DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Vaccine

If they're all going to die anyway, why do you wish for them to jump off a cliff?

Because the sooner they're gone, the smaller chance the virus will continue to mutate. Eventually, it will create a variant that renders all our vaccinations worthless, as long as idiots are still walking around.

Round'em up.
Push them off like lemmings.
Or find some uninhabited island.

Even after several new variants have evolved people still do not seem to grasp how this all works. So far the vaccines have remained effective against all of the new variants. However, as they mutate and evolve further, at some point that will likely not be the case.

If it were about personal choice and only impacted themselves and their families, I would say good luck to them and let nature take its course. However, it very much endangers all of us. Something that can't seem to sink into their skulls.

**this represents roughly half of the rather lengthy text. Follow link for full article.

linkage

Forest Gump says "stupid is as stupid does."

Interesting thread. I am pro vaccine. I was one of the first to get it in the state of Nevada. My wife also has it. We have returned to our normal lives just like it was pre-pandemic.

When the vaccine becomes available for my 7 year old daughters, they will not be getting it. If the schools force it, we'll have a decision to make.

WOW you set yourself up for this.

If they jump off a cliff, they won't take anyone else with them...

BOOM! Look at you go!!

(Downgrade to an A- though... you forgot to say "Trump")

I guess anything is possible, but "eventually, it will create a variant that renders all our vaccinations worthless" is a serious stretch, imo. If so, I guess we would need 100% vaccination, but wait, I guess if that's true it wouldn't matter if it were 0% vaccination.

So yes, find an island, it's gonna need a really big island though, every variant of concern has come from someplace else.


Straight from the CDC site:

Yet the Delta variant is here... now. And thus far is the most infectious variant to date. Hospitalizations and deaths are on the rise.... here, now. This isn't something that is national. Any variant now in other nations will eventually reach our shores. Let's not pretend that these variants aren't getting stronger.

That's been the problem thus far. People lose sight of the fact the more people that get vaccinated the less such variants spread. The less it spreads the less chances of even more dangerous variants evolving.

We can all make excuses to do nothing. And thus far we are seeing how that hasn't worked.

My fifteen year old grandson is vaccinated.

His brother will be nine in September. As soon as it is available. He will get it.

I do not see a problem. I don't see a difference in this vaccine to a flu vaccine.

Both have proven to protect against a virus. That is what covid is.

The world that we live in today is not what our ancestors faced. They could develop immunity over generations of exposure that would be passed down from the mother in birth.

Today we do not have that luxury. That is because these new viruses pop up(normally coming from other animals) and they do not stay localized. A infected person jumps on a plane goes to a place that the virus has never been. Bingo pandemic.

We can choose to fight viruses. Or, succumb to them.

Just imagine were this country would be without this vaccine?

Not matter how ugly you paint a mental picture. It is not ugly enough.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/h...e-delta-variant


Here’s How Well COVID-19 Vaccines Work Against the Delta Variant
The delta variant has led to a COVID-19 surge in the U.S. Martinez Velez/Europa Press via Getty Images
COVID-19 cases are rising in the United States, and the delta variant has been identified in all 50 states.
The delta variant is now responsible for more than 58 percent of new coronavirus infections in the United States, and there’s been an increase in hospitalizations.
Of people hospitalized, a majority are either unvaccinated or partially vaccinated.
Even though vaccines offer different ranges of protection, experts say getting fully vaccinated is crucial.
The United States is now dealing with the delta variant of the coronavirus, a highly contagious variant that was first identified in India in December.

As with previous variants, the delta variant has spread to many countries across the world, including, most notably, the United Kingdom, where it’s now responsible for around 99 percent of new cases.

The United States first announced that it had diagnosed a case with the delta variant in March this year. It’s now the dominating variant nationwide, making up more than half of all new infections in the country.

Confirmed infections with the delta variant have also been doubling since June. The average is more than 24,000 a day, according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

This rise has been attributed, in part, to the delta variant being an estimated 60 percent Trusted Source more transmissible than the alpha variant, according to recent research.

Additionally, areas with low vaccination rates are more likely to see a surge in infections.

Low vaccine uptake driving up infections
“The unvaccinated population is at high risk for infection. If this variant continues to move quickly, especially in areas of low vaccination rates, the U.S. could see a surge in SARS-CoV-2 infection,” said Dr. Miriam Smith, chief of infectious disease at Long Island Jewish Forest Hills Teaching Hospital in Queens, New York City.

CDC Director Dr. Rochelle WalenskyTrusted Source issued a warning on this potential surge earlier this month.

In a press briefing, she said preliminary data suggested that 99.5 percent of the people who died from COVID-19 since January were unvaccinated.

“We know that the delta variant… is currently surging in pockets of the country with low vaccination rates,” she said.

In Missouri, which has a vaccination rate of 40.26 percent, confirmed coronavirus infections have almost doubled in the past 2 weeks.

In contrast, Vermont reported only 32 cases on July 12 and currently has one of the highest vaccination rates in the country at 67.70 percent.

This echoes findings from a U.K. studyTrusted Source that found the delta variant twice as likely to lead to hospitalization, and both the AstraZeneca-Oxford and Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccines being effective in reducing this risk.

“We also know that our authorized vaccines prevent severe disease, hospitalization, and death from the delta variant,” Walensky said.

Dr. Theodore Strange, the interim chair of medicine at Staten Island University Hospital in New York, said the data supports this.

“The safety and efficacy of the current vaccines are very clear. These three vaccines do work to prevent disease and the spread of disease, and they are as safe as any other vaccines that have been in use. Although some side effects have been reported, these issues are rare and treatable,” he told Healthline.

Vaccine progress in the U.S.
The United States has so far administered more than 336 million doses of COVID-19 vaccine. Around 160 million people have received two doses. That means more than half of the U.S. population over the age of 12 — or 56.6 percent, to be exact — has been fully vaccinated.

There are currently three COVID-19 vaccines that have been authorized by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and are currently in use across the United States.

The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was the first to receiveTrusted Source emergency use authorization (EUA) from the FDA. It’s sold under the brand name Comirnaty and is also referred to as BNT162b2. Currently, more than 186 million doses of the vaccine have been administered in the United States.

A week after the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine EUA, the Moderna vaccine also got the green light from the FDATrusted Source. Sold under the brand name Spikevax and also known as mRNA-1273, more than 136 million doses of the Moderna vaccine have been administered in the United States so far.

The third vaccine approved by the FDA was the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine, or Janssen COVID-19 vaccine. It was issued an EUA in February 2021Trusted Source. Around 13 million doses have been administered so far.

Vaccines vs. delta variant
All three vaccines are proven to be effective in varying degrees against the original variant of the coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2, that causes COVID-19.

However, since the delta variant emerged, scientists have been trying to establish whether these vaccines are as effective against it.

We broke down what the current data says. But new research could mean this data will change over time.

The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine
Due to limited research so far, trying to determine the effectiveness of each vaccine against the delta variant remains a challenge. However, there have been promising results from multiple studies.

Study 1 and real-life data
According to an analysis carried out by Public Health England, two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine appeared to be about 88 percent effective against symptomatic disease and 96 percent effective against hospitalization with the delta variant.

The same study suggested that the vaccine was approximately 80 percent effective against preventing infection from the delta variant. Scientists came to this conclusion after analyzing 14,019 people with an infection, 166 of whom were hospitalized, in England.

Vaccines had a protective effect against infections with delta and hospital cases were milder, the study found.

Public Health England also shared real-world data in May that solidified the importance of having a second dose of COVID-19 vaccine. The analysis suggested that a single dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine offered only about 33 percent protection against symptomatic disease.

This was a reduction from the previous 50 percent effectiveness estimated against the alpha variant.

The study also found that the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 88 percent effective against the delta variant 2 weeks after the second dose.

Study 2
A reportTrusted Source published in the journal Nature reflected the findings that a single shot of a two-dose vaccine such as Pfizer-BioNTech or AstraZeneca provided “barely” any protection.

However, researchers also reported that people who had received two doses of a vaccine had significantly more protection against infection with the delta variant, with researchers estimating a level of 95 percent effectiveness.

The study also found that the delta variant was less sensitive to “sera from naturally immunized individuals,” meaning people who had a prior infection may not be protected against reinfection with the delta variant.

Study 3
A study in Canada, meanwhile, found that two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine worked just as well against the delta variant as it did with alpha. It has not yet been peer reviewed.

The study suggested the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was around 87 percent effective 14 days after two doses.

Study 4
A study in ScotlandTrusted Source found similar results. The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, researchers concluded, offered “very good” protection against the delta variant and demonstrated 79 percent effectiveness 14 days after receiving the second dose.

Study 5
A study in Israel was more of an outlier and found that the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine did not offer as high protection as previously estimated. The study suggested the vaccine was about 64 percent effective against preventing infection with the delta variant and 64 percent effective against symptomatic illness after two doses.

But scientists have pointed out that the full data has not yet been released, and it may have included asymptomatic infections picked up by Israel’s surveillance program.

ESTIMATED EFFECTIVENESS OF PFIZER-BIONTECH VACCINE
Anywhere from 64 to 96 percent effective against the delta variant with two doses.

A third dose?
Pfizer and BioNTech say they’re now in the process of developing a third dose of their COVID-19 vaccine that will act as a booster against the delta variant. The companies said new data from the Israeli Ministry of Health, which showed that the vaccine’s effectiveness declines after 6 months, spurred them to launch the research.

Clinical trials for the booster vaccine could begin as early as August.

“Pfizer-BioNTech is seeking FDA approval for a booster to address waning antibody 6 months following full immunization, with particular concerns for protection against new variants,” Smith said.

However, Smith told Healthline that the currently available vaccines have been effective in preventing severe disease, including those identified with current variants of concern.

“Further, the CDC has not recommended a booster following any vaccine against SARS-CoV-2, as current data are limited,” she added.

The Moderna COVID-19 vaccine
There are multiple lab studies that suggest the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine works against the delta variant. And similar to the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, Moderna is also testing whether a third dose is beneficial.

Study 1
A lab study on the Moderna vaccine showed that the vaccine was capable of providing protection against the delta variant and other variants tested, even though it was much more reduced compared with the alpha variant.

But the most interesting finding was that the vaccine was far more effective in producing antibodies against delta than it was against beta, according to the data, which has not yet been peer reviewed.

“As we seek to defeat the pandemic, it is imperative that we are proactive as the virus evolves. [T]hese new data are encouraging and reinforce our belief that the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine should remain protective against newly detected variants,” Stéphane Bancel, CEO of Moderna, said in a statement.

No clear level of effectiveness was mentioned.

Study 2
The same Canadian study that found the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine to be 87 percent effective suggested that the Moderna vaccine was 72 percent effective against the delta variant after one dose.

There wasn’t enough data to calculate protection after two doses for Moderna. It’s also important to point out that the study has not yet been peer reviewed.

The findings, however, indicate that even a single dose of the Moderna or Pfizer-BioNTech vaccines provides “good to excellent” protection against symptomatic infection as well as severe illness. Two doses were also found likely to provide even higher protection.

ESTIMATED EFFECTIVENESS OF MODERNA COVID-19 VACCINE
One study estimates 72 percent effectiveness from one dose. Other studies suggest it may offer similar protection as the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine.

The Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine
There’s little data that shows how effective the Johnson & Johnson (J&J) single-shot COVID-19 vaccine is at protecting against the delta variant. The company is also reportedly researching whether a second shot would boost immunity against the variants.

Study 1
A recent clinical trial suggested that the vaccine was 85 percent effective against severe disease and demonstrated “strong, persistent” protection against hospitalization and death.

It also showed that the J&J vaccine prompted “neutralizing antibody activity,” which stops the virus from infecting healthy cells, against the delta variant at a higher level than it did for the beta variant.

The Pfizer-BioNTech and AstraZeneca vaccines had shown a decline in effectiveness against the latter in another study.

Study 2
Interim results from a study involving 20 people has shown that the J&J vaccine neutralized the delta variant within 29 days of the first shot, and protection improved over time.

“Current data for the eight months studied so far show that the single-shot Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine generates a strong neutralizing antibody response that does not wane; rather, we observe an improvement over time. In addition, we observe a persistent and particularly robust, durable cellular immune response,” said Dr. Mathai Mammen, the global head of Janssen Research & Development at Johnson & Johnson, in a July 1 press release.

ESTIMATED EFFECTIVENESS OF J&J COVID-19 VACCINE
More studies are needed to reach a definitive answer.


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Key takeaways
The World Health Organization (WHO) has said data so far supportsTrusted Source claims that the Pfizer-BioNTech and AstraZeneca vaccines work against preventing severe COVID-19 caused by the delta variant.

But it has also acknowledged that the vaccines may offer less protection against milder, symptomatic illness caused by delta, though studies still suggest that people fully vaccinated “retain significant protection against the delta variant.”

Receiving the full regimen of two doses of a mRNA COVID-19 vaccine, such as Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna vaccines, has also shown to be much more effective against the delta variant.

“The bottom line is that the vaccination program with any of the current vaccines available is the only way to break the cycle of spread by not allowing the virus to infect unvaccinated hosts and then mutate into variants such as delta. These vaccines are safe and with a high degree of efficacy to prevent further morbidities and mortalities,” Strange said.

Prof. Tim Spector, an epidemiologist from King’s College London, told Healthline that it is now time for the United States to take lessons from the United Kingdom in dealing with this new variant.

“[They] should start spreading the word about the new symptoms. [D]o not get too relaxed when you get your vaccine either, especially if you are in a high-risk area,” he said.

“Your risk may be an eighth of what it was [after getting vaccinated] but still a considerable number of people will be infected,” he added, highlighting the importance of physical distancing and wearing masks in crowded, unventilated places.

J/C I find it shameful that people are wishing for people to die.

Especially by their inaction to help prevent it.

That's the new America bro, get used to it. Nothing can be discussed without shaming and blaming.

I don't wish anyone to die. It was an allegory.

But I do have a problem with those who refuse to care for others well being.

If they choose ignorance then they should stay in quarantine.

Is it ok for a person with aids to knowingly infect others?

Right out of the communist toolbox, and these suckers are in it neck deep.

I have read enough in here enough to take a few lessons.

Republicans refusing to get the vaccine are actually killing people but they seem more concerned by a comment on a message board. Go figure...

So, it's the republicans that have refused the vaccine that are killing people, not the democrats that are refusing the vaccine - they're just fine. Got it.

https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-vaccin...5dd966d5ef.html

"The counties with the most vaccine-hesitant residents generally also voted for Donald Trump in 2020 by large margins, whereas the counties with the lowest levels of hesitancy generally also had fewer Trump voters."

There was an interview with the State Epidemiologist in Arkansas and a couple other doctors. They were talking about the vaccination rates, the increase in cases in the state from the delta variant-they were saying that by the second week in August they will be back to where they were in the winter.

And what really struck me as "wtf"-the state doctor said the the politicians (Ark is a red state) in the state have made it illegal for the doctors to impose any mask mandate for the vaccinated or unvaccinated, to impose any restriction for schools including school sports or any requirements for the citizens to get vaccinated. The doctor said they can only suggest that people do what they should-any mask mandate or shutdown is a criminal offense.

And Arkansas isn't the only state that is making it illegal for the doctors to do their duty-dumbass red state politicians are killing their constituents

Look at a map arch. Look at where vaccination rates are the lowest and how that correlates to who the states overwhelmingly voted for. Look at their infection rates, rise in hospitalizations and death increases.

So while your post doesn't depict everyone, it certainly represents accuracy at an overwhelming rate.

Thanks. So, like pit said, it's the republicans that won't get the vaccine that are killing people, but the democrats that won't get it aren't killing people. Wait - 100% incorrect.

Rather, it should be said "PEOPLE" that don't get the vaccine may be unknowing carriers that could spread it to others.

But I know, I know - everything is either political party or race.

I see you still haven't looked at a Covid map.

to date over 161 million people have been vaccinated in the U.S.A. and over 1 Billion worldwide. Just over 600 of the People in America have died from covid who were vaccinated. While over 607,000 unvaccinated folks have died from covid.

Old math, new math, simple math, Algebra, Calculus or any other way you add it up, it's just plain stupid to not get vaccinated.

Actually, I have. So, you're wrong. Thanks for playing.

Bone posted a graphic that was all about trump.

It stated 'counties', but not number of unvaccinated PEOPLE. It made no mention of POPULATION of counties, anywhere. Point being, un vaxed in L.A., NYC, and Chicago - all heavily democrat might very well exceed the rural counties in POPULATION.

But, the overARCHing point is, as you refuse to see, PEOPLE not getting vaccinated is the problem. Not republicans not getting vaccinated and are, in your words "killing people".

Also, did YOU read bone's link? I think not.

I'll just leave this, from bones link, right here:

In fact, many counties with high levels of vaccine hesitancy — particularly in the South — are also considered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to be highly socially vulnerable based on factors like poverty, lack of access to transportation and crowded housing.

Driving the news: More than half of U.S. adults have now received at least one dose of the vaccine, a remarkable milestone.

But in some states, appointments are going unfilled and unused doses are starting to pile up — potentially a sign that demand is decreasing.
Around one-fifth of Americans say they definitely won't get a vaccine or only will if required to, and another 17% say they want to "wait and see" before getting a shot, per KFF.

The big picture: The groups most likely to say they definitely won't get a vaccine are Republicans and rural residents.

But experts caution that it's important not to oversimplify the narrative. For example, many ruby-red Southern states have large Black populations as well as white Republicans.
Black Americans are among the most likely groups to say they want to "wait and see" before getting the vaccine, and they may also face access barriers.

But, you go believing it's republicans not getting vaccinated that is killing people, while the dem's that don't get vaccinated aren't.

Also, from bone's link (that was from april of this year) is this: "“What I'm really worried about is building up this identity of, ‘if you're a Republican, you don’t want the vaccine.’ I think a) that’s not correct and b) it's really, really harmful,” said Ashish Jha, dean of the Brown University School of Public Health."

So your reading comprehension isn't very good. Thoughts and prayers.



Edit; BTW vaccine hesitancy is based on the percentage of people that get vaccinated, not the population of those places.

I feel no shame whatsoever, and refuse to be shamed by you or anyone else. These people obviously don't care about you or me, and they apparently have no concerns about even infecting family in their own homes.

I'd rather see you & me maintain protection going forward seeing as how you& I did the responsible thing.

If it's a choice between them or us, I chose us.

You can try to shame me if you want, but I'm actually on YOUR side.

you're welcome.

I can do that,, First Trump befriends you then he pushed you off the cliff.... Hows that?

The Covid Vaccine is a killer and Trump won in a landslide!

Believe what your Chinese government tells you.

https://basedunderground.com/2021/07/18/...last-two-weeks/

Get back under your bridge.

Very telling that you buy into this total garbage.

My bad.
I forgot to lock up after I fed the board's pets.

Are you specifically coming down on people that don't want the vaccine? Isn't that someone's right to choose whether they want it or not?

About half the people I know have gotten it. The other half said they are not getting it. Their reason is they don't feel comfortable with it yet. How can we not respect that position regardless of what the numbers are doing?

Because their actions negatively impact everyone else, including (potentially) those already vaccinated. You can liken it to speed limits and prosecuting folks for going over the speed limit. You could argue if someone wants to drive dangerously it's up to them - but in reality their 'free choice' potentially kills other people.

Are you advocating for it to be forced on people? That's a slippery slope. If we start going down that road there may come a day where you are forced to do something you don't want to do.

That's more scary than people electing not to get the vaccine.