaching to try and prove a point.
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30 year old Hafner on steroids?
Steroids aren't very effective then, are they? I'm not going to say he did or didn't take them, but in a down year the guy hit for 24 HRs and 100 RBI. He's a core guy, and one I'm quite content to keep on roster for a while.
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Victor "I can't catch but I can play 1B" Martinez?
Vic was 5th in baseball in CS% and 4th in fielding %. What can't he do again?
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Go ahead and rattle off the youngsters that are your core players and when ya get done with that rattle off what they did for ya in the last 3 games of the ALCS.
Or you could rattle off what they did over the full season. After all, what would be a better reading on a player, 3 games or a season? Players like Jensen Lewis, Asdrubal Cabrera, Aaron Laffey, Rafael Perez, Ryan Garko, Franklin Gutierrez, and Fausto Carmona. But, like I've said throughout, you are baiting and grossly overstating/overlooking facts to try and prove a weak point.
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I'm more pissed about not being able to do that than you are about your own team blowing a 3-1 game lead.
Congrats! I guess, somehow in your mind, that makes you a better person/ better fan than the rest of us. I'm not out here arguing that it didn't hurt, it did, but this was not a do-or-die year for the team, as it is presently built. Plus, I have complete trust in Mark Shapiro in what he is doing. But, since I'm not on here screaming, yelling, cursing and whining, I'm not a good fan. I get that. [sarcasm] Maybe, at some point in the future, you can give me "good fan" lessons. [/sarcasm]
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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Legend
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Hmm. These seems like words that would come from an ignorant butt.
Whats today??? Thursday, yep it's my day to be a dumb ass instead of a smartass. Friday is my smartass day 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Legend
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That was a crappy thing to say, GM, and that was not what he conveyed at all. Maybe you are a little more upset about your team than you let on if you are reacting like this to a post
Was it crappy.... yep. Was it any crappier than saying Pronk is on roids, Victor can't catch  , or telling people how they should feel about their own team? NOPE
BTW SIS I was more upset by the backhanded slaps at the Indians players, and the backhanded slap to me, implying I know nothing about the Tribes core players and the payroll. 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Dawg Talker
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Well, I'm going to keep away from the drama on this page... I am pumped for Spring Training. Last year in Winter Haven... Hopefully I'll have an Astrovan by then, I'll just stay out there for a week or so.  If any of y'all will be coming down, maybe we can catch a game together. Put the dates out.
I want the Cleveland Browns to be my pallbearers so they can let me down for the last time.
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Legend
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Legend
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What drama  Just a few friends slapping each other around 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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It's like the OC in Ohio.  Just kidding, but I don't want to get involved... I'm a young guy, so I don't really 'get' the frustrated as some of the old (but good ) timers do. I guess I'll be in their shoes soon though, am I right? *Notice that I did not refer to GM as an oldtimer.
I want the Cleveland Browns to be my pallbearers so they can let me down for the last time.
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Legend
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Legend
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I prefer grouchy old fart
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Legend
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As poorly as these kids choked under the pressure, THEY WENT TO THE 7th INNING WITHIN A STRIKE OF DEFLATING the Red Sox.
The coaches tried to out-think the game, and it cost them.
No one has pointed a finger at Wedge/Skinner. I point it squarely at them, and the only thing that gets them off the hook would be some explanation that Casey missed a sign.
He should NEVER have been allowed to swing away at that first pitch. That was the ball game.
Yinz got outscored 30-5 in the last 3 games of a best-of-7 series and you blame it on one pitched ball???
I don't "blame" anything on anything. 30-5 is the total of the run(s) output after game seven; AFTER Betancourt gave up 7 more,...At the point in question, that total would have been 22-5. Those were the two games prior.
No big deal. The Tribe still had a chance to get back in the game and FAILED to play simple baseball. That's all I am pointing out. Where was the steal ? The suicide, the bunt,....? The avoidance of hitting into a double play,...? You have to do the small things too, not just rely on your "big horses" to keep doing what they had been doing all year, and FAILED to do in game 5/6.
It was time to be flexible and adjust to the situation. Skinner and Wedge both failed the team at the critical turning point.
Apparently you are happy to the point of laughing at other people's opinions, who by the way, do not laugh at yours. Pretty sad.
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Hall of Famer
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Can you say the same thing about the Reds?
This thread has nothing to do with the Reds......
But since you brought it up I've seen the Reds win a World Series. A few times.
I saw your original rattling off of core players.....but don't agree that they are "core" players, and if they can't do it in the post-season then they are chokers and not core players. Doing "it" over the course of a 162 game season is all fine and dandy but ya gotta be able to perform when the chips are down.
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What in the hell does the way he wears his hat have to do with anything LOL
Nothing really, but perhaps if it wasn't twisted on sideways your "ace" would not have been plowed like a mule in the postseason.
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I saw your original rattling off of core players.....but don't agree that they are "core" players, and if they can't do it in the post-season then they are chokers and not core players. Doing "it" over the course of a 162 game season is all fine and dandy but ya gotta be able to perform when the chips are down.
They are a young team playing in a seven game series, it's not a matter of choking. As has been pointed out by Wedge, and Mark already we won three games, they won three games. We got beat by the best team in baseball this year. There is no shame in that.
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Nothing really, but perhaps if it wasn't twisted on sideways your "ace" would not have been plowed like a mule in the postseason.
Again. Once again what in the hell does how he wears his hat matter If you want to say he pitched bad in the playoffs then I can agree 100 percent, but it had nothing to do with his hat. It's OK to come right out and say you don't like it when people don't wear their hats like you do Shep.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Hall of Famer
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Reds fans have no room to talk smack this year.
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Legend
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We weren't. Your buddies started it. Again, that's not what this thread is about, but it makes you feel better to use smack, which you always do. Take it somewhere else.
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Legend
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I have to disagree on the smack. IMO these were all smack and they were posted before I ever mention the Reds.
"CC? Who doesn't know how to wear a ballcap let alone be an "ace?"
"30 year old Hafner on steroids?"
"Victor "I can't catch but I can play 1B" Martinez?"
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Hall of Famer
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Legend
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I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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My bad.
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All Pro
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I was thinking of what orj was saying..........and I kind of agree. I kept waiting for someone, anyone to steal a friggin base and it never happened. I kept waiting for the tribe to swing on a first pitch once it was established the starter was able and willing to throw first pitch strikes. We would be behind a strike right away. I like patient hitters to, but once they consistantly throw that first pitch strike it is time to swing the dang bat.
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Dawg Talker
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Nothing really, but perhaps if it wasn't twisted on sideways your "ace" would not have been plowed like a mule in the postseason.
Explain this to me, please. His hat has nothing to do with his performance, but maybe if it was on straight, he'd pitch better? I cannot understand that logic.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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Legend
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Legend
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I was thinking of what orj was saying..........and I kind of agree. I kept waiting for someone, anyone to steal a friggin base and it never happened. I kept waiting for the tribe to swing on a first pitch once it was established the starter was able and willing to throw first pitch strikes. We would be behind a strike right away. I like patient hitters to, but once they consistantly throw that first pitch strike it is time to swing the dang bat.
Thanks for the support,...I like to show appreciation when it is given. It's called "team" ball. However, I wasn't so much about swinging at the first strike as I am about swinging and putting SOME kind of PLAY into effect. Steal, bunt, suicide, DOUBLE STEAL, steal home ? (something Lofton and Vizquel did MANY times to confound the opposition.) But don't get up there and just put the ball in play and execute EXACTLY what the Sox need -- a double play. That's just stupid ass, no aggressiveness baseball. One mistake -- Skinner -- followed up by ANOTHER.
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2nd String
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2nd String
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Hope this is ok to post, it is Curt Shillings blog. He lists the top teams he would consider signing and includes both Cleveland and Detroit: lincoln Free Agency? Weird.Oct 30th, 2007 by Curt Schilling Hard to believe that after 21 years in professional baseball, the first day of free agency would come when I was 40 years old. I’ve not been a free agent for one day of my career before today…… Filing for free agency is weird. I never knew or thought about how it happened. Representing myself I rounded up the legal details and figured out exactly how it works. For the next 15 days I can speak with other teams, and they can contact me, but no details can be discussed. They can only express interest. For the next 15 days the team that remains my first choice, the Sox, have exclusive rights. I guess I’ll find out how closely teams follow rules….. So this huge thing, free agency, was accomplished by doing the following. Place a phone call to the MLBPA, tell them you want to become a free agent, hang up. Weird. Something that can be so life altering was pretty much a 48 second phone call. They file a letter with the commissioners office “A letter of intent” that lists all the players filing that day, and it’s official. The list of teams that our family has talked over, that we think would be a fit for next year, should we not come back, are pretty much teams in cities we agree would be ok for our last year, and teams I think have a legitimate shot at being in the post season and/or World Series. Teams we didn’t include aren’t for any one reason. There are a million little things that go into this from stadiums to school districts to travel to spring training to etc. etc. etc. but the list represents the teams after Boston that have some of the off the field things that are big to us, plus the potential to go into October next year. Cleveland, Detroit, Anaheim, New York Mets, Philadelphia, Atlanta, L.A., S.D., Arizona, Chicago Cubs, St. Louis, Milwaukee
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Posts: 5,950 |
I see Boston as the top runner with the Mets going at him hard, Mets lost glavine or could lose Glavin and they need pitching help.
As for Cleveland I'd say pass, reward / risk / $$$$ dont add up to me when we need a Power hitting left fielder and possible bull pen help, Ya never have enoguh bull pen help as we saw in Detroit this year, two years ago there bull pen was lights out....last year we couldnt wait to get to thier bull pen, it changes every year,
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,367
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,367 |
If you guys would get Schilling it would give me even more reason to dislike the Tribe. God, that man loves himself.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,065
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,065 |
Wellllll,
If Shilling could get healthy this off-season, I would love to add him as a 4-5 man in the rotation. He pitched very well down the stretch giving up 8 ER in 4 post-season games. In August, September and October he posted a 3.2 ERA in 13 combined starts......I would take that ANY day from a guy in the bottom half of our rotation.
My only question being do we want to give a spot to Schilling and potentially take on away from a younger guy like Laffey or Adam Miller? It's a tough call but if Schilling is ready, given our closing window with C.C., I think we roll the dice on a proven vet and try to make a deep playoff run.
I wouldn't break the bank for him but if he would come in on a 2 year deal for let's say 12-13 million (total) I would probably pull the trigger. As other's have mentioned, the bats come first. We seem to have and abundance of young pitching but other then Garko, don't really have a 1st/2nd year guy with much power. We need a run producer before we need a vet starter.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 574
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 574 |
Who cares how CC wears his hat?
Sure we lost, but being a Tribe fan was really fun this year! Before the season started most people didn't even have them winning the division or making the playoffs. To lose when they did was rough, but overall I'd say it was a positive year. It shows you don't need to pay for superstars to compete.
I hope the Browns can continue Cleveland sports teams being in the playoffs!
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
Quote:
If you guys would get Schilling it would give me even more reason to dislike the Tribe. God, that man loves himself.
I would have to make a " bandwagon shift " from 90%-10% Tribe/Reds, and make it 55-45.
I hate that guy.
From the other thread -- we should go after Santana.
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Indians Season Over Thread
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