DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2020 NFL Season NFL 2020 Post Season Super Bowl Gameday - Bucs vs Chiefs

As usual - Wrongo.

What is "GC."?

Is it shorthand for "Go Chiefs"?

Gamma Chi? Is it your old college fraternity?

Good cheese?

Jeez, you guys and your acronyms. I mean, GTFOH with that stuff.

I ended up being able to watch and here's my takeaway as it relates to the Browns and our defense:

Build up that DLine, bolster that secondary, and get at least one LB with some speed that can cover a TE (and some space).


The offense we have with a defense like the Bucs showcased in the post-season will go very, very far every year.

j/c

Mahommes was exposed last night...finally...it eventually happens to everyone...and now the great PM will have to adjust. The Bucs kept PM in the pocket and all-but-eliminated the scramble drill BS that makes up 80% of his highlight film and the did-you-see-that-throwing-angle gasps from the smitten announcer(s).

Things of note:

Did PM ever simply throw the ball away? After seeing that nothing was open? He forced himself into several desperation heaves by not learning to sometimes simply throw it away.

Did PM see any part of the field (from the pocket) other than over-the-middle or the swing/dump-off pass? He's great at that in the scramble drill. But from the pocket? He went through his progressions like butter...Kelce over the middle? No? Then dump it off.

Did PM make ONE...just ONE...plus level throw from the pocket yesterday?

Where is the pocket presence? The slight movements and adjustments to climb the pocket? Not the bail-from-the-pocket scramble drill...the stand tall in the pocket and find the open guy play?

Where was a drive - even just one - where he "put the team on his shoulders" and willed his way to the endzone?

PM will be a very-good to great player in the league...but he's had as charmed an NFL beginning as one could make up...and he's been anointed as a completed, franchise, top 5 guy after his first two years in the league. He faced adversity in a game for the first time in his career last night...and he was overwhelmed and didn't have the mental game that was required to push through it. The recently-great Andy Reid also had no answer.

I know...I know...it's blasphemy to suggest that PM is anything but the greatest thing since a fax machine...and I am admittedly salty that one guy comes in the league charmed and loved while my guy comes into a 1-31 team with Hue Jackson as his HC and is unjustly vilified and critiqued from the get-go...but those facts don't dispute anything I stated above about PM and his actual performance last night.

Anyone have video of that would be interception?

I'm almost sure it didn't hit the ground. They reviewed it once and said that might not have hit the ground and romo said that definitely hit the ground but we never saw another replay.

I guess it didn't really "matter" because it was late in the game and it was pretty much over then and the Bucs actually intercepted the ball a few plays later.

It's just funny to me how they try to dictate our feelings about a certain play.

I don't have video, but I'm nearly certain that never hit the ground.

How do you hate the Muppets?

Your post won't age well. As a matter of fact, it doesn't present well now.

You take an example of a QB with both of his OT's out of the game as something to hang your hat on.

Nah, you're just salty.

Exactly. Patrick was not "exposed". It was very simple. His 2 starting OT were out so the Bucs were able to put a lot of heat on him. Since day one the best D against the pass is putting pressure on the QB. Case closed. We all know what putting pressure on the QB does. It was true in the days of Sid Luckman and it's true today. No matter how great the QB is if he's constantly running for his life and the timing is disrupted he won't play well. It's no secret.

Do you not see the irony there? You're saying that he is not the best qb in NFL history BECAUSE he took a team to the Superbowl TEN times but didn't put up huge numbers?

His stats might not be out of this world in those games, but he won most of them. He was about as dialed in as you can get last night.

So...you cannot refute a single point I made...and I am salty....FYI...

Their starting LT went out for the season in Week 5...their starting RT went out for the season in week 6...they lost - essentially - ONE game the entire year. They managed just fine at OT those last 10 regular season games and two playoff wins...when PM WAS able to do the things he was UNABLE to do last night. What changed? The Bucs kept him in the pocket and ended the scramble drill...PM had no answer...he was exposed...he's got some work to do when his receivers aren't running around wide open.

There are many Browns fans (not saying that's you) - even on this board - and many talking heads who weren't able to understand/state what pressure was doing to Baker...he was anointed a fraud. 60% of his opening day 2019 OL were replaced by opening day 2020...yet he was "exposed" for post-snap reads...he had to figure it out...and he did.

PM has never NOT been on a playoff caliber team...he's always played under Andy Reid...he sat behind an All-Pro QB for his rookie year (less ONE game)...he was anointed as a great one from the jump...he has the league's best TE and the most-difficult-to-cover WR in the game...and he couldn't get the ball in the endzone even one time. The Bucs figured him out...he has to adapt...something he hasn't yet been faced-with in the NFL. I think he will figure it out...but the charm turned into adversity last night and he had no answer.

You obviously didn't watch the same game I did. Mahomes scrambled out of the pocket all day. Yes he was under pressure but even made some pretty accurate passes off balance many times. Maybe you were too busy with the food and watching the commercials to pay attention?

According to Google:

When used online the abbreviation GC most commonly means "Group Chat." However, GC has a number of other meanings, including "Good Condition," "Good Call," "Gay Couple" and "Garbage Collect."

When I think back to that Doordash commercial I realize that it was about Sesame Street, which may or may not be the same thing as Muppets. No matter, I hate them both. I don't find them charming, funny, or cute, I think they're stupid, much like puppet shows, clowns, and mimes. There's no "why", I just do.

I wasn't one of those that knocked Baker. I understood our O-line was bad in "19 not to mention Freddies play calling stunk and he was basically on his 3rd system. That's why this past off season O-line was a priority for Andrew Berry and he did a great job solidifying it as was evident this season. He even did a great job with the back-ups and thank God because we all saw how much we needed them. Now MR. Berry has to turn his attention to the D. Let's hope he does the same good job there that he did with the O-line.

Well at your age you're not supposed o think they're all that and a bag of chips are you?

I am certain that you and I saw different games...I knew that from your first response.

Your OT excuse was quickly destroyed so you moved on to another.

Do you understand the difference between 'scrambling' and the success PM typically enjoys from the scramble DRILL? Do you know there is another word there?

How many touchdowns did PM create? How many times did he even reach the red zone? How many times did he "put the team on his back"? How many big plays did he sponsor - other than handing the ball off?

I saw a QB forced to play from the pocket (and with pressure) and unable to scramble DRILL around for his typical highlight play. His vision was limited to over-the-middle and the flat dump-off. That's what was evident on the game I watched.

He asked, I answered. It is true that I was an adult when they came along, but I'm pretty sure I would have hated them as a child. I grew up watching quality kids shows, like the 3 Stooges, the Little Rascals, and cartoons from Disney and Warner Bros. Now take your stupid Kermit the Frog stuffed toy and get off my lawn.

There are no "excuses" needed. Mahomes has been stellar as an NFL QB.

Taking by far his worst game of his NFL career and trying to make that a case with which to evaluate a QB is the excuse. It's pure BS and anyone who has watched him play very much knows it.

As is ALWAYS the case, trying to take away any larger career-defining point from a single game is a fool's errand.

Now, if other teams can take what we saw and replicate this and he never adapts, then a point can be made in hindsight that this is where he was exposed, but thus far it is nothing but an anomaly within a short career of stellar performance. He's shown time and again that he can beat pressure all day.... he just happened to face relentless pressure that was also able to take away both his top receiving threats; the Go-To's that always bail him out.

If you can't get pressure AND take away Tyreek Hill AND take away Travis Kelce AND stuff their run game, then you're going to struggle to replicate this. This wasn't Mahommes being exposed; it was an amazing Defensive effort shutting down every major aspect of the Chiefs offense all at once.

That is the obvious answer. You will rarely find a D that has the personnel required to pull this off. If anything I don't think KC's O was prepared to offset Tampa Bay's defense. I didn't see things like screen plays that would have offset heavy pressure and double coverages on their prime targets. But trying to break this down as some scathing indictment of Mahomes is a fools errand.

There wasn't much KC could do because they were getting all of that pressure with almost zero blitzing, so there was rarely anyone unaccounted for.



This is why my big takeaway from this game for us was DLINE, DLINE, LINEBACKERS, then Secondary and more DLINE.

They got incredible play from Devin White and Lavonte David inside; that, along with the crazy pressure their DLine brought all by its lonesome, was probably the single biggest factor. When KC hurts you, it is usually in or across the middle. It's Hill on a drag across the middle or Kelce up the seam.... those guys were taking those routes away all night long.

I agree that, while Tom Brady unsurprisingly won MVP, the real MVP was the Bucs defense.

They got consistent pressure with 4 and even when Mahomes was able to extend plays, the Bucs LBs and DBs were almost always in position to break up passes for no gain.. compared to the Browns where our LBs and DBs were always in position to make the tackle 12 yards downfield after allowing the catch.

I was impressed with the Bucs DL but I was equally impressed with the back-end of their defense.

Your ability to miss the point is legendary...second only to your ability to move the goal posts.

You brought up the OT "excuse".

I never ONCE said that Mahommes wasn't very, very good.

I never stated or implied that that ONE game is the basis for my (or any) evaluation of PM.

You are the one throwing BS at words that were never spoken. Which comes as a surprise to no one.

PM did not have an answer after his "game" was taken away from him. The truly great ones adjust and adapt when that happens...he's not great yet (even though you wouldn't know it when listening to the talking heads)...but he is very good.

You won't get this either...but...how many times this entire year was PM forced backwards from the pocket? Contained from stepping through or around? His choices were to throw it away or try and hero-ball. How many times did that happen last night? That defensive tactic wasn't by accident.

I'm not sure I agree with you. Need to think about it.

But I will say this. Two of Mahomes incompletions last night might be the two greatest plays I had ever seen in a game.

And like Baker, he's only going to get better.

What last night showed is the gap isn't that wide. And that's a good thing for us.

When you (KC) lose your starting tackles, and 2 of the best defensive players are defensive ends (JPP. Barrett), the outcome was not all that surprising.

I guess the bigger point is that there is only so much depth available. We saw the same thing with the Browns and Teller/Wills/etc, etc,.

Mahomes had do run around all night with only 4 pass rushers.

It reminded me of when the Giants took its to the undefeated Patriots.... The D-Line made Brady look pedestrian for one of the few times in his career.

Where does the Bucs defensive performance fall in SB history?

The only other two performances that compare are the '85 Bears an'00 Ravens.

Numbers:
'85 Bears surrendered 10 points, 12 first downs, 123 total yards, 6 turnovers, and 20:45 time of possession.

'00 Ravens surrendered 7 points, 13 first downs, 152 total yards, 5 turnovers, and 25:54 time of possession.

'20 Buccaneers surrendered 9 points, 22 first downs,350 total yards, 2 turnovers, and 28:37 time of possession.

I think it makes for good debate...I think the Bucs saw a weakness and really got after it. They had the horses to pull it off and I think the Chiefs didn't expect that at that level.

To your last two sentences...that is the by-product of my posts here. Baker had to learn to play from the pocket...even when the line wasn't playing so great. He had to stop looking for OBJ...he had to develop. I think he will only get better with the coaching he is now getting. His overcoming the dysfunction and not flaming out is remarkable.

Wow!

GC! for the purpose of DTMB Message board means it's a response just in general,
and not directed to the poster/boardmemeber that the response is responding to

the response can be in response to "dave" but it's not directed to be read by an addressing of "dave" but meant to be read just as a
General Comment, and it used to be most Board members got this,

and it became necessary because a select few used to get all (feeling hurt) if they couldn't tell the difference and thought the whole world was giving them a hard time.

There were a couple other versions, I can't remember what they were, either JC, or something similar.

How much of this is because the Chiefs Offense couldn't come up with any new ideas? or Find out how to protect the Quarterback with backup OL.

Now, is that on, Andy Reid?
Is that on Eric Bienemy? - and does that do a Big Dent into the prospect for success if anyone does decide to hire Bienemy as a Head Coach, when the media pressure
the media pressure, to hire Bienemy

the media pressure to give Bienemy a Head Coaching

Did anyone here anywhere that the media pressure is constantly

the media pressure, to Bienemy , needs to be a Head coach for some reason,

Or that he just couldn't get anything to work when he's got Patrick Mahomes, Travis Kelce, and Tyrick Hill on his team.
It was a highly, unproductive day for that offense, and I don't think it all falls on the Tampa Bay Defense.

Apparently the Browns are WAY ahead of the Chiefs in O-line depth.

And while we're at it, what does J/C mean? I see it all the time on this board.

If There is ever a list of the WORST SUPER BOWLS OF ALL TIME, How would that Super Bowl not be a good case for #1 on that list, if not easily top 4.

1. The Commercials were the worst in 40 years, period!

2. The Halftime show was not only the worst in probably all of Modern Super bowl history, but the Audio was clearly very broken, and they didn't stop to fix it.

3. There were no fans, 25,000 siting around card board cutouts, if life goes back to normal this can't be overlooked in a look back through time at 60-70 super bowls.

The Game!
The Officiating was, pretty bad, but not even in a memorable way, what can be more Qualifying for a Worst Super Bowl of all time than that,

1, the holing calls, 2 were bad, but they didn't amount to change much.
2. the Goal line stand, was a bad call, and it didn't amount to change the outcome either.
3. the Pass interference, when the two players feet got tangled up followed by the offensive player taking a dive, was a bad sportsmanship type of thing, (they've penalized taking a dive like that, in the sport of soccer) -- but it too didn't really effect outcomes

4. there was a missed call on a slap to the quarterbacks helmet, a no call, or (it probably was insignificant, but, in games that aren't the super bowl they've given those. And it may have helped the chiefs get a first half touchdown, but still didn't do much

The Play on the field

The Number of Drops of catchable balls combined from both teams and combined from defenses' dropping potential turnovers or offenses,
is 9 or more.

The running game, the Chiefs almost totally abandoned it start to finish, and thus the Buccaneers got the advantage while largly ignoring it for some drives too.

Both teams punted on at least one of their two opening drives.

It's the blanking Super Bowl! That Has to be one of the WORST SUPER BOWLS OF ALL TIME.

In fact,
I doubt anyone can say it was a compelling Super Bowl, if they don't include the rest of Brady's, or Gronks, or Mahomes, or Andy Reids, careers' from other years outside of this year.

So in a Vacuum, by itself, with no help from other years, this Super Bowl, by itself, may be AT LEAST, A TOP 4,
WORST SUPER BOWL GAME, so far.

Even the touchdowns came off drives, where the offense,(s), was or were basically check-down, mis direction, (SAFE) game, without taking any chances.

It may have been the Most Boring super bowl of all time too.

And it's overwhelming super star, Tom Brady,

What does this say, all, to me, that it says is, even after 10 appearences in the Super Bowl, Brady has yet to be superstar dominant, in any of them.

Probably, the most memorable moments, were replays of Tom Brady, and Honey Badger Tyrian Mathieu, chasing to get trash talk words in,
but what even became of that?
Nothing.

I'll let you argue with others who disagree with you. Which just so happens to be everyone who has responded to you.

Just clicking... e.g. I'm not replying directly to your post or anything specific said by you, I just clicked on it to reply in general.

Well when you consider that the Bears played a Patriots team that wasn't supposed to be that good and was QBed by Tony Eason.. and 3 of the Pats points came off an early fumble where they got a FG without getting a first down..

The Ravens played a team that went 7-9 in the regular season and was QBed by Kerry Collins and the only TD the Giants scored was a kick-off return for a TD.. (It was the 2001 Super bowl)

And the Bucs played the defending champions, QBed by the GOAT (in waiting, according to some) and they were supposed to be very good and went 14-2 in the regular season..

All 3 were great performances but I think a case can be made for the Bucs being in the conversation.

Muchas gracias. I think I'll put it in all my posts so no one ever gets offended by me.

Right, so you can offend everybody at the same time.

I wish "JC" was automatically "built-in" when people use the Quick Reply box at the bottom of the page.

If you click 'Quick Reply' on a specific post, it will show you as replying to that post, as it should.

If you just type in the box and hit Submit without clicking 'Quick Reply' on any specific post, it will show you as simply replying to the original post, as it should. This is because every post in a thread MUST be in reply to some other post in the thread; that's how it is built.

Since the person making the post knows if they are replying to a specific post or not, it's far simpler to just leave it to them to add their own "j/c".