If we decide to trade him and realize we can't get a 1st I wouldn't settle for anything less that 2 #2's.
Unless Berry is a negotiating genius, there is next to no way we are getting anything back close to what Dorsey forked over. I doubt two second rounders is realistic as well.
People need to realize his contract is a liability at this point in time and teams would be taking that on for 2021. That hinders the return IMO.
Overall his trade value isn't all that much at this point. We'd be selling low right now.
Well, Dorsey's back in play.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
Back to cap space ...... As far as the NFL overall .... given that this season sees a drop in the cap, I would bet that over the cap teams will be able to "borrow" some cap space from next year's cap in order to manage their cap.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
If that happens there is no reason to have a cap at all and it would break the collective bargaining agreement unless you could get the owners and players union to agree on terms to amend the contract. There would be zero incentive for the majority of owners to agree on this. Only the cap starved owners would want such a bailout.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Back to cap space ...... As far as the NFL overall .... given that this season sees a drop in the cap, I would bet that over the cap teams will be able to "borrow" some cap space from next year's cap in order to manage their cap.
I doubt this will be the case. If anything, it will expose those teams that wildly spend money or keep re-negotiating contracts ultimately kicking the cap responsibility further down the road to future years. Granted, this expected decreased cap dilemma will only be for 1-2 years before another cap celling hike most likely, but I don't see teams being allowed to borrow. This might amplify the problem further, IMO.
If anything, I think this will clearly benefit teams that will carry over significant cap space from the previous year. For those teams, there could be a lot of opportunity in the market where other teams are forced to cut players as a result of the decreased cap possibility. Those teams that were more judicious in their past spending might be able leverage future contracts of these players as they might be less due to cap constraints...or their salary for 2021, specifically, might be less if it's a long-term deal due to the cap (ex. Myles Garrett contract).
Some of this talk about cap is premature since the official cap number hasn't been decided yet. With almost every contracted player on the roster expected to get a raise in 2021 from 2020, a major cap cut (of 15% some say) would be very prohibitive to more than just 1-2 teams.
What I do think you're seeing currently is teams are evaluating the high paid contracts that are either out of line or over paid for the performance they are getting or injury issues. There was a big run on QB and RB contracts that teams now are also rethinking. If you have 20-25 percent of your cap tied to one player it makes running a winning team very difficult.
Back to cap space ...... As far as the NFL overall .... given that this season sees a drop in the cap, I would bet that over the cap teams will be able to "borrow" some cap space from next year's cap in order to manage their cap.
The owners would love to see the cap number decline, and stay that way. So the NFL would love to disagree with you
Back to cap space ...... As far as the NFL overall .... given that this season sees a drop in the cap, I would bet that over the cap teams will be able to "borrow" some cap space from next year's cap in order to manage their cap.
The owners would love to see the cap number decline, and stay that way. So the NFL would love to disagree with you
So, you're saying COVID was created by the NFL owners to force a decline in the cap?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
Borrowing money from future years seems a bit sketchy. I'm still expecting a 3-year dead cap spread (at least the dead cap is for players no longer on the teams).
A two year spread already exists (post June 1st designation) and the 2023 TV contracts will make it easier to absorb any necessary dead cap to get past 2021. That would also allow teams to explore trades of more valuable players as they could spread the escalated dead cap from traded players as well.
That's as far as I would like to see them go. Just my opinion, though.
People ask me what I do in spring when there's no football. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for fall
If someone gives us a third round pick for OBJ do we take it?
0% chance.
0.9999999999999999999999999% chance.
Was Russell Wilson originaly a 3rd round pick, (i.e. someone offers Russell Wilson straight up for OBJ)
(At this point one of the characters Eddie Murphy played in the barber shop part of the (1990 version of the) movie "coming to America" while talking about boxers and boxing, ended the scene saying Ahaa, ahaaa.)
They kinda already did this. They set a cap floor of $175M, and said they would borrow some cap from future years to make it work.
Now, it seems like they didn't lose as much money as expected, so the cap is supposedly going to be around $180-181M.
I can't see them allowing teams to choose how much cap they want to borrow. It would create too much of a competitive imbalance.
With the new 17 game schedule, extra playoff games, and new TV deals coming soon, the cap is set to explode in the coming years. It would be nice to use this lower-revenue year and spread the lower cap hit over 2-3 years to slowly "ramp-up" to the higher salary cap. This would prevent a situation like the NBA had where the salary cap grew alot in one year and allowed the Warriors to sign KD, throwing off the competitive balance of the league.
Just to clarify, I would think that they would come up with a one time advance on the cap, essentially borrowing a bit from 1 future cap in order to get/stay under the cap.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
The problem is a "one time" advance will have to be paid back. When that time comes another advance will be granted.
You have to understand that there are a lot of owners who don't want a cap and revenue sharing. Once the door is cracked, it will be the start down the road that MLB is on.
Jerry Jones isn't looking to "borrow" crap.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
No, that number has already been factored into the $22M we have to spend.
Technically, we are already about $8M over the $180M project for next year. Thankfully, we carried over $30M, giving us ample cap space to still make some moves.
This says we have 20m before adding the carryover.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
This says we have 20m before adding the carryover.
And that is referencing overthecap.com, so I'm inclined to believe that. This means that we are in FANTASTIC shape when it comes to signing Watt and retaining a bunch of our own guys.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
This says we have 20m before adding the carryover.
And that is referencing overthecap.com, so I'm inclined to believe that. This means that we are in FANTASTIC shape when it comes to signing Watt and retaining a bunch of our own guys.
Like I said, that is not correct. Our current top-51 payroll for 2021 is already $188.5M. This is shown by OverTheCap. Since we are currently $8.5M over a projected $180M salary cap, you subtract it from our $30M rollover to get about $21M in cap space that we can spend (we also have $500k in dead money this year that factors in).
So no, we don't have $20M + $30M in cap space. The article is wrong.
I appreciate your explanation. It makes things clearer. But the one thing that remains unclear is what the maximum cap number will be. The $180 mil is the cap minimum, right?
I appreciate your explanation. It makes things clearer. But the one thing that remains unclear is what the maximum cap number will be. The $180 mil is the cap minimum, right?
Sorry, I'm just trying to make sure I understand your question, because I think you might be misunderstanding what is meant by cap minimum.
Cap minimum is NOT the minimum that teams must spend. Cap minimum means that is the lowest the salary cap could possibly be this year. Knowing this minimum helps teams prepare, but it not a final figure.
This ESPN article probably explains it better than I can.
From what we're being told, the final salary cap number should be between $180-185M. Probably closer to the lower end.
we don't have $20M + $30M in cap space. The article is wrong.
at first, when you linked to overthecap to explain, I was like "how can the same site support both stances?". Now, I see what you're pointing out, and yes, the article is wrong.
Guys signed by us will get small salaries this year, but they'll get big bonuses spread over more than a few years.... but, we can't get crazy; we just have to make it through this lean year and maybe next, then we get a tone of relief.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
That's a good point to remember though: the cap is set to explode over the next couple of years. Between the 17th regular season games, the expanded playoffs, and new TV deals, the league will see a significant increase in revenue, which will lead to a big salary cap in the coming years.
What looks like a big contract now might be a value contact in a couple years. That's why I'm a big proponent of locking our young talent down ASAP.
Another thing I think about: between the rollover cap ($30M vs. $500k) and dead money ($500k vs. $10M), the Browns will have effectively $40M more that they can pay their team this year the Ravens. That will be a big factor (in this lower-cost year) to determine the winner of the AFC North.
This says we have 20m before adding the carryover.
And that is referencing overthecap.com, so I'm inclined to believe that. This means that we are in FANTASTIC shape when it comes to signing Watt and retaining a bunch of our own guys.
Like I said, that is not correct. Our current top-51 payroll for 2021 is already $188.5M. This is shown by OverTheCap. Since we are currently $8.5M over a projected $180M salary cap, you subtract it from our $30M rollover to get about $21M in cap space that we can spend (we also have $500k in dead money this year that factors in).
So no, we don't have $20M + $30M in cap space. The article is wrong.
thats not correct either, the cap isn't 180, thats the floor.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
Thanks, that helps more. So, if I get your point, the minimum cap number of $180 million is the lowest number the cap maximum can be. Right?
Right
I thought the 180 is the floor and meaning that teams had to atleast carry that amount not that this is the lowest max cap can be..cap isn't determined yet, the floor is, which is 5 million more than last year. That means every team needs to carry atleast 180million of cap for this year
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
Thanks, that helps more. So, if I get your point, the minimum cap number of $180 million is the lowest number the cap maximum can be. Right?
Right
I thought the 180 is the floor and meaning that teams had to atleast carry that amount not that this is the lowest max cap can be..cap isn't determined yet, the floor is, which is 5 million more than last year. That means every team needs to carry atleast 180million of cap for this year
If someone gives us a third round pick for OBJ do we take it?
probably we would
I think the only way anything below a 1st is discussed is if he comes back less than 100%.
Just because he didn't quite get integrated into the offense doesn't mean his value on the trade market is affected. We aren't in a cap situation that would necessitate tough decisions like this.
First, i don't think we are trading him. That said, we tend to over value our players. If starting QB's are going for 2nd rounders, OBJ probably isn't getting a 1st rounder as a starting point.
To me it is simply a matter of supply. Teams can find good receivers in the draft, especially this draft.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
