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Dawg Talker
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Wow,...I didn't think there was anyone on the board older than me,...
There's several kid.. 
nordawg
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
#gmstrong
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Poser
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And if you had been like a city such as Baltimore who went 25 years without a team, your attitude might have changed.
I still say the politicians and citizens of the county played chicken with Model and lost.
Had a stadium deal been put in place, we would have kept the team and had a Super Bowl.
IMO that's certainly true. Although I have to wonder why does a guy who poses as a pillar of the community then lacks the courage to straight talk the loyal customers/ community who made him rich deserve a spot in the HOF? He helped negotiate a few contracts that turned out well for all involved. Hurray for Art! What a great man!  I don't dislike him so much for what he did as what he didn't do. If he would have had the integrity/courage to stand up and lay it on the line, I'd still have some respect for him. Instead the pillar of our community engaged in sneaky deals with secret knocks on airplanes doors. Then blew town like a con man. If it were up to me I wouldn't let him in the HOF if he bought a ticket.Sleazy sneaks don't belong in the HOF.
Peen is being a little liberal with the facts. Modell AGREED to wait until Gateway was finished before they built a new stadium for him. In fact, they wanted the Jake to be a football/baseball stadium and Modell said no, he would wait. It was HIS IDEA to put a hold on the stadium until after Gateway was finished. To say anything other than the fact he was setting the city up so that he could leave and play the martyr is just rewriting history.
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Legend
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Legend
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The Jake opened in 94......pretty sure Gund was open the same year.
Those deals were done but nothing was done done to satisy the Browns needs.
Face it....multi-use stadiums are a thing of the past.....baseball looks for around 40.000 seats, football around 75,000.
The shape of the stadiums are totally different to provide optimum viewing and usage of space..
I still maintain the people of Cuyahoga Co. and city officials are just as responsible for the Browns leaving as was Art Model.
Had a stadium deal been set, the team would have never moved.
And that is the way it is even if people don't like to face the music.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Legend
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Legend
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The Jake opened in 94......pretty sure Gund was open the same year.
Those deals were done but nothing was done done to satisy the Browns needs.
Face it....multi-use stadiums are a thing of the past.....baseball looks for around 40.000 seats, football around 75,000.
The shape of the stadiums are totally different to provide optimum viewing and usage of space..
I still maintain the people of Cuyahoga Co. and city officials are just as responsible for the Browns leaving as was Art Model.
Had a stadium deal been set, the team would have never moved.
And that is the way it is even if people don't like to face the music.
That's not entirely accurate.
The Gund was originally to have been the new Browns stadium ...... linked at the same site with Jacob's Field, but a seperate facility. Modell didn't want to leave the lakefront ..... and refused the new stadium at that location. The city officials then scrambled, and offered the Cavaliers the world to move from Richfield to the downtown location. Modell had said that he didn;t want to leave the Muni site, and part of that reason was that he was the landlord ..... and collected rent from all events. (as well as concessions, etc.)
Modell did everything he could to fubar all stadium deals because he wanted the quick cash offered by Baltimore to move. This included trying to discourage voters from voting for the stadium "sin tax" proposal by saying basically that it was too late, and don't bother wasting your time voting for it. (after the announced move, but before the vote itself) This was the main reason that he announced the move in the middle of the season. He couldn't risk waiting and having the tax/stadium plan (his own preferred plan, which would have paid for Muni renovation and reconstruction) pass. He figured that he could make the vote a moot point by taking the reason for the vote off the table by timing to move as he did.
Ironically, the sin tax proposal was trailing in polls at the time Modell announced the move. If he had waited, it probably would have been voted down. He couldn't take any chance that it might pass though, which would have cost him millions and millions of Baltimore dollars.
Plus .. to get an idea of how many Baltimore dollars were involved ..... Modell was forced to give up his portion of expansions fees, and I believe also some of the TV money .... and was still quite happy with the financial end of things.
Further, his stated reason for moving was to secure the team for his family, so they could inherit it. This was also proven false, as he was still forced to take on investors, and eventually to sell anyway.
I lived through those times at close range. Modell's "I had no choice" was pure garbage.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Legend
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I don't claim to know all the details but i do feel confident had something been in place a year or so earlier, the team would have stayed.
I agree...the last push my have been too late with Model knowing it would take 3-4 years before anything was completed.
At that point, you could very well be right that he had decided to take the money and run.
All that aside, I still think the city and county ignored the problem until it was past the point of return.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Poser
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How did they ignore the problem. They put several things in place and MODELL said that he would WAIT for Gateway to be finished for a new stadium because he didn't want the stadiums proposed. So, if he AGREED to wait, how did the city ignore him? That's ridiculous.
The deal was set and that's the way it is even if some people don't like to hear it.
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Legend
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Legend
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Hey Coch, did you guys make the playoffs?
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Legend
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All that aside, I still think the city and county ignored the problem until it was past the point of return.
The only problem with that is .... that the city had a Browns Stadium as part of the Gateway project bought and paid for ..... but Modell didn't want it. He wanted to remain at the old stadium site, and the off-season before said something along the lines of "take care of the Indians, I can wait". The city officials might not be 100% blameless, but Modell was the major factor in the Browns move ..... not anything anyone else did to him.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Legend
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Those deals were done but nothing was done done to satisy the Browns needs.
it was offered to Modell that the County would build a new stadium near Gund and the Jake.. He rejected it out of hand..
Then Modell said to the city, in public I might add, for us to take care of the indians and cavs and when they are done with that, take care of him.. in the meantime, all efforts to do that very thing were shot down by Modell,, then he moved,,
Yeah,, we didn't do a thing for him,,, 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Legend
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Legend
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Besides bend over and take it up the rear 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Hall of Famer
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Always considered it an Art Modell vs Mike White pissing war.
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Legend
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Rookie
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Thank you guys.
I was beginning to think maybe I was getting a little senile and just imagined I heard Modell say all those things back then.
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Legend
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Legend
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Thank you guys.
I was beginning to think maybe I was getting a little senile and just imagined I heard Modell say all those things back then
Nope, you heard them,,, he said them.. but revisionists will only bring out half truths.. listen to any Modell interview since he announced he was moving. he started the spin right from the get go and to this day, I bet if you asked him, he's still gonna spin it.
Some will forget he was offered a new stadium up by the Gund and Jake,, He says he was offered a mixed use facility,, He was, and it was turned down by him and rightfully so,, but then the city came back with another offer to build a stand alone stadium for him,, he said no to that also..
Here was the problem,, he knew he had a new stadium, Sold out seating guaranteed by the state of Maryland for 10 years, 10 million a year in Stadium naming rights that went directly to him.. guaranteed concession money for 10 years..
He got all of that, and to prove my point about him being a horrible business man,, after 4 years in Baltimore, he needed bailed out again,, enter Steven Biscotti...
Modell ended up selling the team for something like 600 million, paying off his debt and pocketing a wad of cash... Not bad for a guy that started out with maybe a net of 100K...LOL
But it could have been better! Way better!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Legend
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Modell ripped the soul from cleveland and he gets praise?!?    
I don't think many are praising the guy, but in the sense of fairness I don't like to see him made out as the only villain in the matter.
The city/county planners dropped the ball too.
I know the history about Model leasing the stadium and all of that, but Municipal stadium was a dump in the late 60's that should have been replaced then.
I know we all....or some of us anyway....have fond memories attached to the place, but the place was a dump even if it was our dump.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Just clicking, maybe some of you should read... 
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.) ![[Linked Image from i87.photobucket.com]](http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k155/brownsfan4173/NFL-Football.jpg)
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Hall of Famer
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OP
Hall of Famer
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He got all of that, and to prove my point about him being a horrible business man,, after 4 years in Baltimore, he needed bailed out again,, enter Steven Biscotti...
That's not my recollection. I believe that the deal from the get go was that Biscotti had a minority position in the team and had the option to purchase the balance of the team outright in 4 years.
He exercised that option and as a favor he allowed Modell to keep something like a 10% stake.
Just my recollection.
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Legend
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Legend
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That is how I remember it.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Legend
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Legend
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Going off my tired old memory, I believe Modell only owns 1 percent of the team.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Legend
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Legend
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I think your % is correct.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Legend
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Legend
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WOOHOO old timers disease is avoided for at least one more day 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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WOOHOO old timers disease is avoided for at least one more day
Or at least an hour. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Practice Squad
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There was plenty of blame to go around but the final decision to move(steal) was his. He could have ended up with basically the same deal he got in Baltimore (in the long run) if he would have sold the Browns to someone and had a little bit of patience. He could have come out of the whole thing with half a billion dollars, minority ownership, a new stadium, and a one way ticket to the Hall of Fame. Instead he F'd it up just like he did with the team that he owned. The day I feel an ounce of remorse or forgiveness for him is the day hell freezes over.
Time and change will surely show
How firm thy friendship
O - HI - O
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Legend
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Legend
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That's not my recollection. I believe that the deal from the get go was that Biscotti had a minority position in the team and had the option to purchase the balance of the team outright in 4 years.
He exercised that option and as a favor he allowed Modell to keep something like a 10% stake.
Just my recollection.
Close but nope,, not quite complete.,. The NFL only allows team owners to have so much cash leveraged against thier franchise... I'm not sure what that amount is or was, but Modell was about to cross over the line in terms of Debt in Baltimore.. Modell was in jeopardy of losing controlling interest in the team to the NFL...
Biscotti bought a percentage of the team bailing out Modell again,,, can't remember exactly but I think it was 40%.. Totall purchase price was set in stone at around 600K..
Later and for reasons I don't know, Biscotti exercised his right to buy out the team...except that he left Art with 1% not 10%.
You wanna get really freaked out,, the reason that Modell still retains 1% of the team is so he doesn't have to pay a guys family a number of Millions..
There was a deal in place in the 60's when modell first bought the team. He had a partner back then but I can't remember his name for the life of me and I know I'm gonna get the details somewhat wrong so don't quote me on it..
Something about he doesn't have to ever pay this man's family anything as long as he owns any part of the team... so, in an effort to not pay his old partners family,, he retained 1% of the team...
What a jerk this man was,,,, pardon,, IS
Last edited by Damanshot; 10/30/07 07:57 PM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Biscotti Ownership Stake: Baltimore Sun Link Steve Bisciotti, 43, bought 49 percent of the team for $275 million in 2000. He has kept an extremely low profile while Modell, 78, teaches him the inner workings of the NFL. In a rare interview, Bisciotti, who will exercise his option to buy the remaining 51 percent of the Ravens for $325 million in April, called the apprenticeship "invaluable."
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1st String
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1st String
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May all the remaining days of Art Modell's miserable life be filled with pain. He represents all that is bad in sports and in life.
And some agony for Jose Mesa, too.
[color:"red"]"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication."
---Leonardo daVinci
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All Pro
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All Pro
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Steve Bisciotti, 43, bought 49 percent of the team for $275 million in 2000. He has kept an extremely low profile while Modell, 78, teaches him the inner workings of the NFL.
Yeah that's the last person you want teaching you about business in the NFL 
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All Pro
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All Pro
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I've said it before and will again. I hope he rots. Seeing the list of HOF possilbes and seeing his name on there made me mad all over again. Sick just sick.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Three Cheers for Art Modell!
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