DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Who got the Better end of the OBJ Trade ?

Giants GM Dave Gettleman on how trading Odell Beckham Jr. to Browns has worked out: ‘I’m happy’


By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio — With the Giants coming to town this week for joint practices on Thursday and Friday and the second preseason game Sunday at FirstEnergy Stadium, the Odell Beckham Jr. trade and its aftermath will be in the news week.

The Giants got the ball rolling Monday morning with their annual training camp address with GM Dave Gettleman and owner John Mara.

Gettleman, asked about the haul he got in the trade he made with his good friend John Dorsey before the 2019 season, said ‘I’m happy.’ The bounty included former Browns first-round safety Jabrill Peppers, defensive tackle Dexter Lawrence (selected with the 2019 No. 17 overall pick in the trade) and edge-rusher Oshane Ximines (selected with the 2019 No. 95 overall pick from the trade).


“Ya know? There’s Dexter,’' Gettleman. “X-man’s had his injury issues but he’s out there showing promise. And Jabrill’s done a hell of a job for us.”

Peppers has been a solid safety, Lawrence has excelled as a run defender who notched four sacks from the interior position last season, and Ximines showed great promise with 4.5 sacks as a rookie before suffering a season-ending shoulder injury last season.

Beckham, meanwhile, had a 1,000-yard season in Freddie Kitchens’ nightmare of an offense in 2019, and suffered a season-ending torn ACL on Oct. 25th in Cincinnati last season. Before the injury, he strapped the team on his back and scored three touchdown in the victory over Dallas, and without that win, the Browns don’t make the playoffs. His chemistry with Mayfield is still a work in progress, but he’s looked amazing in his recovery from the torn ACL -- despite limited work in training camp -- and appears poised for a career season.

With the Browns a bona fide Super Bowl contender this year, Beckham could be the key piece that puts them over the top. He certainly would’ve come in handy in the 22-17 divisional loss to the Chiefs.


“If Odell Beckham Jr. is healthy, he may be the most impactful acquisition of any player in terms of someone that really didn’t play last year, moreso than Trevor Lawrence or Zach Wilson,’’ ESPN’s Mike Tannenbaum said recently in an interview with cleveland.com about Baker Mayfield. “If he’s at his best, it changes everything. I mean he’s Tyreek Hill.’’

Giants owner John Mara said Monday “I think the Odell trade is a trade that will work out well for both sides.’’

Shortly after Beckham was traded to Cleveland, he told SI.com, “this wasn’t no business move. This was personal. They thought they’d send me here to die.”

Beckham, reunited with his college best friend Jarvis Landry here, struggled in his first season in Cleveland, largely because of a core muscle injury he had repaired after the season. The offense was also disorganized and disconnected under Kitchens during that 6-10 season.

But he’s 100% bought into the Browns with Kevin Stefanski at the helm, and will be a key part of what promises to be an explosive offense this season.


If the Browns go deeper into the playoffs this season and Beckham is a big reason why, they can still claim victory on the trade.

This is pretty clearly a win for the Giants at this point.

Good rule of thumb.
Any side looking back and asking whether they got the better, or trying to convince that they got the better of a trade.

Lost the trade.

I believe at this juncture you are absolutely right.

Now that Baker is getting the kind of coaching he needed I believe will see the issues that stopped OBJ and Baker maximizing OBJ's output, are a thing of the past.

I watched a tape of OBJ running a deep route and Baker thought he would cut the play inside and OBJ kept going and Baker was nearly intercepted and the fault was all Bakers, OBJ ran the route correctly and the play should have resulted in a TD had Baker read the play correctly this was a homerun. The safety had positioned himself about 1-2 yards to the left of OBJ and about 5-7 yards upfield from OBJ. The safety was flat footed in the sense that he was hardly moving Baker threw the ball five yards to the left of the safety thinking that OBJ would take a hard left when he should have thrown the ball about 2 yards inside or to the right of OBJ and about 7 yards deeper then the safety there is no doubt OBJ had the safety set up to be beaten deep.

Baker has struggled to get on the same page with OBJ on deep balls that I am sure of, but Baker has transformed into a much better QB sense OBJ went down he is becoming a true franchise QB in that he understands coverages much much better and he is at this point moving safeties with his eyes. Baker IMO has struggled because when he arrived in Cleveland our coaching was horrible it truly is that simple. To Bakers credit he never let it slow him down, he just kept really doing his best and never became gun shy. I don't think any other draft pick from the choices we had would have survived the 1st couple of years Baker had. That is actually something we as a group of wanta-be-HC have never really talked about.

Baker is the guy I believe he has the potential to be an all time great. One of the things that truly helped Brady when he started to play was that he was very well coached #1, and #2 he had a franchise QB to learn from in terms of preparation. The fact that Baker had been rejected most of his football career gave him the strength to continue to put his head down and work. That all changed when Ski arrived they set in motion a real plan to develop Baker and I truly think of him as a second year QB. What it truly brought into focus for me was how important it is to have people who knew how to develop talent. In the years we have struggled we never had that outside of Mangini. I know fans road Mangini and Daboll hard in spite of the nearly total lack of talent, but now we see now how good a coach Deboll was and is.

When Sunday afternoon arrives we see the results of player development, and that is a long process. But what makes me think that we are on the verge of a dynasty is that the group of coaches headed by Ski is they put all there effort not so much into developing a game plan for Sunday as they do into overall player development. That is why I believe that we will be in for a dynasty ride. Will see player go but the guys that are behind them have spent all their time being coached hard so when they are called on they are ready.

I think and I have no way of knowing this and it's truly not talked about probably as much as it should be is the fact that these guys have a plan in place to develop every single player on the roster. They have a clear definition of exactly what they need from every player. They can look at a players tape and from that they can develop and execute a plan to get that player where they need to be to have success. And of course they have a time frame in mind to get that player where they need to be. They are constantly monitoring every players progress. We see very little drop in team play when 1 guy goes down because the guys all have a development plan in place and they are ready for the field when they get there.

That is why Ski is always talking about work because it takes work on the players part to develop and because at this point they get players to buy into that concept the work is getting done. We now have a winning program in place stocked with top shelf talent and we are developing our starters replacement as we go along. There is much much more focus on the bottom of the roster then any of us probably believe and these guys are great as a group at developing each player.

Your right for a change, TODAY.

But if Baker and OBJ get on the same page and they set the league on fire this year and end up bringing home the Lombardi who won then?

The final chapter may have a very different ending don't you think?

Bone I agree with parts of what you said and in still other ways I disagree.

I think OBJ and Mayfield will have a huge year together he was the missing ingredient last year in my mind especially when it came to KC.

Last season KC played man press coverage in our game against them if and I hope they do play man press against us game one OBJ will take them apart.

He is a game changer even if KC abandons man press because that will mean KC has to use at least one of their safeties to try to take OBJ away and that means other guys get freed up and we take them apart from there.

But I look for OBJ to have games like he did in Dallas last year only this time with Mayfield feeding him the ball when teams try to man cover him. Mayfield and OBJ I believe are in a much better place because Mayfield now understands how to get the ball to OBJ so when he does target him the results will be much more positive.

That doesn't mean an offense geared towards getting the ball in his hands it means when they do go to OBJ it will have a much higher degree of success because I believe Mayfield finally understands how and when to use OBJ and how to feed him the ball correctly. A better understanding of route adjustments and how to exploit those route adjustments. I believe and I could be wrong Mayfield didn't understand what OBJ was doing when he adjusted his route, now he does and that will make their connection finally work.

Poor coaching I believe has held back Baker, that is no longer an issue and now that Baker understands the concepts being used he will have a much better success rate across the board with all of his receivers not just OBJ. I truly believe he will have a unbelievable year as will the Browns as a team.....

But will get a snap shot of how the OBJ Baker connection will be working this season game one.

At this juncture, "King John" (can't say that without laughing at my computer) was bested twice by Dave Gettlemen. The Vernon-for-Zeitler trade was an instant "L", and the Odell trade has clearly not worked up to this point.

Dave "Trust The Gut" Gettlemen.

Ugh.

MEMPHIS,

You really think we lost the Vernon for Zeitler trade? At worst I see that as a wash. Also wouldn't likely have Teller now, if we were searching for a Zeitler replacement.

( And I thought it was obvious). I already think the Browns won, or whatever have moved on from worrying about that trade, but thought it was obvious;
Because the Giants have been the ones always bringing up "who won the trade".
Jabril Peppers was nice though, but didn't we move on from this at least a year and a half ago.

The Teller transaction doesn’t factor in (especially because he barely played when we traded for him).

One of the reasons Baker was so bad in year two was because our offensive line took a huge hit. Zeitler being gone was a huge part of that.

Not sure how you can say that...Teller started 9 games in 2019, and played in 15. And yes, he was not graded well. But he absolutely was brought in as part of the plan to replace Zeitler. JMO, but Greg Robinson + Kendall Lamm as our tackles probably had a lot more to do with the failures than RG.

That aside, we filled 1 hole and made another in that trade.

One could make the argument that the OBJ trade was a/the precursor to ousting Freddie and us bringing in KS.... so ultimate win for us, right? /s


At this point, if we absolutely have to decide who 'won', then it's obviously the Giants. But that means exactly diddly, if for no other reason than we still have yet to see OBJ's full impact here.

I still think we will end up winning this trade when OBJ has a breakout year in 2021.

What have the Giants achieved since the trade? They suck. How does that make them the winner? Do they even have Zeitler anymore?

OBJ is still here, and can still be a factor.

After an unremarkable time in NY Kevin is now in Baltimore.

I thought of the question as who has won the trade up until this date. If that’s the question then the value of the players the Giants received is greater than the players we received. If this question is asked again in six months the answer might be different.

My guess is that OBJ will be on a different team next year and the question will be answered with finality.

Whoa whoa whoa, this isn't even up for debate, the Browns clearly won that trade. sigh.
Nobody appears to be factoring in how the presence of Odell on the 2020 Browns helped the Browns 2020 running game, in the first 5-6 weeks. For a while, the Browns were #1 in the NFL in yards rushing.

IMO, we lost the Zeitler trade Vernon came on late last year after finally getting healthy, but we got a great glimpse at what we hoped to gain thru this trade. That said because he was hurt most of the time he was here we clearly lost on that trade. I see people arguing about some imagined plan for Teller.

Not to mention we were all pretty alarmed by the right guard position heading into last season, and I don't believe we would have come out of that as well as we did if not for Callahan and he wasn't here when Zietler was. People who act like Teller was in our plans have a sideways thought process if you ask me, but hey have had it.

That all said we gave up our 2019 1st round pick and Peppers who was really starting to come into his own at the time to get OBJ. They clearly won that trade to date that all can change if OBJ has a great year this year. I believe he will have a great year this year that Bake is ready to finally work with a elite WR like OBJ. I don't truly blame OBJ for not being as productive as he could have been I blame Bake. That said I also realize that there have been times where OBJ dropped balls when he should have caught them, and a few of those times it was critical he catch the ball.

I also believe that at times OBJ was a distraction from football with the visor thing and the shoe thing, it was ridiculous and a good coach wouldn't have allowed it IMO. That said all of these things start over for me game one in KC, if the Browns win the Lombardi and I truly believe they will none of this will matter we will have won the trade in fact it won't even be close.

The Giants weren't in a position to maximize what OBJ brings to the table nor were the Browns in truth, but right now at this moment we really need OBJ's skill set it will change how defenses have to game plan against us, so even if OBJ isn't the target he will make it so other guys around him prosper because he is on the field. Baker and OBJ need to prove that he is a weapon worthy of extra attention, I believe that will take place from there this offense will be very explosive in every area. Not that their not now as is.

Remember though the Vernon and OBJ trades were 2 separate events.

Without OBJ we don't beat the Cowboys last year. Without that win we don't make the playoffs, and we don't win a playoff game. So for that reason alone I say we got the best of that trade.

I understand what your saying here but I have higher hopes for that deal and I believe you do too!

j/c...

Just throwing this out there as part of the equation that has been forgotten:

Baker seemed to have a serious rapport with Breshad Perriman in 2018 (although they only played six games together). We reached a verbal agreement the morning of the OBJ trade which we voided at his request once the trade went down.

If only there were a 20 week span between the end of the season and training camp to look back and bellyache about sour trades,
but, practicing against the Giants, all that should matter,
is the NY medias' narratives??? and how they can spin a conversation on a 3 year old trade to draw interest?

Browns could call up Detroit and offer a one on one trade, OBJ for Breshad Perriman, and see which side would balk first.

(like trading a HOT dog cart, for a Yacht!) and 3 years later which is worth more.

Well. The Yacht has cost buku amounts in maintence,
but! it's gone up in value.

The HOT dog cart, was a consistent money maker,
but! it's a HOT dog cart.

The word you were looking for is 'beaucoup', not buku. It's French, not Zulu... unless the person cost us book amounts in maintenance, then it is Zulu and it is 'buku'.

j/c:



Pretty sure Zak Jackson get his story ideas from Dawgtalkers.

Referenced from the movie full metal jacket memories, wasn't a great context in that movie, ha.

Too much! "no mas" edit: no mas is referencing a clip of a boxer in a boxing ring from 22 1/2 years ago on espn.
certainly not as in 'merci beaucoup

OMG! #1 WR running barefoot... why!?

Got that idea from Braylon?

My post was half joke/sarcasm, but also a little serious. We had that Braylon situation and the board melted down (team kinda did the same), but in all seriousness... why do they do that? I would think best practice would be to give your feet at least a minimal level of protection at all time.

because it just feels good to run barefoot

I remember reading on here that KS likes to have the team wear normal shoes at the start of practice for their feet to breathe and stretch to maintain grip without cleats. Most of the players wear Crocs or slippers, but some go barefoot.