DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2021 NFL Season 2021 NFL Draft The EDGE could be the biggest move for us.

I don't even see the point of a 4-1-6. Why bother keeping even the one LB? Just go 4-7 and bring in an additional Box Safety. Why pretend you're doing anything else?

Because the NFLPA says you must have (contractually) a minimum of 1 LB on the field at all times..... ,

I mean, I guess you could just give your safeties LBer jersey numbers and throw them on your depth chart.

Not sure if Denzel War would appreciate being tagged as a LBer, though.

Linebackers have become 'tweeners". They aren't big enough or they aren't fast enough. With teams desire for speed, speed is where they go with the position.

Linebackers can still be called linebackers. The future holds that those guys will weigh around 215 lbs.

The traditional LB still have value on special teams where they are the "big guys".

I think you still need a guy or two who can take on O-linemen blocking at the 2nd level, but I don't think you need 3 of them if you have a DBs who can tackle.

I think the problem with that is Lamar is just a piece of their running game. While he gets a lot of attention due to his speed, what really makes their offense hum is the big boys up front and talented RBs that can tote the rock. I think if you load up against them with small/speedy guys is they'll just have Lamar sit back there and hand the ball off so they run right over you.

I remember when we drafted D'Qwell Jackson in 2006 and thinking, "Man, he's only 230 lbs. I don't know if he can cut it at this position."

Now I feel like he'd be middle of the pack.

Just shows how that as the QB position has transitioned to a dual threat, the lb position has had to adapt. It's the only defensive position that can unless O-linemen start showing up that weigh 220 lbs or the preferred receivers run a 4.9 forty.

If you have a fleet QB who isn't shy about tucking and running, you better have linebackers who can run with them as well as have coverage skills.

Which means that an offense built on Power Run with a big Oline and a mobile QB can destroy most modern defenses because most of the defense will be too light to fight through anything, even if they are fast enough to get to the right spots.

LOL , That's what me be saying for ever and ever !

Read my mind. Now let's see...which team has that kind of run capability....?

Exactly... and, so, how do you beat it?

You need fast, powerful DLine up front that can and will eat those power OLinemen but also get upfield and plays disciplined, and then you need speed that can cover behind it.

The good news is that this same configuration of big DLine that can move with speed behind it works against any offense.

I agree with that...my guess is...so does the Browns' FO+.

Well said, EO.

And keeping yourself low to the ground and maintaining leverage allows that speed to properly convert to power.

Even guys like Darren McFadden who were "suppose" to have this great combination of speed/ power lost all power because they would stand straight up when trying to play. Painful.

If we miss out on Watt, I like what I've seen from Payton Turner, DE, Houston (rather limited, though.) Hadn't really heard anything about him, but he moves well for a big man and might have one of the best motors (if not the best) I've seen. Apparently, he got some Shrine game and Senior Bowl buzz, but I hadn't really seen him in any mock drafts.

I'd say that this is a case of you try to do both.

Watt is a Here and Right Now player. That kid is a Maybe This Year, but Definitely in the Future player. Load, then make sure you have something in the belt to Reload.

For once I agree with EO. IF there is a DE available that is WORTH moving up for then I would have no problem with trading one of our 3rd round picks(two if he's a MONSTER but man he better be one) to move up to take him. We need another DE to bookend with Garrett. He was on his way to a monster year this year before he caught Covid. Add a guy capable of 10-12 sacks on the opposite side and we really have something to build around. Now, that is a BIG "if". The chances of there being a really good DE available at the 14-20 area where we might be able to move up isn't great. They are usually gone by then. But, if there's a run on QB's or OL... you never know how a draft might shake out.

The guy I would like to see brought in as a FA is Matthews. He didn't play last year. So maybe he is done. But if he does want to play, then why not bring him in as a part-time pass rusher to add to the mix. It would be a great story. His dad played here so he's a legacy. We SHOULD have drafted him. He's getting up there but then so is Watt. Sign them both. You can never have too many pass rushers.

What does everyone think of Joe Tryon? I see he is now mocked to us in Bucky Brooks new mock as well as Daniel Jeremiah's. He is 6'5,262 pound speed rusher. He sat out his junior year. As a sophomore he had 8 sacks.

[video:youtube]https://youtu.be/2bK-hvsk1gc[/video]

I don't hate him, but there are definitely a fair number of edge players that I would take over him assuming he hasn't had some crazy development while opting out of the season.

I am curious to see how he tests.

He does seem to have a good feel on stunts, but I don't really see any wow traits on tape.

I'd feel a lot better about taking him on day 2 of the draft rather than day 1.

Torry Holt was interviewing Greg Rousseau this morning.. Geez, he's big but the thing I heard was that he's very smart.. Loves football,,,, I'd love to have him also

I may be alone, but I don't think we'll go edge or LB with our 1st round pick. CB is a much more pressing need on this team, and I could see us moving up for the right one, at the right price. I don't see us doing so for any other position in this draft. (in the 1st round)

After the signings of Hill and Johnson, you still think CB is a pressing need?

Yes.

Greedy = Big ?

Injured all last year and was meh his first year. With a chance to get a top flight CB in this year's draft. I would say CB is a significant need and is most likely going to be the pick (IMO) at #26. Surtain and Horn gone, but one of Newsome, Samuel, or maybe Farley.

I don't necessarily think CB is the best move, BUT... a CB in the 1st, followed by a DT in the 2nd and signing Clowney for the short-term and drafting a couple of DEs in the 3rd and/or later could absolutely take the defense to the next level.

We'd have a line that could get consistent pressure and a secondary that could smother any passing game. That will win a lot of games in today's NFL.

Yep. Greedy is still an unknown. Add another upper quality CB to what we have, and you might just have a dominating unit.

Quick thought: Does anyone know how the 2022 class of DE's is looking?

If the 2021 class is supposed to be weak, are all the good/great players staying in college another year? Did they all come out last year? Is 2022 looking a lot stronger?

If 2022 is looking like a much better year to get an impact DE at the bottom part of the first round, then - to me - that cinches the notion that you don't go DE this year unless someone *magically* drops in your lap that you cannot pass up; someone rated higher than any available CB on the board.

You have to draft BPA within the context of Needs, but you should also play to a Draft's strengths. You have to know where the guys that are falling are in relation to the guys you expect to have a shot at next year and balance all of that information before you make a selection. This is even more pertinent if you are considering a guy like Clowney on a short-term deal. I think that if we take a DE in the 1st, we stop chasing him. If we feel the DE position is best served in the long run by drafting it high next year, then I think we heat up our pursuit after the Draft. Either way, I think it is highly likely we take a DE in the middle rounds to try to develop a rotational guy, but whether or not we go DE really depends, I think, on what we think of both this and next year's classes.

Let the other twenty-five teams fight over the QBs, TEs, WRs, and DEs, and that will leave the pick of the litter of the DB's to us.

The unfair notion that this DE class is weak comes mostly from the fact that there isn't a top 10 or top 5 guy.

There are still 4 guys that generally have a top 30ish grade. Paye, Phillips, Ojulari, and Oweh.

Rousseau seems split pretty heavily between 1st and 2nd round grades, as is Ossai.

I'd be OK with any of the 1st 4 at pick 26. If we are anywhere near the range of getting Thibodeaux from Oregon next year, we did something wrong (he's the next "top 5 talent" DE).

We've all just gotten use to those shiny, high-pick guys.

I would agree that DT is comically weak (Barmore was the only guy that even made my top 40 at DT). Maybe that is causing the confusion. The defensive front prospects as a whole are not great, but that's only slightly toward the DE class.

To all who responded...

Wouldn't that mean we need/needed 1 more signing in FA? Not sure the draft is going to deliver what we need.

I hope we aren't drafting for need in this draft.

We are sitting in pretty good shape as is. We need to be drafting knowing that players like Bitonio, Chubb or Hunt, jarvis or OBJ will be gone in a year or two.

Now is the time to draft players as their replacements.

The only way to stay good is to plan to be good. When you really can draft BPA, you best do so while you have the chance.

Yet are you really going to accomplish that with "the fourth or fifth pass rusher" in a weak DE class? I mean no matter what position you draft, you aren't going to get the #1 CB, the #1 DE or the #1 DL pick. The stronger the position is in this draft the more likely you will end up with a quality player whose position is s strength in this draft. DE isn't one of those.

Why does everyone keep saying this DE class is weak?

Number of players with general consensus 1st round grades:

Wide Receiver: 5-6
O-Tackle: 5-6
Quarterback: 5
D-End: 4-5
Cornerback: 4
LBer: 2-4
Running Back: 0-2
O-Guard: 1 (though usually 1 of the tackles above ifs "projected" inside)
Tight End: 1
Safety: 1
D-Tackle: 1
Center: 0

That's 29-36 guys with DE being the 4th highest number. Tough crowd. I'm sorry there isn't a top 10 defensive end.