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How ‘Owning the Libs’ Became the GOP’s Core Belief

The weird journey of a tongue-in-cheek catchphrase from conservative-mocking putdown to the defining tenet of the Republican Party’s way of life.

For a political party whose membership skews older, it might be surprising that the spirit that most animates Republican politics today is best described with a phrase from the world of video games: “Owning the libs.”

Gamers borrowed the term from the nascent world of 1990s computer hacking, using it to describe their conquered opponents: “owned.” To “own the libs” does not require victory so much as a commitment to infuriating, flummoxing or otherwise distressing liberals with one’s awesomely uncompromising conservatism. And its pop-cultural roots and clipped snarkiness are perfectly aligned with a party that sees pouring fuel on the culture wars’ fire as its best shot at surviving an era of Democratic control.

In just the past month, Sen. Ted Cruz self-consciously joked at the Conservative Political Action Conference about his ill-timed jaunt to Cancun, decried mask-wearing as pro-statist virtue signaling, and closed his speech by screaming “Freedom,” a la William Wallace; House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy tweeted a video of himself reading a Dr. Seuss book in protest of the supposed censorship of the children’s author (whose estate decided to stop publishing six titles on account of stereotypes in their illustrations); Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene erected a sign outside her congressional office in Washington declaring “There are TWO genders: MALE & FEMALE” across the hallway from the office of Democratic Rep. Marie Newman, whose daughter is transgender; even Rush Limbaugh, the late talk radio giant and progenitor of liberal “ownage,” got in one last braggadocious slap from beyond the grave: the occupation listed on his death certificate is “greatest radio host of all time.”

In one sense, this is the natural outgrowth of the Trump era. Inasmuch as there was a coherent belief that explained his agenda, it was lib-owning — whether that meant hobbling NATO, declining to disavow the QAnon conspiracy theory, floating the prospect of a fifth head on Mt. Rushmore (his, naturally), or using federal resources to combat the New York Times’ “1619 Project.”

But in a post-Trump America, to “own the libs” is less an identifiable act or set of policy goals than an ethos, a way of life, even a civic religion.

“‘Owning the libs’ is a way of asserting dignity,” says Helen Andrews, senior editor of The American Conservative. “‘The libs,’ as currently constituted, spend a lot of time denigrating and devaluing the dignity of Middle America and conservatives, so fighting back against that is healthy self-assertion; any self-respecting human being would… Stunts, TikTok videos, they energize people, that’s what they’re intended to do.”

“I can envision a time where [pro-Trump Florida Rep.] Matt Gaetz could pin a picture of [Democratic New York Rep.] Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez to his own crotch, and smash it with a ball-peen hammer, and he’ll think it’s a huge success if 100,000 liberals attack him as an idiot,” says Jonah Goldberg, editor-in-chief of the anti-Trump conservative outlet The Dispatch. “It’s a way of taking what the other side criticizes about you and making it into a badge of honor.”

And in a world where polarization driven by social media has equipped every smartphone-wielding American with a hammer, every political dispute looks like a nail. A year into the Covid-19 pandemic, viral videos of mask burnings and other forms of lockdown protest proliferate. The arch-conservative, troll-friendly webmagazine The Federalist more than doubles its traffic each year. Pro-Trump students are bending reformicon-minded College Republican groups to their will. In certain parts of the country, modified pickup trucks “roll coal,” spewing jet-black exhaust fumes into the air as a middle finger to environmentalists. Popular bootleg Trump campaign merchandise read simply: “F--- your feelings.”

“It’s a spirit of rebellion against what people see as liberals who are overly sensitive, or are capable of being triggered, or hypocritical,” says Marshall Kosloff, co-host of the podcast “The Realignment,” which analyzes the shifting allegiances of and rise of populist politics. “It basically offers the party a way of resolving the contradictions within a realigning party, that increasingly is appealing to down-market white voters and certain working-class Black and Hispanic voters, but that also has a pretty plutocratic agenda at the policy level.” In other words: Owning the libs offers bread and circuses for the pro-Trump right while Republicans quietly pursue a traditional program of deregulation and tax cuts at the policy level.

To supercharge those distractions, however, was the great innovation of Donald Trump’s presidency: He used the highest platform in the land to play shock jock 24/7, trading the radio booth for his Twitter account — thrilling his supporters by dismaying his foes. And despite Trump’s defeat in the 2020 presidential election — and the Republican Party’s loss of control of both the House and the Senate under Trump’s leadership — the GOP has largely chosen to take his strategy and run with it, betting on a hard-charging, antagonistic rhetorical approach to deliver it back into power in Washington.

That’s led to predictable tensions, as the party’s diminishing cadre of wonky reformists lament a form of politics that seems more focused on racking up retweets and YouTube views than achieving policy goals. Even so, Trump-inspired stunt work is, for the moment, the Republican Party’s go-to political tool. “Owning the libs” is no longer the domain of its rowdy, ragged edges, it’s the party line, with the insufficiently combative seen as inherently suspect and outside the 45th president’s trusted circle of “fighters.”

But despite its hyper-modern verbiage and social media-assisted dominance, the rhetorical approach deployed by Trump and his allies has roots that go back to the beginning of the conservative movement, with a party, much as it is now, fearful of a liberal status quo it saw as hell-bent on making it obsolete.

In 1952, the political mainstream was inflamed by the boorishness and recklessness of another conservative demagogue: Wisconsin’s Sen. Joseph McCarthy, then at the height of his infamous communist “witch hunt” within the federal government. McCarthy would eventually overreach to the extent that he was overwhelmingly censured by the Senate, including roughly half of its members from his own party.

One prominent conservative willing to defend McCarthy, much to the chagrin of nearly everybody to the left of the John Birch Society, was Irving Kristol. The godfather of neoconservatism wrote contemporaneously in Commentary that “there is one thing that the American people know about Senator McCarthy: He, like them, is unequivocally anti-Communist. About the spokesman for American liberalism, they feel they know no such thing.”

To Kristol, the certainty McCarthy signaled was worth commending, despite his argument’s lack of substance or his corrosive rhetorical style. McCarthy was a staunch anti-communist, but that was almost secondary to how thoroughly he infuriated his opponents, leaving no question as to where he stood. And given the incentives presented by social media toward ever more extreme political positions, it’s no wonder such stark, if reductive, contrasts are even more appealing today, to the extent that a spiritual heir of McCarthy’s could even win the White House.

“Irving [Kristol] wasn’t a McCarthyite, but the point is a good one,” says Goldberg. “When both sides are encouraged to take ever more extreme positions, I think for the average voter that sort of moves the Overton window a little bit where they say, ‘Look, I think Trump’s a jerk, and I don’t like what he says about immigrants, and blah, blah, blah, but at least he’s not for defunding the police, or at least he likes the American flag.’”

Kristol’s willingness to walk on the wire for such a reviled figure as McCarthy reveals another crucial element of lib-owning, beyond just its galvanizing moral clarity: its place as a tool of redoubt for those in the political and cultural minority. Take, for example, Kristol’s contemporary who perfected the art for the conservative movement’s long, dark years in the post-Goldwater wilderness — William F. Buckley, the National Review founder who relished making his foes look foolish on his long-running program “Firing Line,” and who, when asked why Robert F. Kennedy refused to appear on the program, famously responded with an impeccably troll-ish query of his own: “Why does bologna refuse the grinder?”

“Buckley had his version of ‘owning the libs,’ which was being more erudite and articulate than his interlocutors,” Goldberg says. “You take a certain satisfaction, sort of the ‘your tears are delicious’ kind of satisfaction.”

Buckley’s program lost some of its countercultural punch as the Reagan Revolution took hold in Washington, and almost inevitably, his successor George H.W. Bush’s “kinder, gentler” conservatism created an opening for those who craved redder meat.

Enter, if you will, the John the Baptist to former President Trump’s all-ownage-all-the-time messianic leadership: Rush Limbaugh.

When Limbaugh died in February after a lengthy battle with cancer, his transgressions against liberal good manners, to put it mildly, were widely noted. Limbaugh regularly filled the three daily hours of his program with invective against women, people of color, LGBTQ people and any number of other groups that didn’t include Rush Limbaugh, to the point where even he, the quintessentially self-confident blowhard, occasionally felt the need to admit he’d gone too far and apologize. But to his millions of devoted listeners, no remark was too inflammatory to be brushed aside in light of his peerless talent for owning the libs.

After Limbaugh’s death, libertarian writer Conor Friersdorf teed off on the late radio host in the pages of The Atlantic, not least as a wanting successor to Buckley: “Limbaugh advanced the smug hatred of liberals and feminists, took pleasure in mocking the left, fueled the ugliest impulses of his audience more often than he sought to elevate national discourse… He will likely be remembered more for the worst things he said than the best things he said, because unlike Buckley, who said his share of awful things, no Limbaugh quote stands out as especially witty or brilliant.”

Maybe to readers of The Atlantic. On the right, it was far more common to laud Limbaugh, as the “happy warrior” who validated the act of sticking one’s thumb in the liberals’ eye to a cadre of once-timid Chamber of Commerce rats.

“Liberals who didn’t listen to Rush, and just read the Media Matters accounts, never understood how *funny* he was,” National Review editor-in-chief Rich Lowry—himself a Buckley protégé (and POLITICO Magazine contributing editor)—wrote on Twitter. “What set him off from his many imitators was how wildly entertaining he was, and the absolutely unbreakable bond he formed with his listeners.”

Goldberg—who, by his own account, is no fan of Limbaugh—noted that despite the radio host’s self-confident bluster, his appeal was ultimately in providing a form of aggro-catharsis for listeners who felt embattled by the media’s pre-internet status quo.

“There really was a much more monolithic mainstream media, and what Limbaugh was doing back then was sort of giving equal time, as it were, to the other perspective,” Goldberg says. “As the country’s become more polarized, and we reward the outrageous beyond its worst, you get this race-to-the-bottom competitiveness, where people want to get noticed and have to be even more outrageous than the next person.”

And where, of course, for things to get more outrageous than social media?

“My entire life right now is about owning the libs.”

Thus the zeitgeist was spoke into existence in 2018 by Dan Bongino, on the NRA’s now-defunct web video channel. Bongino — a successful right-wing podcast host, who was tapped this week by radio giant Westwood One to fill Limbaugh’s now-vacant airtime in some markets — was ostensibly incensed by the treatment of Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh during his Senate confirmation hearings. But the subject of his outrage was hardly a material issue.

Take the man at his word: Bongino’s preoccupation, then and now, is owning the libs more than securing any kind of policy outcome or vote in the Senate. He’s continued to do so even despite quitting Twitter in protest after his account was restricted amid the January 6 riots; his content is consistently among the most shared on all of Facebook.

But in October 2018, Bongino’s declaration was revealing. Until then, the phrase “owning the libs” was mostly deployed by those seeking to mock conservatives for quixotically pursuing cheap applause from their base at the expense of a true political win (or, simply, their dignity). The phrase is barely apparent in the public record before 2015, when its usage on Twitter began to slowly ramp up; the “Own The Libs Bot,” a popular account which affixes the phrase “own the libs” as a non-sequitur to various random clauses, seemingly to highlight the perceived absurdity and desperation of Bongino-like figures, wasn’t even launched until November 2017. Perhaps the best example of this original, ironic deployment of the phrase just a month earlier described one particularly ill-conceived stunt by a campus Republican group: “owning the libs by wearing diapers in public.”

In those early days, even some name-brand Republicans got in on the fun, albeit with more of the tone of a concerned parent. Then-United Nations Ambassador Nikki Haley made headlines when in the summer of 2018 she addressed a group of high schoolers attending a youth leadership summit George Washington University. “Raise your hand if you’ve ever posted anything online to quote-unquote ‘own the libs,’” Haley requested, leading many students to do so and burst into applause.

With the patience of a Nancy Reagan “just say no” speech, the ambassador admonished them that owning the libs is “fun and that it can feel good, but step back and think about what you’re accomplishing when you do this — are you persuading anyone? Who are you persuading? … We’ve all been guilty of it at some point or another, but this kind of speech isn’t leadership — it’s the exact opposite.”

Unfortunately for Haley, a fairly prominent figure in the conservative world happened to disagree: her boss, the president of the United States. And while Haley has had her own very public reckoning with the tension between her ideal of leadership and Trump’s, it’s clear which has won out in the Republican Party.

Conservative social media is dominated by controversy-chasing attack dogs like Bongino. Donald Trump Jr. — a social media star in his own right who titled his first book simply “Triggered” — is considered a formidable candidate for the 2024 Republican presidential nomination should he choose to run, based on little more than his dynastic pedigree and talent for lib-owning. Gov. Ron DeSantis, who’s embraced Trump’s thirst for conflict more than maybe any other viable Republican presidential candidate, handily topped the 2021 CPAC straw poll of ’24 contenders — the one, of course, that didn’t include Trump himself.

Despite both the invited scorn of liberals and the quieter resentment of conservatives who worry their policy dreams might be tanked by a movement that turns off the moderate suburbanites who elected President Joe Biden, “owning the libs” is at the center of today’s Republican Party because, well, it works. Behind Bongino’s astronomical Facebook engagement numbers are millions of real people, ready to show up at voting booths in GOP primaries. In 2020, after four years of non-stop ownage, more people voted for Donald Trump than any other presidential candidate in history — save for, of course, Joe Biden.

“I can’t even count the number of times that people on the realignment side of conservatism, populist-minded conservatives, have said to me, ‘If only we had a candidate who believed all the right things and didn’t have Trump’s baggage,’” says Andrews. “I think that point of view is idiotic. Trump’s attitude had a lot to do with his success. You can’t have unapologetic populism without Trump’s personality. … ‘Owning the libs’ is something you do when you feel insecure in your social position, and Trump is the opposite of that. He’s confident, he owned the libs like a winner, and that’s what made him so special.”

Still, even many conservatives are skeptical that Trump’s particular genius at infuriating liberals and thereby rallying new voters to his side is transferrable to an heir. He might be one of one: the arch-conservative Sen. Tom Cotton notably stumbled in his own Trump-like attempt to whip up the base at this year’s CPAC, and his peers did little better, a few notable exceptions aside. Sen. Josh Hawley has a unique talent for infuriating liberals through his support of Trump’s conspiracy-mongering around voter fraud, but he’s a famously uncharismatic speaker. And, by now, Ted Cruz’s act is quite simply stale, lacking any real capacity for transgression.

“Ron DeSantis was incredibly aggressive towards the media, and a lot of people on the right that I know cite him as an example of someone knowing how to play to the base,” says Kosloff. “But how much is ‘own the libs’ just then a commodity product which all GOP politicians are expected to produce? Unless there are large levels of Trumpian ability, I doubt it’s going to be a breakout feature.”

Trump occupied a sui generis place in popular culture—he wasn’t just a lib-owner par excellence, but was seen as a businessman-outsider in the mold of Ross Perot; one of the first reality television stars; a cultural fixture referenced by everybody from Robert Zemeckis to Redman. “Owning the libs” might be a necessary condition for those who would seek to claim his mantle, but it alone is insufficient for general election success.

Even so, it’s difficult to imagine any serious Republican presidential contender, at least in the near future, winning a primary with a conciliatory platform akin to Jeb Bush or John Kasich’s from 2016. Trump has repeatedly professed his desire for a party of “fighters”—that is to say, inveterate lib-owners—and the fact that he’s still the most popular Republican politician of the past decade ensures he’ll have his way. It may be on a foundation laid by McCarthy, Buckley, Limbaugh and their followers, but today’s ownage-obsessed Republican Party is ultimately the house that Trump built.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2...-culture-477203


What a pathetic political stance... we can't lead and our ideas suck ass, but we cater to rich corps and love to own the libs. Sad in a time of such divides to have a whole party that just doesn't want to get along or work toward a better future because they are so obsessed with being marginalized that they would rather burn down the democracy than to take part in it's evolution.


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Both sides are too busy trying to own the other side, instead of working together for "We The People"


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That's true. It becomes a lot easier to justify your own inadequacies - or even maliciousness - when you have a villain to point out.


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It helps a lot when people actually elect a villain. One who actually doesn't even try to hide it. Who tells Georgia election officials he needs to "find votes" to overturn an election. Who withholds money approved by the senate from a nation to fund their war by asking them to "do him a favor" by investigating his political opponent.

Some people try to create a villain. Some people elect one.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Wow, did you ever just prove his point. blush


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I don't make the news, I just report it. Trump told more lies in a shorter period of time than any politician in history. Ignoring the facts won't change them. He said things that endangered peoples health and started an insurrection. Those are facts that people can dismiss if they like. But it's true. Trump did a lot of damage to America. The evidence is everywhere.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Many times the villains are legit, and sometimes they are boogeymen. Either way, I think the strategy is the same. For the legit villains, I think the focal strategy is more based on anger or resentment, and for boogeymen, I think the strategy is more based on fear.

The Dems could point at Trump as an obvious villain, like you mention, and that helped to galvanize the left, despite the discord between progressives and moderate/centrists. It also helped to shy away from areas where Democrats have dropped the ball. Sure, Trump did enough things to further himself as a villain, but actively vilifying Trump was also the #1 strategy of Democrats as well.

As far as the boogeyman strategy, Ted Cruz is probably the biggest proponent of this that I can think of. Incredibly fear based. Look at how he characterizes HR 1 in the news right now. His goals and ambitions are, to me, so obviously self-serving that he has to create a fear-based villain on the other side to keep up the image that he is defending Conservatives from a manufactured villain on the other side. "Owning the libs" to him is his number 1 strategy to show his constituents he's winning the battle and that he should stay in power.


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I can't say that I've ever portrayed any previous president as a villain from either party. I will say that I poked a lot of fun at W. I mean those Bushisms were hilarious. I disagreed with his decision to enter Iraq after finding out that some of our allies intelligence reports contradicted our own in regards to Saddam having WMD. That and Hans Blix had found nothing in over 700 U.N. inspections.

But I never thought of any U.S. president of not doing what he actually felt was in the best interest of our nation. While I may have disagreed with them over certain policy issues I felt they were doing what they felt was right.

Some certainly lacked the moral fiber to be president as was learned. Bill Clinton and Nixon both fell into that category. We can certainly add Trump to that list.

But I knew who Trump was. I knew about his history, his actions and a lot of his conduct. I just knew it would be a crap storm. I knew it wouldn't end well. I knew he felt that if you repeat the same lie often enough, people will believe you. I knew he would break every presidential norm that there wasn't a law written in stone to stop him.

I considered him a danger to our nation. In the end that proved to be true. While this doesn't refer to you personally, a lot of people simply dismissed anyone who spoke out about this as "hate" towards Trump. And for a lot of people that may have been true. My motivation was what damage he would do to our nation and democracy itself.

As we saw on January sixth, democracy as we know it is not the same.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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So you can own libs? I might buy a few, how much do they cost?

Where would you go to even buy one? wink

Note to the mob. That wink means I am joking. Plus, I wouldn't waste my money. Libs don't work so what use would they be?

Do I really need another wink?


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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You probably do since many of us think that wink is meaningless. wink


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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I don't disagree with you at all on Trump, and I'm not emphasizing any sort of individual villainization either. Just that it's the primary tactic used by both parties on an attack platform because it's easier to get away with your own garbage when there's a villain you can point to.


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When there are no external enemies, you turn on own.


There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.

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I put the libs I own in the garden so they can fertilize the vegetables with their BS.


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Originally Posted By: EveDawg
I put the libs I own in the garden so they can fertilize the vegetables with their BS.


Conservatives would use Brawndo.


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You wouldn't?


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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The liberals in my garden.


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It's what plants crave.


Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown

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Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
So you can own libs? I might buy a few, how much do they cost?

Where would you go to even buy one? wink

Note to the mob. That wink means I am joking. Plus, I wouldn't waste my money. Libs don't work so what use would they be?

Do I really need another wink?


They work great if you're smart enough to read the operating instructions... but some people can't even run their "VCR"s without help from younger people.


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Surprised he's not tied to your flower bed.


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A few months ago, I was listening to an interview with Frank Luntz, long-time Republican pollster/pundit/operative. This dude is about as solid right/deep red as they come. He was asked to define the current principles guiding the GOP at present.

I was going to paraphrase his answer because I was going to recount from memory. At the last minute, I tried looking it up. His quote came up so fast, because it was actually on his Wiki page:

Quote:
"You know, I don’t have a history of dodging questions. But I don’t know how to answer that. There is no consistent philosophy. You can’t say it’s about making America great again at a time of Covid and economic distress and social unrest. It’s just not credible."


That was the first quote.

A few seconds later, he said: [paraphrasing] "Nowadays- it's owning libs, I guess..." *


There is still a cadre of serious people on the right who see this for what it is, and they all speak of the same malady: a vacuum of ideals into which grievance and identity have been sucked. It deeply concerns them, as it should. In this assessment, they sound remarkably like folks on the left, folks in the center, and folks who hate politics in general. In other words: pretty much everyone else.

Luntz is no fool. I've known about him for years. There is no person more connected, savvy and effective in the game. If he sees this and can't find a way to spin it- that's a red flag.
I mean, dude's entire career has been Spin Artist.

And he admits that even he can't spin this.

If I didn't know better, I'd say that this party is at a crossroads. And there is no clear answer as to which faction will prevail.


.02


p.s. just before I hit the submit button, I read an update that Luntz has left the Republican Party. Guess the odds just changed. Again.




*I'll find a clip of that quote. When I make these posts, I aim to carry receipts with me.


"too many notes, not enough music-"
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Originally Posted By: Clemdawg
p.s. just before I hit the submit button, I read an update that Luntz has left the Republican Party. Guess the odds just changed. Again.


An interesting read on a similar note...

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/03/15/what-is-happening-to-the-republicans

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One needs to look no further than this very web address.

DawgTalkers became about “OwNiNg ThE lIbZ” right around 2015 leading into 2016.

Nowadays we get people posting white nationalist grifters such as Andy Ngo here, beliefs about covid being an escaped lab virus, and a lack of decorum on sexism. But hey, “keep owning the Libs!”

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Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
One needs to look no further than this very web address.

DawgTalkers became about “OwNiNg ThE lIbZ” right around 2015 leading into 2016.

Nowadays we get people posting white nationalist grifters such as Andy Ngo here, beliefs about covid being an escaped lab virus, and a lack of decorum on sexism. But hey, “keep owning the Libs!”


The great thing about being an independent is that while the left can laugh at the right, and vice-versa, I can laugh at both. Double the enjoyment for me.

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There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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The only liberals in your garden steal all of your vegetables. You don't even know what a liberal is.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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That was indeed an interesting read.

New Yorker is always a deep, deep dive. But they truly leave no stone unturned.

Thanks for the share.


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Originally Posted By: GMdawg
Both sides are too busy trying to own the other side, instead of working together for "We The People"

Both sides have their problems but right now the left has a platform.. In no particular order..

Raise the minimum wage
Get people health care
Increase renewable energy usage
Reduce gun violence
Create a society of equity for all races, genders, etc
Make college affordable
Stop covid and get people vaccinated

That's just for starters...

What is the right's platform?

AMERICA!!!!!
FREEDOM!!!!!
THEY'RE SOCIALISTS!!!!!

And this is the party that routinely blasted Obama because he spoke in lofty ideals and very little in specifics and actual plans to get things done. For quite a while now the right has been evolving into this political party that doesn't really convey a plan to do anything other than scream and try to whip people into a frenzy on nothing but pure emotion...


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Yep. The problem is they need to keep putting logs on the rage fire, or else they risk people actually seeing that they either have nothing, or worse, blatantly self-serving platforms.

And then things like January 6 happen, but it still doesn't curb the strategy. Then you have guys like Kinzinger, Sasse, and Gonzo speaking out about it, and actually getting into policy discussions, and they get censured for it.

Insane.

I think it has also gotten away, and will get away more, from the Republicans as the dynamic furthers. They're starting to turn on each other as a result.


Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown

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Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Originally Posted By: GMdawg
Both sides are too busy trying to own the other side, instead of working together for "We The People"

Both sides have their problems but right now the left has a platform.. In no particular order..

Raise the minimum wage
Get people health care
Increase renewable energy usage
Reduce gun violence
Create a society of equity for all races, genders, etc
Make college affordable
Stop covid and get people vaccinated

That's just for starters...

What is the right's platform?

AMERICA!!!!!
FREEDOM!!!!!
THEY'RE SOCIALISTS!!!!!

And this is the party that routinely blasted Obama because he spoke in lofty ideals and very little in specifics and actual plans to get things done. For quite a while now the right has been evolving into this political party that doesn't really convey a plan to do anything other than scream and try to whip people into a frenzy on nothing but pure emotion...


What's crazy is that there will actually be people that argue against those things you just listed. And a lot of the time, they don't have any solid argument other than the USSR or Venezuela.

There are a lot of "Right Wing" ideals that I agree with, but the Republican party is ridiculous. Their entire platform at this point is literally "socialists will destroy America!" or "Communists will destroy America!" or "our freedoms are being stolen by the Left!"

I mean, the Democrats are much better. At this point in time, it's almost political suicide to vote WITH the other party (I chose the word 'with' and not 'against' intentionally).

This entire thing is just broken and it's so sad being 31 years old and feeling helpless and that there is nothing I can do to change anything.


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Quote:
What's crazy is that there will actually be people that argue against those things you just listed. And a lot of the time, they don't have any solid argument other than the USSR or Venezuela.

Everything I listed is a noble goal and the debate should be about HOW to do it, not IF to do it... and there is room for debate in the HOW but the Republicans would rather just deny or say the capitalist market will fix it.. and it's time to admit they won't.

Quote:
There are a lot of "Right Wing" ideals that I agree with, but the Republican party is ridiculous.

Unfortunately the Trump base of the Republican party is doing everything they can to alienate anybody who is even close to a "moderate" Republican. Rather than accept the support where they can get it and try to invite them more deeply into the party... their goal is to call them names and push them away.

Quote:
I mean, the Democrats are much better.

At this point, the Democrats appear to be the adult in the room and the Republicans appear to be the petulant child.


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Originally Posted By: TI84_Plus
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Originally Posted By: GMdawg
Both sides are too busy trying to own the other side, instead of working together for "We The People"

Both sides have their problems but right now the left has a platform.. In no particular order..

Raise the minimum wage
Get people health care
Increase renewable energy usage
Reduce gun violence
Create a society of equity for all races, genders, etc
Make college affordable
Stop covid and get people vaccinated

That's just for starters...

What is the right's platform?

AMERICA!!!!!
FREEDOM!!!!!
THEY'RE SOCIALISTS!!!!!

And this is the party that routinely blasted Obama because he spoke in lofty ideals and very little in specifics and actual plans to get things done. For quite a while now the right has been evolving into this political party that doesn't really convey a plan to do anything other than scream and try to whip people into a frenzy on nothing but pure emotion...


What's crazy is that there will actually be people that argue against those things you just listed. And a lot of the time, they don't have any solid argument other than the USSR or Venezuela.

There are a lot of "Right Wing" ideals that I agree with, but the Republican party is ridiculous. Their entire platform at this point is literally "socialists will destroy America!" or "Communists will destroy America!" or "our freedoms are being stolen by the Left!"

I mean, the Democrats are much better. At this point in time, it's almost political suicide to vote WITH the other party (I chose the word 'with' and not 'against' intentionally).

This entire thing is just broken and it's so sad being 31 years old and feeling helpless and that there is nothing I can do to change anything.



What's even more wild to witness is many of your working class to even middle class republican voters would actually benefit from many of these Dem programs programs, but they routinely vote against their own interests.

For example from book I read on the issue....

The next chapter explores attitudes to the Affordable Care Act (ACA) in Tennessee, and the campaign promises by Trump to replace the ACA with the nebulously described ‘something better’. Tennessee used to be a leading light in healthcare in America, creating ‘Tenncare’ which was trying to expand healthcare access. However, the failure of this intervention along with deep seated historical factors resulted in distrust of government interventions and blocking of the ACA.

In a series of discussion groups about health, lower income white men explain that they would rather die than give minority groups or immigrants more access to healthcare, and view the ACA as a ‘waste of hard earned tax dollars’. Metzl describes this as a ‘tragic irony’ with those who depend on assistance for healthcare refusing government aid, with a desire to ‘live free but die sooner’. The author highlights some statistical modelling of ‘life years lost’ due to blocking the ACA, by comparing Tennessee to Arizona and New York. These states introduced the ACA and there was a reduction in overall mortality of 6.1% and in non-white mortality of 11.4% from 2011-15. This extrapolates to between 6,363 and 12,013 white lives that may have been saved if Tennessee had expanded Medicare. However, the resistance to government interventions and the frameworks of racially-fuelled politics blocked this programme. This is fascinating for health policy makers because the psychology helps you understand the contradiction between what is in a person’s best interest, and what they actually vote for.

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Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Originally Posted By: GMdawg
Both sides are too busy trying to own the other side, instead of working together for "We The People"

Both sides have their problems but right now the left has a platform.. In no particular order..

Raise the minimum wage
Get people health care
Increase renewable energy usage
Reduce gun violence
Create a society of equity for all races, genders, etc
Make college affordable
Stop covid and get people vaccinated

That's just for starters...

What is the right's platform?

AMERICA!!!!!
FREEDOM!!!!!
THEY'RE SOCIALISTS!!!!!

And this is the party that routinely blasted Obama because he spoke in lofty ideals and very little in specifics and actual plans to get things done. For quite a while now the right has been evolving into this political party that doesn't really convey a plan to do anything other than scream and try to whip people into a frenzy on nothing but pure emotion...


A great platform thanks to progressives.


Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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No new thread for this because he's not that important but RAND PAUL has become a traitorous laughing stock:



Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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I would like to posit another p.o.v. here, Milk.

In your post, you shared this thought:

Quote:
What's even more wild to witness is many of your working class to even middle class republican voters would actually benefit from many of these Dem programs programs, but they routinely vote against their own interests.


I beg to differ here. I'd say they exactly vote their interests/values. I say this because later on in your post, you quote from an article:

Quote:
In a series of discussion groups about health, lower income white men explain that they would rather die than give minority groups or immigrants more access to healthcare, and view the ACA as a ‘waste of hard earned tax dollars’.


I would say that their values are on full display right here.

Our problem with this is that we see the stunning level of illogic in such a stance. Shouldn't surprise anyone; these are the very people who have been told for generations that "if coloreds are doing better, it means you're doing worse." This has been going on at the hands of the power brokers since the days of Reconstruction. These folks teach their kids this almost from birth, and it takes a strong mind to break free of more than a century of conditioning, either by parents looking to raise their kids differently, or by the kids who reject this indoctrination.


.02


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That's an interesting point, Clem. There is definitely a zero-sum mindset right now. And, as long as we have people like Sean Hannity going on TV and reinforcing that "The world as you know it will end" mentality, we're in trouble.


Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown

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Interesting take from John Boehner on the republican party of the last 20 years or so in his new book.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/04/02/john-boehner-book-memoir-excerpt-478506

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That was a hell of a read. I’ve had some issues with Boehner, but I respected him far more than most people in the house GOP right now, except for guys like Kinzinger. He spoke at my wife’s Graduation at Xavier in 2006 and his speech was very good.

This provided good insight and confirms a lot of my frustration with what has happened to the GOP. The psyche he details is also very present. Hell, just look at this board.


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What Boehner describes from the inside coincides with the evidence I saw from the outside.

The saddest part of this whole scenario is that so many on this board took the same trip that JB was describing. I watched their posts follow the same trajectory, the longer they tuned into Murdoch, Ailes and crew.

Finally, in about 2013, I decided to tune in. Spent about an hour/day for a week or so. The first two days were crazily disorienting. The days that followed were mind-numbing. I simply could not believe what I was hearing from that network. Over time, I kept reading accounts of reputable journalists (Shep Smith) either defecting or being run out. Interestingly enough, I saw the exact same thing simultaneously occurring within the ranks of the CapHill GOP denizens (Flake, Boehner,etc.).

After that, I knew (as apparently Boehner did) that there would be no talking politics with the DawgTalk crew who mirrored the transformation Boehner just described. In 2015, I began limiting my convos to about 3 or 4 right-leaning posters whom I still liked and respected, and treated every other one like they were Stoolz fans invading the Smack Shack. I knew I wasn't helping the atmosphere, but I also wasn't willing to sign on as a perennial 'honey dipper' for this place. Where were the returns on that investment? When they go low, find that level. Meet them/beat them. Like a rented mule. Well that approach sucked too- and I hated what I'd allowed from myself.

Nowadays, I read much more than I write. It's better that way.

________________

I have watched this descent for almost 8 years now. John Boehner has given insight into what I have witnessed- and why.

Crazy Roger Ailes
Sean Hannity
Tucker Carlson
Laura Ingraham...

...and some damned foreigner who presided over all of it.

I knew I wasn't imagining things.
I wish the Politico excerpt was longer.


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Extremely well said. I’ve seen my very family follow that same path. On top of all that, you have foreign troll farms parroting the same or similar messages, but people keep following that rhetoric.


Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown

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Originally Posted By: Clemdawg


Crazy Roger Ailes
Sean Hannity
Tucker Carlson
Laura Ingraham...

...and some damned foreigner who presided over all of it.

I knew I wasn't imagining things.
I wish the Politico excerpt was longer.


Here's a deep dive from an article I read back in 2019.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/03/11/the-making-of-the-fox-news-white-house

On a somewhat related note, as it pertains to the media and their influence on society's behavior, I thought this was an excellent opening to The Donlon Report last night on News Nation.


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