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The problem is states need the gas tax as well. States with lower populations, such as Nevada count on drivers passing through and filling up.

Maybe all EV have a annual tag they have to renew that costs them a few hundred bucks.

Based on say 25,000 miles a year....seems like a good average.

If a person averages say 26MPG total, that is about 960 gallons of gas used per year. A quick look showed the average state and federal gas tax is .47 per gallon. That is basically $450 each driver pays per year in gas tax.

Somehow EV drivers will need to pay a similar amount in tax to keep equal dollars flowing.

Simple fix: stop calling it a 'gas tax,' and start calling it a 'usage fee.'


I've always had no problem with paying a gas tax. I pay for everything else I use in life, whether purchased from public or private sources. If I switch to an EV, I'll still be using the roads. It's only right that I should pay my way like everyone else.

I carry my share of the load without complaint.
I do my share with no complaint.

Besides, my primary goal of driving an EV is to reduce my carbon footprint. My yard working gear is all electric. I've never owned a gas lawn mower or string trimmer. My yard work is quiet, efficient, and doesn't stink of partially-burnt hydrocarbons.

My father and Uncle (a truck driver) used to go round and round over who should pay for roads. Father's point would be that Trucks (semis) do the most damage to the roads, so most of the burden should fall on those businesses that ship their goods.

My uncle being a trucker believed that roads helped everybody, and everybody should pay the same (cutting the amount a shipping business would pay if it were all on them).

I think trucks do cause more damage too, but I see no way of passing that on without some sort of shipping tax which in the end would still hit everyone... except those that don't buy shipped items or buy less. That would be a fairer distribution of the costs if we want a true USE tax. A flat rate for all with license plates, then a shipping tax to carry 2/3s of the upkeep expense.

You really think they will conduct this pilot and then not apply it to all vehicles? Taking peoples money is what the government does. Making people with ICE vehicles pay a gas tax and fee per mile is something the government will do. Punish people for having an ICE vehicle in hopes they will go EV. It will happen.

I think they will adapt to one system of taxing vehicles. That's the reason this is being looked into. A way to adapt a usage tax on our highways that creates a situation to where as we change over to EV's we have a taxation system fair to owners of both types of vehicles. That will end up being a usage tax based on mileage for all vehicles. Not double dip on gas vehicles. This really isn't complicated. But then again I'm not looking for some conspiracy theory around every corner.

You may wish to take a look at this. It's been around for a long time.

Heavy Highway Vehicle Use Tax

https://www.atbs.com/post/heavy-highway-vehicle-use-tax

Was not aware of that tax, thanks. Like I said it was between my dad and uncle a long time ago. Heck it might have been when this was being debated for all I know. Thought about that conversation briefly many times since then but never put a second into researching it.

I've never really heard truckers who work for trucking companies discuss it. But owner operators go on about it all the time. They certainly cause more road damage due to their weight and the miles they log.

In the end that is probably want will happen, at least in the long term. It's what they do over the next 10 years that will be a concern.

I have little doubt that EV's will eventually supplant ICE vehicles. The question to be answered is how soon?

Look at internet sales and tax collections. It's still a mess even though it is way past the point of not discouraging internet sales. Something needs to be done about that.

The 7.5 billion for bolstering charging stations will certainly be helpful with that.

Shouldn't that be the job of private business??

Are these charging stations going to be state run or are we building them for some private business?

Is that money for R&D or in the form of tax breaks for business to move forward. I can buy in to that to a degree. I don't know if $7.5 billion is a good number or not.

I would think the feds gave some sort of incentive to companies like Comcast to string wire and AOL to build platforms to host the net.

I guess my question is how is the 7.5 billion going to be awarded? The details is what counts.

I don't know. They've been subsidizing the coal, oil and gas industry for decades now. Agriculture subsidies, healthcare subsidies and the list goes on.

I guess it depends if you think the government should spend money on helping develop a more efficient energy sources to help save the planet or not. I haven't noticed you carry on about spending government money on those other things or ask if they are going to be state run.

Give me 7.5 billion, I'll spend every cent putting in charging stations across the country and then reap the profits from the charges to hook up and charge.

I like the concept, but I'd really like to know what stipulations there are in getting the money. Like you said, Comcast probably got subsidies to run internet lines, and then they profit heavily to supply the product to the consumer.

So it's no problem giving subsidies to oil and gas but now that it's renewable energy you're suddenly concerned?

One, you will never find were I ever said anything about subsidies for oil and gas.

Two, I've never liked giving subsidies to profitable business without stipulations. There should be a trade off, if you're taking taxpayer money, there should be a benefit to the taxpayer, otherwise, use your own profits to pay for it.

Same goes for grants to pharmaceuticals, and such.

If you dig deep enough, you might even find in the past where I mentioned that I think Electric, Gas and Water, and maybe internet, should be government run co-ops to provide the basic necessities to everyone at a fair price. That price basically covering the service and the costs to maintain/repair services, non-profit.

I think we actually agree to a point. Where I think we differ is in terms of investing in new technology. New technology is an area where I believe you either advance in the world or fall behind. It's more so an investment in the future of your economy than an investment in a business. We are already well behind China in terms of EV's. It's not even close.

It's sort of like investing in college. Here in Tennessee high school graduates get two free years of college. Yes, free to them, not free to everyone.

Now one can perceive that into funneling tax money into educational institutions. Tennessee, who is heavily red sees it as an investment in bringing high paying jobs to the state and helping the states economy long term. You must have an educated populace to attract and fill those jobs in order to attract those jobs. If we as a nation plan to advance the future of our job market, we must also invest in the future to accomplish the same goal.

That's how I see the advancement of EV's. It's an investment in the future of our economy. I certainly understand how people may view it differently.

Sounds a little like socialism...

Where's Peen when you need him?

Another area we should dump some money-even if it is seed money or money for site remediation-is in production of necessary items this country needs that we shouldn't be getting from third world countries but are-like medicine or semiconductors-

I saw a short video this morning about the chip shortage for 5g and automobiles-and the analyst doing the video says among other issues that we have to wait for older technology to get back into production in areas like South Korea-because we can't count on China anymore because they are on purposedly holding back sending some chips to the US because they are still po'd at the trump tariff.

https://electrek.co/2021/08/02/heres-wha...e-bill-for-evs/


Electric vehicle charging stations: $7.5 billion for electric vehicle charging stations, with a focus on highways and routes that connect rural and disadvantaged communities. The good news? It’s the first-ever US investment in EV chargers. The bad news is it’s only half of what President Joe Biden wanted in order to build a national network of 500,000 charging stations.


I also know from seeing some bid requests coming in-there are lots of requests at least in PA and Ohio right now for EV charging projects in state parks and at municipal buildings with parking decks or larger surface lots.

I certainly won't disagree with you there. On the chip shortage there is already some good news. It doesn't help our current situation but is a good sign for the future...

Intel is spending $20 billion to build two new chip plants in Arizona

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/23/intel-is...in-arizona.html

TSMC Construction of Arizona Chip Plant Is ‘Well Underway’

https://www.supplychainbrain.com/article...s-well-underway

Do we really need a fully-fleshed out charging network? I understand not everyone (especially renters) will have the ability to get a good charging setup where they live, but many people can and will. We don't need as many charging stations as we do gas stations as a large portion of EV drivers will do 90+% of their refueling at home.

Start by installing them in every interstate rest area and turnpike comfort center. That would form the spine of our infrastructure.

Build out from there.

No. But we need to inspire confidence to a consumer base that is used to gas stations on every corner. I think the govt is firm in their stance of "build it and they will come"... we'll see to what extent that is true over the next decade or so.

I think this is the right approach. Govt buildings (parking lots, etc) parks, muni public parking areas. From there we may find that our only hurdle is rural areas.

When did the greatest country in the would become so dependent upon other countries?
We really need to become self dependent augmented by the production of "stuff" from other countries.

When we became controlled by greedy corps and shareholders that will outsource toilet paper to save 5 cents.

Airports. That is one of the major hurdles for me to consider a full EV. I either need a reliable 300+ range or easy access to charge in the airport lot.

I drive to Fort Lauderdale for flights, due to availability. It's 130ish miles each way, with regular traffic issues due to accidents. I don't want to have to stop once I get back into town and charge up before heading home across the Alley, 80 miles of nothing but Everglades and 1 Indian, err Native American Reservation, gas station.

Wonder if the airport Long Term lot could have a mobile charging vehicle, that goes around based on a reservation system, and does a quick charge the morning of your arrival? hmmm.

There are a lot of funds included for airport infrastructure. I have no idea if charging stations are a part of that.

All airports should have train service as well. I dislike having to get a car or Uber/Lyft.

Is there any way we can perhaps convert the Jewish space lasers into wireless EV chargers?

I agree. A lot of people think of them like gas stations, but really, the business model will probably end up being more like ATMs. If you own a business or parking area, you will buy a charging station that is tied into some sort of payment network. Electricity is everywhere, so there is really no need for large scale infrastructure deployment. The bigger problem is making the business model work, because, like you said, most people are going to charge at home 90% of the time or more.

Yes. Not everyone driving around town is a local. My drive to go skiing is 250-300 miles round trip. An EV will not make that in a single charge. There's people that take road trips and vacationers that will need a place to charge that is not their home.

Actually many of the new models of EV's meet or exceed 300 miles on a single charge. As you state that certainly won't help long range vacation travelers or people who drive long range. But exceeding 300 miles on a single charge will certainly help eliminate the vast majority of obstacles the average driver will face.

Top 10 EVs with the longest range

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/advice-electric-cars/top-10-evs-longest-range

Unless you plan on getting a Porsche or high end Audi EV, Tesla EVs will more than make a trip like that.

You need to update your information.

Like MPG, these ranges are likely under ideal circumstances. What happens when you load up the car for a road trip? Two other factors in my case with the ski trips:
1. Cold. Batteries drain faster in the cold
2. Altitude. I'm going up hill. I gain about 5,000 feet of elevation on my drive.

I get less than the posted mpg in my current car making these drives. I would expect to get less than the posted distance on a charge in an EV.

bro so many people around the world got EVs in conditions you talking about now.

EVs are all up in the ski resorts in switzerland.

https://www.sno.co.uk/ski-holidays/ev-driving-to-alps/

by the way, there are entire communities and message boards dedicated to outdoor living with EV's, especially here in america.

the information has been out there for some time now. you're either choosing to be ignorant to maintain some anti-EV narrative, or seriously need to look outside of your normal scope of information sources.

Makes sense. As with most things as the technology advances I would say the ranges will increase. There are a few models that reach well over 300 miles per charge but they are very high end models that would not be a practical alternative for the budget of most consumers at this point in time.

I never said an EV couldn't make the drive. Whats being discussed is can EV make the drive I make on a single charge? I pointed out factors of winter driving that will reduce the distance an EV can go on a single charge. Your site even states EV will get shorter range in the cold.

Your site talks about planning routes with charging stations. I'm talking about making a drive with no charging stations.