DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Release Sheldon Richardson

Isn't the ultimate goal of all this to win a Super Bowl? So why cut a guy and create another hole when our cap situation is fine? It's not like he was being grossly overpaid on a long term contract, the dude was scheduled to be a free agent after the season anyways.

This is my view as well, 66. Managing the cap is fine, but subtracting solid players for 1-year money that may or may not be useful is counterproductive.

Only positive I will say is that I'm going to wait a few weeks for another shoe to drop. Berry did not likely do this without a plan in mind.

And just speculating, but this offseason is the time to work a deal with Chubb, IMO. We have another year to figure out Baker and Ward. For sure no cap expert, but McCaffrey's cap hit in year 1 of his new deal was $7M. With Sheldon's $, we could afford to get Chubb's deal done sooner rather than later.

I agree, it wasn't about needing to make room for our Draft picks. It probably has more to do with future contracts of our own.

Playing this forward ; What kind of money are they going to allocate to sign a star CB. who can't play a whole season ? This has really been on my mind .. Love the guy , but ..

That may play into our Draft selection.

I know what you mean, but We need to keep drafting them.

We can start with 2 - 3 this year.

Whatever they do they better SIGN CHUBB!!!!!!!!!

Yes and no.

Sure, the goal is to win the SuperBowl. I think the overriding goal for the FO is to bring in a team of players capable of winning a SB EVERY season, not just one. The FO has to consider the health of the team over a 4-5 year period, not just this season which is basically the goal of the head coach.

The head coach thinks about the next game and the current season. They aren't really all that concerned with next years team. The next few years all to Berry and Depo.

Here is the bottom line question: Is Richardson the type of player who would be the difference between winning the SB or not?


I don't think so.

Very few individuals are of and by themselves because it's a true team sport where impacts overlap so much, but I think perhaps, because depending on whether or not we do more to fix the DLine, I think he's the sort of player that can make the difference between whether or not we even make the playoffs only because without him we stand to be REALLY soft up the middle, especially if we have nothing but a couple lightweight LBers behind it.

I don't disagree with that as it's a fair comment. I guess I am taking a leap of faith in that we aren't going to have a zero sum player playing in his place.

I'm a football FAN, I Believe once the team is assembled, you Keep the Team Together!

The problem is, and it's not a problem because You are allowed to believe and post your opinion however you want, but after several years of reading the posts of Ballpeen,

and the same theme many times, consistently, exptessed opinion, that anytime a player leaves the Browns,
immediately, the team is better off without them,
no matter who they were, or how storied their time on the team was,

That to ask that question, "Is Richardson the type of player who would be the difference between winning the Super Bowl or not"
( And I Throw Long, believe there are a lot of players we could say Yes to that.)(Including Sheldon Richardson 2021).

Yet I believe, that from Ballpeens' posts;
I believe he believes that sort of player has never existed on earth.
Not Emmit Smith, not Michael Strahan, not Tony Dorsett or Tom Brady, Joe Montana, nobody, Unitas, anyone.

It's funny you say these things because I had much the same thought.

Here is what I think we are seeing.

The Browns offense is loaded hell I think even the waterboy is pro bowl caliber.

That said I think the Browns will be unstoppable in all areas on offense with that in mind they are going to go light and fast on defense. The D line with the backend we have is going to get that half beat longer to get pressure and produce sacks with just a 4 man rush. Clowney may not produce double digit sacks but he is very disruptive and he gets plenty of pressure and he is money against the run. Garret will have his 20 sack season.

The teams we play will be forced to throw the ball to TRY to keep up making them one dimensional, and we will feast on them. I worry about being light on the back end but it may not matter as much as we may think? I see Phillips as being a great linebacker he has speed to spare and he is a hitter. The linebacker crew is better then any of us think. We have a great backend if we can get everyone healthy. The pieces are in place for a great defense.

I loved Richardson I think he is a great player and I think that he will be back. I could be wrong, but I think the Browns released him to allow him to try to get a better offer then the one the Browns were hoping to get from him. That said teams just don't have the cash to pay him he will be back is my bet. If not we have guys who can play but won't be the caliber of player Richardson is. I thought and think he earned the contract he had, but not under the current price tag of the market.

Richardson is the caliber of player who pulls his own weight, and yes he may not win us a SB but he sure as hell will be a big help in getting us there.

You believe wrong.

I like to keep teams together. I just understand that isn't always possible.

J/C

I’m holding out hope that he returns on the cheap. Of course, that would mean he doesn’t find interest elsewhere

Both yours and Willies response make perfect sense.. Thanks

I don't know what the "% to return to the team that just cut you" numbers are in the NFL (or sports in general), but I'm guessing they are low. When a team releases you based on how much they think you are worth and don't want to pay you, that team probably isn't the first team on the list to run back to. Or the second. Or the third. And so on.

However, this situation could be the anomaly.

I've been thinking about that lately (players returning "home"). I don't remember the last time we had that happen. It seems like the Patriots have that frequently...the Bengals too...the Raiders just took back KJ.

It makes me think that returning is a lot about egos and how the breakup was presented. I think our present FO is very straight-forward and truthful.

Regarding SR: If we draft a DT before the 5th-6th round, he won't be back. If we do not, he might. Both he and Jackson can play DE...that might make it easier to look "heavy" on DT roster spots and "light" on DE spots...but it wouldn't really play out that way. I'd really like to see him come back.

And to be clear, I'm not referring to x player signing with another team and then coming back in a future year. I'm referring to x player being cut and then directly re-signing with that same team within a matter of months. I just think that is super rare, perhaps even essentially non-existent.

Well, lets take a look under the hood...

Probably the first notable was that PFF gave him a first round grade and listed him as the 23rd best player in the 2020 draft. They rated him as the top interior lineman with a 92.8 grade.


From Walter Football, I thought the player comparison was interesting lol...


Jordan Elliott Scouting Report
By Charlie Campbell

Strengths:
Quick at the point of attack
Serious quickness
Good get-off, first-step speed
Quick feet
Has some twitch
Contributor as an interior pass-rusher
Athletic
Active hands
Uses hands and feet at the same time
Good size and length
Developed strength
Stout run defender
Ability to shed blocks
Can fire his gap and get upfield
Carries weight well
Versatility for a 3-4 or 4-3




Weaknesses:
Can stand up too high
Did not have a season of big production
Doesn't always play up to his talent level


Summary: Over the past decade, Missouri has been a factory for NFL defensive linemen, with players like Sheldon Richardson, Charles Harris, and Kony Ealy becoming early-round picks in various NFL drafts. Elliott will carry that tradition into 2020, as he could get selected before the second round is completed. Over the past two seasons, he was a disruptive defender for the Tigers, showing off a pro skill set.

Team sources told me in the summer of 2019 that Elliott impressed them during the previous fall even though he didn't produce a big stat line. He totaled 24 tackles with three sacks and a pass batted in 2018. As a junior, Elliott was around the ball more, recording 44 tackles, 2.5 sacks and three passes batted in 2019. He decided to enter the 2020 NFL Draft rather than return to Missouri for 2020. At the NFL Scouting Combine, Elliott had a good workout with a fast 40 time of 5.02 seconds.

For the NFL, Elliott has the ability to be a disruptor and contributor in both phases. The first thing that jumps out about Elliott is how quick he is off the ball, showing a good get-off and first-step quickness to fire his gap. Elliott has active hands with developed strength to fight off guards and work his way off blocks. To along with some functional power, Elliott has a nice ability to use his hands and feet at the same time. Combined with his speed, Elliott has some twitch as an athlete, and he can surprise offensive linemen with his burst to get upfield. As a pro pass-rusher, he will probably be more of a defender who collects pressure and disruption rather than produces a big sack total.

Elliott is stout as a run defender and holds his ground at the point of attack. He has developed strength to stand up guards when runs come downhill at him. There are also times when Elliott causes problems by firing his gap and working upfield. He can get into trouble when he stands up too high and loses leverage, but he can improve on that as a pro.

In the NFL, Elliott is a good fit in either scheme. He could be a three technique in a 4-3 and has the length to play as a five-technique defensive end in a 3-4.

Some team sources feel that Elliott most likely will get selected in the second round of the 2020 NFL Draft and won't fall lower than Round 3. They feel he is a well-rounded player who worked out well.


Player Comparison: Sheldon Richardson. Elliott reminds me of a slightly slower and slightly less athletic version of Richardson. Hence, Elliott is a second-day pick while Richardson went in the first round. In the NFL, I could see Elliott being a lesser version of Richardson.

=====================

Quotables:

Berry: “Jordan has an incredible level of self-awareness and that was one of the things that really stuck with us, particularly when we met with him at the combine, then when we had our virtual top 30,” Berry said. “His eye towards self-improvement, his ability to reflect and really the strides he’s made even in college. We do think he’s a player on the come and we’re excited to work with him and see if we can get him to his potential.”

Berry sees Elliott as a “really good fit” in the Browns’ 4-3 scheme as a 3-technique, with the quickness and gap-penetrating ability to be disruptive.



Stefanski called Elliott “my guy” and said he is excited to see how Elliott can develop under defensive line coach Chris Kiffin and the rest of the staff.“I see a physical skillset, I see a good person, a guy that fits the mentality of what we want to be,” Stefanski said. “I’m excited to add a physical player, a disruptive player and see if adding him to our scheme, adjusting certain things about how he plays, I’m just excited about what that future may hold for him.”


On DT Jordan Elliott’s performance through the first four weeks, given DT Larry Ogunjobi is listed as out:
“I thought he has played pretty well so far. We are counting on him. He is pretty responsible. He follows through on study, and he makes sure he is in the right spot and right place. We just need him to go out there, and then whatever is asked of him, he has to do his job.”


#Browns coach Kevin Stefanski said DT Jordan Elliott was very, very eager to learn last season as rookie, practiced hard, got in some games, somebody we brought along, think he's trending in right direction, this is big offseason for him.

Cutting Sheldon Richardson sends the wrong message from the team in total.
I mean on all levels.

Because everything went right with the Sheldon Richardson signing.
Let me say that again.

Because everything went right with the Sheldon Richardson signing.

1. Did the Browns get the player they wanted in the Richardson signing in 2019 or 2020 whenever? YES!

2. Did S.R. come in and work without head cases, have a lunch pail attitude? Yes!
( He Won on Individual Plays!)

3. Did Sheldon Richardson's signing fill a need in the team, actually imporved the effectiveness of the Def. Line from the day he arrived? Yes!

4. Did S. R. have an injury problem, or an off field issues problem that kept him from being available at least as close to 100% as any random player who comes to mind, NO, He was healthy? Yes!

5. Did he make the team better, did the team get better from his play?
The Run Defense was a key to the win total increase in 2020. Yes!

Can We point to one thing, anything that stands out, some intangible, (ton of penalties,) (makes those around him worse), any one intangible that was a red flag with Richardson? NO. (Did he appear to want out, not like being in Cleveland, anything?)

Everything Went Right with Sheldon Richardson, as one could hope a team could get from a free agent, and a FA signing decision.

Yet the Team Cut bait!

Wrong Message should have found a way.

Front office fail! Future Free Agents aren't blind,

Are they going to be happy to go to a team, where when everything goes right, the team dumps them like old news?

Wrong Message! Bad decision by the Browns. Period.

To continue playing the contrarian, in the defense of the FO, his contract was very poorly structured. Dorsey gave him a three year, $37 million deal that was essentially just $12-$13 million each year. The first year was "cheap" at $8 million in terms of salary because the rest of it was signing bonus ($5 million). He played out last year at a $12 million salary, but a ~$13 million cap hit (salary plus prorated portion of the $5 million signing).

Great signing, great player, great situation.... stupid contract structure. NOW.... why he & the FO couldn't just give him a deal like they just did for Clowney where they take that $12 million he was going to get this year and turn it into a five year deal that voids to 1 at the end of this season and have him get a salary of $1 million and the rest as signing bonus is completely beyond me. We could have kept him for about a $3.5 million hit this year (although, we'd take the brunt of that cap hit next season as it all accelerates forward).

I read that everybody was good. He could come back. As I said earlier, Richardsons camp already knows what we are willing to pay. You don't ask a player to rework his deal without giving them a number.

We have probably told them the offer is open for a while, through the draft anyway....maybe longer...it's open until it isn't.

Yeah, the ultimatum tactic never seemed to play out well.

I think the FO probably made an offer like this, but he most likely wanted a chance to see if the market would give him a longer term deal somewhere that he could play out the rest of his career without the one year bounce around show me contracts the proven solid vets (not rock stars) seem to be getting now. I think that offer is on the table and the door to comeback under those terms is wide open until we are forced to move on. JMHO and my read on this with the facts we have.

I have no idea how it will work out or how it has.

I just read the " 12 million for a 30 year old free agent comment"

Great rule, for "other teams free agents" because

(imo),(it takes a year to see what you got, after a free agent arrives, and, it's not until year two it seems the/a/any player has in his heart, to go all in on your team winning- doesn't happen until year two for a free agent)

So, a great rule, that I had assumed it was totally obvious doesn't apply to players already on your own team, players on your own team can be worth it as long as they still have it, especially if they are at such a high level. (When they have assimilated into part of your own core.)

Oh Well, stuff happens, have to live with it.

Right tackle Mitchell Schwartz spent his first four seasons with the Browns. When he became a free agent in 2015, the Browns made an offer far below what Schwartz believed he could get on the open market.

After testing the market, Schwartz indicated he wanted to return to the Browns. But his team had pulled its original offer, and Schwartz signed a five-year deal with the Chiefs.

“It’s all worked out,” Schwartz said.

Read more here: https://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article221121185.html#storylink=cpy

It was reported that the Browns made a deal and said essentially "take it now or it's off the table" - which was rather stupid.

Schwartz' agent scoffed and went fishing...and landed his client a lesser $$$ deal - which was stupid.

The agent gambled that the Browns weren't serious about the "now or never deal" which was a rather stupid gamble...and then the Browns dug in their heals and said "nope" which was also...well...stupid.

It appears that this new FO doesn't do stupid...what they have done is execute "The Plan" to perfection...a plan initialized by one Mr Sashi Brown.

What we are doing now has nothing to do with ripping a team down to the studs. Blowing something up is much different than building something.

I am aware of that.I did say the offer is there until it isn't.

That has nothing to do with this. Different year, different players, different front office, different needs...

Side note: if we're getting worried about salary cap, I wouldn't mind us taking a look at Keenum's cap hit either this offseason or next, especially if Baker picks up this year where he left off last and continues the upward trend.

This is nothing like the Schwartz deal. The Browns wanted to re-do Richardsons contract. Of course he didn't want it re-done. From what I hear, the Browns showed him enough respect to make him an offer which he and his agent didn't like.

Rather than fight about it they let him know what their offer was, and let him go so he could check with other teams and let him see if somebody would offer him the kind of contract he wanted. If somebody offered it to him the Browns expect that he till take it. If not he know ours offer, and where he stands with the team. Only time will tell, but the Browns treated him right in this situation and we now have to wait and see where things stand and how they will work out. The Browns would like to have him back BUT only at their price.

This is just another case of a player wanting what he wants, and the Browns wanting what they want. IMO it's great to see the team trying and also taking care of their employees at the same time.

I wasn't trying to compare the people involved. I was speaking of the failure of the strategy itself. Strong armed tactics usually only work against weak people and are not a good business model for retaining talent.

Keenum won't be here forever, but now that we are good every win counts a bit more. He is the insurance.

As your estate grows and your salary grows, your insurance should as well so your spouse isn't left in a bad position.

Right?

I'm guessing this is his last year here for a couple of reasons.

(1)
Cap hit in 2022- $7.3M
Dead cap in 2022- $1.3M

(2)
2022 Roster Bonus: $1M (due the 3rd league day of 2022)
Player can void the 2022 year with a $3.5M payback

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/case-keenum-10079/

He might even be a cut this year. Keeping him or cutting him is a wash (saves a few hundred thousand this year) but saves having to possibly pay his opt out in 2022 of $3.5M.

I may be interpreting the info incorrectly, however.

He might. As I said, I think he gets cut/traded when we feel we have a QB behind Baker who can step in and give us a good chance to win games.

We have two 4th round selections. I could see us using one on a QB. Right now I don't think we feel we have another QB on the roster behind Keenum who can step in and give us a decent chance to win games on the offensive side of the ball. Right off the top of my head, I couldn't tell you the other QB's on the roster.

Close, but not entirely accurate. The team made an offer and it did have an expiration. Schwartz and his agent

I just hope he comes back. This team needs him.
It has been a week, that is more than enough time for an agent to email all 31 other teams to gauge interest. Unfortunately, there probably won't be any movement on this until after the Draft.

Just clicking,, I've been listening to Sports Talk radio a lot lately, There is great speculation that Richardson will be brought back for a team friendly deal... Any thoughts?

There are many components to any plan...especially the plan that Sashi put together for us. The first part of the plan was to shed salary and gain draft picks...to build the foundation through the draft. Mission accomplished.

The next part of the plan is to complement the roster with PROPERLY-COMPENSATED free agents to deal with known weaknesses. Mission accomplished (and still in progress).

Throughout all portions of the plan that Sashi created was/is to create a culture of respect and accountability...from the FO to coaches and through the entire roster.

Sashi started it...Dorsey managed to not completely de-rail it...and AB masde it his own.