DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Joe Woods

In fairness, we should give him at least 2 seasons to evaluate his work unless he’s completely inept

Agreed Bone. I feel Joe Woods is a very good DC. He could only do so much with the players he had last year not to mention guys in and out of the line-up with injuries. With those problems then you add in Covid I think he did a real good job.

If he was completely inept we would not have made it to the playoffs

We should be markedly better on defense this year. If it isn’t improved then something is wrong.

Our secondary was the most emphasized unit over the past 3 months. Just like the OL was last year. Heck, maybe even more so.

This Defense should be in the top half of the league at least, with the personnel we have we should be a top 5/10 Defense ...

I disagree with your notion that "you still have to deliver". I wouldn't expect a NASCAR driver to compete driving a 1959 Ford Edsel.

You can't run a system without the talent to implement it.

This FO knew that when you have a young QB, giving him the protection and weapons he needs to succeed are your top priority. We've both been fans of the NFL long enough to see QB's ruined due to the pack of protection, talent and stability of a coaching staff. If Baker weren't so mentally strong it could have easily happened here. We are very fortunate he was drafted by the Cleveland Browns. As such last off season was used to invest in that accomplishment. And a great job they did at it.

This FO knew Woods wasn't being given the talent to run his D. Week after week I saw fans dogging Woods because they expected him to win the race with an Edsel. It was frustrating. I would use the old saying, "I'll bet you dollars to donuts" that this FO gave Joe Woods a mulligan last season, as they should.

But with the price of donuts these days that old expression doesn't carry the same weight as it used to.

I think defenses take longer to gel than offenses in a new scheme. We're going to have a lot of guys on D who were not here last year, so I think this season is more about betting better than holding Woods feet to the fire. Next year neither side should have any excuses like that.

Interesting take. I would think that would be the O where there is more precision and timing involved.

In general, I don't agree with the notion of be a great D or bust for Woods.

I do think we can safely expect a top 10 D with this roster at this point. If we are much below that, it will reflect poorly on woods. Of course we have to factor in the injury bug when looking at our coordinators.

JMHO, should, could, all those words. Like the consistency of Coach S...need to get better, and work. Last year is gone, we hope to improve, but every team on our schedule will be gunning for us...especially Pittsburgh. It's great to have better players on D...on paper...Coach them up Woods, we Cleveland backers want at least a repeat....Go Browns!!!

In general I can't disagree. We should be better. I just don't know that I would quantify it with a ranking. Lot's of things can impact a ranking that aren't necessarily a reflection of the job of the coordinator.

But sure, if after losses we can look back and it was clearly a result of poor D, then that's a problem.

maybe he did deliver.. maybe he exceeded the talent that we had.. to "deliver" doesn't mean to be the best, it means to make the whole greater than the sum of it's parts.. maybe given what he had to work with, we actually did better than we should have.

I'm glad no one took my comments to be divisive. I'm trying to temper my expectations. Maybe it's the BFS Battered Fan Syndrome?

First off.. I think it's easier for a D to come together than it is for an O. Every year at training camp the D is wayyy ahead of the offense.

We Do Have vets at critical places.. Garrett, Ward, The entire Oline, the kickers, and most importantly.. finally! the QB is playing with last years coach, coordinators and receivers.

We lost a key vet in Richardson. We have rookies all thru this defense. Albeit they are highly rated draft picks.

Having said all that.. I expect playoffs. I have my expectations but, at the same time, I'm going to give this years rooks the better part of the season and evaluate how they are doing.

One thing I expect. We kick pittsburghs ass both games.

It's pretty safe to say that the entire team did that last year.. Lots of barriers to overcome and they did pretty well.

I wasn't impressed with Woods last year. There were games where I felt he didn't call good plays. But the D had many set backs - and I always thought our LB core was trash and after injuries to the secondary, the secondary was definitely poor. If anything a couple of the LB's surprised me with their play (and Phillips played faster than advertised).

That all said - I give Woods a clean slate and am happy to 'wait and see'. I don't have a good or a bad feel at the moment. I just want to see what he can do with a roster that has a chance to be good and will judge him based on this year (lord willing that we don't get decimated by injuries again).

I was disappointed in Woods last year. You always hope that a coordinator who's been dealt a rough hand can maybe surprise you. That said, his part of the roster was what it was, and then it was made worse by key injuries and then having to juggle people in his secondary.

A lot of new faces in the D this year, but our talent-light D last year was at its best in the beginning of the year, IIRC. He's got a big job to get his new guys all on the same page, but if things are still out of sync after a few games I'm going to get real worried really fast.

I was disappointed in our defense, but not in Woods.

When half of the starting secondary you were counting on to hold together the duct tape boat that was your defense go down for the year, it's tough.

This defense is predicated on coverage and pressure. We lost the ability to cover effectively, and then we had real trouble getting consistent pressure. Vernon missed time, Myles missed time, even when we had both of them we still had to rotate them and when both weren't out there, we could very easily struggle to get pressure. We couldn't cover RB's & TE's because of poor LBer play. We trade for Harrison to bolster the injured secondary, but then he misses time. It was just a metric butt-ton of "one step forward, one step back". The D just didn't have the wheels to do anything.

As for calls, I can't poo-poo that stuff. We don't have enough info to judge those decisions. At best, we could look at down & distance and what was called, but unless we are also looking at what personnel packages they were sending out, what their tendencies in situations are, and other factors, we're forming an opinion on too little information. I mean, to put it into fan terms, unless you've ever played Madden head-to-head with another human and NEVER called the wrong defense for what ended up getting ran by the other player, there isn't much room to be critical. It happens. Sometimes, it is you taking a gamble to try to create a big play, sometimes, you just get out-guessed, and sometimes your call was fine but it doesn't get executed well at all.

I am pretty sure that based on what I have read, if we don't make the playoffs, lose in the playoffs, or don't win the Super bowl, it will be Joe Woods fault.

Does that sum it up?

Not heard that from anyone..

Kind of overstated (and I havena heard that). There's this little matter of, oh, getting your first win in. Folks are talking like the work is done and hand us the SB.

Way too premature. We are all undefeated at this point.

I blame Joe Woods for you writing that.

This is where I largely find myself on Woods as well. I understand the talent deficiencies in the secondary but even so, to me the biggest issue was how often players were out of position. I always thought a guy who's strength is the secondary would have been able to address that more effectively. Signing JJ3 should solve that issue.

For me the biggest issue with the LBers was that they never seemed to have an actual role or defined function.

Some people expected too much, I also think some people expected too little.

Now he has all the necessary pieces. Our defense has speed, talent, and intelligence... I think Woods can put something special together with it.

I think it'll go quicker and smoother than you think.
There are multiple guys in every position group that knows the defense, already.

Delpit & Greedy didn't play, but they were here for camp. They've sat in on the meetings, they've gotten the playbook.

Ward, Ronnie Harrison, Redwine, Moffat, M.J. Stewart ... those guys know the secondary roles and responsibilities.

Takitaki, Mack, Malcolm Smith, Jacob Phillips, Meander.... these guys know the Linebackers roles and responsibilities.

These are all guys that got playing time during the season in this defense, and all of these guys, along with the coaches, will be helping the new guys get in sync with everyone else.

Gustin, Elliot, Garrett.... heck, we might be thinnest on experience in the DLine, but, again, we're getting back Billings and Weaver, too. They have, at the very least, had access to the playbooks and been in on some meetings before they opted-out.

This isn't going to be a fresh install of a foreign and brand new defense. There is a large knowledge base already in place that is going to get guys to hit the ground running.

It was worse than merely that. Toward the end of the season when covid and injuries were hitting a bit, I distinctly remember hoping Sendejo would be able to play because he was an improvement over what was behind him.

Even during a winning season we find ways to be desperate lol

SMH
Shaking My Head Loudly! Sandejo was sorry, but he did earn his starts by comparison.

(Memory barf)

We can complain about Sandejo’s play but in the crazy year that was 2020 he had one of the most important abilities that many of our studs didn’t have... availability. Dude is durable.

Yea, I don't know how he stayed out of the hospital as many times as he was burned.

In my mind this is Woods debut, he had very little to work with.

With that said he is about to change from using duct tape and prayer to build a defense that will be at least functional.

My keys are if Taki-Taki and Wilson are still on the squad then will still suck. Never have I seen worse play from LBer's then these two guys. Missed tackle after missed tackle from a position that has a primary responsibility to tackle.

Philipps needs to improve his coverage skills and he needs to take better angles to the ball. He has it in him to be great if the coaches can get him to improve in these 2 areas will have a stud LB. He has speed and he can tackle. This defense from my perspective is very well positioned to be dominate. This D intends to start Philips and Walker with JOK eventually replacing him as he grows in the defense. I praise the hell out of Berry for bringing in the pieces to build a dominate defense.

It all really comes down to what kind of a teacher developer of talent is Woods? He has the pieces in my mind to build a dominate defense can he? I believe he can.

I see the Super Bowl in our future and for at least the next 5 years the Browns have the pieces to be a dominate football team.

When I look at this football team on paper I see dominance in every area. Berry in my mind is doing and outstanding job bringing in talent to address our needs both in FA and the draft he was perfect IMO.

I love this football team they have greatness on their finger tips.

But what if the scheme is just flawed, and it places everybody out of position.
And thus other teams' QB's can run as well as, or better than, against this D, as last years.
Then consider now with more pieces of the puzzle acquired the team decides to run the favorite defense more often, which could exploit the flaw(s) in it more often. Just a guess...
I don't know...
Could be the opposite...
That's why they play the games.