DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Wanted: #1 corner

U don't spend a entire offseason on one unit.
The defense will get some additions on the line but they also need some DB help..
If Baxter can regain anything next year he's a addition to safety..thats where he's going..
So if Phil can add a CB and a tuff-nosed MLB , the D will be strengthened.

what do we have? 7 sacks? That's the most anemic pass rush I've ever seen. If this continues, we'll always have to score 27 plus points a game to win I dont think the secondary is the main problem. We need a massive nose tackle, at least on more end, at least one more inside LB, and one more pass rushing OLB to take the load off Wimbley.Then, I believe the secondary will look much better next draft and fa- all defense

I totally agree. Last year the defense looked half decent because opposing offense's didn't need to do much to beat us because our offense was so poor. This year, our offense is forcing other team's to try and make plays and they are able to. The soft coverage, the cushions are all symptoms of a DC and HC who know that the line is the main problem. Robaire Smith is the only guy I have seen to consistently play at a decent level. Perhaps Shaun Smith can become a decent performer. However, when only 1 of your front 3 gets double teamed, it shackles the LBs and it means we cannot get any pass rush. We need to collapse the interior of the line so the QB cannot step back up, because invariably Wimbley and Peek go flying past the play when the QB steps up. Wimbley and Peek should try to mitigate this but OTs primarily ride the rushers outside.

If we get pressure up the middle, he can't do that and we would instantly get more sacks and less time for the CBs to cover some of the best athletes in the league.

Just MHO

DR

Over I have seen quite a few of your posts, and oft times do not exactly agree, but by God you nailed this sucker. Don't leave out the coach thing either, when TG gets the horses he will give us a D to be proud of, until then our D sucks, well said..

Don't encourage him too much.

Spending big bucks on a #1 cornerback is akin to putting a new set of rims on our 83 Honda in the hopes that it'll break 20 seconds in the quarter mile.

While I know where the holes are...be careful making statements like that...those who can't think for themselves will eat that HL&S...it's not that Phil needs to spend big bucks on a CB but in a 34 ..quality DBs are essential..
U can upgrade the line and backers but if you have a INJURY-PRONE starting CB that spot will always be weak.
Phil needs to get another CB to backup Bodden or take over.
Remember very FEW in here agreed with me when I talked about the need for a first day corner last year..
We don't need to get one with our first pick but somewhere either in FA or early second day of the draft we should look at one..or a hybrid one who can also play safety.

Getting a guy to compliment or back him up is one thing, but focusing on the huge dollars required to get a "#1 corner" is a horse of a different color.

You're reaching with your comments, either U misunderstand me or you're too involved with the needs areas..

I will repeat this again and it's something that I really shouldn't have to defend..
I've harped on the Browns putrid Dline since the Botch days..I've harped on the LB's and DB's..used to argue with Vers about Fuller and Henry all the time..
I wanted the Dline upgraded this season and it really hasn't been done but we ALL KNOW WHY...

Now WHY would U think or assume I said anything about getting another # 1CB?
Even Bodden wasn't a drafted player..

Bodden is showing he can't stay healthy , so even if we have a above average Dline and front 7 that one spot will be still be weak and exposed if there's no corner there to back him up when he does go down..

Once more DO THE MATH...6 / 7 picks right now, maybe more come the off season..one of those picks can be used on a corner..I thought I said second pick..maybe in your haste you overlooked it.
I don't see a issue..just as I didn't last offseason..
Phil ain't gonna use 3-4 picks on just linemen knowing how he loves backers too.

I know the priority but I also see how Phil works and he'll look to dip in FA to get the most glaring need covered first , then back it up in the draft...at some point watch him bring in another corner..

NRTU..

I don't disagree per se with obtaining a legit shutdown CB but have you seen Nate Clements this year? No way we shell out that kins of money on a CB when you could spend half on a lineman or two and immediately upgrade the play of the DBs.

Eric Wright has improved and it is amazing he has looked OK thus far considering the amount of time opposing QBs have been having. He's a real keeper, better than any other rookie CB I have seen thus far (admittedly I've seen far more of Wright ).

You plug in Vince Wilfork and Richard Seymour to our line, you'd see a quantum leap in the defense's play. We're playing conservative, like a boxer protecting an eye or some ribs - we get 2 good linemen (Seymour and Wilfork are great but are just examples) and we can attack more, be more creative and disguise. The inexperience of the secondary is also a major factor I feel in our approach. I'm hoping that a year of learning will really help but we do miss Russell back there.

DR

Touchy? Please...not touchy..I felt like you were responding to me alone .U did respond to me did you not?
I was the only one really talking about getting another corner...if your post was in general you didn't stress it..
It's no biggie..I got into the same thing with DND..and we now have Eric Wright

We traded up for Jackson because he was rated the #1 ILB on most everyones boards. We didnt need Faine because we just signed Bentley and the Saints were willing to trade.

We knew about the knocks on Jacksons size, we drafted him for his insticts and how he always is around the football.

NRTU...

Thinking about the defense as a whole, you get a genuine, bonafide NT in there (which Shaun Smith may turn out to be) and plug in a big, atheltic, hard hitting ILB next to D'qwell, this defense will jump up the rankings in all ceatgories. D'Qwell is a player - pure and simple. Get a big mammoth tackle to occupy the interior and a strong side ILB to to take the strain and the boy will fulfill his obvious talents. Andra is not an ideal foil fo D'Qwell and isn't even the best ILB on the team any longer. Now that is progress

DR

Heh...actually, Demeco Ryans was the Browns top ILB, with D'Qwell rated just below him. Once Ryans got grabbed up, the Browns had to make a move on Jackson. It just so happened that the Saints really liked Faine, so it worked out.

We had our chance to pick LBs and we didn't do well...Taylor, Davis, Bentley, McMillian and Speegel...only Davis and McMillian are still here. I do think McMillian is better than Williams...Jackson is getting better but Wimbley is lost without a QB to sack. We have tried but failed while the Steelers continue with a top defense mostly lead by LBs.

I say try the Big Ten Penn State OSU Mich, Wis all have good prospects. We can also find some FA picks...we could have had Briggs. It is clear we spent our money on offense and now ned some luck on defense.

Colclough the new DB should help..he was very good with the Steelers and we are now getting our division misstep by taking another talent let go.

Best reply here that doesn't deal directly, specifically with the thread topic! NICE!!! Right on the money with your general assesment of the Browns D. IMHO.

But and however... Watch LB... Focus on his techniques. Where, how and when he lines up in a D and on a WR... Look at his tackling techs & skills How often he gets caught looking into the back field. How often he is in the proper postion vs. out of position. He gets beat in front for too many 3rd down conversions and improtatant plays. He lets WR's get behind him for a few of the above listed reasons. He is a average NFL CB. I won't belabor the injury factor with him either. If you're not on the field, or on the field healthy playing your best football most of the time how can you possibly be a solid to outstanding #1 NFL CB? LB is not in this class nor does he belong in this type of statement or topic.

I do like his effort, attitude, risk taking and his over all cover skills... When he is not looking back trying to steal a peek... Or when he face gaurds intead of getting his head around... Those are two different issues and skill sets..

If the Browns front seven were better and doing what they should be, LB's strenghts would be more visable and his weaknesses would be minimised some. But he is what he is, an average to good on his best-completely healthy days, NFL CB.

Toad you pretty much said exactly what I was thinking... Nice post.

amen.

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Now do we need a first-day type of corner? Sure, every team does! Still, that's not the problem on this defense. We need at LEAST four new starters in the front-7, and that DOESN'T include Andra Davis, who's mediocre. He's the kind of guy who plays at the level of the talent around him. Of course you allready know this, hehe.

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Your take on Baxter and AHen are pretty much right on.

And I believe we may have a first-day type of corner though the jury is still out on Wright. I think Bodden is actualy pretty darn close to that but he just can't stay healthy. But I agree, corner is not the problem on this defense.

Where we may differ is that I'm not sure we need "at LEAST" 4 new starters on the front 7. At least not right away. We have some young LB'ers who need another year-and-a-half for the light to come on fully. For those in whom it doesn't we need replacements. But that's a future consideration. Besides, that's still not the problem on this defense.

We do need a NT. Badly. We also need one starting DE and another to take over for Robaire Smith before two years are up. Those should come next offseason. While that will help the D-line immensely, it's still not going to solve the problems on this defense. As eotab points out in his defensive thread, it takes some time to learn the techniques of the 3/4. So simply plugging in upgrades on the line, while helping out immediately, it will not instantly solve the problems there. It will take time.

And while that time is being spent the young LB'ers will continue to learn. They would be immediately helped by a better D-line, still, they will all have to grow together. The LB'ers will take more time than the DL'ers so it made sense to draft them first. They should both be coming into their own at about the same time.

Barring spending the bank on a slew of veteran defense front 7 players highly experienced in the 3/4, this defense is still two years from dominating. The young LB'ers simply need more time and the DL needs an instant upgrade.

Next season should see a great improvement in the defense overall but again, as eotab points out, there is no quick fix. Half the defense has less than two years in and a couple of them have never played this scheme before. RAC's 3/4 has a huge learning curve. I'm positive that he and Savage have discussed all this early on and that is why the switch was made in the first year. Putting if off at all would have just been putting it off too long.

Maybe a couple of the defensive players will sell their souls to the devil, (as Anderson MUST certainly have done the night following the Pittsburgh game ), and they'll dominate quickly. Other than that we will just have to wait for vast improvement. Right now, the only hope for improvement is in the scheming.

RAC is obviously getting more involved in the defense as evidenced by some of the scheming that began in the Pats game. Pdawg called it the "new look defense" when it first happened. All we can hope for is it works for the time being. RAC knows he needs some players and he knows some of the ones he has needs more experience. But he also knows he can't get any new players until the offseason and that you can't teach experience. In his pressers, when asked about the defensive struggles, he looks confident in his knowing and looks forward to the end of next season when he won't have to address so many struggling defense questions.

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Where we may differ is that I'm not sure we need "at LEAST" 4 new starters on the front 7

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Not speaking for Toad...But IMO I can see where he comes up with 4...

An EXPERIENCED 3-4 ILB to help this Run D...
An OLB to go with Peek and Wimbley...
A NT that cannot be moved to help this Run D...
A DE to help this Run D...

I have no idea who will be available in FA this year and really don't care right now simply because we know many will re-up with current teams...

Just as Savage did with this OL this year...I think we're in good hands knowing they will do the same thing with the front 7 on D next year...

FOUR pieces of this OL will be back in 2008...FOUR...We haven't seen that since the dawn of Free Agency and the Salary Cap in Cleveland...And ALL of em' inked long term...McKinney is the only one who won't be back...When we inked Fraley for 4 years I'd bet the thought process was Bentley coming back in 2008...THERE'S our McKinney replacement...It's CHILLING the potential Offensive Line we will have for the next several years and it fits right in with setting up Quinn to SUCCEED...

Savage has done this and still left us in great cap shape...The beauty of it is we will not need to have PRE-FA deals done out of desperation with the highest cost FA Offensive Linemen we can find...Those days are over...

Other than a RB to take over for Lewis...We're DONE with High $ Offensive FA's...Enter Turner and Chudzinski's familiarity with him...He'll be the hot commodity for us come March...Other than a Turner and a mid-level sure handed receiver we're SET on the Offensive side of the ball...

NOW u can set your sights on the D...And I wouldn't even worry about Robaire Smith right now...We need to get the opposite side settled...And the middle...If I'm Savage I go after an EXPERIENCED 3-4 DE and ILB...NONE of Jackson/Williams/Davis are irreplaceable...We start getting these guys to DEPTH and we're gettin' there...

One of the biggest problems we're having right now is ROYE...His injury situation is hampering us from having Shaun Smith where he was supposed to be when we signed em'...ON THE NOSE...I also think we will take a long look at this Leonard kid at the Nose...If those 2 can provide a solid 1-2 punch on the Nose we're one step ahead of the game...

Beyond Roye/Smith and McGinest this defense is still very young...U sprinkle in solid prime career guys and this defense can improve immensely in one off season...This is what I look for Savage and Crennel to do...And what we've done with this Offensive Line and the drafting of Thomas at 3 this year will provide us the opportunity to do this...

We sign Turner and a sure handed receiver...Along with a Big $ DE and ILB...Then we go to the draft...I for one can't wait to see how Savage and Crennel handle this...These guys KNOW what they NEED...They KNOW what they WANT...

This football team is going to be ready to EXPLODE onto the scene in year 4...Solid youth that will be coming into their own with Veteran Leadership sprinkled in there will get us there...It's all coming together at nearly the same time...PRICELESS!!!!!!!!

It's blatantly obvious we will not be able to take over the division from Pittsburgh until we can CONTROL A RUNNING GAME DEFENSIVELY!!!!!!!!!!

Anthony Henry, Anthony Henry, Anthony Henry, Anthony Henry, Anthony Henry, Anthony Henry,

Keep the team together. Who Shut down the Bengals Wr's 3 games in a row Anthony Henry, Who made Corey Fuller look good because he got to cover #3 receivers, Anthony Henry.
also let me mention that 9 dbs were drafted by the Browns since Anthony Henry most I believe weren't given enough of a chance.

Who rules bordertown, Master Blaster rules bordertown, Embargo off.

What?

We do need a NT. Badly.
We have a NT..he's paying DE ..
Thats what S.Smith came here to play..and if you've watched play DE..I see what he has....he's what we need in the hole and he has SPEED...
But if they're going to keep him there..than yeah we need a NT, and another DE..

We have some young LB'ers who need another year-and-a-half for the light to come on fully. For those in whom it doesn't we need replacements
That would be Andra Davis...once we get a bonefide headHUNTING instinctive MLB..this D will take off...

Unless he comes out early, wait a year on Malcom Jenkins.

this man speaks the truth, if you get pressure with the front 4 alone, it makes the other 7 guys look ALOT better.

News flash..fixing the front seven doesn't eliminate injury prone players..only replacing them does that.

Well I agree that the D would be strengthened but I really believe we need DL, I mean these guys are getting ancient! So far the 3-4 has not worked well for us and I think it's a good part due to the DL not being the anchor that it needs to be!
Yes..but also the LB's need upgrading..we have no LB outside of DQ that is truely instinctive and a force ..thats bad..

We need a NT especially if they're gonna keep SS at DE ..
But as far as the secondary ... I think Phil can nab a late round big corner and ...drum roll....a FS..ooooohhhh...whats that? Someone faint??
Yep..we need a good solid SMART instinctive FS... a ballhawk..