DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Active Shooter Boulder CO

The name Assault Rifle is NOT PROPAGANDA.. It's what they are called.. Because that's what they are

People can claim they use them for shooting. I do and have for decades. And I'm sure they do as well.

But they need to quit pretending that is the purpose they were created to accomplish. They were made to kill people. That was their intent. They were either created as weapons of war or very closely mirror rifles created as weapons of war.

That is what you call them. I have never gone in to a gun shop or sporting goods stores with signs pointing to the assault weapons.

What were these guns originally manufactured for? What was their initial purpose?

Initial purpose? I suppose it depends on where you looked. Probably a cannon type device to shoot fireworks.

After that, defense and food.

So many uneducated people here. no clue what you're talking about.

I blame the white supremacists for this.

Oh wait. It was an arab and a black man.

The first AR-15 weapons were sold by Colt to the Federation of Malaya (modern day Malaysia) in 1959. In 1961 the United States Airforce tests the AR-15, commissioning 8,500 for Air Force use.

The AR15 wasn't even manufactured for civilian use until 1989. That's the actual history of the weapon no matter where you look.

Why don't you just admit that a rifle designed for military use was put in the hands of the civilian population regardless of politics or race. Nah, that wouldn't be very "Eve like".

I only speak for myself, but I'll admit to what you're saying so long as you admit that the actual rifle situation is nowhere near as unambiguous as you try to portray here. We're talking about a semi-auto rifle, not machine gun or like an Uzi or something.

Similarly, the 'assault weapon' definition is totally stupid. Maybe it's not propaganda, but it certainly isn't based in fact. Part of my move from Southern California back to OH involved transporting my rifle (yes, one of the scary ones). Technically, I had an "assault weapon" because it had a pistol grip... but the gun was inoperable. It didn't have a bolt assembly.

I actually own such weapons myself. I'm not a fan of the term "assault weapon".

While you are right that the ones sold to civilians are not "designed" to be automatic weapons, as we saw in the Las Vegas shooting it's not hard, nor is it hard to find out how to make them work almost as fast as an automatic weapon. You can even find Youtube videos on how to do it even though I won't post them. It's not information I wish to help share for obvious reasons.

I just think for us to hold an honest conversation we should at least be willing to come to some understanding of the facts.

Much like many people I target shoot with such weapons. But I could easily do that with a 30/30 carbine rifle. I don't need an AR15, AK47 or SKSAK with a 30 round clip or 100 round barrel to target shoot. While I do not use these weapons to kill people I'm not going to be dishonest and say I don't know the origin or original purpose for which they were designed.

Only a delusional or ignorant uneducated person thinks an AR-15 is designed for military use.

It's not fully automatic. Its a civilian single shot gun with scary looking plastic on it.

By all means shake in your boots about the scary looking plastic.

That's already been addressed. Try to keep up.

I have to continually correct you. Because you continue spreading lies.

While you continually troll just to try and stir things up while adding no real substance.

The first paragraph of my previous post is directly tied to my second paragraph. There's no such thing as an 'assault rifle', so what we're talking about is a semi-automatic rifle. The uses of a semi-auto rifle are varied from completely innocent to the most nefarious. Do you not like certain types/sizes of ammunition? Ok, IMO that's a conversation worth having. Do you want the legal system to have the ability to 'take someone to the woodshed' if they modify their weapon certain ways (ex. make it full auto or equivalent)? Ok, but current efforts to do this type of thing have been a fail, IMO.

As I stated, I actually own such weapons. So as far as having the desire to have them heavily regulated, that's not something I support. And yes, it is a semi automatic rifle. One that was designed very similarly to rifles produced as weapons of war which their designs simulate. Ones that can easily be transformed to be almost as fast firing as their fully automatic counterparts. We can break that down to the simple term of "semi automatic rifle" as you have done but I also have a Remington semi auto 22 rifle and let me tell you, there's not much similar about them.

What we do or don't do about them is up for discussion. I plan to keep mine. But when having a conversation about that I'm not going to try and compare or pretend that an AR14 or AK47 should be in the same category as my Remington 22 semi auto rifle. I would find comparing the two as rather foolish on my part.

Its nothing but scary looking plastic.

My fellow has a .22 rifle that looks like an "assault weapon" just because it has the scary looking plastic.

He also has a Bullpup which is nothing but a shotgun with scary looking plastic on it.


There is nothing that makes these military use guns. It is for appearances only as he likes "tactical style appearance" guns.

ummm... except they function just about the same. A .22 will generally use rimfire ammunition whereas larger caliber bullets have to be centerfire. I don't know as much about smaller caliber rifles as I have never owned one, but functionally the two firearms are the same piece of equipment that simply chamber different types of ammo. So that's why I roll my eyes when you say one was designed after an instrument of war and another wasn't... even though they both function exactly the same.

I don't really disagree with you in part. But there's really no getting around the fact that rifles such as the AR15, AK47 and the SKSAK are certainly designed from military grade weapons. In the case of the SKSAK they are produced on the very same presses as the original.

The problem is actually that they can be adapted to something that's almost fully automatic very easily and there are products on the market to make it even easier. There are Youtube videos showing you how to do it.

My only real proposal is that we take all products that make these rifles easily modified to be closer to automatic than semi automatic off the market and make sharing how to accomplish this have some consequences.

I'm not anti gun. As I've mentioned I actually own some of these weapons myself. As I've stated I plan to keep them. But if you look at what happened in the Las Vegas shooting, some of the very rifles we are speaking of were used. They were adapted to work much closer to automatic rifles than semi automatic.

What I am proposing is that we make every effort to prevent them from operating in that manner by any reasonable means possible.

My issue is with products designed to make them fully auto to a great degree. I will once again reference what happened in the Las Vegas shooting.

I haven't seen such products designed for my Remington 22.

And you can roll your eyes, but the only difference in an AK47 designed for war is it was fully automatic. And it's not hard to make the civilian model work in a very similar fashion. That's my issue.

I'm aware of what an SKS is, but honest question - what is an SKSAK? Is it some variant of the sks?

I'm ok with that proposal.

Yes. It's an SKS that has a slightly different design and holds an AK style magazine that is much quicker and easier to interchange.

Ah. I think I understand. An SKS was clip fed, from the top. Generally, I think, 7 rounds. An SKSAK is one that has been altered a bit to accept magazines? From the bottom - is that right? If so, I've never heard of it being called an SKSAK.

Actually even the sks's I bought in the 90's had magazines that loaded from the bottom. Maybe some older models loaded from the top. I have no idea. 30 round mags were very easy to find for them.

Here are images of the sks bottom feed mag style I bought. They weren't all customized when I bought them.

https://www.gamesatlas.com/cod-modern-warfare/weapons/sks

https://ctfirearmsauction.com/auction_item/norinco-sks-7-62x39mm-semi-auto-rifle/

While looking I did find one just as you described.

https://www.huntinggearguy.com/rifle-reviews/sks-review/

I can't say that SKS-AK is the standard term used for them. What I can say is that the AK style clip was used and we bought them set up that way.

We Democrats say guns should be taken from the mentally ill and Republicans say we’re coming for their guns. I can do that math. Need any help?

LOL....my bad. I read your comment as asking why were guns first made. Not specifically this gun.

No, the AK wasn't made to shoot fireworks...lol


Cool. It was a military weapon. The only thing with the weapon we can buy and a military issue is it fires a NATO round.

This is what I was trying to get at. A rifle is a rifle. Whether it has a wood overlay or the scary black plastic is really immaterial.

IMO, I could see regulations around the caliber for which a rifle is chambered. That makes some sense to me.

IMO (blunt but sincere)... Pit knows what he's talking about, but is getting hung up on people's ability and the frequency of modifying. Laws aimed at regulating per the features of a firearm have been tried, and I'll just say I'm not impressed at all. That was why I brought up my specific example ('assault weapon' that can't fire... my 'assault paper weight'). I think it makes sense to have certain features that significantly change the function of the gun (ex. bump stock) on a 'No-no' list. In CA, a rifle can be fine up until you add a pistol grip or many types of forward grips. This is stupid.

I agree. I don't see any real use for a bump stock other than it might be cool.

But people look at some firearms and see the boogie man because they look threatening. OOOOOOH

Most of it comes from people who know little or nothing about firearms. The problem becomes, when you look at it, that when the AR-15 and AK-47 rifles become the weapon of choice for most of these mass shootings, many in the public will turn against them.

We can debate the facts about these weapons all day and as people who either own or have fired such weapons we know and understand them. But that isn't really the point. Facts in our society have been dismissed and minimized. It's all about perception. If it weren't you wouldn't have millions of people buying into some of the whackamole conspiracy theories like we see these days.

Like one of our newest employees who says he will not get the vaccine because he is sure that the government is injecting micro-scoptic trackers with it.

I bet you haven't. And I doubt anyone would. They'd come out and ask for what it is... Meaning the title of the rifle..

But don't be obtuse. There is virtually nobody that doesn't know them as Assault Rifles.. NOBODY

Again, because of the propaganda put forward by the liberal media.

I am not even sure I can call them liberal anymore.

There is no need to own a passenger vehicle with more than 200 horsepower. What's it for? Getting from stop light to stop light 4 seconds faster? Going 100 on the interstate? That's the only value... one is just reckless and the other is illegal.

I am going to go out on a limb and say that we almost had another bad shooting in a market except for one guy saving the day. Dude was loading up big time in the bathroom. The picture of the firearms are in the link below.

An Instacart shopper believed he heard someone loading guns in a bathroom stall. Police arrested a man with 6 guns
Dakin Andone byline
By Dakin Andone, CNN

Updated 4:26 PM ET, Fri March 26, 2021
Atlanta guns supermarket witness vpx_00000112
NOW PLAYING
Man who alerted police about armed man speaks out
WSB




00:23
/
01:37




(CNN)An Instacart shopper who entered an Atlanta supermarket bathroom this week told police he saw an AR-15 style rifle and heard what he believed was the sound of someone loading guns in a bathroom stall.

The witness rushed out of the bathroom and notified staff at the Publix Supermarket. When police arrived soon after, they arrested a suspect as he was exiting the bathroom -- with six loaded guns in his possession.
The suspect, identified as 22-year-old Rico Marley, now faces a slew of charges related to the incident, which came just days after 10 people were killed in a mass shooting at a supermarket in Boulder, Colorado.
It was that tragedy that was fresh in the mind of the Instacart shopper, Charles Russell, he told CNN affiliate WSB.

"I saw an AR-15," he said. "And I was like, you know, this kind of startled me just again with events that recently happened in the grocery store up in Colorado."
Authorities have not said what they believed Marley intended to do with the weapons.
According to the police incident report, Russell was entering the men's restroom when he "heard clicking sounds from the bathroom stall."
"It sounded to him like someone was loading firearms," an Atlanta officer wrote. "He also told me that he saw an AR-15 style rifle leaned against the wall."
By the time the officer arrived at Atlantic Station -- a commercial and residential complex in Atlanta just north of downtown -- the supermarket appeared to have been evacuated, the report says.
The officer wrote that he donned a ballistic helmet and took his city-issued rifle into the store, where he immediately saw the suspect coming around the corner from the restroom, just feet away. The officer ordered the suspect to put his hands up and not move, the incident report says.
"The accused appeared to be surprised when he saw us that close to him," the officer wrote. Marley was detained without incident, the report says.
Suspect denied bond
After arresting Marley, police recovered six firearms: a DPMS AR-15-style rifle, a 12-gauge Maverick Arms Modell 88 shotgun, three semi-automatic 9 mm pistols and a .38-caliber revolver. All of the weapons were loaded and the rifle, shotgun and three 9 pm pistols all had a round in the chamber, according to the police report.
The suspect, who was wearing body armor when he was arrested, had the four handguns in his clothing while the rifle and shotgun were being carried inside a bag, the report says.

Marley has been charged with six counts of possession of a firearm or knife during commission of or attempt to commit certain felonies and five counts of criminal attempt to commit a felony.
Marley, who's being represented by a Fulton County public defender, waived his first court appearance Thursday, where Judge Rashida Oliver ordered him to be held without bond due to the "danger risk to the community at large." He's being held in the Fulton County Jail.
The Fulton County Public Defender's Office did not respond to CNN's request for comment Thursday.
In a statement, a spokesperson for Publix said the company was cooperating with investigators and that "the safety of our associates and our customers is our priority."
"We are thankful that there were no injuries, and all were able to exit the store safely."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/26/us/atlanta-guns-supermarket-witness/index.html

jc

While everyone is focused on guns, I think the bigger picture needs to be looked at. Why do these people snap and commit mass murder? If we succeed with gun control measures that keep them from getting guns, what is to stop them from using something else? We've already seen incidents where someone drives a car into a crowd of people. Humans killed each other long before guns were invented. If someone wants to kill a bunch of people, they will find a way. How do we stop these people before they do?

I don't know how we would predetermine who is about to snap without a full Big Brother state monitoring our every move.

Well, I do know the answer. The answer is God, and family.

Without those, we have a lost generation.
Note, I am not seeking to turn this is to a religious debate.

God can mean many different things and comes in many different religious views, even non-believers have a sense of moral guide, so we can leave it at that.

Just so we are clear - morals don't come from Religion ... and religion is responsible for 100+ million deaths from wars, persecution etc and then there's the protecting and hiding of pedophiles etc . . . Not sure "even" is an appropriate context here.

Just to be clear, you are comparing a car with an assault Rifle? Do you have any idea how crazy that sounds.