DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Unity Without Accountability?

Pompeo is 100% correct.

The left tries to spread unity by canceling anyone who disagrees with them.

Well they'll never muzzle you Eve, so we can all be happy about that.

All this talk of unity is sickening to me, who wants unity with Nazis, racists, traitors, and insurrectionist? Once they have been hunted down, tried, and convicted we can call for unity. But there are a lot of GOPer leaders that have some serious explaining to do for the last four years too, and now with Trump not sitting I think we'll learn much more about 2016 Russiagate, Trump robbing the country blind, and all of the many many crimes committed by this fascist regime.

He is correct, but a statement like that coming from someone who's on the side that incited a riot to commit a coup and overturn a legit election is... hilariously hypocritical.

I just wonder if he is including anything to make life better for hard working Americans being called socialism and communism are included in his "isms"?

I don't believe that I misunderstand what is meant by unity. I believe that most people don't understand why they subconsciously insert the word "unity" in place of "non-violence" or "peace". Why do people do this? The word implies "oneness". One way of doing things. One point of view. Unity is conformity. When people insert the word unity in place of peace, they are most likely doing so because they have a desire for unity to occur on their terms, but they don't really realize that they are making this distinction.

We can always achieve unity with another person, on any disagreement, by choosing to conform to other persons desires. It is 100% our own choice. Is anyone here willing to give up their support for their politics in order to achieve unity with their political opposition? It seems undeniable to me that each of the two parties perceives its perspective as the only one laying the foundation of reconciliation and unity and each side accuses the other of causing disunity.

Unity has nothing to do with all of us wanting the best path forward for America. Even members of the KKK want what they think is best for America. But we are not in unity with the KKK because we have a different vision for a better America. I do not desire unity with the KKK when it comes to issues of racial prejudice and civil rights.

Unity is just cheap talk about achieving peace when people aren't interested in making the necessary sacrifices to achieve peace like exhibit self control, forgiving others, or work toward compromise.

All politicians say the same thing:
"There can be no peace without unity" - Bashar al-Assad
"Without unity, there is no peace" - Joe Biden at today's inauguration
“Let us choose to move forward unified, for the good of our families, our communities, and our country" - Donald Trump

Here's what you're missing. If you actually listened to what Biden said, he explained clearly that unity was not agreeing about everything. It was not seeing your political opponents as you enemy.

You parsed a single statement from Trump and not his overall message. Would you like to see MANY statements where he used division and hate to divide America? To claim that the press, the Democrats and even pretty much every Republican who dared to speak out against him or disagree with him was an enemy? Because there is one helluva lot of them. Here's just a taste of it leading up to and including Jan. 6th....

At a Georgia rally Jan. 4, Trump told supporters “we’re going to take what they did to us on Nov. 3. We’re going to take it back.”

In his speech before the riot, Trump praised supporters for showing up to “save our democracy.” He told supporters “we’re going to walk down to the Capitol ... You have to show strength, and you have to be strong.”

Dec. 26: Trump tweeted: "The ‘Justice’ Department and the FBI have done nothing about the 2020 Presidential Election Voter Fraud, the biggest SCAM in our nation’s history, despite overwhelming evidence. They should be ashamed. History will remember. Never give up. See everyone in D.C. on January 6th."

Jan. 4: At a rally in Georgia the day before the Senate runoffs, Trump repeated his grievances about his own election. He spoke about a continued fight, both for himself and the Senate.

"If the liberal Democrats take the Senate and the White House — and they’re not taking this White House — we’re going to fight like hell, I’ll tell you right now," Trump said.

"We’re going to take it back," Trump said.

Let's continue shall we?

"Our radical Democrat opponents are driven by hatred, prejudice and rage," he said, pointing to House efforts to investigate his 2016 campaign's ties to Russia and possible obstruction of justice by the president. "They want to destroy you and they want to destroy our country as we know it. Not acceptable, it’s not going to happen. Not going to happen."

Somehow you have trouble seeing the difference here. Somehow you think to parce bits and pieces tells a story. It doesn't. Trump has been going around for years now not standing on policy, not trying to show why his plans are better for America, but instead trying to portray anyone who isn't a blind follower of his as an enemy of our country.

If you can't see that I can't help you. Let's look at more than a single line from Biden to draw some clarity here. Something you either overlooked or ignored in your effort to claim that unity is only intended to be under one parties terms.

"And so today, at this time and this place, let’s start afresh, all of us. Let’s begin to listen to one another again, hear one another, see one another, show respect to one another. Politics doesn’t have to be a raging fire, destroying everything in its path. Every disagreement doesn’t have to be a cause for total war. And we must reject the culture in which facts themselves are manipulated and even manufactured

It's obvious from this it's not about everyone agreeing or accepting things only on a certain set of terms. It plainly points out that there will still be disagreements. That we will have different ideologies. It's about not being divided to the point that we see everyone who disagrees with us as our enemy.

There was an excellent segment on NPR this morning on this myth that it's liberals cancelling/silencing the Right ... plenty of examples of how both 'sides' tend to do this to some extent, statistically it is not one side doing it more than another. Hope others may have heard it.

Interestingly - on the topic of Parler - the same interviewees / panel felt very strongly that eliminating an entire platform where a segment was promoting violence and sedition was troubling and something that shouldn't be allowed. Silence the individuals who promote violence - yes - but don't reduce all the other different opinions and voices.

Here is the odd part of her post. Trump cancels out every dissenting voice by claiming they are the enemy and fake news. It's no different at all than what they claim the other side is doing.

So she is saying Trump is a libtard?

Shhhh, don't tell her. She has no idea.

I agree with you on 99% of what you are saying, but I was not trying to make the point that Biden and Trump are exactly the same. I could make a list of 100 other politicians that have said similar clueless statements about unity. I was replying to the topic which was talking about unity amongst the people, not specific politicians. Remove Trump from the conversation, because I am not trying to defend him. My point is only that the word unity, despite the simple fact that "uni" means "one", the word seems to be misunderstood. Calls for unity are ineffective and pointless. Calling for unity is not the same as offering peace or encouraging non-violence. Calls for unity are nothing more than theater. It offers nothing and demands conformity from the opposition. In order to actually reconcile a conflict, there are really only two choices. You ether have to beat your enemy into submission or you have to seek a compromise that both sides can live with. Most politicians prefer the former for a variety of reasons. I suspect that the latter would be best for the people in 99% of situations.

So it's not actually the message Biden is trying to send you object to, but the verbiage used to express it?

Because I made it obvious that he described exactly what he meant and it's not that we should all agree. It's that we shouldn't see everyone who disagrees with us as our enemy.

Yes but if you point out that both sides are built on lies, half-truths, hyperbole, and a whopping dose of fear...

each side will immediately want to argue with you about why their brand of lies, half-truths, hyperbole, and fear isn't nearly as bad or dangerous as the other side..

Let's not pretend that the president of The United States promoting outright hatred and claiming people are stealing your country, are your enemy and you must fight to take your country back is an equal or opposite side here.

The months and months leading up to the election there was an article pretty much every day with some conspiracy theory about how Trump was trying to steal the election and how he could get away with it. Had he won, they had tons of articles out there to use as a foundation for how he stole the election from decommissioned mail sorting machines to closing poll centers to driving around removing mailboxes from poor neighborhoods... the ground work was all there for the big story of how Trump stole the election..

Then within hours of it looking like Biden won, the same media outlets were running stories on how safe and secure the election was and how it was "unstealable" and there couldn't have possibly been any fraud, that any attempt to question the integrity of the election was just stupid..

It really is kind of funny how people have memories that are about " " that long.

So you have zero examples of any top, leading Democratic officials promoting violence to overthrow a democratically ran election. You now are taking the fact that it was top republican elections officials in some of these states that said there was no wide spread voter fraud and attributing it to democrats. You make it sound like math is false. When you have less counting machines at post offices, less mail can be counted. Of course the timing of that would be questioned, it's math.

The only thing you seem to be able to come up with is what the media said. Yet I don't hear you say a word about what the other side of the media said.

And in case you missed it, the media isn't the President of The United States. It's not the people in congress and the senate. They are not people who swore to uphold the constitution as they were undermining it.

You have substituted the leader of the free world and our politicians in exchange for the press in a bait and switch con game to avoid the fact that it was the actual people who were elected to represent them advocating some wild conspiracy theories that led to where we are now.

Those are not the same thing.

So basically that was a long winded, Daman answer of "Prove it".

Unlike some people, most believe just blabbering out vomit doesn't provide evidence of anything.

But then coming from the crowd who believes this country was stolen from them based on falsehoods, conspiracies and zero evidence, I don't find your response surprising.

I have provided many quotes to substantiate things Republican officials have said only to incite people to anger. To claim anyone that doesn't agree with them are an enemy to the country. How the election was stolen from them. How democracy was stolen from them.

And now you expect others to be able to make unsubstantiated claims. Can't say I'm surprised. Accountability hasn't been a strong suit coming from the side that makes the false claim that's one of the very principals they stand for since trump came along.

The left doesn't need anyone in charge calling for violence. They do it all on their own.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/anti-biden-antifa-portland-police

Thanks for helping make my point.

“United” States. Living in unity. Imagine?

In October 2017, Rep. Maxine Waters said, “I will go and take Trump out tonight

In August 2017, Sen. Maria Chappelle-Nadal said, “I hope Trump is assassinated!

"Merciful heavens, I do declare!"...

...he said, while clutching tightly to his simple, classic strand of pearls.

While Trump instructed "his supporters" to knock people out at his rallies and said he would pay their legal bills. It seems there's some confusion about someone making a statement concerning their personal actions and working your entire base into a frenzy.

jc

The republicans clearly want unity


Republican Marjorie Taylor Greene files articles of impeachment against Joe Biden
Graeme Massie
Thu, January 21, 2021, 4:32 PM EST


https://www.yahoo.com/news/republican-marjorie-taylor-greene-files-213258442.html

She’s just being salty because she’s catching heat from her own party since the riots. Out here doubling down on the crazy. I thought that one dem who tried to impeach trump in 2017 was a snowflake.

Apparently the GOP doesn’t like being out done.

Crazy QAnon Karen over here...

Where do you dig this stuff up? Why are people posting drunken rants on YouTube?

What is wrong with this woman and why does fish think her angry crazy rant strengthens his arguments

j/c...



Self-styled militia members planned on storming the U.S. Capitol days in advance of Jan. 6 attack, court documents say
By Spencer S. Hsu, Tom Jackman and Devlin Barrett
Jan. 19, 2021 at 8:28 p.m. EST

Self-styled militia members from Virginia, Ohio and other states made plans to storm the U.S. Capitol days in advance of the Jan. 6 attack, and then communicated in real time as they breached the building on opposite sides and talked about hunting for lawmakers, according to court documents filed Tuesday.

While authorities have charged more than 100 individuals in the riot, details in the new allegations against three U.S. military veterans offer a disturbing look at what they allegedly said to one another before, during and after the attack — statements that indicate a degree of preparation and determination to rush deep into the halls and tunnels of Congress to make “citizens’ arrests” of elected officials.

U.S. authorities charged an apparent leader of the Oath Keepers extremist group, Thomas Edward Caldwell, 66, of Berryville, Va., in the attack, alleging that the Navy veteran helped organize a ring of dozens who coordinated their movements as they “stormed the castle” to disrupt the confirmation of President-elect Joe Biden’s electoral college victory.

“We have about 30-40 of us. We are sticking together and sticking to the plan,” co-defendant Jessica Watkins, 38, an Army veteran, said while the breach was underway, according to court documents.

“You are executing citizen’s arrest. Arrest this assembly, we have probable cause for acts of treason, election fraud,” a man replied, according to audio recordings of communications between Watkins and others during the incursion.

“We are in the main dome right now. We are rocking it. They are throwing grenades, they are fricking shooting people with paint balls. But we are in here,” a woman believed to be Watkins said, according to court documents.

A man then responds, “Get it, Jess,” adding, “This is . . . everything we f---ing trained for!”

The FBI said it recovered the exchange from Zello, a push-to-talk, two-way radio phone app.

FBI charging papers against Caldwell, Watkins and a third person, former U.S. Marine Donovan Crowl, 50, allege that Caldwell and others coordinated in advance to disrupt Congress, scouted for lodging and recruited Oath Keepers members from North Carolina and like-minded groups from the Shenandoah Valley. The group claims thousands of members who assert the right to defy government orders they deem improper. The plotters both anticipated violence and continued to act in concert after the break-in, investigators alleged in court documents. FBI papers also say that Caldwell suggested a similar event at the local level after the attack, saying in a message: “Lets storm the capitol in Ohio. Tell me when!”

The three are charged with five federal counts of conspiracy against the United States; obstructing an official government proceeding; impeding or injuring government officers; and destroying U.S. property, entering restricted grounds and disorderly conduct at the Capitol.

Attempts to reach attorneys for Caldwell, Watkins and Crowl have been unsuccessful. No one immediately responded to messages left at numbers connected to Caldwell.

Watkins, of Woodstock, Ohio, told the Ohio Capital Journal last week that she formed a group known as the Ohio State Regular Militia in 2019 and that it had patrolled 12 protests to “protect people” on both sides. She said she had served a tour in Afghanistan while in the Army. She also said she was a member of the Oath Keepers.

“I didn’t commit a crime. I didn’t destroy anything. I didn’t wreck anything,” Watkins said to the Journal, adding that the riot was a peaceful protest that turned violent.

Crowl’s mother, Teresa Rowe, said she was appalled to see pictures of him in the Capitol. She said he had become radicalized after leaving the Marine Corps.

“I wish I could tell people what happened to him, but I don’t know,” Rowe said.

The arrests this weekend of several people with alleged ties to far-right extremist groups, including the Oath Keepers, the Proud Boys and the Three Percenters, suggest that the riot was not an entirely impulsive outburst of violence but an event instigated or exploited by organized groups. Hours of video posted on social media and pored over by investigators have focused on individuals in military-style gear moving together.

“This is the first step toward identifying and understanding that there was some type of concerted conspiracy here,” said one senior official with the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the District of Columbia, which is leading the investigation.

“Whether everyone else just happened to be there and got caught up in the moment, or if this is just the tip of the iceberg, how much this will grow at this point I can’t tell you, but we are continuing to investigate aggressively,” according to the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss a pending investigation.

In charging papers, the FBI said that during the Capitol riot, Caldwell received Facebook messages from unspecified senders updating him of the location of lawmakers. When he posted a one-word message, “Inside,” he received exhortations and directions describing tunnels, doors and hallways, the FBI said.

Some messages, according to the FBI, included, “Tom all legislators are down in the Tunnels 3floors down,” and “Go through back house chamber doors facing N left down hallway down steps.” Another message read: “All members are in the tunnels under capital seal them in. Turn on gas,” the FBI added.

Other arrests Tuesday also underscored law enforcement’s concerns about threats to elected leaders, particularly because so many of the participants in the Jan. 6 chaos are still unidentified.

In New York, a Queens man who worked in the state court system was accused Tuesday of making threats to murder Democratic politicians, including suggesting another attack on the Capitol timed to Biden’s inauguration. The man was not at the riot on Jan. 6 but made threatening remarks about Democratic politicians beforehand that intensified in a video he posted two days later, which was titled “KILL YOUR SENATORS.” In the video, he encourages people to return to the Capitol and take up arms.

“If anybody has a gun, give it to me, I’ll go there myself and shoot them and kill them,” the man said, according to the FBI.

In Caldwell’s charging papers, the FBI said that it is reviewing communications between Cald­well “and other known and unknown Oath Keepers members.”

An FBI agent in court records said Caldwell helped organize a group of eight to 10 individuals led by Watkins. Members of the group are seen on video wearing helmets and military-style gear, and moving purposefully toward the top of the Capitol steps and leading the move against police lines, court records said.

A search of Watkins’s home in Ohio found numerous firearms, cellphones, pepper spray, a radio, a bag with a helmet and respirators, paintball guns, pool cues cut down to baton size, and zip/cable ties, as well a camouflage hat and jackets, the FBI said.

The FBI said without elaboration that it also recovered a document titled “Making Plastic Explosives from Bleach,” redacting the instructions in a photo exhibit.

According to a 23-page affidavit, Caldwell in Facebook messages said he scouted lodging for Watkins and others, starting at a Comfort Inn in Ballston, Va., about eight miles from the Capitol, that “would allow us to go hunting at night if we wanted to.”

In an apparent reference to Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes, Caldwell wrote Jan. 1: “I don’t know if Stewie has even gotten out his call to arms, but it’s a little friggin late. This is one we are doing on our own. We will link up with the north carolina crew.”

Meanwhile, the group was making contingency plans and focused on security, the FBI said. Caldwell said he would probably “do pre-strike on the 5th” and expected a man named Paul “will have the goodies in case things go bad and we need to get heavy.”

“Keep eyes on people with Red MAGA hats worn backward. Saw a report that they were going to infiltrate crowd tomorrow,” Crowl was warned Jan. 5 in another Facebook message, as he prepared for what he called an “Oathkeepers op,” court documents said.

“Thanks Brother, but we are WAY ahead on that. We have infiltrators in Their ranks. We are doing the W.H. in the am and early afternoon, rest up at the Hotel, then headed back out tomorrow night ‘tifa’ hunt’in. We expect good hunting,” Crowl responded, in an apparent reference to antifa counterdemonstrators, the FBI said.

At some point on the day of the riot, Watkins posted to the social media site Parler a photograph of herself in uniform, writing: “Me before forcing entry into the Capitol Building. #stopthesteal #stormthecapitol #oathkeepers #ohiomilitia,” the FBI said. She added a photo of Crowl in paramilitary gear and an Oath Keepers patch as “one of my guys,” and the pair allegedly took a selfie in video recorded in the Capitol Rotunda, the FBI said.

Caldwell also posted a message after the riot, court documents said: “Us storming the castle. Please share. . . . I am such an instigator!”

“Proud boys scuffled with cops and drove them inside to hide. Breached the doors. One guy made it all the way to the house floor, another to Pelosi’s office. A good time,” Caldwell added, according to the FBI.

In a Jan. 8 message to Crowl, the FBI said Caldwell added, “We stormed the gates of corruption together (although on opposite sides of the building) so between that and our first meeting and getting to know you since I can say we will always be brothers!”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/leg...819d_story.html

Fish really likes to post things without actually getting what they are.

For months he posted articles from dubious sources that cited election fraud theories straight from QAnon.

Priceless coming from you.

Now, go on and throw out big fancy words to make you feel superior.

This woman is just expressing her opinion on Biden's speech from yesterday. She's not calling for the re-education of
Trump supporters or shock therapy and straight jackets for those that voted for Trump as seen on this board.

Evidently, you've never seen Keith Olbermann or TYT posting rants about Trump and his supporters on YouTube.

There’s Bat Poop Crazy and then there’s that lady.

Holy hell... are we not going to talk about this article??? Who are the inside sources I wonder. Capitol police?

Those quotes from the FBI charges are nuts. This will be quite the story to watch unfold.

This is......

Wow.

I’m actually at a loss for words. That’s simply frightening to read.

You get the point... 80 million of these-