The 2021 salary cap was conservatively projected to $210 million before the coronavirus pandemic. The NFL and NFLPA set a $175 million salary cap floor for 2021 with league revenues declining due to COVID-19. If revenues are better than expected, the 2021 salary cap could be higher but will likely remain below the current level of $198.2 million.
Are revenues really that much lower? I thought that ticket sales were simply the gravy next to TV contracts, in terms of money coming in. What else besides tickets sales were impacted by the pandemic?
The NFL salary cap is expected to drop in 2021 due to revenue losses resulting from the global pandemic but the Arizona Cardinals will add a few million to that total. NFL teams get to roll over unused cap space from the previous year to the following year.
ESPN’s Field Yates reported the rollover total for all 32 NFL teams.
The Baltimore Ravens roll over the smallest total at more than $586,000 while the Cleveland Browns gain an extra $30.4 million for 2021.
Are revenues really that much lower? I thought that ticket sales were simply the gravy next to TV contracts, in terms of money coming in. What else besides tickets sales were impacted by the pandemic?
They are paying a ton of money for daily testing.
Either way, they are just making less money, not losing money.
Posted by Mike Florio on January 19, 2021, 11:32 AM EST link
Every December, the NFL gives the 32 teams an idea regarding the expected salary cap for the coming league year. This year, that didn’t happen.
It didn’t happen because the pandemic has caused revenue to crater, by dramatically reducing attendance at games. The NFL and NFL Players Association agreed in July that the cap for 2021 will go no lower than $175 million.
That would be a $23.2 million drop, per team, in comparison to 2020.
There has been talk that the cap won’t drop that low, and that it possibly could remain in the range of $195 million. The final number, however, will result from a negotiation between the NFL and the NFL Players Association. The players surely will want the cap to be as high as it can be. Multiple teams will want that, too, in order to avoid having to create the space necessary to comply with a $175 million spending limit.
Plenty of owners, in contrast, don’t want to delay the full brunt of the impact of the 2020 losses. They view it as an interest-free loan to players. And that mentality would push the final number closer to $175 million.
A league source with knowledge of the situation suggests that the salary cap could be in the range of $180 million.
At that amount, things could get very ugly for plenty of teams and players. As the source characterized it, the commencement of the 2021 league year on March 17 will destroy the middle class of veteran free agents. Plenty of players will be cut or not re-signed.
By way of example, a player like Ndamukong Suh, who was paid $7 million in 2020, will likely get something closer to $3 million in 2021. Many teams will be able to offer veterans only $1 million per year.
The problem is that contracts always are negotiated with the understanding that the cap will keep going up by five to 10 percent. If it drops by roughly 15 percent this year, multiple teams will have major issues because they haven’t built their rosters with the possibility of a shrunken cap in mind.
Are revenues really that much lower? I thought that ticket sales were simply the gravy next to TV contracts, in terms of money coming in. What else besides tickets sales were impacted by the pandemic?
They are paying a ton of money for daily testing.
Either way, they are just making less money, not losing money.
The Stadium Revenue Each NFL Team Will Lose If Games Are Played Without Fans
Mike Ozanian Forbes.com May 18, 2020
It is quite possible that the NFL will play its 2020 season without spectators in its stadiums. What would that mean in dollars and cents for the league?
The NFL would lose $5.5 billion of stadium revenue (the sum of tickets, concessions, sponsors, parking and team stores)—or 38% of its total revenue—based on figures for the 2018 season. More at link below:
The Browns and some other teams were able to have 20% of their seats sold for games. Other teams may have had more than that, but many teams had zero attendance, therefore zero gameday stadium revenues (tickets, concessions, parking, advertising). The revenue losses were substantial.
Are revenues really that much lower? I thought that ticket sales were simply the gravy next to TV contracts, in terms of money coming in. What else besides tickets sales were impacted by the pandemic?
I don't think it has ever been simply gravy.
Part of that is naming rights and advertising. Inside the stadium, everything has a sponsor. If people aren't inside the stadium to see the message, I doubt those companies are paying for that. They now might be paying a percentage based on allowed attendance.
Are revenues really that much lower? I thought that ticket sales were simply the gravy next to TV contracts, in terms of money coming in. What else besides tickets sales were impacted by the pandemic?
They are paying a ton of money for daily testing.
Either way, they are just making less money, not losing money.
But cap is calculated per revenues (incoming $$$), not net profit/loss. The only thing that was impacted by COVID was ticket sales (and then concessions at the games as well). With the contracting economy, people probably bought less jerseys, too.
But I was under the impression that all that was a drop in the bucket compared to the TV contracts, which would've been unaffected.
Are revenues really that much lower? I thought that ticket sales were simply the gravy next to TV contracts, in terms of money coming in. What else besides tickets sales were impacted by the pandemic?
They are paying a ton of money for daily testing.
Either way, they are just making less money, not losing money.
The Stadium Revenue Each NFL Team Will Lose If Games Are Played Without Fans
Mike Ozanian Forbes.com May 18, 2020
It is quite possible that the NFL will play its 2020 season without spectators in its stadiums. What would that mean in dollars and cents for the league?
The NFL would lose $5.5 billion of stadium revenue (the sum of tickets, concessions, sponsors, parking and team stores)—or 38% of its total revenue—based on figures for the 2018 season. More at link below:
The Browns and some other teams were able to have 20% of their seats sold for games. Other teams may have had more than that, but many teams had zero attendance, therefore zero gameday stadium revenues (tickets, concessions, parking, advertising). The revenue losses were substantial.
I was wrong about the size of the pie that is stadium-related. Thank you for posting that. Definitely makes sense now.
Are revenues really that much lower? I thought that ticket sales were simply the gravy next to TV contracts, in terms of money coming in. What else besides tickets sales were impacted by the pandemic?
They are paying a ton of money for daily testing.
Either way, they are just making less money, not losing money.
But cap is calculated per revenues (incoming $$$), not net profit/loss. The only thing that was impacted by COVID was ticket sales (and then concessions at the games as well). With the contracting economy, people probably bought less jerseys, too.
But I was under the impression that all that was a drop in the bucket compared to the TV contracts, which would've been unaffected.
16 games with an average of 45,000 @ $75 average/pop is $3 million/game, not including premium seating extra charges. 256 regular season games x $3 million each is $768 million in lost revenue. I am unsure if all of ticket prices go into the players "pool", or not, buy I would guess so.
That's the whole league, / by 32 teams thats' 8 million, but pre season from previous years wasn't included, 10 games not 8 home games,
so 30 million.
So every team lost 30 million, for no fans.
What, sounds like a lot, but, earlier this year, I heard the media revenue was either 246, million per team, or maybe 146, and that's per year.
either way it was up like 13-14 million per team
So, so, 30 million, one year, lost for no fans, in a thing if I owned it that brought in 246 million, maybe 207 million per year gross,
Ehh I'd frickin make it work.
Maybe set a lil' aside for a rainy day in the middle of not knowing any way to possibly spend all the revenue in this nearly literal money making machine on steroids.
Who knows, it's probably all leveraged into bank interest and stuff, but, it's gotta be one heck of a business model to try and get out of debt with.
Doesn't give a ton of room to sign anyone in FA does it? Or to do so youd have to backlog money? Anyone have a good insight on how this works? Who can we target in FA?
Vernon was owed 11 Mil on the books... and now he's a FA. don't think we'd be able to sign him again at that rate without structuring his deal differently..
As we currently sit now, I do think we are one of the top 10 spending teams for 2021. Obviously things can change with player movement.
We still need to pay, in time, Baker, Chubb, and Ward... maybe Teller.
I heard an interesting question on sports talk radio (hey, it happens every now and then). Anyway, the host asked: If you could sign only 3 of the 4 players - Mayfield, Chubb, Ward, and Teller - which one would you not sign? They had a guy from PFF on and asked him the question. His answer, with no hesitation was "Chubb". I think I disagree; based on durability and availability I'd say either Ward or Teller, probably Ward because I have some doubts whether he can stay on the field because of his size and tendency towards both concussions and calf strains. I get the whole "RBs are a dime a dozen" argument, but I think Chubb is a generational RB.
I know he's injured a lot, but losing Ward is probably the absolute WORST thing you can do to a unit that needs to go way way the other direction this offseason.
I think the answer, unfortunately, is Teller. You have Forbes coming back and you hope he can step up. I can see the argument for Chubb as we already have Hunt extended.
Are revenues really that much lower? I thought that ticket sales were simply the gravy next to TV contracts, in terms of money coming in. What else besides tickets sales were impacted by the pandemic?
I'm sure not selling $12 beers and $10 hotdogs have contributed to the lower income numbers as well.
I love Teller, but this coaching staff and scheme created him as much as anything. I skip signing Teller and I make a new one just like him.
Unpopular opinion:
Trade Bitonio and save $10 million. Keep Teller who is three years younger.
But within the parameters of the question, which one of the 4 (Chubb, Mayfield, Teller, Ward) would you not sign? (I'm pretty sure I know your answer.) It would be a good poll question to post for someone less lazy than me.
I love Teller, but this coaching staff and scheme created him as much as anything. I skip signing Teller and I make a new one just like him.
Unpopular opinion:
Trade Bitonio and save $10 million. Keep Teller who is three years younger.
But within the parameters of the question, which one of the 4 (Chubb, Mayfield, Teller, Ward) would you not sign? (I'm pretty sure I know your answer.) It would be a good poll question to post for someone less lazy than me.
1. Baker 2. Ward 3. Teller 4. Chubb
And I love Chubb. A lot. Chubb is special but the running game took a huge hit when Teller was out. There is no reason we shouldn't be able to sign them all. Although teams should always be wary of signing running backs long term (obviously).
As long as we're able to keep both Chubb and Hunt on the roster and playing, we should fear RB dropoff a little less.
Agreed. Chubb shouldn't have the miles on him like Ezekiel Elliott does. I would be happy if we signed Chubb to a contract that is a little less lucrative than Derrick Henry's.
eh, that's a 2022 question, anyway. If it came down to a crunch, you trade/release Hubbard to free up funds for Teller. You trade Hunt to free up funds for Chubb. *gasp* Heck, depending on how next year plays out, we have some hefty WR contracts that "could" be moved. This year our base is over the cap, sure, but we can recoup all the overage via trading/cutting Hubbard (3.67+ million saved), cutting Clayborn (3 million saved), trade/release Njoku (6+ million saved), and restructuring/extending Richardson to save about 3 million more.
Not saying we will or should, just that the 16-ish million base overage is fairly easy to come by if needed for some crazy reason. And *gasp* we'd be right back to having what..34 million in space??
He's another one I think of when it comes to re-signing players.
I think I keep him for his 5th year option. I think he's easily our most talented TE and quite possibly our best. He's actually our best blocking TE in my mind. Signing Hooper though we may have no choice but to cut ties with Njoku at some point. He could be our Kelce or Kittle. Not sure if Hooper is of that caliber and not sure there'd be a suitor for him if we were looking to trade him.
But I'd agree with others, Baker and Ward are my top two priorities while either Chubb or Teller are farther down the line. Although I think I'd lean a little more towards re-signing Chubb and not Teller. (Trading Bitonio actually makes sense, too.)
At any rate, after QB, it shows it is important to keep players in the pipeline. That is why I discount talk about drafting only D this year.
Drafting is much like investing, a balanced approach is almost always best. I feel the same about drafting players and why I tend to lean towards BPA.
We may not need a OL now, or a RB now, or whatever, but we will sooner or later....and it's funny how it turns out to be sooner most of the time.
Now that we are good, the challenge before us is to stay good. To me, the way to stay good is to plot your roster 4 years down the road, then look at the holes you might have.
I think we are doing that. Harris and Treeter might be a good example. How long is Tretter under contract? Maybe next season? Is he a guy we are going to sign another 4 years or is he a guy we let walk and go with Harris?
IMO staying good is harder than getting good because you not only have to consider the here and now, you also have to consider 3-4 years down the road.
One thing about Hooper: he seemed to be a bit heavier and clunkier than I remembered him with Atlanta. Maybe we needed him to gain weight to block, but he didn’t seem to have the same athleticism
I just don't think that 1 good quarter of a season erases the past several years of Njoku being infuriatingly inconsistent. Plus, there were the rumblings and grumblings of him sitting out earlier. I just wonder what he wants as far as contract, and if he's going to regress to being a poor blocker with inconsistent hands once he gets it.
Plus, there were the rumblings and grumblings of him sitting out earlier. I just wonder what he wants as far as contract, and if he's going to regress to being a poor blocker with inconsistent hands once he gets it.
I'm not sure if it has to do with a contract. I think is it was a marriage of a few things. First, the treatment he received from Freddie (much like Higgins as well), him getting butt-hurt that they signed Hooper to a massive FA deal no longer making him the #1 TE and the drafting of Harrison Bryant.
His possible reaction to the last two and wanting out, I think, was rather sophomoric but he could have also been prodded a bit to act by his agent, Drew Rosenhaus, who has a propensity for these sorta things.
All that said, I think Njoku still has the highest ceiling of any TEs on this roster. He is more athletic than all of them and maybe one of the most athletic in the entire league, was the best blocking TE this year (huge + from previous years) and is the biggest (pun intended) red zone threat on this team.
His hands still concern me, has had a few injuries the past two seasons, and at times looks awkward making plays with the ball.
His blocking didn't improve (as far as I noticed, at least), until the very end, as he was still whiffing several times per game and getting his RBs blown up. At one point this year he was losing playing time to the rookie.
I guess I simply wrote him off at the beginning of the season, and it was just too little too late.
If it ain't broke don't fix it .. Leave the Offence alone and move Ward . Love the kid ; Have watched him his whole career ; he will never play a full season ..
If it ain't broke don't fix it .. Leave the Offence alone and move Ward . Love the kid ; Have watched him his whole career ; he will never play a full season ..
You don't that and besides you never let an all-pro player walk ... JMHO
If it ain't broke don't fix it .. Leave the Offence alone and move Ward . Love the kid ; Have watched him his whole career ; he will never play a full season ..
You don't that and besides you never let an all-pro player walk ... JMHO
If it ain't broke don't fix it .. Leave the Offence alone and move Ward . Love the kid ; Have watched him his whole career ; he will never play a full season ..
You don't that and besides you never let an all-pro player walk ... JMHO
Ward is considered a top 10 CB in the NFL. No way we let him walk.
That's my pick out of the four to choose from ! It would come down to Teller or Ward to me .. At this point I don't want to do ANYTHING to disrupt the continuity of the offence ..
Out of those 4 I’d definitely let Ward walk as well
I think people are underestimating the importance of having a very good corner.
no doubt about it. I do worry about his injury history and proclivity to be down. And, yes, I know injury history doesn’t always lead to the same future.
I worry about Myles as well, as we don’t know the long-term effects of Covid yet. He certainly wasn’t the same player the last half of the year.
Along the same lines, Teller wasn’t always healthy either, so I know it’s the nature of the beast
If someone gives us a third round pick for OBJ do we take it?
0% chance.
of taking it or getting the offer?
Taking it. Teams will definitely be making the offer.
If someone comes at us with an offer for a 3rd, all they get is faded laughter as the phone clicks. Even a 2nd will be met with "what else you got to offer?"
If someone gives us a third round pick for OBJ do we take it?
probably we would
I think the only way anything below a 1st is discussed is if he comes back less than 100%.
Just because he didn't quite get integrated into the offense doesn't mean his value on the trade market is affected. We aren't in a cap situation that would necessitate tough decisions like this.
If someone gives us a third round pick for OBJ do we take it?
0% chance.
of taking it or getting the offer?
Taking it. Teams will definitely be making the offer.
Agreed. Probably not.
However, a 2nd rounder? I think that is a different scenario entirely and the FO might take that and run for it.
The issue is his constant injuries and his contract situation for 2021. Not sure if any team is all that interested in shelling out a decently high draft pick and taking on the salary in a 2021 covid cap situation.
If we decide to trade him and realize we can't get a 1st I wouldn't settle for anything less that 2 #2's.
Unless Berry is a negotiating genius, there is next to no way we are getting anything back close to what Dorsey forked over. I doubt two second rounders is realistic as well.
People need to realize his contract is a liability at this point in time and teams would be taking that on for 2021. That hinders the return IMO.
Overall his trade value isn't all that much at this point. We'd be selling low right now.
If we decide to trade him and realize we can't get a 1st I wouldn't settle for anything less that 2 #2's.
Unless Berry is a negotiating genius, there is next to no way we are getting anything back close to what Dorsey forked over. I doubt two second rounders is realistic as well.
People need to realize his contract is a liability at this point in time and teams would be taking that on for 2021. That hinders the return IMO.
Overall his trade value isn't all that much at this point. We'd be selling low right now.
Back to cap space ...... As far as the NFL overall .... given that this season sees a drop in the cap, I would bet that over the cap teams will be able to "borrow" some cap space from next year's cap in order to manage their cap.
If that happens there is no reason to have a cap at all and it would break the collective bargaining agreement unless you could get the owners and players union to agree on terms to amend the contract. There would be zero incentive for the majority of owners to agree on this. Only the cap starved owners would want such a bailout.
Back to cap space ...... As far as the NFL overall .... given that this season sees a drop in the cap, I would bet that over the cap teams will be able to "borrow" some cap space from next year's cap in order to manage their cap.
I doubt this will be the case. If anything, it will expose those teams that wildly spend money or keep re-negotiating contracts ultimately kicking the cap responsibility further down the road to future years. Granted, this expected decreased cap dilemma will only be for 1-2 years before another cap celling hike most likely, but I don't see teams being allowed to borrow. This might amplify the problem further, IMO.
If anything, I think this will clearly benefit teams that will carry over significant cap space from the previous year. For those teams, there could be a lot of opportunity in the market where other teams are forced to cut players as a result of the decreased cap possibility. Those teams that were more judicious in their past spending might be able leverage future contracts of these players as they might be less due to cap constraints...or their salary for 2021, specifically, might be less if it's a long-term deal due to the cap (ex. Myles Garrett contract).
Some of this talk about cap is premature since the official cap number hasn't been decided yet. With almost every contracted player on the roster expected to get a raise in 2021 from 2020, a major cap cut (of 15% some say) would be very prohibitive to more than just 1-2 teams.
What I do think you're seeing currently is teams are evaluating the high paid contracts that are either out of line or over paid for the performance they are getting or injury issues. There was a big run on QB and RB contracts that teams now are also rethinking. If you have 20-25 percent of your cap tied to one player it makes running a winning team very difficult.
Back to cap space ...... As far as the NFL overall .... given that this season sees a drop in the cap, I would bet that over the cap teams will be able to "borrow" some cap space from next year's cap in order to manage their cap.
The owners would love to see the cap number decline, and stay that way. So the NFL would love to disagree with you
Back to cap space ...... As far as the NFL overall .... given that this season sees a drop in the cap, I would bet that over the cap teams will be able to "borrow" some cap space from next year's cap in order to manage their cap.
The owners would love to see the cap number decline, and stay that way. So the NFL would love to disagree with you
So, you're saying COVID was created by the NFL owners to force a decline in the cap?
Borrowing money from future years seems a bit sketchy. I'm still expecting a 3-year dead cap spread (at least the dead cap is for players no longer on the teams).
A two year spread already exists (post June 1st designation) and the 2023 TV contracts will make it easier to absorb any necessary dead cap to get past 2021. That would also allow teams to explore trades of more valuable players as they could spread the escalated dead cap from traded players as well.
That's as far as I would like to see them go. Just my opinion, though.
If someone gives us a third round pick for OBJ do we take it?
0% chance.
0.9999999999999999999999999% chance.
Was Russell Wilson originaly a 3rd round pick, (i.e. someone offers Russell Wilson straight up for OBJ)
(At this point one of the characters Eddie Murphy played in the barber shop part of the (1990 version of the) movie "coming to America" while talking about boxers and boxing, ended the scene saying Ahaa, ahaaa.)
They kinda already did this. They set a cap floor of $175M, and said they would borrow some cap from future years to make it work.
Now, it seems like they didn't lose as much money as expected, so the cap is supposedly going to be around $180-181M.
I can't see them allowing teams to choose how much cap they want to borrow. It would create too much of a competitive imbalance.
With the new 17 game schedule, extra playoff games, and new TV deals coming soon, the cap is set to explode in the coming years. It would be nice to use this lower-revenue year and spread the lower cap hit over 2-3 years to slowly "ramp-up" to the higher salary cap. This would prevent a situation like the NBA had where the salary cap grew alot in one year and allowed the Warriors to sign KD, throwing off the competitive balance of the league.
Just to clarify, I would think that they would come up with a one time advance on the cap, essentially borrowing a bit from 1 future cap in order to get/stay under the cap.
The problem is a "one time" advance will have to be paid back. When that time comes another advance will be granted.
You have to understand that there are a lot of owners who don't want a cap and revenue sharing. Once the door is cracked, it will be the start down the road that MLB is on.
No, that number has already been factored into the $22M we have to spend.
Technically, we are already about $8M over the $180M project for next year. Thankfully, we carried over $30M, giving us ample cap space to still make some moves.
This says we have 20m before adding the carryover.
And that is referencing overthecap.com, so I'm inclined to believe that. This means that we are in FANTASTIC shape when it comes to signing Watt and retaining a bunch of our own guys.
This says we have 20m before adding the carryover.
And that is referencing overthecap.com, so I'm inclined to believe that. This means that we are in FANTASTIC shape when it comes to signing Watt and retaining a bunch of our own guys.
Like I said, that is not correct. Our current top-51 payroll for 2021 is already $188.5M. This is shown by OverTheCap. Since we are currently $8.5M over a projected $180M salary cap, you subtract it from our $30M rollover to get about $21M in cap space that we can spend (we also have $500k in dead money this year that factors in).
So no, we don't have $20M + $30M in cap space. The article is wrong.
I appreciate your explanation. It makes things clearer. But the one thing that remains unclear is what the maximum cap number will be. The $180 mil is the cap minimum, right?
I appreciate your explanation. It makes things clearer. But the one thing that remains unclear is what the maximum cap number will be. The $180 mil is the cap minimum, right?
Sorry, I'm just trying to make sure I understand your question, because I think you might be misunderstanding what is meant by cap minimum.
Cap minimum is NOT the minimum that teams must spend. Cap minimum means that is the lowest the salary cap could possibly be this year. Knowing this minimum helps teams prepare, but it not a final figure.
This ESPN article probably explains it better than I can.
From what we're being told, the final salary cap number should be between $180-185M. Probably closer to the lower end.
we don't have $20M + $30M in cap space. The article is wrong.
at first, when you linked to overthecap to explain, I was like "how can the same site support both stances?". Now, I see what you're pointing out, and yes, the article is wrong.
Guys signed by us will get small salaries this year, but they'll get big bonuses spread over more than a few years.... but, we can't get crazy; we just have to make it through this lean year and maybe next, then we get a tone of relief.
That's a good point to remember though: the cap is set to explode over the next couple of years. Between the 17th regular season games, the expanded playoffs, and new TV deals, the league will see a significant increase in revenue, which will lead to a big salary cap in the coming years.
What looks like a big contract now might be a value contact in a couple years. That's why I'm a big proponent of locking our young talent down ASAP.
Another thing I think about: between the rollover cap ($30M vs. $500k) and dead money ($500k vs. $10M), the Browns will have effectively $40M more that they can pay their team this year the Ravens. That will be a big factor (in this lower-cost year) to determine the winner of the AFC North.
This says we have 20m before adding the carryover.
And that is referencing overthecap.com, so I'm inclined to believe that. This means that we are in FANTASTIC shape when it comes to signing Watt and retaining a bunch of our own guys.
Like I said, that is not correct. Our current top-51 payroll for 2021 is already $188.5M. This is shown by OverTheCap. Since we are currently $8.5M over a projected $180M salary cap, you subtract it from our $30M rollover to get about $21M in cap space that we can spend (we also have $500k in dead money this year that factors in).
So no, we don't have $20M + $30M in cap space. The article is wrong.
thats not correct either, the cap isn't 180, thats the floor.
Thanks, that helps more. So, if I get your point, the minimum cap number of $180 million is the lowest number the cap maximum can be. Right?
Right
I thought the 180 is the floor and meaning that teams had to atleast carry that amount not that this is the lowest max cap can be..cap isn't determined yet, the floor is, which is 5 million more than last year. That means every team needs to carry atleast 180million of cap for this year
Thanks, that helps more. So, if I get your point, the minimum cap number of $180 million is the lowest number the cap maximum can be. Right?
Right
I thought the 180 is the floor and meaning that teams had to atleast carry that amount not that this is the lowest max cap can be..cap isn't determined yet, the floor is, which is 5 million more than last year. That means every team needs to carry atleast 180million of cap for this year
If someone gives us a third round pick for OBJ do we take it?
probably we would
I think the only way anything below a 1st is discussed is if he comes back less than 100%.
Just because he didn't quite get integrated into the offense doesn't mean his value on the trade market is affected. We aren't in a cap situation that would necessitate tough decisions like this.
First, i don't think we are trading him. That said, we tend to over value our players. If starting QB's are going for 2nd rounders, OBJ probably isn't getting a 1st rounder as a starting point.
To me it is simply a matter of supply. Teams can find good receivers in the draft, especially this draft.
Thanks, that helps more. So, if I get your point, the minimum cap number of $180 million is the lowest number the cap maximum can be. Right?
Right
I thought the 180 is the floor and meaning that teams had to atleast carry that amount not that this is the lowest max cap can be..cap isn't determined yet, the floor is, which is 5 million more than last year. That means every team needs to carry atleast 180million of cap for this year
LOL...correct. I misread the earlier comment. LOL....now I am beginning to wonder.
Nope, as I told guard dawg, both you and lead are misunderstanding the salary cap floor.
"Cap minimum is NOT the minimum that teams must spend. Cap minimum means that is the lowest the salary cap could possibly be this year. Knowing this minimum helps teams prepare, but it is not a final figure."
Basically, because the salary would probably be close to $160M without intervention this year because of COVID, the NFL has worked out an agreement with the NFLPA that the cap will be no lower than $180M next year.
Final "Salary Cap Maximum" will between $180-185M.
As of Right Now Over the Cap Has the Browns with +$20,646,244 over the cap, that is with $180,000,00 available. Today the NFL Network said they expect the final total should be around $185,000,000 which would give te Browns $25,646,244. Now there are two players I think could be cut
1. Chris Hubbard Cap Saving $3,671,850 2. David Njoku Cap Savings $6,013,000
If this happens (Just Speculating) the Browns would have a total of $35,331,094
Now there are 3 other players that have been mentioned as possible cuts or trades
1. Sheldon Richardson Cap Savings $11,500,000 2. Odell Becham Jr. Cap Savings $15,750,000 3. Adrian Clayborne Cap Savings 3,000,000
If this happens (Just Speculating) the Browns would have a total of $65,081,094
Now I know this all won't happen and I woul rather keep Richardson and OBJ but it just shows how quickly the Browns could become big time players in FA
1. Sheldon Richardson Cap Savings $11,500,000 2. Odell Becham Jr. Cap Savings $15,750,000 3. Adrian Clayborne Cap Savings 3,000,000
If this happens (Just Speculating) the Browns would have a total of $65,081,094
I don't believe this number is correct. Here is why:
In this particular scenario, these three guys' salary doesn't simply add to the available cap space as there is dead cap assigned to each of them if cut.
Richardson- $1,666,668 OBJ- $12,791,000 (massive amount of dead cap) Clayborne- $500,000
So, I believe the number would be more like $50,600,000-ish. Which is why many people don't think OBJ is going to be cut. It wouldn't make that much sense to do so only to free up $3M and have so much of his 2021 salary on the books. Trading him would really be the only option in regards to eliminating dead cap on his 2021 salary.
Richardson's full salary would be a savings - $11.9 million OBJ, however would only save us $3 million. A new deal for Richardson wouldn't be a bad idea at all... extend him and reduce the hit while still putting all of this year's money in his pocket.
Also, I doubt Njoku is cut or traded unless a team trading for him works out a new deal for him. I think the more likely scenario is that we give him a new contract that lowers his cap number for this year while putting some guaranteed money in his pocket.
Additionally, one thing folks forget is the way the cap is figured... it only counts the Top 53 players. If a new player comes in, it pushes someone else down. Right now, that someone has a hit of $780k... so, if we sign someone whose hit for 2021 is $5.7 million, our available space only decreases by the difference, or $5 million. Across two or three signings, that is enough room for a whole additional player.
Another player who is a great candidate to have their deal redone is Joel Bitonio. He is a $10 million cap hit; it's all salary and roster bonus. Giving him an extension could EASILY free up $7 million for 2021.
We have tons of cap space why are people obsessed with restructuring OBJ/Landry/Tretter/Richardson/Hubbard/Juke Clairborne? We are better with them on the team than replacing them with players not on the team.
We are not in rebuild mode any longer.
We are "win" in the next 3ish years mode before our window closes and we have to cut players.
Even in a Buyer's Market where commodities are cheaper, the more money you have to go shopping, the more nice things you can bring home.
OBJ, Landry, Tretter, Hubbard, Claiborne - none are likely to be restructured, IMO. Existing Dead Cap doesn't go away with a restructure, so you really only gain space from salaries.
Richardson, Bitonio, Njoku are prime candidates for a new deal that extends them while also making them much more Cap-friendly.
Richardson's full salary would be a savings - $11.9 million OBJ, however would only save us $3 million. A new deal for Richardson wouldn't be a bad idea at all... extend him and reduce the hit while still putting all of this year's money in his pocket.
Also, I doubt Njoku is cut or traded unless a team trading for him works out a new deal for him. I think the more likely scenario is that we give him a new contract that lowers his cap number for this year while putting some guaranteed money in his pocket.
Additionally, one thing folks forget is the way the cap is figured... it only counts the Top 53 players. If a new player comes in, it pushes someone else down. Right now, that someone has a hit of $780k... so, if we sign someone whose hit for 2021 is $5.7 million, our available space only decreases by the difference, or $5 million. Across two or three signings, that is enough room for a whole additional player.
Another player who is a great candidate to have their deal redone is Joel Bitonio. He is a $10 million cap hit; it's all salary and roster bonus. Giving him an extension could EASILY free up $7 million for 2021.
I put Bitonio on my list a few days ago of the top 6 guys who could be surprise cuts or have their contract restructured. I think he is lower on the list but I guess it could be a possibility.
Re: Njoku.....I was (happily) surprised by Berry's comments as it seemed to me that he has every intention of keeping Njoku. Part of it might be that Hooper had a subpar year, part of it might be Njoku's willingness to play well and improve in all facets even with all his pre-season drama wanting to be traded. I don't know if the team will extend him, but I think they might ride it out in 2021 and see what happens. His contract is guaranteed on 3/17. I stand by my comment that Njoku is our best TE.
Extending him has multiple benefits for everyone involved. It puts all of this year's money, and perhaps a bit more, in his pocket immediately, while also making him more affordable to the Cap at the same time. It also makes him eminently more tradeable. As a blocker, everyone has touted how he has improved in his pass blocking, but I haven't heard a single peep from anyone complimenting his inline blocking in the Run game, and I strongly suspect that is still a major weakness. That with his cost and his inconsistencies makes him almost impossible to trade right now, especially in the Cap situation most of the league is in. A reduced cost, however, makes him very enticing to us and other teams.
For Bitonio - there is no way you let him go. His restructure is really just an extension; a new deal. He's under contract this year and next, but at pretty big numbers that could be turned into a signing bonus and then spread out over a few more years.
The same applies to Richardson. In a cash-strapped year, it's about taking guys with large salaries, but no Dead Cap hit, who you want as part of the core of your team and giving them new deals to keep them while also making them more affordable in 2021.
Extending him has multiple benefits for everyone involved. It puts all of this year's money, and perhaps a bit more, in his pocket immediately, while also making him more affordable to the Cap at the same time.
In isolation, possibly. But it could amortize that money in future seasons, which effects our future cap. And we see teams kick the can down the road in term of dollars owed on many players and it often times comes at the expense of younger guys who are worth it more at the time. I don't see this FO doing that, with multiple players that is. But hey, anything can happen.
Anyone we sign or extend, it would be best to front load contract before baker Chubb ward teller etc are due theirs. 4 year deals where last 2 don’t count so much towards cap. Or are we going all in next two years and blow some up later when we sign our core players?
Restructuring Richardson would likely be to lower his monies for this year while not overpaying for next as well. He is approaching an age where being a traveling FA on year-to-year deals with little guarantees is not a happy thought.
Restructuring and Extending Bitonio would be advantageous as we have 3 guys (Bitonio, Tretter and Conklin) on our O-line set to hit Free Agency simultaneously in 2023 and that would be a rather large turnover.
I'm undecided on the WR room at the moment, but those 1st two are pretty easy yeses for me. I went into a ridiculous amount of detail on the Richardson extension a number of weeks ago but I don't remember how to search for previous posts and have no idea what thread it was in.
No wonder I couldn't find it at 1st, it was 4 months ago...oops.
Any way
Quote:
Food for thought on our Defense this offseason:
Sheldon Richardson is going into his dreaded year 31. He is also on the last year of his contract and has already done the 1-year "rent-a-hulk" contracts that guys like Ndamunkong Sue now find themselves doing.
We all know that the 2021 cap will likely not exceed 180 million, so I doubt he would look forward to being released and try to sign a (likely) 8 million dollar 1-year deal (the same contract that Sue is signing year after year since his year 32).
Soooo...he's due 13.67 million in 2021. If released he would likely only be able to make "maybe" 23-24 million over the 2021-2023 league years.
Heck, if we kept him and paid him the 13.67, in 2022 he stills goes to rent-a-hulk status and makes, whet...15-16 million in total for 2022 and 2023?? That's still at best 29 million in 3 years for him.
Why don't we restructure his contract and add the 2 years? It would keep our best veteran DT on the team and save quite a bit of money.
3-years, 30 million (Richardson makes more than he would otherwise either way and gets to stay in one place)
2021 Cap: 9.5 Million (more than he'd likely get in this upcoming FA period and 4+ million less than his current cap hit for 2021) Win, win. 2022 Cap: 9.5 million (still more than he would likely pull in his year 32 as a rent-a-hulk and the 4.17 million saved in 2021 rolls over for Cleveland so this is closer to a 5 million dollar deal for the front office when it's all balanced). 2023 Cap 11 Million: Richardson's year 33. Even if he gets released, it is also the year the cap is expected to expand with the new TV deals to some 248 million. Meaning he would be in a better spot to try to make money on his end and the Browns would be able to laugh off any 2-ish million in dead money. Bonus, if he is still playing solid, 11 or so million would actually be a cheap deal under the new 2023 cap.
I would argue that restructuring contracts because we can does not bode well for future FA. They will be less interested in coming to a place where their contracts are messed with "because we can" vs "because we need cap space".
I would argue that restructuring contracts because we can does not bode well for future FA. They will be less interested in coming to a place where their contracts are messed with "because we can" vs "because we need cap space".
Jmho
Every team restructures contracts almost every year. We did it last year with Olivier Vernon and Chris Hubbard.
I don't understand the infatuation some have with cutting our best TE. Njoku is our best TE and I don't think it's particularly close. Hooper will never be in the greatest TE talks, but I still think Njoku could stud out and be one of the greatest.
I mean I also thought Seth Devalve would shock a lot of people and become great, so it is what it is...
I would argue that restructuring contracts because we can does not bode well for future FA. They will be less interested in coming to a place where their contracts are messed with "because we can" vs "because we need cap space".
Jmho
Every team restructures contracts almost every year. We did it last year with Olivier Vernon and Chris Hubbard.
To add, there will be even more contracts restructured this year due to the lower salary cap. It's restructure or expect a large amount of cuts around the league this year.
I would argue that restructuring contracts because we can does not bode well for future FA. They will be less interested in coming to a place where their contracts are messed with "because we can" vs "because we need cap space".
Jmho
Every team restructures contracts almost every year. We did it last year with Olivier Vernon and Chris Hubbard.
To add, there will be even more contracts restructured this year due to the lower salary cap. It's restructure or expect a large amount of cuts around the league this year.
The front office and Sheldon Richardson both know he’s not getting $13 million on the open market. Instead of cutting him and having to face a tough free agency period I would guess his salary gets down to about $8 million.
I would argue that restructuring contracts because we can does not bode well for future FA. They will be less interested in coming to a place where their contracts are messed with "because we can" vs "because we need cap space".
Jmho
Every team restructures contracts almost every year. We did it last year with Olivier Vernon and Chris Hubbard.
To add, there will be even more contracts restructured this year due to the lower salary cap. It's restructure or expect a large amount of cuts around the league this year.
The front office and Sheldon Richardson both know he’s not getting $13 million on the open market. Instead of cutting him and having to face a tough free agency period I would guess his salary gets down to about $8 million.
Convert this year's deal into a signing bonus and sign him to a 3 year deal at $3 million this year ($17 total cash) $5 million next year, and $19 million in year 3. (which both sides do not expect to see) His cash in years 1-2 is close to what he would have received, and year 3 is only for cap purposes.
Yes. I think that "restructure" has a negative connotation with some, and as such people are against it because they are predisposed to thinking it's a bad thing.
It can be a VERY good thing for all involved, and the prime place to use it is when you have a player that you want to keep around is in a situation where he has a really big salary and no dead money. This is perfect because you can then pay him his ENTIRE salary for the current year up front, minus maybe a million and a half that becomes his new salary, and the team gets to spread the cap hit for that out over several years. The player gets a fat chunk before the season begins, they get to know they are paid beyond the current year, and the team gets to lower their accounting cost for the player.
It doesn't always make sense to restructure a player, and restructuring doesn't always equate to taking money away from a player. It can very easily be a Win-Win-Win all around that makes everyone happy.
I don't understand the infatuation some have with cutting our best TE. Njoku is our best TE and I don't think it's particularly close. Hooper will never be in the greatest TE talks, but I still think Njoku could stud out and be one of the greatest.
I mean I also thought Seth Devalve would shock a lot of people and become great, so it is what it is...
I didn't say I wanted him cut, I just said these are players I have heard might be cut I love Njoku and would be thrilled if he stays ...
1. Sheldon Richardson Cap Savings $11,500,000 2. Odell Becham Jr. Cap Savings $15,750,000 3. Adrian Clayborne Cap Savings 3,000,000
If this happens (Just Speculating) the Browns would have a total of $65,081,094
I don't believe this number is correct. Here is why:
In this particular scenario, these three guys' salary doesn't simply add to the available cap space as there is dead cap assigned to each of them if cut.
Richardson- $1,666,668 OBJ- $12,791,000 (massive amount of dead cap) Clayborne- $500,000
So, I believe the number would be more like $50,600,000-ish. Which is why many people don't think OBJ is going to be cut. It wouldn't make that much sense to do so only to free up $3M and have so much of his 2021 salary on the books. Trading him would really be the only option in regards to eliminating dead cap on his 2021 salary.
Go to over the cap and it will show you total cap savings ...
I find this surprising in that I didn't think $3 million was all that much for a decent DE, but I reckon they feel we can do better with that money.
My guess is that a player similar to Clayborn will get less than $3 million this off-season and will probably be able to play on both sides of the line.
Yes, but I dismissed it when it said OBJ has zero dead money if cut.
Technically, he does have zero dead money if we cut him now. However, we can't cut him because he is injured, and his salary for 2021 is guaranteed for injury which becomes vested on the 3rd day of the league year.
So, we're on the hook for his salary no matter what unless we trade him.
And, nobody is going to give us anything worthwhile for a $16 million WR coming off an ACL injury, at least not until/unless he is able to light it up in camp, and by then, our roster is mostly set.
He's worth more to the roster than the $3 million in savings; he isn't going anywhere, folks.
Clayborn was a vet bandaid. Young guys like Gustin showed they could play comparably (PFF had Gustin graded a bit higher.) Clayborn was unlikely to get better at this point in his career. Signing a better edge FA and drafting one to develop doesn't leave many snaps for a role-limited vet.
But he was good for us while he was here. Best of luck to him.
Would this motivate even the upper-crust FAs to take 1-2 year deals in order to properly cash in?
Nope, probably just gonna push for more signing bonuses/guaranteed money to push the cap hit into the future. I expect lots of regrets and dead money 3 years from now.
From what I've been hearing on the sports talk shows Jerry Jones signed Dak to that huge deal because he knows the cap will be going way up in the next year or two once we get by this pandemic and a new TV deal is signed. They said he has some inside info or whatever. I don't know if this is true but it makes sense.
And this is before we pay Baker. I like Hooper's contract less and less the more I think about it.
The Hooper contract football haunts me. He is getting paid way too much for the the level of production he provides. AND there are a bunch of quality tight ends available this off-season. AND we have two other quality tight ends on the roster. Let’s hope he can produce more with no appendicitis.
You have to remember that the cap is based on the top 51 largest contracts on the team at any given time.
Since the Browns already have over 51 players signed, for any player or draft pick they sign to a new contract for this year, lowest contract drops off. Because our lowest player on the top 51 list is currently making $780k, you can drop that from the cap.
So for 9 draft picks, we save roughly $780k x 9 (actually slightly more, since we start dropping off larger contracts), or about $7M.
This works for all the free agent signings as well - technically, you can cut $800k off their cap hit for this year when subtracting it from our cap space.
You have to remember that the cap is based on the top 51 largest contracts on the team at any given time.
Since the Browns already have over 51 players signed, for any player or draft pick they sign to a new contract for this year, lowest contract drops off. Because our lowest player on the top 51 list is currently making $780k, you can drop that from the cap.
So for 9 draft picks, we save roughly $780k x 9 (actually slightly more, since we start dropping off larger contracts), or about $7M.
This works for all the free agent signings as well - technically, you can cut $800k off their cap hit for this year when subtracting it from our cap space.
You have to remember that the cap is based on the top 51 largest contracts on the team at any given time.
Since the Browns already have over 51 players signed, for any player or draft pick they sign to a new contract for this year, lowest contract drops off. Because our lowest player on the top 51 list is currently making $780k, you can drop that from the cap.
So for 9 draft picks, we save roughly $780k x 9 (actually slightly more, since we start dropping off larger contracts), or about $7M.
This works for all the free agent signings as well - technically, you can cut $800k off their cap hit for this year when subtracting it from our cap space.
LOL...I was about to ask if we really needed to do that and go in to we needed to extend Teller...for a moment in my mind, I had you saying we needed to extend Treeter.
Yes, Teller is a guy we need to get his ink on paper. He is for sure a cornerstone member of the O-line as we look forward 3-4-5 years. He and Jed are the building blocks moving forward. The others are now placeholders. Conklin could be as well.
Note to those who get riled up: Placeholder doesn't mean the others suck. It just means they probably aren't here in 3 years.
I think some of this year's FA are going to be very happy that they "settled" for one year deals. I read recently that the salary cap could go as high as $230M after the new deal was struck.
We have one of the most stacked rosters in the NFL, and are Top 10 in available cap space.
Andrew Berry is a God.
Berry & Depo, forever.
The really great thing is they have built the roster in such a way that they #1 raised the level of play on the field #2 Made the Brown organization into a stable organization. #3 Good players are signing up to play with us because they can see this Team is trending towards a dynasty and they want to be a part of that.
On every level of this team we are gaining player approval, the fan base is growing into I believe the new America's team.
Thrilling for all of us who have watched every other attempt fail. And with the talent we now have and will attract in the future this team edges closer to a destination not a one of us ever expected.
We truly need to see tangible results this season, and I see no way we won't. I never thought I would see what we are seeing but I believe I clearly am seeing the building of the next great NFL dynasties.
At least whisper the word dynasty. That is a pretty big word.
In my whisper.. pssst..you might be right. The key to that is some of our mid round guys need to turn in to solid, productive members.
No doubt you have to hit on your 1st and 2nd rounders. Those guys need to at minimum turn in to plus players or better. You can't miss on many of those. It's the 3rd through 5th round that are going to make the difference. Those guys are going to be the bulk of what makes the real difference.
At some point, good teams aren't defined about their star players. They are determined by how good their meat and potato player become.
What's it going to be when we have to start paying Mayfield, Ward, Chubb
A lot of that has to do with cultivating a sense of the "D" word whispered above. If those players are willing to take fair but not maximum deals, it could work. Of course the PA will, as always, advise getting every possible $. In the end it comes down to; do they want to stay or chase the money?
Not knocking what they've done so far, but their real test will be to keep the overall talent level up when they start having to pay going rates for a fQB and All-Pro feature back. I'm rooting for them, obviously.
but their real test will be to keep the overall talent level up when they start having to pay going rates for a fQB and All-Pro feature back
Agreed on the fQB but I don't think it matters on the RB (1) because of the cost of the position relative to other positions, and (2) the value of the RB spot overall.
Possibly. We'll see how far Baker can continue to progress. I don't think he's at the point yet where if you take away Chubb and Hunt and replace with an average/mediocre and the offense would NOT grind to a halt.
What's it going to be when we have to start paying Mayfield, Ward, Chubb
A lot of that has to do with cultivating a sense of the "D" word whispered above. If those players are willing to take fair but not maximum deals, it could work. Of course the PA will, as always, advise getting every possible $. In the end it comes down to; do they want to stay or chase the money?
There's that, but a new TV deal is hitting at just the perfect time for us in this regard. We're going to be Ok. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if these guys have theoretical numbers projected out four seasons from now with a 100 different scenarios planned in each one on how we'll approach free agency and various position groups.
Depo's job is building strategy... it's those kinds of plans. Those plans are built using everyone's favorite buzzword: analytics. We amass all the data we can, then we use that data to plug it into scenarios. Heck, with just the information freely available on the internet, you could build a NFL GM simulator that allows you to play out every possible scenario. Obviously, the further into the future you push with it the less accurate it becomes, but it wouldn't be an overly complicated system to build; the complicated part is gathering and connecting the data.
With data like that, you now have an idea of where you need to go with everything and you can picture how Move A impacts what other moves you need to make and what other types of players you need to bring in. Hell, in today's world, a coach could even sit with Berry and tell him exactly what sort of player he envisions needing, then Berry could use data to filter through a list of players whose qualities fit what we're looking for, then we filter that list until we find one that fits our needs AND fits the strategy.
I'm not saying that this is precisely what we're doing, but I am saying that everything exists right now for us to be doing something exactly like this; even publicly available to all of us, much less the proprietary information they have available to only them. At that point, you've figured out what you need to do, you've found a player that fits that, now it's just the human part of negotiating with them to get them to come here at a level that works for us.... but, you have a simulator that let's you see how it impacts things if you have to give up a bit more than you prefer.
Also, if the team DOESN'T have a system like this, they SHOULD. And, they can feel free to reach out and contact me about hiring me to build it for them, lol... I just need data sources.
Man I hope so but let's not get ahead of ourselves... we got a long way to go before considering ourselves a dynasty... we're not that far removed from the 0-16 season...
I 100% agree we are in the best position and have the best FO/coaching staff we've had since the return.... but let's not crown ourselves yet...
I will be curious what we do with Chubb. Will he stay and want to win here or will he chase money? I don't think we'll break the bank with Chubb. Or maybe we do but for a shorter term?
I'm one who says RB isn't a make or break position. With that said Chubb is really easy to root for and I'd prefer him to stay but I'm not going to be that upset when/if we part ways like I fear many fans will.
I will be curious what we do with Chubb. Will he stay and want to win here or will he chase money? I don't think we'll break the bank with Chubb. Or maybe we do but for a shorter term?
I'm one who says RB isn't a make or break position. With that said Chubb is really easy to root for and I'd prefer him to stay but I'm not going to be that upset when/if we part ways like I fear many fans will.
I don't look for Chubb to be an issue to re-sign and I think the Browns will make a fair offer to retain him. I love the guy but this is a business RB don't have long shelf life's and that should also be how the Browns make a deal to retain him I would think 3 year extension. In the 12-15 million per range perhaps guarantee the entire contract?
Man I hope so but let's not get ahead of ourselves... we got a long way to go before considering ourselves a dynasty... we're not that far removed from the 0-16 season...
I 100% agree we are in the best position and have the best FO/coaching staff we've had since the return.... but let's not crown ourselves yet...
This roster is no joke and is stacked from top to bottom. I can't ever remember not sitting on the edge of my seat wondering what we would do if this guy or that guy got hurt. But with this squad I think we could sustain injury at any position and not lose a lot.
At this point me being early is likely true then again I feel very comfortable saying it. We are loaded with talent from top to bottom. I think we have the best roster in the NFL and I think we have a FO and coaching staff that is equally stacked.
Let's face it the stars have aligned and the ride is going to be incredible. Will have bad days for sure but we will win far and away more then I think any of us will allow ourselves to believe. This is a dream team, and a dynasty may be a strong term for a team that hasn't won on the big stage YET, but they are going to KS is a great coach and his staff has performed at a high level. I don't think that will change player development, buy in, no distractions are allowed to exist that aren't geared towards winning on Sunday. This is off the charts it's that good.
It is extremely difficult for Browns fans to be objective.
On one hand given the history of the past 20 plus years one path will point to being skeptical. This is a mirage and we are over hyping this team.
On the other hand we have been starved as fans. We want to believe we are a Super Bowl team. We want respect. We want the football world to acknowledge how great we are.
The 2020 season was reality. We earned our record. Any history before last year is irrelevant. We are returning the best of what we had in 2020 and we have improved the team defensively. At least we have on paper.
Now we have to show that the changes made have in fact improved the team. 2021 is still to be determined.
We have many reasons to believe that we are better. Free agency and the draft are viewed as a success.
At this time of year every team believes in what they have done. So there is that.
However, the most compelling reason to believe in this team is: The front office and the coaching staff.
If you buy into them then the rest is easy. If you believe Berry has brought in better players. And, you believe that Kevin Stefanski and his staff can get the best from those players.
Then you can believe that we have a great team "now."
That going forward we will continue to be a great team.
Results. 2021 we need to win the division and then win AFC championship. That puts us in the Super Bowl.
If you get that far there is no sense to not win it.
There you have it. That is the goal. All that remains is to attain that goal.
I will be curious what we do with Chubb. Will he stay and want to win here or will he chase money? I don't think we'll break the bank with Chubb. Or maybe we do but for a shorter term?
I'm one who says RB isn't a make or break position. With that said Chubb is really easy to root for and I'd prefer him to stay but I'm not going to be that upset when/if we part ways like I fear many fans will.
I don't look for Chubb to be an issue to re-sign and I think the Browns will make a fair offer to retain him. I love the guy but this is a business RB don't have long shelf life's and that should also be how the Browns make a deal to retain him I would think 3 year extension. In the 12-15 million per range perhaps guarantee the entire contract?
Hunt got 2 years $12 million, so I would think that it will take at least $6 million per, on average. I can see him winding up with 4 years and $45 million, with somewhere around $30 million guaranteed. We'll see.
I will be curious what we do with Chubb. Will he stay and want to win here or will he chase money? I don't think we'll break the bank with Chubb. Or maybe we do but for a shorter term?
I'm one who says RB isn't a make or break position. With that said Chubb is really easy to root for and I'd prefer him to stay but I'm not going to be that upset when/if we part ways like I fear many fans will.
I don't look for Chubb to be an issue to re-sign and I think the Browns will make a fair offer to retain him. I love the guy but this is a business RB don't have long shelf life's and that should also be how the Browns make a deal to retain him I would think 3 year extension. In the 12-15 million per range perhaps guarantee the entire contract?
Hunt got 2 years $12 million, so I would think that it will take at least $6 million per, on average. I can see him winding up with 4 years and $45 million, with somewhere around $30 million guaranteed. We'll see.
I would love to see us lock him up for four years somewhere in that neighborhood. That contract would be very team friendly.
I don't think we'll see us sign him until maybe mid-season.
Spotrac, right now, is listing his market value at $12 million per year; expecting him to get a 4 year, $48 million deal. Basically, Derrick Henry and Dalvin Cook kinda money... and he deserve that.
Any notion of only $6 million per year can probably be set aside right now.
I wouldn't be surprised, however, if we sign later this season to absorb the first year of signing bonus now, then have the deal go for another 5 years and allow us to really minimize the annual cap hit.
I agree with you that some people may be getting ahead of themselves here. But I think when you look at the situation you may see why.
One thing we all pretty much know is that you can't put yourself in cap hell and build a dynasty. You have to assemble a talented team in a manner by which you still have cap to roll over to the next season. That's much easier said than done.
Secondly, as we all had hoped, just as we will have rookie deals coming to fruition and will need a lot more cash, the new TV contract will be injected which will significantly increase the salary cap. This bodes well for us moving forward.
So to this point the foundation has been laid that is needed to build a dynasty. I do agree with you that doesn't mean it will happen, yet at the same time not many teams have been able to assemble this much talent and still be in this great of cap space.
But now comes the tricky part. You can't sign everyone you want to keep to FA contracts. Not everyone on your roster can make the big bucks. As such the Critical factor will be identifying and selecting the role players as the roster turns over. Just as your transmission is a major component in your car, if the U joints fail that prevents your transmission from doing its job. Such is an NFL team.
Those role players must fit your system. You must do a good job negotiating contracts and identifying and signing those role players. While we have a short window to see through as it pertains to this new FO, that window has a sunny view. To this point they seem to be doing a fine job at identifying, drafting and signing players that fit with what we wish to do within our system.
We have the brains in the building. We have everyone working in the same direction. We have every reason to be positive. That's no guarantee of success but it is a good indicator for reasons to see the possibility of a dynasty being built.
What I would add is long term is you must hit consistently in the draft. Each year of success puts you at the bottom of the draft order.
Look at the first round talent on this team. Myles, Clowney and Baker were the first picks in the draft.
Wills(10th) and Conklin(8th) are high picks. Ward(4th) is a high pick.
You have to be able to hit on picks later in the draft.
The longer you have success the more important the draft becomes. You have to develop players that you pick in later rounds. Some of these guys have to be starters.
Continuity in the front office of quality people that identify talent to fit teams schemes. Then have the coaches to develop that talent.
I think that Chubb, like Hunt, wants to be here though and that made a difference with what Hunt was willing to take. I'd like to have them both until their last NFL snaps if possible. I think we have the best tandem in football by far.
For everyone who is closely watching we are already seeing players sign with us for less money then they could get.
The reason for that is these players want to be a part of this, they see what we have, they see how they fit, and they to know this team could very well be the next NFL dynasty and who wouldn't want to be a part of that?
Will get a real good feel for how players feel when we resign our studs, and yes we have some real studs on this team. The players are clearly happy here and they either want to come here and play or they are willing to sign a team friendly contract to stay here. Cleveland is a desired landing spot, maybe the most desired landing spot at this point????
I think we all of us need to understand some players would rather take less and win more we saw that with JJ3 it was reported he was offered more but took less to be here. But will know even better when we re-sign, Chubb, Mayfield, Ward, Teller, etc. etc.
I say Dynasty because everything points to one.
For the fans who have followed the team closely through all these years of pain and suffering I believe you're ship has arrived going forward we will be one of the great teams of the next decade, I plan to enjoy every moment.
For me personally I have never dared dream of a dynasty I would settle for 1 Lombardi just one. At 61 and headed for 62 I have suffered a devastating back injury, I can hardly walk on top of all of that I was diagnosed with Cancer a month ago. The Dr. has said they will get rid of the cancer and maybe someday my nerves will regenerate so I can walk more normal.
For guys like me and really 1 of our number one fans Tabber we hang on and hope for a championship it's my dream to get one. If that happens I can leave this world happy.
But it's truly better then that we stand at the beginning of a great run like the Patriots have had for nearly 2 decades now IMHO.
At 73 you don't make long term plans. It should not mean a lot how a football team does. But that only applies for those not born in Cleveland.
It does mean a lot to many of us. This year has the markings of something special. I am really anxious about watching this team play. There are so many subplots.
Myles is posed for a huge season. Clowney comeback?
Baker goes bananas. Chubb wins rushing title. Odell comeback player of the year.
The defense becomes elite. JOK DROY. IMO JOK will be a monster player for the Browns.
But, nothing is more important than wins. Winning feeds the adrenaline and is contagious. I have expectations but I will reserve them for now.
The potential is tied to the passion of our dreams. Opening day can not get here fast enough.
j/c... We have been hitting on our draft picks starting with previous GM Dorset, thanks to the cash cow of picks n cap space by Berry and his GM, arguing starts...lol, But now with less picks and not top 5 Berry is kicking ass has been able to take negatives and make them positive via FA. Last year we had the worst tackles bang zoom Conklin and Wills making our OL one of the best. This year DB bang zoom JOHNSON III and Hill also gaining IRs like Delpit and Greedy also a weakness at DE bang zoom Clowney. Just best moves by Browns GM in a long time, Paul Brownesque Jmho
For everyone who is closely watching we are already seeing players sign with us for less money then they could get.
The reason for that is these players want to be a part of this,With Baker they see what we have,in Baker they see how they fit, with Baker and they to know this team could very well be the next NFL dynasty because of the potential In Baker! and who wouldn't want to be a part of that?
Will get a real good feel for how players feel when we resign our studs, and yes we have some real studs on this team. The players are clearly happy here and they either want to come here and play or they are willing to sign a team friendly contract to stay here. Because they like playing with and believe in Baker. Cleveland is a desired landing spot, maybe the most desired landing spot at this point????
I think we all of us need to understand some players would rather take less and win more we saw that with JJ3 it was reported he was offered more but took less to be here. But will know even better when we re-sign, Chubb, Mayfield, Ward, Teller, etc. etc.
I say Dynasty because everything points to one.
For the fans who have followed the team closely through all these years of pain and suffering I believe you're ship has arrived going forward we will be one of the great teams of the next decade, I plan to enjoy every moment.
For me personally I have never dared dream of a dynasty I would settle for 1 Lombardi just one. At 61 and headed for 62 I have suffered a devastating back injury, I can hardly walk on top of all of that I was diagnosed with Cancer a month ago. The Dr. has said they will get rid of the cancer and maybe someday my nerves will regenerate so I can walk more normal.
For guys like me and really 1 of our number one fans Tabber we hang on and hope for a championship it's my dream to get one. If that happens I can leave this world happy.
But it's truly better then that we stand at the beginning of a great run like the Patriots have had for nearly 2 decades now IMHO.
I added the white, I think the dynasty talk is early but there is potential for winning. -With Baker.
This year DB bang zoom JOHNSON III and Hill also gaining IRs like Delpit and Greedy
Agree with all your post - and I am excited about a lot of positions - but secondary has had a mammoth transformation and has me the most excited as a collective . . . it's all theory at this point, paper tigers, but man - that's more talent in the secondary than we've had the last 20 years.
This year DB bang zoom JOHNSON III and Hill also gaining IRs like Delpit and Greedy
Agree with all your post - and I am excited about a lot of positions - but secondary has had a mammoth transformation and has me the most excited as a collective . . . it's all theory at this point, paper tigers, but man - that's more talent in the secondary than we've had the last 20 years.
I think it might be more talent in a secondary than I've seen, ever, on any team - in theory. Six deep - three at CB, three at S - with starters that are all in the upper tier of the league, or projected to be there. A *lot* depends on how Greedy, Delpit, and Newsome pan out. Before their injuries last year, though, Delpit was having himself a camp, and I do recall reports being that Greedy was improving.
I mean, if Greedy/Newsome is our weak spot in the defense, that's not such a bad thing.
Good luck, BTTB, you’ll be okay becss as use it takes toughness to stick with the Browns. And I agree: I’ll settle for just one title. When win a Super Bowl in the next couple years, I’ll GW like that New York Rangers fan, holding up a sign when they broke a long Stanley Cup drought:
NFL, players' union agree to set 2022 salary-cap ceiling at $208.2 million, source says
2:49 PM ET Dan Graziano ESPN Staff Writer
The NFL and the NFL Players Association have agreed to a salary-cap ceiling of $208.2 million per team for the 2022 season, a source told ESPN on Wednesday, as part of the league's continued effort to project the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on its short-term business.
That doesn't mean the 2022 salary cap will be $208.2 million -- just that that's the highest it can possibly be, according to the agreement the NFL's team owners approved Wednesday afternoon. It's still possible that the league's 2022 revenue projections and/or 2021 revenue shortfalls could result in a lower cap. But if the revenue-based 2022 calculations call for a cap higher than $208.2 million, then any excess revenue will be used to pay back the roughly $17 million in 2020 player benefits that were canceled as a result of the pandemic.
The 2021 salary cap is already set at $182.5 million per team, which is a significant COVID-related drop from the 2020 cap number of $198.2 million per team. The 2021 cap number is based on the league's projected revenue for the upcoming season and the revenue lost in 2020 due to the pandemic, which kept teams from filling up their stadiums. Before the pandemic, the cap had been growing reliably by about $10 million per year. Had that pace continued, the 2021 cap would have been about $208 million and the 2022 cap about $218 million. So even this high-end $208.2 million number in 2022 wouldn't mean cap growth has "caught up" to its pre-pandemic pace. But it would represent a roughly 14% increase from the 2021 cap and the highest one-year jump in the nearly 30-year history of the NFL salary cap.
At this point, the exact 2022 cap figure remains difficult to project. It's possible that the league's 2021 revenue projections end up being low, since they may not have factored in the possibility of full stadiums all year, and the league now says full stadiums are the expectation. Should 2021 revenues outpace projections, that difference would be added to the 2022 calculations and could result in the 2022 cap getting to or close to that $208.2 million ceiling.
Should the figure go beyond that, the extra money would be used to accelerate the timetable for paying back player benefits that were canceled last year. As part of the July 26, 2020, agreement between the league and the players on COVID-related amendments to the collective bargaining agreement, $17 million in 2020 player benefits were canceled, including the second career savings plan, severance pay, performance-based pay and others. The initial agreement said that those benefits would be repaid to players as a new benefit established after 2023 (when, it was assumed, there had been enough time for the league's economics to recover). The new agreement allows for the possibility of those benefits being repaid to the affected players as early as 2022.
Unless covid craziness comes roaring back, or Ozzy eats another bat, the league revenue should be WAY up and recovered this year, and we should end up pretty damn close to that $208M.
