DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Covid 19 Fright Night part 2

From the article:
"She also required all employees to disclose the information by completing a confidential form."

Of course you could always lie, but you are missing the point

I get the point. I was just asking questions.

I guess my next question is if it is ok to require a person to get vaccinated as a requirement of employment, is it not ok for a employer to deny employment to those that have?

There really is no difference.

Being that it is a private charter school. if that is what they want to do, and the parents sending their kids there are ok with it and still pay the tuition, then who am I to say it's wrong.

As a teacher, I don't think I would want to work there if that was how they did thing.

The one bad thing about the whole thing I see is the teachers who don't conform but have been working there for a while and now have to make a choice.

Yep - they can indeed do what they want. They have every right. And there are probably a bunch of idiots that will like their stance and send their kids there and want to work there. Whether they are misinformed vaccine deniers or folks that think the vaccine puts tracking devices into you....

To me, there's a huge difference. The requirement to be vaccinated at schools or wherever is to promote safety and prevent the spread of disease to children. It is based on science and decades/centuries of data that show vaccinations work (see smallpox).

The anti-vaccination movement - and requirement in this case - is widely refuted scientifically, and often is based on politics, and conspiracy theories.

So - to me - this isn't really a both ways are fair type of thing. As far as I know, most schools require that teachers drive cautiously when parking their cars. It would be kind of odd for a school to require that teachers not drive cautiously when parking their cars.

You are right with everything you said ... but I think the "angle" that is being played here is that as a private company, can't they choose what their policies are? There is no Fed mandate to be vaccinated. It's personal choice. SO a private entity has the theoretical right to do this if they want - regardless of how stupid it is.

Yeah, I agree, but I wasn't even talking about that. I was responding to the notion that "there is no difference."

However, say businesses from a state, say - I don't know - Florida, for instance (hey isn't that where this school is???), want to implement a vaccine passport type of program. Shouldn't they be allowed to do that as well?

Are you talking about customer requirements or employee requirements? IMO they are 2 different topics.

As an employee, you are agreeing to the requirements, as long as they are within legal limits, of the job.

As a customer you have have some rights that may trump the businesses right to requirements. Now A business may ask that all customers be vaccinated, but there is no real way they can legally enforce it that I am aware. Much like store asking CCL people to not carry in their stores, at most they can ask you to leave if they find out.

But I don't think a business has the legal right to verify medical information when you enter as a customer.

IMO, this actually isn't all that different from companies that require you (translation: will fire you for not) to get vaccinated. The company/entity is asking for a legal poopstorm to get thrown back in their face. Putting any sort of requirement (either way )on a pharmaceutical that's not fully approved but being used via EUA is something that won't stand up to any sort of scrutiny.

I disagree as I am unaware of anything prohibiting businesses from asking you for proof of certain medical information.

As a fall back, however, what is there to prevent a business from offering additional, special, or expanded access to people who do offer proof of vaccination via a passport? Such as the Miami Heat offering a section where people do not have to socially distance if they have proof of a vaccine?

As far as I know, De Santis' ban was a broad restriction of passports.

So, on one hand, you are prohibiting private entities from using vaccine passports in any manner, while at the same time, saying it is okay for other private entities to arbitrarily enforce employment standards preventing employees from seeking medical treatment.

I think there's an obvious double standard there.

Just wanted to include a news article for anyone interested:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/06/us/politics/vaccine-passports-coronavirus.html

I could understand it from the EUA standpoint. If it reaches full approval and equates to the "measles" vaccine, though, I think it becomes more enforceable from an employment perspective, for places like schools at least.

You're comparing customer to employees? Totally different situations.

The conversation changes significantly after full approvals start rolling out. Even still, though... we have significant loopholes on measles and other vaccines that people use for a variety of reasons. Flu vaccine is even less, despite how many people die from the flu each year.

I think before you talk about COVID passports you need to back up and look at how we approach vaccines in general.

I am not advocating for people to do that. I am asking in the big picture. If a business can require a medical procedure with a experimental drug, can a business forbid said procedure?

I didn't mean to make it come across like I said you were advocating that. I interpreted it as a hypothetical on requiring vaccines in general.

Like I mentioned to Oober, I agree regarding the experimental aspect.

I still don't understand the logic in forbidding it, though, especially when misinformation is given as justification.

From my understanding, unless someone can show laws to suggest otherwise, these are the only reasons a business can not refuse service.

The Federal Civil Rights Act guarantees all people the right to “full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin.”

The right of public accommodation is also guaranteed to disabled citizens under the Americans with Disabilities Act, which precludes discrimination by businesses on the basis of disability.

In addition to these federal protections, many states also protect people from discrimination based on gender, sexual orientation or other personal attributes.

I do not believe that a business who claims to be putting the safety of their customers and employees in mind are in any way included in this.

It seems that people wish to pick and choose when businesses do and do not have the right to refuse service based on the subject matter far more so than the actual rights a business holds.

I heard a rumor that this school has tested positive for the Florida Virus.

My two cents on the charter school in florida... stupid is as stupid does... Desantis and Trump are killing florida.

Guess that why so many people are flocking to move there then!

They certainly are. Immigrants are flocking there.

South Florida’s population is growing. It’s no thanks to U.S. residents

Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article234742667.html#storylink=cpy

Freedom isn’t free. The price this time is being vaccinated or stay home in you mama’s basement and away from those who set themselves free. Anti vaccer’s .... self centered and think they’re unicorns. Pffft

If someone, with full knowledge of everything going on in Florida and how it's cemented its status as a running joke, wants to move there then everyone else is best served to clear the way and let them go be with their people.

Sorry you are wrong.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/real-estate/moving-to-florida-high-tax-residents-seek-shelter-report

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2021/01/29/more-people-moving-to-florida-during-the-pandemic/

https://www.floridadaily.com/people-are-...virus-pandemic/

Freedom is knowing where your eternal soul will go when you die. Then not fearing death!

They are talking about Miami... Any South Florida Resident outside the Miami-Dade area will tell you, Miami is not part of the US.

On the West Coast of Florida, we have a lot of Northeast residents moving down right now, a ton of NJ residents lately.

People hear Florida they think it's all like Miami, like when someone says New York, people think NYC.

While you may have a point, so do I. Your evidence only helps reinforces the stereotype of Florida. A lot of stupid happens there. It does help the rest of us when they all gather in a central location. More anti vaxxers should move there. It would help make things safer for the rest of us.

While I do understand your point, an increase in the population in Miamai and southern Florida is also a part of the population increase in the state of Florida.

And please don't take my comments to Dawg personally. It's most certainly directed at his ilk which I do not consider you a part of.

I will say one more thing about the population increase in Florida. The elderly have for a very long time migrated to Florida as a place to retire. The baby boomer generation is now counted in that number. As the elderly become a larger part of the population I expect the increase in population in Florida to grow as well.

It's actually a multitude of factors working together that increase the population of Florida.

I actually moved to Tennessee from Ohio myself once i got older. It most certainly had nothing to do with their laws or political leaning.

You are wasting your time. I was in Florida last week and go back every 5-6 weeks to keep an eye on the mother-in-law. People wear masks. Stores have signs requesting masks be worn, yet people who haven't been to Florida in 20 years think they know all about it.

Maybe they should direct their energy towards the 30 somethings living down the street who haven't had a vaccination.

I've got 2 very well off uncles that have moved to the bay side of florida. Because of tax reasons for a large part.

The person you responded to only 'knows' what he's force fed, from a political stand point. But, he claims he knows more than anyone else.

Is it kinda like when people get on here and tell me Portland is burning to the ground?

(Note to all those that believe that Faux news nonsense... Portland is not on fire.)

Nah, they are doing that because their new golden idol (Q-Jesus) lives there.

Its because they are fleeing NY. The liberals ruined NY and are leaving. Just like the liberals ruined CA and are fleeing to TX. Keep your liberal trash in your own states.

Nope. Liberals are moving to red states to breed republicans out of existence. They take teaching jobs to coerce your kids into liberalism, they work like missionaries converting the GOPer faithful to true enlightened politics, and they hold huge giveaways to show the right's down trodden there is a better way. I put you on the list for a visit.

Very funny mister.

Which part? I was just in North Redington Beach by St Pete where my in-laws live. NOBODY wore a mask. The bars were all completely packed. No distancing. Nothing. Even the older residents in the condo complex were maskless. On that front I’m assuming it was because they were all vaccinated.

All the gas stations we stopped at along the way had a “Laws don’t require a mask. You assume the risk” sign posted.

Those are just a couple areas mind you, so I don’t know how the rest of the state is. I was discouraged by my experience though.

I was in Venice, 20 miles south of Sarasota. Basically about 80 miles south of where you were. I did go up to that area one day to visit my brother who lives in Seminole, and tend to my parents grave which is in Largo. I didn't see that, but I didn't go to stores. Just a 2 hour visit with my brother and maybe 30 minutes or so at the grave to put in some new silk flowers and what not. I might have spent 4 hours total in Pinellas county before heading back to Sarasota co.

Not sure when you went, but spring break was a while back. I wouldn't judge much by that. As I noted earlier, young people are pretty lax towards this whole thing, and that is everywhere, not just Florida.

As for the sign, I didn't see any. I like road trips, so I like to drive down from Tennessee. We spent the night in Gainesville going down. We had to wear masks in the hotel. We had to wear masks going in and out of the restaurant that evening. In the rest stops I'd say 90% of the people going in slipped on a mask. I never leave the gas pump on trips. We pack enough water and snacks for the trip and always use official rest stops for restroom and stretching breaks...state restrooms are cleaner than whatever they call a restroom at some gas station along the way. Most are like a unkept outhouse. Going home I get to a point where I can smell home and just truck on through. Unless it is raining or some other poor condition, I don't like to stay in a hotel 3 hours or so away from home. Just take a 2nd longer rest stop and get it done.

If you can't tell, I am big on rest stops these days. There was a time I could stop for gas a few times and eat in the car while driving. No more. I have to get out of the car for maybe 15 minutes every 2.5-3 hours to walk it off a bit. stop 40 minutes for lunch. My body starts to fuse together at about that point if I don't. lol

Just as a point of reference, the top 4 counties for infections have been Dade, Broward, Palm Beach, which make up the Miami-Dade area and are the top 3 counties and account for 1.2mil of the 2.2 mil cases Florida has had. #4 county for is Hillbourough which is the Tampa/St Pete Area.

Which makes some sense when you realize those are the 2 big cities in Florida with more urban density. Jacksonville would be the next. Orlando is large and has a large population, but it's mostly suburbs and stuff, not as urban.


The whole of Florida is not like that. In fact a large part of Florida down the center is farm land. Aside from Orlando, all the decent sized cities are along the coasts.

I don't really have an issue with Pit.

Half the issue on this board is that so many take sides and are always pointing out those things, and claiming the other is wrong. Rather than just stating your opinion, defend it, but be willing to listen to the other side. In most cases there is truth to both sides, it's more a matter of perspective and experience that separate them.

All the personal and political jabs people take at each other don't help matter either.