DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus 45 Percent of Republican Voters Support Storming of Capitol Building: Poll

Centrist are the crazy ones! 40+ years of neoliberal neoconservative centrist corporatist policies have created all of this mess. It eventually brought us the tea party, then Trump... all because the middle class was under financial assault for 40+ years. That's radical and extreme. It also creates the cracks in democracy that allow the fascists, racists, and authoritarian leaders to rise. Save the democracy and back progressive policies for a decade or two. Rebuild the middle class.

Yet comparing every Democrat as socialists is there rallying cry. You have never been good at paying attention.

j/c

FBI vetting Guard troops in DC amid fears of insider attack

WASHINGTON (AP) — U.S. defense officials say they are worried about an insider attack or other threat from service members involved in securing President-elect Joe Biden’s inauguration, prompting the FBI to vet all of the 25,000 National Guard troops coming into Washington for the event.

The massive undertaking reflects the extraordinary security concerns that have gripped Washington following the deadly Jan. 6 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol by pro-Trump rioters. And it underscores fears that some of the very people assigned to protect the city over the next several days could present a threat to the incoming president and other VIPs in attendance.

Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy told The Associated Press on Sunday that officials are conscious of the potential threat, and he warned commanders to be on the lookout for any problems within their ranks as the inauguration approaches. So far, however, he and other leaders say they have seen no evidence of any threats, and officials said the vetting hadn’t flagged any issues that they were aware of.

”We’re continually going through the process, and taking second, third looks at every one of the individuals assigned to this operation,” McCarthy said in an interview after he and other military leaders went through an exhaustive, three-hour security drill in preparation for Wednesday’s inauguration. He said Guard members are also getting training on how to identify potential insider threats.

About 25,000 members of the National Guard are streaming into Washington from across the country — at least two and a half times the number for previous inaugurals. And while the military routinely reviews service members for extremist connections, the FBI screening is in addition to any previous monitoring.

Multiple officials said the process began as the first Guard troops began deploying to D.C. more than a week ago. And they said it is slated to be complete by Wednesday. Several officials discussed military planning on condition of anonymity.

“The question is, is that all of them? Are there others?” said McCarthy. “We need to be conscious of it and we need to put all of the mechanisms in place to thoroughly vet these men and women who would support any operations like this.”

In a situation like this one, FBI vetting would involve running peoples’ names through databases and watchlists maintained by the bureau to see if anything alarming comes up. That could include involvement in prior investigations or terrorism-related concerns, said David Gomez, a former FBI national security supervisor in Seattle.

Insider threats have been a persistent law enforcement priority in the years after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. But in most cases, the threats are from homegrown insurgents radicalized by al-Qaida, the Islamic State group or similar groups. In contrast, the threats against Biden’s inauguration have been fueled by supporters of President Donald Trump, far-right militants, white supremacists and other radical groups. Many believe Trump’s baseless accusations that the election was stolen from him, a claim that has been refuted by many courts, the Justice Department and Republican officials in key battleground states.

The insurrection at the Capitol began after Trump made incendiary remarks at the Jan. 6 rally. According to McCarthy, service members from across the military were at that rally, but it’s not clear how many were there or who may have participated in the breach at the Capitol. So far only a couple of current active-duty or National Guard members have been arrested in connection with the Capitol assault, which left five people dead. The dead included a Capitol Police officer and a woman shot by police as she climbed through a window in a door near the House chamber.

Gen. Daniel R. Hokanson, chief of the National Guard Bureau, has been meeting with Guard troops as they arrive in D.C. and as they gather downtown. He said he believes there are good processes in place to identify any potential threats.

“If there’s any indication that any of our soldiers or airmen are expressing things that are extremist views, it’s either handed over to law enforcement or dealt with the chain of command immediately,” he said.

The insider threat, however, was just one of the security concerns voiced by officials on Sunday, as dozens of military, National Guard, law enforcement and Washington, D.C., officials and commanders went through a security rehearsal in northern Virginia. As many as three dozen leaders lined tables that ringed a massive color-coded map of D.C. reflected onto the floor. Behind them were dozens more National Guard officers and staff, with their eyes trained on additional maps and charts displayed on the wall.

The Secret Service is in charge of event security, but there is a wide variety of military and law enforcement personnel involved, ranging from the National Guard and the FBI to Washington’s Metropolitan Police Department, U.S. Capitol Police and U.S. Park Police.

Commanders went over every aspect of the city’s complicated security lockdown, with McCarthy and others peppering them with questions about how the troops will respond in any scenario and how well they can communicate with the other enforcement agencies scattered around the city.

Hokanson said he believes his troops have been adequately equipped and prepared, and that they are rehearsing as much as they can to be prepared for any contingency.

The major security concern is an attack by armed groups of individuals, as well as planted explosives and other devices. McCarthy said intelligence reports suggest that groups are organizing armed rallies leading up to Inauguration Day, and possibly after that.

The bulk of the Guard members will be armed. And McCarthy said units are going through repeated drills to practice when and how to use force and how to work quickly with law enforcement partners. Law enforcement officers would make any arrests.

He said Guard units are going through “constant mental repetitions of looking at the map and talking through scenarios with leaders so they understand their task and purpose, they know their routes, they know where they’re friendly, adjacent units are, they have the appropriate frequencies to communicate with their law enforcement partners.”

The key goal, he said, is for America’s transfer of power to happen without incident.

“This is a national priority. We have to be successful as an institution,” said McCarthy. “We want to send the message to everyone in the United States and for the rest of the world that we can do this safely and peacefully.”

https://apnews.com/article/biden-inaugur...dc9fefed1242ae8

Is that a joke or are you the joke?

You really need to be paying more attention. It's hard enough for people that try and advance the people at the bottom to get elected the way it is. Most people are smart enough to know Biden isn't a socialist. If it weren't for that Trump would have probably have won.

I'm pretty sure that very soon you will get a democratic socialist as the nominee. Once they get stomped in a national election, get back to afterwords and try explaining it.

Not our fault that the Democratic Party would rather grift the donor class and corporations for donations to keep themselves in positions of power.

Get rid of American hegemony and plutocracy. That’s more important than keeping taxes at a lower level so they get donations.

I pretty much agree.
Trump did not have the most elaborate campaign plan of all time. Basically, he found the people that have been offered nothing for 40 years and offer them something small. Vilifying these people is a big mistake when all anyone ever had to do to get them on their side was offer them anything.

For example, The Mahoning Valley went to Trump twice and for people that don't know anything about the Mahoning Valley, that is insane, because 15 years ago, the Mahoning Valley was a Democratic lock.

curious as to what you think Trump offered them this time around?

I mean yes - 2016, he offered something different & he wasn't Hilary.

2020 - to me - he didn't run on anything other than fear mongering and being a victim: Covid was a hoax that the world played on him and was hyped by the media to ruin 'his' economy - and he ran on not being a communist while trying to tell his base and any Republican that would listen that the Dems and Biden (who is so centrist it's not funny) were going to fundamental change America so much that you won't recognize it in 4 years time.

If he ran "for" something - then he sure didn't get the message out.

The side that refuses to recognize gender, is demanding a female president. ( I like that quote, don't know who it's from, point is)

It's pretty clear to see how whacko the left is.

This is the kind of stuff you post when you just can't hold it in any more, and you have no viable argument regarding the topic at hand.

Again, another one of your disjointed non-sequiturs as you try to get the bloodhounds to look at your squirrel.


transparent (and flimsy) as Saran Wrap.


If you want to have a gender conversation, start a gender thread.

Back then Georgia and Nevada were Republican strongholds too. Funny how things work out isn't it?

Whose whackos stormed the capital building on Jan. 6th? In case you missed it, they're the dangerous ones.

PERFECT! A centrist moderate arguing with an alt-righter about who is more dangerous to the country... You just can't make this crap up. lmao

As compared to the fringe left radical who leads the forum in hysteria driven extremist propaganda.

Oh put away the stirring schtick, nobody asked you. Don't you have a mixed potion to slurp?

You never disappoint. You have never had enough common sense to figure out who to rally against. To you, someone who wants 80% of the same thing you do will never be enough for you. It's why you'll always end up on the losing end of things.

Along with the Progressive that can't/won't differentiate between the two. Entertaining, indeed!

More or less dangerous than the ones who tried to break into a federal courthouse, started fires, and then spent multiple nights firing live fireworks at federal officers?

That doesn't count, come on man. You probably need to be deprogrammed.

Says the guy who believes China developed and unleashed the virus on America all on purpose so they can take over the world, and make Donald Trump look bad. Que the mad scientist laugh.

I guess that depends on your perspective. Don't you think overthrowing our democratically held elections to keep what at that point would be an illegitimate government in power in our own nation is more dangerous? You see riots in the name of social justice as being on equal footing as an attempted overthrow of our government?

You see, unlike so many Trumpians, I always called out the violence that erupted from those protests. I advocated calling them criminal acts and said they should be arrested and prosecuted.

Many on the right consider their criminal acts as some patriotic duty and promote that the Biden administration will be an illegitimate government.

No, those two things are not the same and one is far more dangerous than the other one. It's not even close.

And no amount of rationalization can change that.

No, I think what happened at the Capitol is more serious and more dangerous.. I just don't think it is orders of magnitude more dangerous.

Since it happened I've pushed back against the common narrative that there was any attempt to overthrow the government..

If you are trying to overthrow the government and you gain control of one of their buildings, you don't voluntarily leave.
If you occupy the seat of the democracy, you make demands, you fight to keep it.
I also find it odd that the oft described "gun nuts" who carried long guns to mask and shutdown protests, who carry guns when they go to Walmart, who pine for the days when kids went to school with shotguns in their trucks, showed up to overthrow the government without a single gun.

I think what happened at the Capitol was very serious, more serious than what happened in Portland.. I just don't think what happened at the Capitol was what folks want to say it was.

I think the only reason it wasn't more serious is because it was parts of different groups from different places with differing ideologies which made it impossible to be an organized effort to accomplish their goals. At a certain point it simply became disjointed and confusing.

I don't see how that in any way changes their goals or what their intentions were. You could hear them screaming "Hang Mike Pence!". You could hear them screaming to get their hands on Pelosi. Their intent and mission was clear. Their execution of it was horrible.

They screamed a lot of things.. but what real effort did they make to find Mike Pence or Nancy Pelosi once they got inside? They walked around and whenever they encountered any real resistance, they backpedaled.

It wasn't about being disjointed, it was about lacking conviction. If they really had any conviction to do what people say they were going to do, a lot more people would be dead.

Let's be honest, a lot of these militia warriors are the ultimate cowards.. they love guns, but only when they are the only ones that have them... they talk big and bad out at the militia compound and on social media but when confronted with a serious counterforce, they will run... and if Mike Pence had walked straight out into the middle of them, there wasn't a single one with the guts to do what they were chanting.. (not that I'm advocating he should have taken that chance).. but we both know it's true.

Oh I do differentiate, but it's more fun when I pretend not to...

All I'll say is that it was a good thing they didn't get their hands on Pelosi or Pence because you would be singing a different tune right now if they had. The fact that they did this without any follow through does not excuse one iota of the fact they did it. Thankfully they just weren't that smart which ultimately made them less dangerous. I mean who in the world thinks storming the Capitol building, beating cops, smashing crap and hunting politicians was a prime selfie moment or Facebook live stream material other than a group of total morons? Tracing these guys is the easiest thing the FBI has had to do in a long time. They might as well have held up signs saying "I'm a dumbass criminal, come arrest me".

I hated the damage done by the riots, but I also know for a fact that much of it was the right inducing those riots. I do not and will not lay blame on the peaceful protestors that outnumbered rioters 100s to 1. Just like I would not say Trump supporters who were there on the 6th but did not storm the capitol are guilty of insurrection even if their pals were. Condemning BLM or the protest against cops murdering blacks due to riots that may or may not have been associated to BLM is nuts. But that won't stop the right from trying.

I think the insurrection was an attempted coup to keep Trump in power, period. It in no way compares to the BLM protests and only compares in violence to the riots and looting. The whole idea that they didn't like the elections results so they just decided Biden cheated and they could do that then go home and lead happy ALL AMERICAN lives was just insanity and WAY more dangerous than the riots. I never heard of any looters or rioters that got arrested and charged thinking what they did was heroic... this is what makes what happened in DC so scary and dangerous if you ask me. These people thought they were doing god's work, being heros, and saving the country... INSANE.

I don't think that we'll ever agree on this. There never was a call to occupy the Capital Building. That was never their stated goal. And to at least some extent we do agree. In such a situation as this you do have what I call "the dog that's chasing the car". If they actually catch the car they are chasing, they wouldn't know what to do with the car if they caught it.

But as I stated, there were different factions involved here. Some were certainly far more bark than they were bite. Some more innocuous than others. Some of these people and groups are very dangerous and I feel you are undervaluing the level of chaos and death they may have unleashed had their intended targets have been found.

That's one thing about a mob. Where as they may be far less dangerous on their own, when put together in such a heated pitch and spurred on by voices they trust, what they are capable of is not predictable and what otherwise may have its limitations will certainly rise above it.

These aren't people who feel they were cheated out of some overtime pay. These are people who have been convinced that the election had been stolen from them. That what was actually told were their enemies were taking over. That these people would end America and their way of life as they know it. That these people taking over would destroy America.

Putting on a show isn't what this was about for some very dangerous and extreme factions that were a part of this crowd. The more information that's coming out the clearer that picture has become and we will be seeing even more as further information comes to light.

I'd like to jump in if you don't mind.

My view on it is that there appears to be a blend of people, but I am not sure of the ratios.

Off the top of my head, these are the following tiers from least concerning to most concerning:

1. Trump supporters who were just there in a supporting presence.

2. Adamant protesters. These were the people who marched down to the Capitol and were looking to push the limits, but not enter the premise.

3. Trespassers. People who wanted to enter into the Capitol without any real intention of following through or causing harm. Basically, they got caught up in the fervor and wanted to go inside. Take some selfies with cops. No real end game.

4. Havoc-wreakers. People who wanted to enter the Capitol with the intention of either self-promotion or imposing mayhem as a power play. These are the people who went through offices and messed them up or looted stuff out of the building. They wanted to break windows and cause damage.

5. Hostage-takers. These are the worst ones that would embody the terrorism mantra. I would include the dude who walked in with the zip-tie cuffs. I don't think he would have brought those if he had no intention of using them. I think this was the most pre-meditated element.

As you move from less extreme to more extreme on that list, I think there were fewer and fewer people, but the worst-of-the-worst on that list needed the less extreme people on there to provide the numbers. I think as the people on the list who fit 1-3 realized they didn't know WTH they were going to do next and started leaving, that groups 4 and 5 realized that they needed to leave as well because they didn't have the strength in number to pull off their motives. I do think, had something monumental happened (say they captured AOC or a prominent Democrat), that could have galvanized a lot of people in the crowd to move up in number.

I agree with DC's point about a lot of these people being cowards when actually confronted with force, but I don't think all were. The lady who got shot, I'm guessing would have fit Group 4 or 5 on that list. When she got shot, all the other people there (who I'm guessing mostly fit 2-3) you could tell were like "oh hell no." Had she busted through and not been shot, and actually gotten to the Reps/Senators, I think this conversation would be going a lot differently.

I think, more or less, most would agree with you. But this last sentence might be where there is the most contention. I agree with you. There were people there planning, willing and able to take this to the extreme. Wanting to take it to the extreme.

It's also clear that the whole thing had Trump Ally backing and support ... what we don't know is whether that backing was aimed at supporting the efforts of group 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 in your list. The Rudy call and voice message to the wrong Senator still has me deeply concerned and believing that Trump was trying to delay the proceedings for a specific event/purpose. What other conclusion can you draw?

That call was definitely concerning. It wasn't a "Hey, how are you doing? Is everything okay?" It was "Hey, we still need to delay this thing a few more hours."

Was it because he knew of the events all along, or was it because he was trying to be opportunistic as a result of the events having already occurred? I can't definitively say, but yeah, at a very baseline level, that call is cause for a lot of concern.

I think you pretty much described my feelings on the matter. There were different factions within the crowd that stormed the Capital with different intentions.

And please, it's an open forum so jump in any time. The more actual discussion and honest opinions we have on here the better. As you pointed out before, there are people who wish to have an open dialogue and those who just want to be a distraction. While I will certainly respond in kind to those simply sowing discourse, I'm not about to let them derail honest debate and discussion among those willing to do so.

Maybe..... hypothetically.

So exactly how many people needed to die before you’ll call this a violent attempted coup to keep trump in power? Mmmm?

more.

Could you give us an accurate body count?

Of the 6 people that died that I am aware of, 1 was the lady that was shot by the cap. police officer. 1 was a cap. police officer that succumbed to injuries. Both are tragic. The lady died doing something she shouldn't have, but she's still dead, right?

The officer that died doing his job, tragic. The people responsible need to be held accountable.

That's 2 deaths.

To get to 6, included is an officer that committed suicide a day or so later.

3 of the deaths were medical emergencies. (heart attack? Other?)

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/us/capitol-mob-deaths/index.html

Exactly. Pfft trump supporters.

I'm not sure what your point is. You do realize that if they had been sitting at home or had gone fishing instead of being worked into a frenzy and being involved in a riot, they probably wouldn't have been having a heart attack, right?

I mean I understand some people will try to downplay how many people died that day by any means possible but....