DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Biden Does Away With Keystone Pipeline Jobs

WASHINGTON, DC – Today, the Association of Oil Pipe Lines (AOPL) lamented the Biden administration's first day action to block thousands of new jobs and deprive those workers of billions of dollars in payroll salary. The losses are a result of President Biden's expected revocation of the cross-border permit for the Keystone XL pipeline, currently under construction between Alberta, Canada and Nebraska.

“Killing 10,000 jobs and taking $2.2 billion in payroll out of workers pockets is not what Americans need or want right now,” said Andy Black, AOPL President and CEO.

Building the Keystone XL pipeline would create 10,000 good-paying American union jobs during construction. U.S. employment wages would exceeded $2.2 billion under a Project Labor Agreement with four American labor unions. The pipeline's builder was ready to award over $3 billion in contracts awarded to U.S. contractors and suppliers in 2020 with all new steel pipe for Keystone XL is Made in America.

The project also offered significant environmental protections. Keystone XL would operate at net-zero GHG emissions. Its $1.7 billion investment in new, privately-funded renewable power infrastructure would provide 100% of the power to operate the pipeline. The project sponsor also executed a renewable power MOU with North America’s Building Trades Unions to construct this renewable power infrastructure with a $10 million Green Job Training Fund for union workers.

The Biden Keystone XL cancellation will also hurt Native American communities. Native American partnerships in the project would generated more than $1 billion in equity ownership opportunities with input into construction and operations. The project sponsor committed over $500 million for Native American suppliers and employment opportunities for tribal communities. Rural America would lose out on over $100 million of annual property taxes that would have gone to rural communities.

Blocking Keystone XL may ironically lead to an increase in greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions. Government analysis shows pipelines emit fewer GHGs when they make their deliveries compared to other modes of transportation. Denying construction of Keystone XL means much of that crude oil will travel by train or truck instead, producing greater GHG emissions, more air pollution and more traffic congestion.

AOPL represents liquids pipeline owners and operators transporting crude oil, petroleum products like gasoline, diesel fuel, jet fuel, home heating oil, industrial feedstocks like ethane and rural fuels like propane. AOPL represents over 50 pipeline companies with over 200,000 miles of pipelines across America delivering affordable, reliable and plentiful energy to American drivers, families, farmers, workers and shoppers. oil, petroleum products like gasoline, diesel fuel, jet fuel, home heating oil, industrial feedstocks like ethane and rural fuels like propane. AOPL represents over 50 pipeline companies with over 200,000 miles of pipelines across America delivering affordable, reliable and plentiful energy to American drivers, families, farmers, workers and shoppers.

https://aopl.org/stories/aopl-laments-jobs-lost-on-biden-s-on-first-day

It never should have been greenlit to begin with. Why should we deal with the spills for Canada to make the money? No thanks. And you can't lose jobs that should never have existed in the first place. This is just GOPer whining IMHO. And for all the crap I got for riding Trump, I can already see the same is going to happen to Biden.

I'm not going to argue, y'all see it as jobs lost and I see it as environment saved. That is all.

They'll still transport... but just use rail or trucks... I'm not sure what is the safest... large/new pipelines feel to be safer than train transport, but honestly I don't know enough on the subject...

Environment saved? There are way more spills when you transport on rail and in trucks. And then there's the obvious fact that there are waaay less greenhouse emissions when oil is running through a pipe rather than rumbling across train tracks.

Same old same old, politics as usual, with the obvious statement coming when Biden's #1 agenda was b*tch-slapping the pipeline back into the lap of republicans.

Meanwhile, SUVS keep setting new benchmarks for vehicle sales around the world.

I don't have a problem with a pipeline. It's not like we don't have any running across the country. What's one more?

Plus, I am sure it will be able to replace older systems.

Running trains and trucks millions of miles a year is much better for the environment than a static pipeline though.

That pipeline was constantly leaking. Don’t even have an accurate stat for how much oil leaked and other maintenance aspects.

Maybe an infrastructure deal would be nice to fix our third world looking highways, as well.

No, you can. See one day a lot of people had jobs, the next day they didn't. Your "feelings" about their job is irrelevant, it existed.

j/c

Just a couple of notes here. As of November 2019 The United States actually began exporting both refined fuel as well as crude oil. We began exporting natural gas in 2017.

As time has gone on, we are becoming more and more dependent on renewable energy such as electric automobiles.

People always look at the jobs that are and will continue to be lost in the fossil fuel industry without ever mentioning the jobs created in renewable energy for shock value.

In other words, we never really needed the Keystone Pipeline to begin with.

An electric automobile is not renewable energy, it relies on electricity, much of which is made by fossil fuels.


We still consume north of 19 million barrels of oil per day.. 62 million homes are heated with natural gas as well as most commercial buildings and schools... it's not going away for decades, if ever. But people's costs will go up as they wait for the utopia of solar and wind power to take over.

You should take a stand, go out to the meter and turn your gas off... I'm sure some of it came through a pipeline.

Its just the dems playing childish politics. So what if a bunch of Americans lose their jobs. That will show that Damn Trump.

Ummmmmm.

Awe, you think I should stop using electricity because I pointed out that our production is now far greater than ever and we ARE reducing the need for oil and fossil fuels as time has gone on. Fuel standards are making us use less and less oil as well.

I bet you would have been one of those guys complaining that cars were never going to replace the horse and buggy too. That's one of the things that make progress so hard. Even when the future is obvious there will still be so many trying to deny it.

I had no idea my electricity was being created by oil. I mean that is what this topic is about right? An oil pipeline we really don't need?

When you should be talking about the childish politics you are playing pretending that there aren't even more good jobs being created to replace those jobs which actually produce an increase in net jobs.

Of course showing both ends of it would prove you wrong and you would never do that.

Renewable Energy Job Boom Creates Economic Opportunity As Coal Industry Slumps

https://www.forbes.com/sites/energyinnov...sh=274035473665

Where did I say you should stop using electricity?


Didn't say that either.


I actually love progress.. I'm just much more realistic than some about how long it's going to take because of how entrenched we are in the old.


How do you know we don't need it? Did you do the cost/benefit analysis and run all of the numbers and figure in the profits and opportunity to export and the jobs involved in creating it and running it and the projected current and future demand for the oil and gas that will flow through it?

No, you didn't do any of that. You google searched a couple talking points and plowed ahead with your preconceived opinion. Because you are smarter than all of the people who did the research and the engineering and are willing to pay for it.

My biggest thing is trying to figure out how we can sustainably lower the costs and incentivize change to actually occur now or in the near future.

It would be great to have a solar powered home, the battery to store it all, and a Tesla to drive.

It would also be great to actually have the money to afford all of that without going into hock like crazy.

Since I live in an all electric home the only thing I could turn off is my electric.

I have no idea what the hell you are talking about otherwise. Nobody needs to be an engineer to look at how quickly the use of renewable energy is rising. Nobody needs to be an engineer to see the increased production of electric vehicles which means more and more people are buying them.

Those are clear indicators of the current trends in which way we are headed. You seem to think that I haven't looked at anything but spur of the moment. I most certainly have. We are on a steady path away from oil. Increased production at a time when the market is trending in the other direction doesn't take an engineer or cost/loss benefits.

Once again, the future creation of energy jobs are being created already. They are in renewable energy. Some things require in depth research. Some things are far less complicated.

I mean since you seem to be so interested in cost effectiveness, you may want to look at the actual type of oil that travels through the Keystone pipeline and what the costs of refining that product actually costs compared to other types of oil before you start talking to other people about cost effectiveness.

If you wish to know what people actually propose being sent through the Keystone pipeline, google "tar sand oil extraction". This isn't what you would typically think of when you say the word oil.

I agree. I've said for a long time that solar will really take off when the solar is built into the home and not slapped on the roof or in the yard... when it's the roof, the windows, the siding, etc. When everything is essentially a functioning solar panel.

You can re-shingle your roof for what, $4-5/sf? A Tesla solar roof is $22-25/sf with a payback of 11 years. I can't spend $100K to do my roof and wait 11 years before it starts to pay me back.. and it's not like you can just tack that onto the resale price.

Could go geothermal for the HVAC system, would work well where I live but again... up front cost would be huge and I'll be moved on before I ever get close to a payback.

I'm all for it.. would love to have all of it.. once it becomes competitive... and for me, the answer to making it competitive is NOT to drive up the price of oil and gas now.. I'm willing to give a little to do my part, but they have a long way to go to get to where I can afford.

As far as Tesla the car, everybody that I know that has one loves it... don't need a new car and don't really want something the size and body style of a Tesla.. once there are more choices, I'll consider it.

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

(sounds heard when a roller coaster descends)

That actually sounds like a crap way to live.

I think it'd be great to go back, to having a wood fed fireplace, with actual chimneys,
and the sweet smell of chimney smoke in neighborhoods,
ahh,
where people were civil.

And a time before all of these satelites in the sky with a laser eye on all peoples every visit to the bathroom of bite of a hot dog during a summertime day at the park.

Yes, a time where people would actually walk inside of a bank and talk to a person,
and paint was sold by one gallon, with wood stirring sticks.

funny but, a thing about wood stirring sticks, they don't have to be reloaded because the processor or server crashed.

And we need to put lead back in paint!!!!

You know what else it's probably going to do, I bet it would take America from being energy independent like it was a few days ago

to going back to being dependent on opec for oil,

Ah Geez, the democrats, do not have what's best for America in mind,

at least that's their ongoing theme.

And we need to go back to the time we had to hand crank the engines to start our cars!! That’s how you really build some character!!!

Jc

So imma attempt to have a discussion with those who consider themselves conservatives because talking money is fun with you guys...normally.

My issue right now is that clean energy has clearly been the future for quite some time (as my ETFs and mutual funds have also suggested), so why should the government/society be held hostage by oil companies who refuse to adapt?

People are upset about the pipeline, and yet for what? Yes, oil demand is always rising, but that’s more to do with population growth. The point is to try and increase our energy demands while lowering the carbon footprint. Clean energy and future innovation literally gives us the best of both worlds. People keep talking about jobs like the rise of clean energy won’t replace it. People lost jobs making horse shoes as well, but the country gained employment thanks to the rise in automobiles.

I’m looking at Mega cap blend companies like Exxon Mobil, and holy crap what a bunch of freaking dinosaurs.

They could’ve taken their profits, invested heavily into renewables and other sources of clean energy, marketed themselves as global leaders in clean energy innovation, and continued rolling in the cash and donating to republicans like they always do.

Instead, they got...well, conservative. Stuck in their ways. Refuse to change, and now they’re cutting expenses and such do to some of the shaky oil demand and price of oil per barrel.

Why should society be held hostage by those who refuse to adapt? We always talk about survival of the fittest and let the market decide.

Well the market decided to go the way of clean energy, and yet instead of embracing it, we got half the country clinging to dying industries.

Never mind the environmental impact, financially that’s just dumb as hell.

Edit: and before anybody tried to blame COVID, here:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspecul...sh=6eb6525c73be

They were having problems back in 2018.

I have to find it but I heard a report that this pipeline is still mostly in the planning stage and that less than 1000 jobs that actually exist will be lost. The rest of that 8000 figure is projected jobs. If this is true, it looks like facts are again getting in the way.

And Duty, here's a clue: Other than impeaching/prosecuting Trump for his disgusting crimes, we have completely moved on if you haven't noticed. Biden is doing what he can with EOs to reverse some damage and simply stop other damage. That's what this and the drilling in National parks was. And the only reason Trump did these things in the first place was to flip the bird as a climate denier... Qboys ate that crap up.

Additionally, where do GOPers come up with all their crap? I mean whining about unity, crying about Biden's EOs, demanding to be treated fairly as the minority party, sniffling about being labeled racist, fascist, or even traitor... All that drama queen drama, pearl clutching, and fake outrage just a week after YOUR President and a few thousand of YOU tried to stage a coup on the damn country! Insurrectionists and seditionists don't get to have it their way because betraying the country has consequences! Y'all didn't JUST lose the election, you've lost your damn minds.

Actually, no GOPers do this. It's all the libtards wishful thinking and crying. You all cry so much and then try to blame the right for your tears.

Nope it's definitely the Kens and Karens on the right. Fact deniers.

It's a 2 way street.

First, companies like Exxon and Shell are global players. They invest heavily in solar. The problem is on a global basis, solar is a fraction of the global energy production. I am still invested in Exxon. I get all their reports, so I know they are ready to roll heavily in to solar, but not until it makes sense. At this time, rolling in to solar or electric doesn't make sense for a company like them. Let start up companies figure out how to charge car batteries in 2 minutes v however long it currently takes. They invest in those companies, then when the time is right, buy them out and roll it out, or at minimum, roll together as invested partners.

It's impossible for the government to force things people can't afford or maybe even want.

As it stands, electric is expensive. It's also not all that practical. There are three things that need to happen before electric starts to take hold.

1. It needs to be affordable. No need to discuss why.

2. Range and charging times need to be improved. A quick check indicated it takes 35 minutes to add 100 miles of range to a partially drained battery. Not very practical IMO if you are traveling. Right now charging stations are fairly scarce, though I know that could change in short order as demand increases.

3. People are still going to want big cars. As people age, they don't want a dinky car. Yes, even Swish is one day going to want a big Caddy or something similar because even you are one day going to get wider, thicker, and less flexible. Even smack in the middle of middle age, you are going to consider the benefits of a mini van. You know, maybe have a sticker on the rear window of a stick figure man, woman, several children, and maybe a dog. Swish cruising down the road in his man van, his new chick magnet. LOL...see it, might as well embrace it. It's in your future.

No getting away from that my friend.

They don’t all lose jobs, maybe some like any other company with issues and during covid. Most stay on with the construction company and move to other projects.

I saw someone claim that pipelines are less likely to pollute the environment.

https://www.nrdc.org/stories/what-keystone-pipeline

Tar sands oil is thicker, more acidic, and more corrosive than lighter conventional crude, and this ups the likelihood that a pipeline carrying it will leak. Indeed, one study found that between 2007 and 2010, pipelines moving tar sands oil in Midwestern states spilled three times more per mile than the U.S. national average for pipelines carrying conventional crude. Since it first went into operation in 2010, TC Energy’s original Keystone Pipeline System has leaked more than a dozen times; one incident in North Dakota sent a 60-foot, 21,000-gallon geyser of tar sands oil spewing into the air. Most recently, on October 31, 2019, the Keystone tar sands pipeline was temporarily shut down after a spill in North Dakota of reportedly more than 378,000 gallons.

I'm sure that the pipeline wouldn't be a likely target for terrorist attacks either.

As for Jobs?

""The oil industry has lobbied hard to get KXL built by using false claims, political arm-twisting, and big bucks. When TC Energy said the pipeline would create nearly 119,000 jobs, a State Department report instead concluded the project would require fewer than 2,000 two-year construction jobs and that the number of jobs would hover around 35 after construction.""

35 seems a very low number - but even if it was 2,000 permanent jobs, meh. Not a deal maker/breaker.

And this is an issue some either aren't aware of or find it convenient to leave out of the discussion. This isn't "crude oil". It's "tar sand oil". Those are two different things. Tar sand oil is so expensive to reclaim that the cost of oil would have to be above $60 a barrel to even show a profit. It's more polluting to produce. It's more polluting to refine and as you mentioned, more corrosive to pipelines.

It is apples to oranges trying to compare tar sand oil to crude oil but some would rather turn a blind eye to the difference and present it as being equal.

And the odd thing about that is, someone tried to point the finger at me as if I didn't understand cost and risk. Me thinks someone protests too much.

I’m all for the free market, and would welcome their demise. I can’t stand the fact that they donate so much to influence politics. I hate it.

I see tactically what they are doing though. They have such an insane amount of cash on hand that they can both maximize profits on the current situation and still buy their way to the top of emerging industries when front runners develop.

“Hey, look at this up and coming alternative fuel company! Wait, now they’re owned by Chevron.”

My dad went the mini van route his last few years. His buddies called him "soccer mom". Nice guys, they were.

Last summer I took a road trip to visit family. 3,000 miles round trip. I made 8 stops for gas. If I had to charge my car each time, that would've added another day of driving.

I live in Colorado, you're not going to find charging stations in nowheresville in the middle of the rocky mountains.

This is the same for Montana where the small towns roll up the sidewalks after 6 pm. Montana is a very big, sparsely populated state with very cold, battery unfriendly weather!

For the Record, I don't want unity with the left.

I don't want whatever God is going to do to them, to be anywhere around that.

3 million ford cars were recalled because of air bags.

air bags are not necessary for auto construction, until the dang liberal insurance companies got involved in the late 20th century.

think about it.

hashtag Worldwide Habitrail
in other news space x launched 134 satelites into space,

What are those for? Spying on popcorn makers?

explanation: (what the ph<%#*) does Throw Long mean), TL feels the government has already accelerated spying on everything to the level that all things are under present observation to the extent the only thing he can think of that remains on which the government could possibly be spying on and would require new satelites to impede on the privacy of citizens, are ancillary household objects or leisure items maybe found in garages, one example being; A CUSSWORD POPCORN! MAKER!)

We’re whining about mandatory air bags now?

We’ve reached next level crazy from the right.

*wondering where they can put them on motorcycles*