DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Indians 2021 Part 2

Maybe MLB can see that this is an emergency and authorize some 5 inning triple headers... Ghost runner on second in every inning after the third.

The Athletic published a report today about Indians' ownership that, because it's a subsription site, cannot be posted here. But here are a few bullet points:

* When Paul Dolan was asked by staff members this past off-season about the future of the Indians in Cleveland, his reply was "We aren't going anywhere." Numerous sources in the Indians' hierarchy have echoed this to The Athletic.

* The team, city and stadium landlord Gateway Corp. are nearing an agreement on an extension on the Progressive Field lease, according to multiple sources. The current pact lapses after the 2023 season, the ballpark’s 30th in the heart of downtown Cleveland.

* The team continues to pursue minority investors. At least one candidate has emerged: Stanley Middleman, the founder and CEO of New Jersey-based Freedom Mortgage, one of the nation’s largest FHA and VA lenders. Two sources noted there are other interested suitors and it remains unclear how far along conversations with Middleman or anyone else have progressed. Thus far, Dolan has shown no desire to sell out majority ownership.

* There is at least one city prowling for a baseball franchise, a city some have speculated could lure the Indians out of Cleveland. John Loar, managing director at Music City Baseball, has envisioned a major-league team called the Nashville Stars, an ode to the Negro League team. The privately funded stadium would seat 42,000, in honor of Jackie Robinson’s number, in the middle of a “world-class entertainment venue,” with retail, development and musical residencies.

“I’ve never had a conversation with anybody about Cleveland regarding Nashville,” Loar said. Multiple sources concurred: The idea of the Indians moving to Nashville has not been discussed. Commissioner Rob Manfred is known to favor Nashville as one target for MLB expansion, and an expansion team is what Nashville wants.


https://theathletic.com/2694158/2021/07/...-the-spotlight/

I was just going to come and post about this. Though I don't live in Cleveland, hearing that the Indians might be on the move is still very surprising to hear. The article also seems like more fishing than anything. It seems the only real solid part of the article was about Dolan seeking additional owner(s) to buy in.

I had the opposite takeaway - that the team is NOT going anywhere. The info about an impending lease extension was the most heartening, as well as the apparent interest from investors in minority ownership.

Correct. The Dolans are not moving the Indians.

I've read from multiple outlets the lease extension will be announced anytime now.

Right. I could've been more clear. This whole potential move seems to be coming out of nowhere. I am curious about the additional owner angle, though.

There's some urgency to get the lease extension done while Frank Jackson is still Mayor because come election season this fall some misguided slappy running for mayor might choose to turn it into a political issue to get some publicity.

The Indians have had 11 picks in 10 rounds so far, and 10 of those are, what should be no surprise to anyone, pitchers.

What’s with the Cleveland Indians drafting all these college pitchers? – Terry Pluto

https://www.cleveland.com/tribe/2021/07/...erry-pluto.html


CLEVELAND, Ohio – Ten pitchers?

The Tribe drafted 10 college pitchers in their first 11 picks? How can a team needing outfielders do that?

I received a few emails from Tribe fans asking me some version of that question.

I admit, I love college pitchers near the top of the draft – especially for the Indians, who know what to do with these guys.

But 10 does seem excessive.

“College pitching was the strength of this draft,” said Tribe Scouting Director Scott Barnsby. “We really did plan to take the best player available. It didn’t mean we didn’t look at position players. It wasn’t the plan going in. But as the best player available, this group of pitchers lined up on our board.”

Another Tribe source told me they were prepared a few times to take a position player, only to see that player selected a few picks before their turn. This is not like other drafts, where you can trade picks to move up.

WHAT IS THE BIG PLAN?

Consider what the Tribe has done best for more than a decade – develop pitchers.

Nearly all of them have been college pitchers. Some came in trades from other teams (Trevor Bauer, Corey Kluber, Mike Clevinger). Some were drafted by the Tribe (Shane Bieber, Aaron Civale, Zach Plesac, Josh Tomlin, Cody Allen, James Karinchak).

My guess is the Tribe subscribes to the gospel of “You can never have enough pitching.”

Or as manager Terry Francona once said: “When you think you have too much pitching, get more.”

The onslaught of injuries this season demonstrates how most teams need more pitching. Think about how the advantageous position of having a wealth of starting pitching – even in the minors – puts a team in position to make trades.

Research has shown a few points in this area:

1. The hardest thing for a team to do is sign and develop viable Major League starting pitchers.

2. The most expensive commodity in free agency and via trade often is established starting pitching.

3. Pitching prospects with some success in the minors are highly valued on the trade market.

The Tribe used three of their five draft picks in 2020 on college pitchers. As I wrote about Monday, first-rounder Logan T. Allen has already moved up to Class AA Akron. Second-rounder Tanner Burns is probably not far behind as he’s pitching well at High-A Lake County.

THEY CAN MOVE UP FAST

If you look at the Tribe’s rotation, the top three are Bieber, Civale and Plesac. All were drafted in 2016. All three were in the rotation by the middle of the 2019 season.

Karinchak is a key part of the bullpen. He was drafted in ninth round of 2017. He was in the Majors by the end of the 2019 season. The Tribe picked Nick Sandlin (Southern Mississippi, second round) in 2018. He made the opening-day roster this season.

Looking at some of the pitchers drafted by the Tribe, you can see at least a few arriving in Cleveland within a few years.

Former Tribe assistant GM Dan O’Dowd worked the draft for MLB Network. He said Tribe first-rounder Gavin Williams (East Carolina), “Can be the absolute best pitcher taken in this draft.”

Ole Miss product Doug Nikhazy had a 24-6 record and 2.81 ERA in his college career. He’s a first-team All-American and just a big-time college pitcher.

In the third round, they picked Florida’s Tommy Mace.

MLB.com wrote: ”Mace didn’t have the flashiest year on paper last season, pitching to a 4.38 ERA, but his metrics are what are the most intriguing. The Indians have proven to be well above average at finding optimal pitchers to groom into successful big leaguers, and having those types of eye-catching metrics are what the organization is always looking for.”

The Tribe has the reputation of knowing the kind of pitchers they want to draft because they know how to develop them. Last year, O’Dowd told me Cleveland “was the best at developing pitchers” in all of baseball right now.

WHO REALLY KNOWS?

I haven’t seen these guys pitch. Nor has the vast majority of fans or those of us in the media writing about the draft.

But I do know the Tribe values college pitchers who are smart and have good control. They must have at least a 90-92 mph fastball. But they don’t need to light up the radar gun – although top pick Gavin Williams does that as he’s hit 100 mph this season.

Looking at some of the information on the Tribe’s lower-round picks, I’m intrigued by Rodney Boone. He went to UC-Santa Barbara (the school of Bieber and Kyle Nelson), where the eighth-rounder had a 21-5 career record and 2.52 ERA, striking out 11 per nine innings.

Fangraphs wrote this about Boone: “Boone managed to strike out 127 hitters in 98 innings this year while sitting just 86-88. His fastball has huge carry and a flat approach angle that helps it play at the top of the strike zone, and Boone peppers that area with it consistently. Boone also has a bat-missing secondary in his parachute changeup, an odd pitch that seems to float around the strike zone...Boone can also land his curveball for a strike...He’s a candidate to add velocity after college because of how fluid and flexible his delivery is.”

Fifth rounder Tanner Bibee from Cal-Fullerton had 6-6 record and 3.61 ERA for a team that was 20-35 this season. Bibee walked only 2.1 per nine innings.

I’m just tossing out names. They picked Georgia’s Ryan Webb in the fourth round. He was a projected second-rounder before hurting his arm in the spring and having Tommy John surgery in May.

In the past, the Tribe took Vinnie Pestano and Plesac after they had Tommy John surgery and that worked. The miss was Brady Aiken, the team’s first-rounder in 2015 who never came back after the operation to pitch effectively.

Will it work out? Who knows? But the odds of finding at least a few big league starters from this group of college pitchers from top programs puts the odds in the Tribe’s favor.

The deal with pitchers not really mentioned is what they can bring in trade return.

You can get MLB outfields for good pitching prospects, and can get a boatload for pitchers with MLB success.

Also, having a good pitcher on the mound is like having a good goalie in the net. Your odds of winning increase a great deal.


Another thought to add, we don't know how many teams have put out feelers some some of the prospects we already have in the system. Maybe this is a signal we are looking at trading a player or two.

Cleveland draft recap:

Rd1 RHP Gavin Williams ECU
Rd2 LHP Doug Nikhazy Ole MIss
CB-B RHP Tommy Mace - Florida
Rd3 SS Jake Fox - Lakeland Christian (FL)
Rd4 LHP Ryan Webb - Georiga
Rd5 RHP Tanner Bibee - Cal State Fullerton
Rd6 RHP Aaron Davenport - Hawaii
Rd7 RHP Jack Leftwich - Florida
Rd8 LHP Rodney Boone - UC Santa Barbara
Rd9 LHP Will Dion - McNeese State
Rd10 RHP Franco Aleman - Florida

Cleveland has 10 more picks in tomorrow's 3rd day (rounds 11-20)


With their 11th round pick Cleveland selected RHP Hunter Stanley out of Southern Miss

Hunter Stanley to the #Indians is ~chef's kiss~ in the 11th round. Excellent strikeout to walk rate, really impressive command overall and he touched 97 this spring though sits in the lower 90s.
#MLBDraft


With their 12th round pick, Cleveland selects OF Connor Kokx out of Long Beach State
As
@WillHoo99
points out, 12th round OF Connor Kokx is a redshirt FR (due to COVID last year) so he will likely get overslot, and Cleveland has been able to hang onto $ with these college arms.

13th round: Cleveland selects RHP Davis Sharpe out of Clemson
Looks like Sharpe is going to be a JR in 2022 and played both 3B and pitched for Clemson.

Did not have a great year statistically but has some leverage to go back to school next year to get more $ depending on what Cleveland offers here.

https://twitter.com/Official_IBI

Gov. Mike DeWine seeks state funding to renovate Progressive Field as part of Cleveland Indians’ lease extension

July 13, 2021

By Jeremy Pelzer, cleveland.com

COLUMBUS, Ohio — To help entice the Cleveland Indians into signing a long-term lease extension for Progressive Field, Gov. Mike DeWine said Tuesday he’s asked legislative leaders for state funding to help renovate the 27-year-old ballpark.

DeWine, speaking with reporters Tuesday, said while he’s not involved with day-to-day negotiations, it appears that the Indians are “moving toward” a 15-year lease extension, with the city of Cleveland and Cuyahoga County getting the option of two additional 5-year extensions after that. Cuyahoga County owns Progressive Field.

The governor declined to say how much the state would put up for Progressive Field renovations, as he’s said he’s yet to have “meaningful discussions” about the issue with state Senate President Matt Huffman or state House Speaker Bob Cupp. He also said he couldn’t say when he’s looking for lawmakers to approve the money, as that would depend on negotiations between the team and local leaders.

“But to me, the important thing was to have a long-term lease, and ... I’m very optimistic that that’s what we’re going to end up with,” he said.

“I’m going to do everything I can to see that the state puts money in this, and makes a difference, and helps -- helps -- to make it happen,” DeWine continued.

DeWine said he was asked several months ago by Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson and Cuyahoga County Executive Armond Budish if he could help with securing state funding as part of extending the team’s current lease, which expires in 2023. The governor said he’s been told that “things are going very well” with talks between those officials and the team.

Asked whether a lease extension would include a stipulation that the team couldn’t relocate, DeWine said, “No plan of relocating – none.”

The Dolan family, which owns the soon-to-be-renamed Indians, “are absolutely committed to Cleveland,” the governor continued. Matt Dolan, one of the co-owners, is currently a Republican state senator and is planning a run for retiring U.S. Sen. Rob Portman’s seat.

DeWine said the Indians, like the Cincinnati Reds at the opposite end of Ohio, are a relatively small-market team, and Major League Baseball doesn’t spread money among its teams as much as leagues in other sports, such as the National Football League.

“So a longer contract is just better,” he said.

Last year, Cuyahoga County officials agreed to pay the team $3.5 million to cover past repairs to Progressive Field, including replacing escalators, installing a system to regulate lights and heating, and expanding the players’ parking lot.

Curtis Danburg, a spokesman for the Indians, said the ballpark lease “is a complex, multi-faceted agreement,” and the team wants “those involved to have the time needed to conduct a thoughtful and thorough review with the future in mind.

He added: “It’s premature to comment on any aspect beyond that at this point in time.”


https://www.cleveland.com/open/2021/07/g...-extension.html

Just had a thought.

Treat the field and stadium just like a nuclear or coal burning power plant. They get financed and inspire tons of loyalty from Ohio politicians.

Just a thought.

Even the dumbest pols understand that people are particularly fond of keeping the lights on, staying warm in the winter, and cool in the summer.

This would be a good thing for baseball. Likely, this is being used as a bargaining chip for the upcoming CBA.

I renewed my Tribe season tickets today...against better judgement!

Renewing any type of season ticket might run against better judgement, but hey, when you are a fan, you are a fan.

I live 600 miles from Cleveland and have Browns season tickets. Trust me, I have questioned myself many times, but don't tell my wife.

Heck, if I lived up there or fairly near, I'd probably spring for some Indian's tickets as well. Maybe not a full season. I wouldn't go to 81 games, but could see some sort of 30 game package, or whatever was offered in that range.

And speaking of Indians and ticket sales, it seems to me the Indians do a poor job of selling corporate tickets. I don't see any reason they shouldn't have 1/2 to 2/3rds of the stadium sold before the season starts.

Every business over maybe 20 employees should have Indians tickets. Don't just send out mailers. Have people out on the streets knocking on doors. Sell those business owners on why it is important to be a citizen of the community.

20 people is a pretty small business. I'd imagine those budgets are pretty tight (especially lately) such that they have neither the ability nor the will to find extra cash to an org that has made it a regular practice to not pay their top employees and who are already going to fund stadium renovations via their tax dollars.

They used to pop into my restaurant, all the way out in Middlefield, every year. They would sell me (and others) twenty game half-price vouchers with a few freebies for a great price. I'd buy a few sheets and give them all away.

They were there every year for about ten years and then quit showing up about 2014. I called the office and they said "we're not doing that promo anymore". No offer for other plans or anything, just "sorry". I thought that was pretty weird for a team that struggled to put 10,000 in the stands.

Ok...what number sounds good to you? There are packages that aren't full season.

Good for you and that illustrates my point. You understood the value of being able to give some of those tickets to employees as a perk, or to customers, or even if a bit backwards, to some vendors delivery people for doing a great job in bringing your produce, or whatever.

Somewhere on that P&L is a line to which you could charge them that helped reduce the tax bite a bit if you elected to do that.

I guess my answer is, however large you have to be to extract tax dollars from the community.

Look... to each their own.... I'm just saying that if I'm a small or even medium business owner, that salesman is going to have a hard sell trying to convince me that it's my civic duty to buy tickets to a team that who's practice is to NOT pay to retain any of its best talent, and is about to gain some pretty significant incentives via new lease and tax-assisted projects for their stadium.

Each Division’s X-Factor Entering Baseball’s Second Half

The races for first place are going to be tight. Here are the players who will define how the next two and a half months shake out.

https://www.si.com/mlb/2021/07/15/mlb-second-half-key-players-the-opener


Central: Cleveland SP Triston McKenzie

Finding an x-factor that will determine the AL Central is difficult when the White Sox stand head and shoulders above the competition. If Cleveland is to make this race interesting—and it's the only club with any shot at doing so—then the starting pitching must at least tread water until the currently injured big guns (Shane Bieber, Zach Plesac and Aaron Civale) return. Of the pitchers that remain standing, McKenzie is the one most able to stem the tide.

McKenzie was regarded as one of the top pitching prospects in baseball heading into 2020, and he backed up the hype in his first taste of the big leagues. Last season, he posted a 3.24 ERA and struck out 42 batters over 33 1/3 innings. The Cleveland organization consistently churns out good young pitchers, with McKenzie emerging as next in line.

But then he got off to a rocky start in 2021 and struggled with his command, prompting two demotions to the minors. Now back in the majors for a third time this year, he was superb in his most recent outing, striking out nine over seven one-hit innings against Kansas City. If he and the rest of Cleveland’s starters can keep the team within striking distance until the cavalry arrives, this race could have a semblance of drama. Otherwise, a sell-off at the trade deadline could (and should) be imminent.

I heard Tom Hamilton say that McKenzie's fast ball was sitting at 89-90-91. Back when he was coming up, the Indians said it was high 90's, like 96-98. That's a concern. Every time I see Tristan pitch I think "good grief, somebody get this guy a cheeseburger and a milk shake". He needs some sand in his caboose. The great pitchers almost always have that.

Height: 6'5"
Weight: 165 lbs


Make that a double cheeseburger and a couple shakes.

That tax laws changed regarding deductions for sporting event tickets creating less of an incentive for companies to purchase season ticket packages.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/05/business...-and-games.html

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-pa...-law-2018-02-08

On a side note, I do not buy a full season ticket package. I cannot imagine having the time or desire to attend all 81 games. I've done 20 and 40 game packages. Typically 20 is ideal. 40 games I gave away more than 1/2 my tickets to family and friends. Too busy with my kids in baseball, travel for work, summer vacation, etc.

I still probably give 3-5 games away on the 20 game package. Indians do a nice job with perks for the STH and the prices are discounted a good amount compared to buying single game tickets.

In his last start he was hitting 96, 97 on the gun

Drop the 'In' and replace it with 'Guar.' Keep the same color scheme and script.

Just helping make the thread name accurate.

"Indians" is the name through the 2021 season. The change takes effect for the 2022 season.

Our bullpen is toast, we’ve had to use them WAY to much with our starters out.

Happy Birthday Frenchy!

Have a terrific day!

CLEVELAND — The trade deadline is creeping up in Major League Baseball, and the Cleveland Indians are now reportedly participants in the action.

According to ESPN, the team has traded second baseball Cesar Hernandez to the rival Chicago White Sox. In return, the White Sox have sent left-handed pitcher Konnor Pilkington to Cleveland, according to MLB.com.



pitcher
items.[0].image.alt
Photo by: Tony Dejak/AP
(AP Photo/Tony Dejak, File)
By: Danny CunninghamPosted at 12:01 PM, Jul 29, 2021 and last updated 12:01 PM, Jul 29, 2021
CLEVELAND — The trade deadline is creeping up in Major League Baseball, and the Cleveland Indians are now reportedly participants in the action.

According to ESPN, the team has traded second baseball Cesar Hernandez to the rival Chicago White Sox. In return, the White Sox have sent left-handed pitcher Konnor Pilkington to Cleveland, according to MLB.com.


Hernandez spent the past season and a half as the second baseman in Cleveland, winning a Gold Glove last year for his stellar efforts defensively. So far this season he’s hit a career-high 18 home runs and did lead the league in doubles in 2020.

As for Pilkington, he’s a left-handed pitcher that is still in the minor leagues. He was Chicago’s third-round draft pick back in 2018 out of Mississippi State. He had spent this entire season with Chicago’s AA affiliate, the Birmingham Barons. While in Birmingham, Pilkington amassed a record of four wins and four losses in 14 games (all starts). The lefty has struck out 71 batters while walking 21 in 62 innings pitched on the season and posted a 3.48 earned run average.

The Major League Baseball Trade Deadline is Friday, July 30, at 4 p.m.

https://www.news5cleveland.com/sports/re...-league-pitcher

j/c...