DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Defense... Wdwgfh? Part 2

An ode to eotab’s long-lived thread.

Please discuss. Wanted to start with saying there’s no guarantee with Greedy OR Delpit. Gotta look at secondary options.

Wdwgfh.

Where do we go from here.

Took me way too long to figure that out.

I said in the other thread, but drafting Collins from Tulsa is my dream draft scenario

I had to buy a vowel.

Thought it was Scrabble Hell LOL.

I am still seeking starting competition in our secondary. Depth must be a consideration when two key starters miss a full season. And I still want an absolute sledge LB in our middle.

Absolutely.

Can never have enough quality DBs. Ward misses time, not sure if Delpit can return and be what we expected when we drafted him. If Granny Williams plays for us again it will be a bonus, I would plan as if he is gone.

As much as I would like a LB such as David or Jack (both last names) I don't see it. Does Woods devalue LBs because we don't have good ones? Or do we not have good ones because Woods devalues them?

I thought Smith was our best LB. The most consistent, at least. Goodson was OK, but slow. Philips showed speed, but not much else. Maybe he can improve. Taki had the nice picks and a couple of games where he played well, but in the KC game he went back to missing tackles and trailing plays. Maybe that is what he is and the good games were outliers. It's a bad thing when Wilson gets significant snaps; he is completely lost out there.

#1 wish - stud MLB who can play 3 downs and covers sideline to sideline. Assuming we can't find one in F.A... then pull the trigger round 1 in the draft. I loved Patrick Queen last year ... whichever draft prospect is most like him this year is who I want. I would move up to get him too rather than reach for a less talented player at #26.

I don't think he devalues them at all, per se. I think the scheme is just one that isn't designed around them. It's allowed to be the weak link as long as the other two groups - front four and secondary - are strong. Well, the best players in our front four missed significant time this year and our secondary was a constant rotation.

If we look at the 49ers defense from a couple of years ago, they had REALLY good LBer play. This past season they were without Kwon Alexander and Malcolm Smith (who we have).... but, more importantly, they were without Dee Ford, Nick Bosa, Soloman Thomas, and Deforest Buckner. Also, Arik Armstead moved from being the backup DT to a starting DE spot. They also lost Richard Sherman and Jaquiski Tartt in the secondary.

So, when we look at how this defense was ran the year they were really good, they had a TON of top talent up front and in back.... and they got pretty good linebacker play in between. This year, between free agency poaching and injuries, their DLine and secondary are a mere shell of what they were... and their performance reflected it.


So, to come full circle here, all of that was to say that I don't think LB is "devalued" as much as it is just not where you NEED to hit a home run on talent acquisition. You need to get pressure and you need to defend the pass... after that, you need rangy LBers that can fill gaps and defend a TE, and while it certainly helps if they are All-Pro, as long as you have enough talent in front and behind, they don't have to be.

boy, I wish I was as confident in Wilson as you are haha. I think he sucks (along with the other LBs).

Goodson and Taki are OK in run D ... but pass D is a nightmare across the board

can't have Taki in coverage, he is too slow. Wilson is horrible, I thought he would be good. Phillips is a good player, a good tackler. He is someone to build around.

We have got to get another good CB, and a true free safety. I am looking at this with the thought of no Williams and a slowed down Delpit. With Harrison and Joseph, SS is okay.

On the Dline, Billings will help, but he is not that young. I think Larry will be gone. We need a consistent edge rusher opposite Garrett. I hope they don't go down the Clowney road, dude always has some kind of issue.Elliot is young and showed some decent play, and this Taylor dude showed up.

All in all, I think the upgrades at LB, if there is any, would help the most, along with a dependable corner with speed.

Agreed. We need depth at CB because while Denzel and Greedy would make a great duo they are not dependable. I see us needing a good 5 new players on D along with a couple for depth and rotation.

We definitely need CB depth - even a starter to make anything we have now the depth, but this defense goes nowhere without the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse up front.

At a minimum, our priorities are DE and DT, followed by CB, then LB.

Half the NFL's CB's are free agents in March, it seems, so we should be able to fix that spot a wee bit. There are quite a few DE's & DT's hitting the market, too; even some young talent.

So, I would not be surprised at all to see us sign at least one free agent in each position group. If we make a "splash", I'd expect it to be at DE or DT.

I definitely would not rule out us making a trade with a rebuilding team or a team in Cap Hell.

This is an old piece, but applicable.

Clinton Deploys Vowels to Bosnia
(originally appeared in The Onion, Number One In News)
Cities of Sjlbvdnzv, Grzny to Be First Recipients

Before an emergency joint session of Congress yesterday, President Clinton announced US plans to deploy over 75,000 vowels to the war-torn region of Bosnia. The deployment, the largest of its kind in American history, will provide the region with the critically needed letters A,E,I,O and U, and is hoped to render countless Bosnian names more pronounceable.

"For six years, we have stood by while names like Ygrjvslhv and Tzlynhr and Glrm have been horribly butchered by millions around the world," Clinton said. "Today, the United States must finally stand up and say 'Enough.' It is time the people of Bosnia finally had some vowels in their incomprehensible words. The US is proud to lead the crusade in this noble endeavour."

The deployment, dubbed Operation Vowel Storm by the State Department, is set for early next week, with the Adriatic port cities of Sjlbvdnzv and Grzny slated to be the first recipients. Two C-130 transport planes, each carrying over 500 24-count boxes of "E's," will fly from Andrews Air Force Base across the Atlantic and airdrop the letters over the cities.

Citizens of Grzny and Sjlbvdnzv eagerly await the arrival of the vowels. "My God, I do not think we can last another day," Trszg Grzdnjkln, 44, said. "I have six children and none of them has a name that is understandable to me or to anyone else. Mr. Clinton, please send my poor, wretched family just one 'E.' Please."

Said Sjlbvdnzv resident Grg Hmphrs, 67: "With just a few key letters, I could be George Humphries. This is my dream."

The airdrop represents the largest deployment of any letter to a foreign country since 1984. During the summer of that year, the US shipped 92,000 consonants to Ethiopia, providing cities like Ouaouoaua, Eaoiiuae, and Aao with vital, life-giving supplies of L's, S's and T's.

Doing this shores up what we have - after we identify who we're retaining and re-sign them - and then allows us to have the Draft come to us. Make a Venn diagram ofBPA and NEED. Whichever player falls down the board and fits best into both categories will be our pick.

Venn Diagram - LOL.

Bud Dupree might be a good pick-up for us. Plus it weakens a hated division rival.

I think Joseph is a free agent

Who knows. Maybe we'll get lucky and a top prospect will get pulled over with something under their passenger seat or whathaveyou.

I would resign him.

so would I.

If Delpit comes back healthy, that is a question, I believe he is a true FS. With Harrison and Joseph, Woods can play his style of D.

A torn Achilles tendon is a really bad injury for a position that requires speed, leaping ability, and explosion to a spot. It might be overly optimistic to think Delpit will be what he once was in terms of physical abilities, at least right away. The Browns should probably be thinking of a Plan B at FS.

j/c

Anyone have insight on Phillips’s play this year? I’m always watching the ball....

Or Greedy’s nerve issue? By that I mean, what kind of nerve damage would cause a guy to miss a full year?

Re: Zaven Collins from Tulsa


I like this kid.. shoots the gaps well, and can tackle well in open field. which is what is needed in the MLB slot for this team.

This goes as well for Vernon also.

he was a pretty big liability most of the time I saw his grades/evaluations (obviously those are all up for debate). I’d say he isn’t good lol. But, just a rookie

my #1 wish for the offseason

Vernon won't be back.
He is a free agent in March, and with his injury, unless we're wanting to play fairy godmother, we won't be offering him a new contract. Someone else will be lining up opposite Myles next August.

I can get behind Zavan Collins. He has really good closing speed. It also looks like he has pretty good instincts.

What I liked about this highlight video is that most of the highlights were against top 25 teams. Way too often highlight videos are mostly against directional schools.

What I would have liked to see more of in the video is highlights of him filling

As a general statement, I wish someone would post lowlight videos for all these players. I've seen there best, now let me see their worst. I understand why no one makes those.

Additionally, I wish we had access to player interviews.

I love the 1st highlight and have visions of him doing this to Lamar.

That guy just jumps off the film. Impressive, but my one question is "level of competition". Would he still pop against a Clemson, OSU, or Alabama? Lots of great plays in there, but none of them against particularly strong teams.

One thing is for certain, that doesn't care about the competition, is that he appears to play smart.

I have read good things about Bolton in a few mock drafts. Have not watched any tape on him or any other draft prospect yet.

- Smart, aware, disciplined and in control based on those highlights. Looks to have enough size and is fast.

j/c:

There is seemingly a bunch of really good LBs at the top of the draft, but if we are looking at defense, the pass rush to me still needs to be a priority.

Sure, BPA/Value/Whatever you want to call it will be a factor with who is available and what our plans are in FA, but all things being equal I hope the Browns take a serious look at edge rushers to upgrade over Vernon and depth.

The one thing Depit has going for him is that he's young. If he works hard at rehab he should be OK in time. It may take awhile.

I’d agree ... if he lasts past 20 I’ll be surprised

Good article on Joe Woods, Myles Garrett, and the make-shift defense we trotted out in 2020...


What did we learn about the Browns’ defense this season and what does it means for next year?
By Ellis L. Williams, cleveland.com


CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Browns defense probably deserves more credit than it’s getting considering all coordinator Joe Woods overcame in 2020.

Virtual offseason craziness aside, Woods commanded a unit that lost its second-round rookie safety and its first selection from 2019 before Week 1 began. Purposely cheap at linebacker, the Browns counted on creating pressure with four linemen and playing excellent back-end coverage.

Without Greedy Williams, No. 3 corner Terrance Mitchell stepped up by playing more snaps than any other Browns defender (1,225). It seems fitting safety Andrew Sendejo played the second most (999 snaps). Browns fans wanted him off the field all season, but that’s what happens when injuries strike. Instead of a dynamic rookie safety and a budding second-year corner, Woods deployed two veterans, one with plenty of quality football ahead of him and the other ripe for retirement.

Mitchell played well in 2020. Pro Football Focus rated him a 68.2 overall, 57th among qualified corners. He’s earned another contract either in Cleveland or elsewhere.

But everything that is right about Mitchell mirrors precisely what was wrong with the Browns defense. Mitchell proved reliable but not a difference-maker. He did his job well but didn’t perform surprisingly above expectation. Think about the jump or “level-up” that guard Wyatt Teller made. Cleveland desperately craved a defensive guy evolving into a game-changer, besides just Myles Garrett.

Cleveland’s defense finished 19th against the run and 25th versus the pass according to Football Outsiders’ DVOA, a stat that measures a team’s efficiency by comparing success on every single play to a league average based on situation and opponent.

Despite the unfavorable metrics, the Browns made their impact by forcing turnovers. Cleveland forced 21 takeaways and finished plus-five in turnover differential (ninth-best).

Last week I highlighted what positions the Browns must address in the 2021 draft. Spoiler alert: The top two spots are on defense. As critical as this may sound, there are several positives worth building upon.

Let’s highlight the two main things we learned about Cleveland’s defense and what it means for this unit going forward.


Myles Garrett is the next Aaron Donald

For years it’s been universally accepted that Rams defensive lineman Aaron Donald is the best non-quarterback in football. Regardless of metric, Donald repeatedly proved superior to his peers by dominating offenses despite double- and triple-teams.




The above chart only includes defensive tackles. Below is the same metric but for defensive ends.





I wish the chart included all defensive linemen. If it did, we’d see Donald, Garrett and Steelers edge rusher T.J. Watt separate as the top-tier pass rushers. Donald is double-teamed nearly three times as often as Garrett, but that’s because one plays predominately inside versus centers and guards.

All three win at impressive rates. Garrett was doubled 10% more often than Watt and created 16 sacks, including his season-total of 13. Watt finished with 15 sacks and Donald won his fourth defensive player of the year award.

But Garrett topped both in a metric founded by Brandon Thorn known as True Sack Rate or TSR. For an explanation on TSR, click here. Despite only playing 70% of snaps, Garrett finished with a 15.25 sack score, nearly four points higher than Watt. My colleague Doug Lesmerises interviewed Thorn a month ago and he crowned Garrett the next great pass rusher then. I’m here to agree with him.

Which is why it’s all the more important Browns GM Andrew Berry accurately identifies a worthy running mate at end opposite Garrett. Olivier Vernon almost filled that role but won’t be an option coming off a torn Achilles. Veteran Adrian Clayborn is a role player better served in small doses. He played poorly against the Chiefs and it cost the Browns dearly.

This season Garrett declared “he got next.” He started the season on a tear, recording nine sacks and four forced fumbles in eight games. Then Garrett caught COVID-19 and didn’t look the same after his return. With a full offseason and hopefully no 2021 bad breaks, Garrett should be the favorite for Defensive Player of the Year.


Joe Woods deserves credit and a healthy depth chart

Remember, Terrance Mitchell led the Browns in snaps played. Back during training camp, I’m certain that wasn’t the plan Woods and Kevin Stefanski formulated. But injuries and the unforeseen happen in this league. Often it’s how a coach adjusts to chaos that indicates whether he is NFL quality or not.

Thinking back to our final postgame pod of the season, I remember fans calling for Woods to be fired. I wrote it off as an emotional kickback from a tough defeat, and hopefully, that was all it was. Because let’s be clear, the Browns have zero business moving on from Woods and won’t.

He’s a 17-year NFL coach who coordinated an excellent pass defense in San Francisco. At times, he showed flashes of what his full-strength defense could be capable of. Here an example of a call he made versus the Chiefs that forced a Kansas City field goal.

On third down, the Chiefs needed 10 yards to earn a first and reach the red zone. Woods made a gutsy call to blitz Mahomes by sending an overload to his right side. Notice safety Sendejo (23) scream toward the line of scrimmage and work for Mahomes. Then safety Ronnie Harrison (33) bails into coverage to replace Sendejo.

The call is mainly for the Browns’ right defensive end, who happens to be Clayborn here. Instead of rush off the edge, he bails into coverage. It’s the perfect call because Kansas City has a screen called to his side. Clayborn does an excellent job first gaining depth and then attacking when he recognizes screen.




This is an example of what Woods can be as a defensive play-caller. He made a well-timed call that forced the Chiefs to kick (and make) a 50-yard field goal. That’s a major win for any defense. He did this without the roster he originally planned for.

The Browns must allocate resources to the defense like they did Stefnaski’s offense a year. If they do, Woods will have every opportunity to prove himself as an upper-echelon coach next season.


What we learned

The Browns’ offense will remain their strength for at least the next few seasons. With the best offensive line in football, a growing quarterback and weapons galore, Cleveland plans on winning shootouts. But their best player resides on defense.

Next season, I expect this unit to take a major leap forward. And when that happens, it will because Garrett broke a sack record and Cleveland’s defense stayed healthy enough for Woods to install his comprehensive gameplan.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/01...-next-year.html

There was too much upheaval on D this past year. Hell, we had too much on O to at the end but D was more. Joe Woods is a good DC. I feel he knows what he is doing and an asset to our coaching staff. Give him 3 or 4 new players and some stability and I think we could be a top 10-12 D next year. JMO