DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2021 NFL Season 2021 NFL Draft Random draft thoughts

I think that is a safe bet. I am not going to be fanboy and claim our FO is the greatest of all-time, but with a couple of Brainiacs like Berry and Depo making the plan and setting the details, and fellow brainiac Stefanski evaluating every aspect of team play, I will say nothing much escapes them.

They are probably working on plan D at this point. Between the three of them, I think the vision is clear and focused.

I do feel we have a smart bunch of people at the top of the Browns organization. With that being said, with the 2020 season being impacted by Covid, with some conferences having shortened seasons and no real NFL combine, the evaluation process will be tougher for everyone.

Ballpeen, you didn't use the word but you were definitely talking about the new Browns corporate-speak, "alignment". It doesn't necessarily give us an advantage over the entire league but it does put us on equal footing among the better franchises.

Peen, give us the rundown on TJ Slatton. Did he play in 2020? Not sure. Tell us what you think of his possible fit on the Browns' interior. His highlights are intriguing and he made plays against SEC offenses.

no doubt. There is no telling how many actual games and practices the various scouts attended. In past years they were at 2-3 team practices and at least 1 game. Most of the scouts don't live in Cleveland. They live in their assigned area. They file their reports. They might only get to Cleveland for a few group meetings a year.

At least everybody is on the same field. However much harder it was for us, it was the same for everybody else.

I know there are national scouting services in addition to guys we probably use for our scouting info. Many or most teams subscribe to 1 or more. Everybody gets the same info, but it is a good baseline to add to your own scouting effort.

I agree that while the events surrounding Covid makes it more difficult, it will be just as difficult for all 32 teams. I do feel we'll see more players who will be really good in the NFL drop in the draft as a result. I mean we see some of that every year, I just think we'll see more of that in this draft than usual.

I mean in some cases teams played other teams where their opponents had starters from sitting out in Covid protocol. They had limited practices and games which means less game film to break down.

I don't believe that it destroys the process, just limits it more than in other years.

I am no scout, but I do watch Gator football. Technically I still have season tickets, but my buddy buys them for business purposes.

Slatton is a big [censored]. One player isn't going to move him, so he will be a very good run defender, and if you are looking for a NT, he's your guy IMO.

As a pass rusher, maybe not so much. He can collapse the pocket a good bit, but he isn't going to be a sack machine by any means.

As I said, 1 player can't move him to any degree in the run game, 2 have a hard time. In the pass game, 1 can block him long enough even if getting pushed back towards the QB....if that makes sense. He's more a bully, but paired with Sheldon, somebody isn't getting doubled. If he was there in round 3 I would consider it. Round 2 is probably a stretch, but it just depends how things shake out.

I'm curious to see where Togiai goes in the draft. If we go edge and cb in the first two rounds, I think he'd be a good fit if he's there in the 3rd. His ability to not only hold up but get push against double teams stood out to me. He was overshadowed on Ohio State's defense, but he was really missed against Bama.

Togiai is a viable option. I do like the fact that he's had a lot of experience as an under tackle so he has techniques for combating double teams. He also sheds blocks effectively. Togiai and Billings could form a decent 1 tech rotation.

Do you think this may cause our FO to take a more conservative approach to this years Draft than maybe they would have otherwise? Presumably with less evidence/data/film there might not be a comfort factor there with some of these players that otherwise could be. Do you think we might get a few guys we do really like but then a trade or two that might try to add capital for next years Draft?

Their system is big-time focused around data. If the data isn't there, it makes logical sense that they would maybe try to punt draft picks to next year.

j/c:

I've felt that way for a while. Comp picks are nothing more than a way for the NFL to keep good teams good. And the lack of clear and consistent doling out of picks enable them to give an advantage to their favorite teams.

One thing I won't try to predict is how a draft will play out. But based on the parameters you described it would certainly make sense to me. I think Oobers post summed up my thoughts about it pretty well. With less data it would make sense to punt at least some later picks down the road to next year.

That works two fold actually. Not only would that give you more draft picks in 2022 when you have more data, it would help some on your rookie salary cap hit for this year.

Here's the rub though. If our FO weighs all of this out and reaches the conclusion I've described, so will many other NFL FO's. That means you would have several teams employing and competing to make such moves using this same strategy. At that juncture the cost of making such a deal would be more costly and not as much of a value as it may be otherwise.

well, I broke the other draft topic... lol

Yes you did. Maybe you could go edit that URL out before the time expires to edit it?

it won't let me I tried.

I dm'd purp

If I'm following you, and the team uses a strategy of trading out of some picks for picks in 2022 because they don't have enough data to pull the trigger this year. Then that strategy would have to be employed while they're on the clock. I can't see them predetermining to use this before they can gauge if they are comfortable with their evaluation on specific prospects being looked at for the current pick. It doesn't remove it as a possible way to approach the draft but the later rounds are what? Five minutes to make the selection. A lot to consider and not much time to do it.

What I'm trying to say is that if our FO is using such tactics due to a lack of data, I think many other teams may use the exact same tactic. What this will do is create a situation where there will be more competition to accomplish such trades.

When multiple teams are competing to accomplish the same goal it's makes accomplishing that goal much harder.

I'm not trying to give what may seem like a realistic scenario here but an example of what I'm talking about.

Typical year....

You wish to trade an early fourth round pick this year for a team expected to have a late third round pick next year. In an average draft that would be a trade that makes sense. A player now has more value than a player next year in a typical draft trade.

But here's the problem. If several teams feel trading picks for next year due to a lack of data this year is the way to go, you have several teams out there that have zero interest in trading for this years picks. They too are looking to trade for next years players.

I'll compare it to this. When there are more houses on the market than buyers, it becomes a buyers market. When there are fewer houses on the market than the demand, it becomes a sellers market.

We would be in a buyers market with few teams looking to buy and a lot of teams looking to deal. That decreases your position of strength and the value of what you are trying to sell.

JC
My general feeling is that we are placing to much stock in to lack of data.

I think that teams are still going to have plenty.

Your take seems to match up with comments made by AB concerning draft preparation.

The special is the fact he doesn't get pushed out of the way, but yeah, he just doesn't jump out by making big plays behind the LOS. We both pretty much agree on draft position. 2nd would be a stretch, 3rd based on our daft slot is about there he starts to come in to play. I forgot we had two 4th rounders. He might be there for the first of those, probably gone by the last, but you never know.

I'd agree.
The team isn't starting to compile its data at the combine and pro days; that's where they are finishing up. They've been working on this likely since 2019. I'd be shocked if our scouts are ONLY looking at, and writing reports on, the expected current crop. If they aren't scouting at least one year ahead, then if a kid gets injured in camp of his last year (or if he sits out a covid season) we'd have nothing on them.

No, I'd be shocked if there was a dearth of data available to make decisions on. Sample sizes from the current season may be smaller, but I don't see that being a big deal.

No doubt. Colleges start looking at potential HS recruits their sophomore season. There is no reason to think that the pro's aren't starting to build a book on college players earlier than their draft year.

In todays era, you never know who might declare for the draft after their junior year.

I think game tape has always been the first measuring stick in evaluating the draft.

It may not always start there, but no doubt it has to show there and any in person views, be it games, practices, or interviews.

This is Random.

I think Travis Etienne, Rb Clemson: as a first round choice, would be a better choice than any first round cornerback could probably be.

Another Random thought, if I haven't already posted this, a dozen or one time before.

There are Two Quarterbacks in this April 2021 draft, that interest me, and there are only two.

Mac Wilson Qb, Alabama.
And Trask,(Q) Qb from Florida,

Would think I'd know how to spell his name but I really haven't been following this stuff this year, in fact: I think my draft opinions have a history of being better when I don't really follow things too closely.

Too much analysis can really take your eyes off the eyeball test.

What do you got against Trevor Lawrence, even Ohio State Quarterback?

We only have, had 28 real NFL teams in the 1980's when the NFL wasn't watered down. and even then, 5 or 6 of them were bad perennially.

There are some, several scores of college football programs, and umm Kay there are 5 or 6, Clemsons' and Alabamas' and what Notre Dame or USC used to be, but.

We are supposed to believe that every year, every QB who played at a top school, sometimes a lousy program like North Daktota anything, is supposed to be ready for the NFL,

or even that it's the NFL's job to take some of these and turn them into NFL QBs.

It seems the general consensous of opinion, is,

it can't just be a fact that some of these top college quarterbacks just should never be even given a chance in the NFL.

I watched Trevor Lawrence and he had a nice touch on a, a real nice touch on a few big deep outside sideline passes, about 4 or 5 times in that game. But 8 out of 10, maybe 9 out of 10 times he snapped the ball he didn't do anything that would be a successful play in the NFL.

I thought Sam Darnold had a nice touch on some middle-ly deep passes when looking at him in college but I didn't like his overall success rate, he hasn't translated real real well into the NFL yet, but maybe he still has some to offer.

I just don't think we have to give credence to the fact that just because there is another top program that the top player on the top team is automatically
or ever will be

You know, real good in the NFL.

I look at Mac Wilson, and Trasq, I look at, (posture, appearances of decision making, appearances of game leadership and apparent ability to recognize the competitive advantages of the outcomes of success vs failure in relation to the game situaions, as the myriad of numerous game situaions present themselves,

and Posture again, I see in them, the things I see, or have seen in 40 years of watching NFL games, of things the successful QB's in the NFL were doing.

I really don't want him to end up on the Steelers.

I think the right CB is probably a better fit for us, though. However, that CB probably goes before we're on the clock.

Meh, those 2 may have had the highest margins for error in all of college football.

Bama had guys running so wide open Trent Richardson couldn't have missed those holes. I think Mac might keep things going on a good team, but I don't see him as likely to elevate a bad team.

Trask could throw up lollipops all day and Pitts would go get them. I think he has a Kessler level arm- maybe worse. He might make a decent coach some day.

Adetokunbo Ogundeji from Notre Dame and Janarius Robinson from Florida State are some developmental DEs that look interesting for us to me.

Why when I read your comments it sounds like you are scolding me? If I am wrong, my apologies. I am not saying we need more data. We have at least as much as any other team. Between our scouting and data accumulation, we will be able to select players better than simply throwing darts.

I don't disagree and have said the Browns don't need quantity, we need quality.

I do like to add picks for the future because it gives you flexibility. I have also said I can see us moving up by using some of the extra picks we have this year. I could see us trading down out of the first based on where we are picking to get another 2nd rounder and something for next year.

In other words, we can do anything we damn well want, but in the end, I would be shocked if we used all of our 9 picks this year to select a player when 9 players will have a hard time making the team. Move up some or move some to picks next year, or some of both. It just depends on who is there and how we feel about them. I hope that clears it up.

Lately I've seen a few mock drafts that had Jamin Davis Lb Kentucky finding his way into the 1st round. Anybody have any info on him? Looks like he is 6'4 234#

He fits the part physically but he's raw, 1 year starter at Kentucky where he did a good job against the run but needs some work in the coverage aspect of the game. I see him more as a late 2nd early 3rd rnd pick.

Thanks, I figured he was a guy making the 1st round in mocks to give them different names.

Sounds like he could be a really nice pick late 2nd/early 3rd for somebody but not us. I think we really need a Lb who is good in coverage.

Daniel Jeremiah said he could have a Darius Leonard type impact as a rookie.

He looks pretty good to me. Shows good range sideline to sideline. Good depth on his drops. Nice burst on blitzes. Nice length. Had over 100 tackles in 10 games this season, 3 INTs, too.



Wouldn't hate picking him in round one, and doubt he makes it to our 2nd pick. I still think we have bigger needs, though.