DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Biden calls to raise the federal minimum wage to $15 per hour

Since they are going to cut the tip credit, be sure to tell serves they won't get tips anymore.

I tip at least 20% or $3 minimum, yes, even for a couple of donuts and a cup of coffee.

I'll bet that most servers and tenders won't be thrilled with that idea. I'd bet many make more than $15 per hour, and that isn't even considering that most servers and tenders manage to stick a few bucks in their pocket that never gets claimed. Nobody is watching them count their tips. As long as people like busboys, and dishwashers get tipped appropriately, and they claim enough to keep the employer off the hook from making up wage, nobody cares.

Heck, this might increase taxes collected because the IRS now knows what these people make. They make $600 a week. They won't get tips from me and most anymore. That will now be built in to the cost of the plate of food.

If you bothered to read and understand what I have posted, you'd see I have said as much, often times. But, apparently, when you see 'arch', you lose reading comprehension?

Yep. Tipping will die. Servers, confusingly the "poster child" for overworked and underpaid, make over $20 per hour... they'll be taking a 30% haircut and will now pay full taxes, since they notoriously under-claim their tips.

According to Google, 1.7 million workers (barely 2% of the workforce) actually works at or below minimum wage.. to put that in perspective, there are 5.2 million workers between the ages of 16-19 according to BLS.

So even among the 16-19 demographic, only a small percentage actually work at minimum wage.. assuming most of those making minimum wage are in that demographic..

So it's not just about minimum wage.. if MW goes to $15/hour, those who currently make $10/hour are going to want to go to $18-20.. and so on up the chain.. nobody, with years of experience who has seen some pay increases is going to allow themselves to be passed by..

Now going from $7.25 to $15 is a 107% pay increase.. the higher up you get, not everybody is going to get a 107% pay increase.. but to your point, also according to Google, a McDonalds Shift Manager makes, on average, $11/hour.. so to those who simply say, just stick with a job, work your way up... You can work your way up to shift manager (I honestly have no idea how long that takes) but you get manager in your title.. and you get to make just over $22K/year for it... it's hard to "work your way out of poverty" with that rate of increase.

Rewarding slugs is the socialist way.

You do realize that for a minimum wage increase to have any impact on a person they have to have a job? They actually have to go to work?

Isn't that the exact opposite of rewarding slugs?

Is that how that works?

i

Isn’t that what tipping is? Here’s your extra pittance server. And you do know most servers are part time and don’t even qualify for min wage, and BTW all restaurants of Europe don’t do tips. Makes for much more enjoyable diners and avoids awkward moments.

DC and Pit are having a great conversation, which I really enjoyed reading...

...and then of course the sensationalism gets thrown in.

I just wanted to quote this here so maybe you can reflect back on it and possibly see what you've done here. You do realize that there have been more than a few posters who have stated this or something similar, right? That not everything I post is meant to be an argument.

At first you seemed to want to have an honest discussion. So I tried to treat you in kind. You came out of the gate claiming I would make some smart ass remark in response to you. I told you I wouldn't and I didn't.

You had the opportunity here to point out the things in my post that you agreed with and disagreed with. To make counterpoints to the things you disagreed with and have an honest discussion.

What you came back with was your own "smart ass comment". This is why I often treat you the way I do so don't be expecting another opportunity to have an open discussion with me again any time soon. You'll get exactly what you deserve.

Making sure those that prepare your food and wash your car live in abject poverty is the ballpeen way. I mean as long as you tip your servers well, right? And by using the term "slugs" to describe them speaks volumes.

I don't think we actually disagree that much in your post. Wages would certainly go up across the board. It isn't just about "minimum wage". People making well above the minimum wage still aren't able to "get ahead" as you pointed out by your example of a McDonald's manger making $11 an hour.

When you have put in the time, worked your way up and made manager, one would think you could make a wage that would at least make it possible for you to do some of the things the "pull your self up by the boot straps" say you should be doing. Things like have an emergency fund. Actually be able to have at least some form of savings. Be able to start a 401k for your retirement.

Should being a manager at McDonald's be your ultimate goal? I'm not going to wade in on that because that's certainly not my call to make. And I'm quite sure that there are managers of fast food places that make much more than that at their jobs. I'm simply using the example you provided.

Now just to make it clear, I do not think being a manager at a fast food place should make you wealthy. I think no matter your job or profession there is a ceiling to what one can realistically make. But at some juncture we have to arrive at a starting point at which anyone who works 40 hours can live without the American taxpayer having to subsidize their pay through housing costs, healthcare and child care for their children and food.

We have to make it so working gives people some incentive to get ahead. A realistic expectation of the opportunity to get ahead moving forward. There are certainly those in our society who will not work. There are also many people who see no real incentive to work and are frustrated by having tried and tried to get ahead by working and it just never really seems to get any better. It's the second of those two groups that we need to change things for.

Side conversation:

I know that I mentioned the GS Pay Scale before, but just as an aside, in Dayton, Ohio, the GS Pay Scale doesn't get to $15/hour until GS-3 Step 4. I'll be curious to see - if this all passes - what that does to the federal employee pay scale.

Man that's a low pay scale! I have zero idea how any of that works or how they arrive at that scale. Any information you can provide to help better understand this would be appreciated.

Yeah, no worries! I thought I'd bring it into the discussion just due to the shear volume of federal employees out there, and because I'm one myself .

I got it from the 2021 pay tables, which are separated by region. Because of Wright-Patterson, Dayton actually "punches over its weight" when it comes to the locality adjustment, so there are a decent amount of places, like elsewhere in the Midwest or "Rest of the United States" which are lower.

Anyhow, here is the link:

https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/2021/general-schedule/

The column to the right shows the hourly data. I'd have to imagine that - if $15/hour is established as the minimum - that the whole table would adjust.

I suppose if you want to look at it that way. I don't.
I don't know the employment status of most servers. I know the status of the places I go, and I see the same servers in there all the time. I also know nothing about leaving a pittance. A good example for Browns games. I go to a bar to watch games. My bill might come to $17. I leave her $40...I figure me sitting there for 3 hours or more has to be worth something to her.

My wife has family in Switzerland. We have been to Europe maybe 25 or more times over the last 45 years years. I am well aware of European dining customs.

In a way, I look forward to no longer tipping wait staff, cab drivers, bell hops, etc.

See, that is where you and other jump to conclusions. I shouldn't even answer you, but I will.

My comment is directed towards people who stay stuck in minimum wage paying positions.

I lived within 10 to 20 miles of Wright Pat for most of my life. When my dad got out of the military he came very close to taking a civil service job there. He was a Mstr SGT in the army.

I certainly think the pay scale across the board would go up and I'm still very surprised that the pay scale is currently that low.

Yeah calling servers staff slugs isn’t sensationalism right?

That is GS base pay. When you start adding in living, food, medical, dental and food allowances. Also add decent allowances for number of dependents. It’s a livable wage. But still it’s near poverty level.

Then maybe I should ask you what you call those who won't work?

Do they go from slugs to being parasites? You see, while we disagree on a lot of things, I understand that it's reasonable to expect people to try to work their way up. To not be stuck at "minimum wage".

But saying a guy who may wash your car as "a slug" or that because a guy is flipping burgers he is "a slug" is nothing more than being a nasty human being.

Because let's be clear here, even if you start out at minimum wage it takes a long time to work your way up to a living wage. And it seems as though you feel as they work their way up and still are making a very low wage, they are still slugs.

Next time you leave the car wash, make sure you tell the guys what a good job they did and then remind them that they don't deserve to make a living wage and they're nothing more than slugs.

Calling others names because you somehow feel they are beneath you or that even though they work every day they shouldn't be able to make a living is not attractive.

I apologize Perfect. It was a quick reply, not a reply to you specifically. I understand your name showed up.

It's actually the full blown salaries. You can go through each locality adjustment. The Dayton grid that I cited would be the full blown salary that shows at the top of your leave and earnings statement.

Hate to keep harping on McDonalds, they aren't the one out there doing it but they are one of the companies, for which information isn't that hard to find.

Did more Googling on how long it takes to become a shift manager.. said it varies but the one person who spoke up said it took him 6 years.. 6 years to go from $7.25/hour to $11.00/hour.. WooHOO.. worked their way above the poverty line at 24 years old and can now live comfortably on that $1,900 per month (before taxes)...

You do realize most of those people like their jobs. Who are you to tell them where they should be working? McDonald’s can afford 15hr for their labor force. They could raise everything on their menu a dollar and not loose business. Hell they could probably charge for parking. People are so addicted to their greasy food.

I haven't had their food since the day the Browns, while missing many players, lost to the jets.
Because their addicting food made me feel like I had received an injection of salt, intraveinously.

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Hypothetically, I call for a reduction of the federal minimum wage to 1 dollar and 75 cents per hour.

For workers under the age of 19, and I call for federal labor laws to allow workers age 12 and up.

Then I can call for a capp on federal Maximum wage law of 11 dollars and 30 cents per hour.

Then we can do away with cash and require everyone to use federally licensed banking systems to receive wages.

If it's all done electronically, we can seize control of all assets across the country, use satelites to monitor movement and resource usage, and keep everyone just above starvation levels,
if they comply.

If you do your recycling, you can have access to sugar and salt.

Anyone who complains can be made an example of, and endure harsh punishments.

Isn't unity grand now that everyone agrees.

(Well of course not, because there has to be a continuously punishable class, the system doesn't work without a continuously punishable class.)

How bout we play this way, Hypothetically, I'll break into a fictional house and steal all the belongings including the car,
yet before hand,

meanwhile, I'll take a few years and install a newspaper report that the fictional homeowners are car thieves, that their home violates the environment and they believe in some crazy wacko character like santa clause who comes in and steals belongings from peoples houses.

Then, after I take this fictional home and car, and the owners cry foul, I'll point out that they are just believing in some fictional santa clause type of conspiracy,
I'll call it Q'bert, (or maybe that's trademarked by some video game)
What else could we call it,
Q' something...
Q' Q' ...

OH well, can we just have unity.

This always used to be one of my points, if you raise the minimum wage to whatever a lawyer makes per hour, and then enforce it, then lawyers will make minimum wage.

But understand, the point of politics is not to make sure that lawyers make minimum wage, it is to make sure that you do.

Lawyers will raise their fees to 30x minimum wage and those making minimum wage still won't be able to afford a lawyer.

You get it.

I think it's quite noble of some of you to support keeping Americans working 40 hours a week and living in poverty. Excuses and rationalizations to continue a sub culture of poverty that you have serving you.

Murica!

These are obviously pretty extreme examples, as I'm sure you're already aware. I won't even go into the poster's rationale that got the ball rolling on this tangent.

The purpose of the minimum wage is to establish a floor to prevent exploited labor, which is precisely what happened with Gilded Age sweatshops. There obviously needs to be a balance between avoiding exploitation and wage inflation.

I can see the vantage point of smaller companies in less populated areas with lower costs of living being harmed by a minimum wage that is too strong, and I can see $15/hour not being enough in places like San Fran. I made the suggestion of having a regional cost-of-living variance for the minimum wage similar to how the GS pay scale is determined.

Since that time, I was told by one poster whose views I believe to be very biased toward one end of the political spectrum that it was a done deal and that I was "dismissed" and now it has devolved in the other direction to sarcastically state "why not make it $2,500/hour?"

I guess that's just the kind of world we live in right now, though. It's the same in DC. I'm just not sure which one is the chicken and which one is the egg.

Bump...

I'll be curious to see where this ends up in the coming months.

I'm not actually disagreeing with you on the idea of a variable living wage. And it's possible that I'm misunderstanding the part of your post I put in bold. It seems to be a popular train of thought that the purpose of minimum wage was to stop exploitation. Or some below poverty, can't really make a living on it, floor.

But let's take a look at what FDR said that minimum wage was for, why it was passed and what it is supposed to accomplish.



As I stated, I may have misunderstood your intent here. But let's face it, we hear that same line all the time that goes something like this..... "Minimum wage was never intended to be a living wage!"

History dictates otherwise.

I don't think we disagree.

I just wasn't sure. Often times it's hard to judge someone's actual intent in the printed word.

Ha, tell me about it! I can't count how many times I've gotten in trouble texting back and forth with my wife.

Yeah but when you mistakenly think you're texting a buddy and start texting about the strip club, you kind of bring that on yourself.

All I asked him is what strippers would be best to get the job done for me! I'm just trying to repaint areas of my home!

That's because that was MY wife

The plot thickens...