DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Covid Fright Night Part 4

Trust your Gestapo spin.

It’s amazing that some whackadoo can get recorded in a public forum and a 5000 word research article is needed to rebut his lies.

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You’ll Refuse the Covid Jab After You Hear What These Doctors Have to Say
by Adan Salazar

Professionals in the medical field have serious concerns over the fate of humanity amid the global vaccine rollout

While the establishment blasts non-stop vaccine propaganda, several prominent medical doctors have issued dire warnings that it’s not safe for use in humans.

The declarations going directly against the pro-vax narrative have prompted social media giants to silence and censor the doctor’s views on Covid-19.

Watch these doctors warn about the dangers of the experimental mRNA jabs, which have not yet been approved by the FDA.

Dr. Charles Hoffe

During a Zoom meeting with other medical professionals, Lytton, British Columbia, family physician Dr. Charles Hoffe, who was put under a gag order by the Canadian government, claimed many vaccinated people could be dead within three years after he found blood clots in a majority of vaccinated patients due to spike proteins contained in the mRNA jab.

“The concern is: because these vessels are now permanently damaged in a person’s lungs, when the heart tries to pump blood through all those damaged vessels there’s increased resistance trying to pump the blood through those lungs.”

“So those people are going to develop something called ‘pulmonary artery hypertension’ – high blood pressure in their lungs, and the concern with that is that those people will probably all develop right-sided heart failure within three years and die because they now have increased vascular resistance through their lungs.”


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While the establishment blasts non-stop vaccine propaganda, several prominent medical doctors have issued dire warnings that it’s not safe for use in humans.

The declarations going directly against the pro-vax narrative have prompted social media giants to silence and censor the doctor’s views on Covid-19.

Watch these doctors warn about the dangers of the experimental mRNA jabs, which have not yet been approved by the FDA.

Dr. Charles Hoffe

During a Zoom meeting with other medical professionals, Lytton, British Columbia, family physician Dr. Charles Hoffe, who was put under a gag order by the Canadian government, claimed many vaccinated people could be dead within three years after he found blood clots in a majority of vaccinated patients due to spike proteins contained in the mRNA jab.


Click here for YouTube version

“The concern is: because these vessels are now permanently damaged in a person’s lungs, when the heart tries to pump blood through all those damaged vessels there’s increased resistance trying to pump the blood through those lungs.”

“So those people are going to develop something called ‘pulmonary artery hypertension’ – high blood pressure in their lungs, and the concern with that is that those people will probably all develop right-sided heart failure within three years and die because they now have increased vascular resistance through their lungs.”

Watch – Alex Jones reports: Deadly Blood Clots Develop In 62% of People Receiving COVID Vaccine


Dr. Michael Yeadon

Former Pfizer Vice President and Chief Science Officer Dr. Michael Yeadon has warned the vaccines could be used for “nefarious purposes” possibly to move forward a depopulation agenda.

“I’m very worried … that pathway will be used for mass depopulation, because I can’t think of any benign explanation,” Yeadon told LifeSite News reporter Patrick Delaney.


https://www.infowars.com/posts/youll-ref...rs-have-to-say/

So Pfizer (a publicly traded company), under Operation Warp Speed (Trump Admin) designed a "Depopulation Vaccine" and was submitted to the FDA, granted EUA and then full approval... but is actually intended to kill off vast swaths of people? This same vaccine that has gone through the scientific and public rigor/scrutiny is not only NOT safe and effective, but is actually going to kill people because that is what it's intended to do?

But don't worry, we have horse pills to kill parasites?


Dude, you need a serious rebalancing of your meds, stat.

155,000 Hospitalized for Vaccine Effects… And Why Our Government Is Hiding This Fact
by Dr. Marilyn Singleton August 23, 2021

Note: Dr. Singleton is a member of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, AAPS.

In Patrick Henry’s June 4, 1788, speech, “A Wrong Step Now and the Republic Will Be Lost Forever,” he pleaded for less power to the federal government and the preservation of states’ and individual rights as a condition for ratification of the Constitution. We got our Bill of Rights, including freedom of religion, speech, assembly and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. We also have the right to be secure in our “persons, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures.” And we cannot be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.

Despite the Constitution’s admonitions, fear and anxiety have led to an increase in federal powers. The Great Depression gave birth to some 70 new agencies and programs. The mother of all programs was the Social Security Act, constitutionally justified under Congress’ constitutional taxing power. We have been so irrational as to deem it constitutional to place American citizens in internment camps with no due process.

COVID-19 is the latest justification for government overreach in the name of public health. There is little reason for confidence given the CDC’s faulty COVID-19 tests, the conflicting information on the usefulness of wearing masks and censoring of effective treatments that were not on the infallible Dr. Fauci’s personal favorite list. (Note: The World Health Organization recommended against the use of his favored drug, remdesivir).

Adding to the erosion of trust is the change in definition of a COVID-19 “case.” Prior to the vaccination rollout, any positive COVID-19 test – with or without symptoms – was a “case.” Now, a positive test in a vaccinated person is only considered a “case” if the patient was hospitalized or died.

The federal health bureaucracy is encouraging businesses and local governments to mandate vaccines, despite the growing list of adverse effects, their modest effectiveness against the predominant Delta variant and the imminent need for booster shots.

According to data gathered from the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System, as of Aug. 23, 2021, there have been 13,068 deaths, 154,142 hospitalizations, 5,617 cases of anaphylaxis, 4,681 cases of Bell’s Palsy, 1,607 miscarriages, 4,861 cases of myocarditis/pericarditis, 13,812 life-threatening reactions and 17,228 permanently disabled, among other issues. On one hand, it is arguable that this is a pittance given that 360,634,287 doses of Pfizer, Moderna, or Johnson & Johnson/Janssen (J&J) vaccines have been given. On the other hand, a 2011 Harvard study concluded that only 1% of adverse events are reported to the government system.

Other drugs have been removed for less. The 1976 H1N1 (swine flu) vaccine was rapidly developed over fears that the flu would overtake the nation as did the 1918 Spanish Flu. The vaccinations were halted after 45 million doses and 450 cases of Guillain Barré Syndrome (ascending paralysis). As it turned out, millions did not die.

A 2011 Harvard study concluded that only 1% of adverse events are reported to the government system.

We all remember the limb deformities at birth caused by the 1956 over-the-counter anti-nausea drug, thalidomide. It took four years to make the connection. Another hidden dragon was diethystilbesterol (DES). Believed to reduce miscarriages, DES was given to pregnant women for 30 years. In 1971, after it was discovered that DES could cause genital abnormalities and vaginal cancer, the FDA withdrew approval for pregnant women. It took five years to discover that the anti-inflammatory drug Vioxx may cause heart disease. One report estimated that some 140,000 people suffered from coronary artery disease because of Vioxx.

We do not know all the risks of the current COVID-19 vaccines available in the United States. Yet the vaccines are given in drive-through parking lots with little to no discussion.

Moderna’s, Pfizer’s, and J&J’s fact sheets warn that the “vaccine may not protect all recipients.” The Moderna and Pfizer fact sheets give special mention to myocarditis and pericarditis reported “during mass vaccination outside of clinical trials.” J&J specifically notes the large vein blood clots.

Additionally, all the fact sheets note that “additional adverse reactions, some of which may be serious, may become apparent with more widespread use of the Moderna [Pfizer, J&J] COVID-19 Vaccine.” It appears that we are nonconsenting participants in the final phase of the vaccine trials.

Given that no one knows the risks, how can physicians (much less the “provider” in the drive-through window) give the patients the information needed to decide whether the potential benefit of taking the drug is worth the risk?

Drunk with power and preying on our fears, the federal government is having corporations do its bidding. Mandates unsupported by medical science could be the greatest threat to our lives and liberty.

Take heart. The spirit of Patrick Henry is alive. A professor – using the science – won a medical exemption from vaccination because his antibodies from a prior COVID-19 infection are longer lasting that those of a vaccine. Airline pilots are suing for a restraining order against mandates until “the science/medicine is more fully developed and better understood.” Teachers, health care workers, first responders are demanding choice.

Since the establishment of our republic, we have taken some very wrong steps. Let’s not let the COVID-19 response become another one.

Mandates unsupported by medical science could be the greatest threat to our lives and liberty.

Editor’s Commentary: The last time I spoke with Dr. Singleton, she told me something off the record that I can now repeat since it has happened. She said they will try to rush FDA approval in record-time instead of waiting for the science. That’s exactly what we’re seeing today, and it should concern us all gravely for three reasons.

The first reason applies only to the unvaccinated. Since this approval has no practical purpose as it does not expand the scope of the Emergency Use Authorization that was already in place, the only viable reason for rushing it is for the sake of pushing more mandates. Joe Biden called for businesses to do exactly that today. Business owners who were concerned about potential lawsuits for requiring injection of a drug that wasn’t FDA-approved can now move forward with their desires.

The second reason applies only to the vaccinated. Considering proper safety studies take years to complete, it is impossible for the FDA to have actually approved this drug based on science. As Dr. Singleton noted, history has shown us that connections between adverse reactions and various drugs can avoid detection for a long time, much longer than the four months the FDA “invested” into studying the Pfizer shots.

This should tell us that they are concerned about what will be discovered… or perhaps they already know. One does not have to wear a tinfoil hat to question the motives of an “approval” that could not have possibly come through due diligence. Again, there is no practical value to the approval. People 12-years-old and up were all allowed to get vaccinated through the EUA. Now, the approval applies to those 16-years-old and up while the EUA still applies to 12-15-year-olds.

It’s all about optics. It’s all about a narrative. It’s all about an agenda. What that agenda is should concern the vaccinated greatly.

The third reason applies to everyone, vaccinated or not. Our government is playing fast and loose with the facts. As Dr. Singleton said, they changed the categorization of cases based solely on the presence of the vaccine. This is extraordinarily nefarious prima facie as it was clearly designed to drive down “case” numbers to give false credit to the vaccines. This is undeniable; even the biggest pro-vaccine advocates must acknowledge that the government is torturing the math to make it say what they want it to say.

There is no scenario in which the lies and coverups perpetrated by our own government should be acceptable to any freedom-loving American. Vaccinated or unvaccinated, you should be concerned. Pro-freedom or pro-mandate, you should be offended. However you classify yourself, you cannot dismiss the unambiguous fact that our own government is lying to us and using their proxies in mainstream media, Big Tech, and academia to gaslight us about it all.

Time is running out for freedom in America. The powers-that-be are bent on ushering us headlong into The Great Reset regardless of how many victims fall along the way. Pray for this nation. Fight for this nation. The end may be near, but until it comes we must do what we can to make things right.

https://noqreport.com/2021/08/23/155000-...ding-this-fact/

From your liberal site: Bloomberg

Delta Variant
The Vaccinated Are Worried and Scientists Don’t Have Answers

By Kristen V Brown and Rebecca Torrence
August 21, 2021, 4:00 AM CDT Updated on August 22, 2021, 9:31 AM CDT
Anecdotes signal surprising number of infections in vaccinated
Officials must formulate plans despite a dearth of hard data

Sign up here for our daily coronavirus newsletter on what you need to know

Anecdotes tell us what the data can’t: Vaccinated people appear to be getting the coronavirus at a surprisingly high rate. But exactly how often isn’t clear, nor is it certain how likely they are to spread the virus to others.

Though it is evident vaccination still provides powerful protection against the virus, there’s growing concern that vaccinated people may be more vulnerable to serious illness than previously thought.

There’s a dearth of scientific studies with concrete answers, leaving public policy makers and corporate executives to formulate plans based on fragmented information. While some are renewing mask mandates or delaying office reopenings, others cite the lack of clarity to justify staying the course. It can all feel like a mess.

“We have to be humble about what we do know and what we don’t know,” said Tom Frieden, a former director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the head of the nonprofit Resolve to Save Lives. “There are a few things we can say definitively. One is that this is a hard question to address.”

Absent clear public health messaging, vaccinated people are left confused about how to protect themselves. Just how vulnerable they are is a key variable not just for public health officials trying to figure out, say, when booster shots might be needed, but also to inform decisions about whether to roll back reopenings amid a new wave of the virus. On a smaller scale, the unknowns have left music lovers unsure if it’s OK to see a concert and prompted a fresh round of hang-wringing among parents pondering what school is going to look like.

In lieu of answers, what has emerged is a host of case studies providing somewhat different pictures of breakthrough infections. Variables including when the surveys were conducted, whether the delta variant was present, how much of the population was vaccinated and even what the weather was like at the time make it hard to compare results and suss out patterns. It’s difficult to know which data might ultimately carry more heft.

“It’s quite clear that we have more breakthroughs now,” said Monica Gandhi, an infectious disease expert at the University of California, San Francisco. “We all know someone who has had one. But we don’t have great clinical data.”

One of the best known outbreaks among vaccinated people occurred in the small beach town of Provincetown, Massachusetts, as thousands of vaccinated and unvaccinated alike gathered on dance floors and at house parties over the Fourth of July weekend to celebrate the holiday -- and what seemed like a turning point in the pandemic. About three-fourths of the 469 infections were among vaccinated people.

Read more: Are Covid Shots Working? What the Real World Tells Us

Authors of a CDC case study said this might mean that they were just as likely to transmit Covid-19 as the unvaccinated. Even so, they cautioned, as more people are vaccinated, it’s natural that they would also account for a larger share of Covid-19 infections and this one study was not sufficient to draw any conclusions. The incident prompted the CDC to reverse a recommendation it had issued just a few weeks earlier and once again urge the vaccinated to mask up in certain settings.

Still, the particular details of that cluster of cases may have made that outbreak especially bad, according to Gandhi.

“The rate of mild symptomatic outbreaks in this population was higher because of a lot of indoor activity (including intimacy), rain that weekend, not much outside time and mixture of people with different vaccination status,” she said in an email.

A newly released, far larger CDC case study of infections in New York state, meanwhile, found that the number of breakthrough infections has steadily ticked up since May, accounting for almost 4% of cases by mid-July. Those researchers cautioned that factors such as easing public health restrictions and the rise of the highly contagious delta variant might impact the results.

Yet another CDC case study, in Colorado, found that the breakthrough infection rate in one county, Mesa, was significantly higher than the rest of the state, at 7% versus about 5%. The report suggested it was perhaps because the delta variant was circulating more widely there, but also noted the ages of patients in Mesa and the lower vaccination rate may have played a role.

Research out of Israel seems to back the idea that protection from severe disease wanes in the months after inoculation, and more recently, that breakthrough cases may eventually lead to an uptick in hospitalizations. The information is preliminary and severe breakthrough cases are still rare, but it bolsters the case that some people will need booster shots in coming months.

Case studies and data from some states in the U.S. have similarly shown an increase in breakthrough cases over time. But with the delta variant also on the rise, it’s difficult to tell whether waning immunity to any type of coronavirus infection is to blame, or if the vaccinations are particularly ineffective against the delta variant. It could be both, of course. Changing behavior among vaccinated people could be a factor, too, as they return to social gatherings and travel and dining indoors.

All that said, some facts are well established at this point. Vaccinated people infected with the virus are much less likely to need to go to the hospital, much less likely to need intubation and much less likely to die from the illness. There’s no doubt that vaccines provide significant protection. But a large proportion of the nation -- almost 30% of U.S. adults -- have not been vaccinated, a fact that has conspired with the highly contagious delta variant to push the country into a new wave of outbreaks.

“The big picture here is that the vaccines are working and the reason for the spike in the U.S. is we have too little vaccine uptake,” Frieden said.

To a certain extent, breakthrough cases of any virus are expected. In clinical trials, no Covid vaccine was 100% effective -- even the best vaccines never are. The more the virus is in circulation, the greater the risk of breakthrough cases. It’s also common for some aspects of viral immunity to naturally wane over time.

For the time being, there are simply more questions than answers. Are breakthrough infections ticking up because of the delta variant, waning immunity or a return to normal life? Are vaccinated people more vulnerable to severe illness than previously thought? Just how common are breakthrough infections? It’s anyone’s guess.

“It is generally the case that we have to make public health decisions based on imperfect data,” Frieden said. “But there is just a lot we don’t know.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...-for-vaccinated

Thank you so very much for your tireless efforts to save us all. This herculean humanitarian effort of yours deserves the attention it's due. After CoVid takes your unvaxed azz, we'll sing slow songs, and erect a monument in your honor for being the prophet we chose to ignore. I wonder: how long it will stand before some radical left pro-vax mob wearing official Antifa badges and arm bands swarm your likeness and take it down? I'll be generous, and give it 2-3 weeks. That's probably still long enough for the pigeons to find you, and add their (appropriate) expressions of praise. Pray that someone is kind enough to place a hat on your effigy.


Besides- we all know that your one of the vaxxed trolls, anyway. Anything for a little attention.

Tonight, I was happy to oblige.
You're welcome.

Yes I'm skeptical about the Covid vaccines, but one day I may still get vaccinated...just not right now.

Ivermectin is not used just for livestock. Humans also.

https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-1122/ivermectin-oral/details

I trust the Truth. You should learn to do the same thing.

" people who take the vaccine will end up dead and sterile"

Yeah, kind of works like that, not many dead people out there actively procreating.

Do you read your own articles?

I'd blame it on Spell Check but Dawgtalkers doesn't have that feature... so it's all on me

I was just pulling your chain.

Thank you 3rd. I was about to post on this.

I am not being a smartass when I ask this, but how many versions of ivermectin are there?

Israeli scientist

Sheba MC


My post isn’t about its usage. Why I am posting this: is the media thing. I’m seeing articles and tv reports with the horse drug in the title. I’ve heard people verbally converse in person and also on this site about the horse drug.

But this article from Israel has “ Ivermectin, a drug used to fight parasites in third-world countries, could help reduce the length of infection for people”

And

“Over the years, it has been used for other indications, including scabies and head lice. Moreover, in the last decade, several clinical studies have started to show its antiviral activity against viruses ranging from HIV and the flu to Zika and West Nile.”


I am not saying what’s right or wrong about the drug or virus. My point is these American articles with Horse drug in them when other countries are using it for human use. I get this might be the main use in the USA.

As I said, I could be incorrect if there are different versions of this drug. Please read the article as I just cut the pieces out about human usage.

And please correct me if I am wrong

Hold your thanks, as sarcastic as they may be.

That VAERS database is known to overreport adverse events. Someone that got the shot and then died in a car accident on the way home goes into that database. This topic was already addressed.

I think my biggest question is why are people using a drug like that, which may or may not help with COVID, while resisting taking an FDA approved vaccine, which was directly developed for the purposes of combating COVID?

Are there actually legitimate doctors (MDs, not PhDs) out there who are saying "don't take the vaccine, take the drug"?

If someone is doing both, I guess that is a whole other dynamic.

yep.

I'd heard that. I've also heard that it takes a fair amount of number crunching and trained sleuthing to parse out the actual real numbers that are there.

There are contraindications (or just warnings?) for the vaccines. People that are allergic to any ingredient in the vaccine should not get the vaccine. I was expecting to see additional warnings (at least) come along with full approval given the couple side effects we saw rising to the top (there was the heart-related issue that couple happen shortly after injection, and then there was the blood clots, but that was with JnJ and AZ).

Then humans aren't doing a very good job at it....

Poison control calls spike as people take livestock dewormer to treat COVID-19

https://www.abc12.com/2021/08/20/poison-...treat-covid-19/

I can’t answer for this specific drug but I can answer in general. Often times veterinary and human meds are the same. Then there are times when the active ingredient is the same but the carriers and fillers can be very different. Human livers and kidneys are different than dog/cat/animal livers and kidneys. Hence grapes kill dogs via kidney failure. Humans can eat them without issue. So a manufacturer will adjust the carriers and fillers for better, safer, absorption for animals or humans.
Long story short… Do not take veterinarian medications. Do not give human meds to animals. (Unless told it’s safe by you pet’s vet… such as Benadryl is dog safe… etc)

I'm just going to play devil's advocate for a minute... Everybody (not necessarily you) seems all up in arms over these fringe stories: "Man takes livestock dewormer to combat Covid". Built into every story are vague numbers that paint a picture as to how "widespread" this situation is.

Mississippi says they've received "several calls"... what does that mean? Four? Twenty? And then the real question (in my mind)... Who cares??


And that brings me to the real point of this post:

I think the media has us way too focused on the "fringe" when a battle against the fringe can't be won anyway... for several reasons:

Some people are stupid.
Some people are misinformed.
Some people are "dead-set against" for political reasons.
Some people are only concerned for themselves: "I'm young and healthy".
Some people wear it as a badge of courage: "I ain't afraid of no Covid!"
Some people have health concerns (legitimate or not) that make them shy away from the vaccine.
MANY people have already had Covid, and there are no "facts" that dictate a vaccine is more effective than natural immunity.

With most of these groups, we aren't going to breech the b.s., so what's the point in trying to "shame" people into a decision?

What we're really fighting (if we quit trying to fight a battle we can't win), is vaccine hesitancy, and getting everybody that is hesitant on board. I feel like the recent (and hopefully, additional forthcoming) FDA approval(s) will help.

There are also a lot of people that have been comfortable in their "bubble" and are getting vaccinated as the world moves forward. I've seen some of these cases first-hand. A friend that got a new gig and is traveling. A relative that has returned to work and spends time around "strangers" again. They've both been vaccinated over the last week.

The other issue is the fact that variants are piercing the vaccination wall, which helps confirm the bias of many that are not vaccinated... "Why should I get jabbed if the dang thing does no good anyway?"

The US surpassed the 70% mark for first shots... We're not going to do a whole lot better than that anyway. That's just the way things will probably play out. But make no mistake, playing the whole "us and them" game, shaming those who won't get vaccinated, spinning politics into the conversation at every turn, is NOT going to make someone jump in line anyway. Threatening people, telling corps to mandate vaccination, will just open a whole new can of worms that will do little to accelerate the move to "herd" (as if a distinct timetable to herd is even possible with variants and vaccines that won't shield against them).

It all comes down to what it always comes down to in this world... Take care of you and yours and forget about the rest.

/rambling rant

That's a very fair post. Previously, I had said that it's my hope that a large % of the folks that still weren't vaccinated were hesitant and not in the over-my-dead-body group. In seeing the vaccine counterpoints morph into more obstinate and ridiculous anti-vax tropes is making me frustrated.

Thanks for the response Port. I do understand your explanation. What I am questioning is now people/media/whoever running around talking about or even degrading others about the horse drug. When in reality, this drug is used on humans for various reasons.

First, if it is the same drug that is used on animals and humans then why label it horse drug…or animal drug

Second, what’s the reasoning for this labeling if it’s used for both?
- so goofballs don’t go popping pills, when they know nothing about the drug and end up killing themselves?
- is big pharma or whoever trying to hide it, if used correctly?
- because it’s not the same?

I really don’t know. Just bringing something up that’s related to the subject and different then get the vaccine/don’t get the vaccine thing. 🤷🏽‍♂️

Sean Brooks, from Oxford Ohio. He is not a medical doctor. He has an online PhD from Walden University. He still lives with his parents.

You need your head examined.

February 11, 2021 NIH was actively researching the use of Ivermectin as a COVID treatment with mixed results.


Honest opinion, largely it's to make those who take it look bad since most of them got the idea from Fox News. they are probably taking either the wrong one or taking it incorrectly without doctors advice.. so shame on them.. this is just like the hydroxychloroquine example from before.. conservatives touted it even as it was being studied around the world by various agencies with mixed results.. but the media and the left made it out to be the dumbest thing anybody could do... because conservatives were endorsing it.

Make no mistake, if Fox News had endorsed the Moderno vaccine many months ago and conservatives had rushed out to get it, the media would have called them idiots for not getting the Pfizer... that's how they roll.

To your point... it's taking an already ridiculous situation and casting it in an even more ridiculous light. You have a vaccine that was purpose-built to be a primary weapon in the fight against the pandemic. Yes, it was rushed, but now we're at a point where the Pfizer vaccine has 'checked all the boxes' so to speak, and did so under unprecedented scrutiny from the armchair doctors while it was used/studied during EUA. Now that it has full approval things should be good, right?

Not for some. They'd rather shun the vaccine and are looking at a drug designed for an entirely different purpose and even go so far as to point to dubious-at-best information as proof.

[quote=FATE

MANY people have already had Covid, and there are no "facts" that dictate a vaccine is more effective than natural immunity.
[/quote]

That is not a true statement.

People who have had covid-19 infection are twice as likely to have a breakthrough infection than someone who was vaccinated.

While I'm certainly not dismissing what you're saying, I can tell you the main reason for disputing disinformation concerning the vaccines.

If disinformation is never challenged, it opens the door for more and more people to buy into such disinformation. When you allow disinformation to stand on its own without dispute, people will soon begin to wonder, "Well nobody is disputing this information. If it weren't true we would certainly be hearing about it."

So I feel people must stand up against disinformation. Not for the people already convinced of the misinformation or hell bent on not getting the vaccine. But for the millions that see this disinformation that are still on the fence of whether to get the vaccine or not.

If we can keep more people from crawling down that rabbit hole it is well worth the effort. And another thing you mentioned that I certainly have an issue with.



While the vast majority of the time I would certainly agree with you, I see this as a different situation. I mean if you're talking about cancer, we would certainly agree. Someone with cancer doesn't want to get chemo treatments? Sure, I would agree with you. Because their decision only impacts them and their immediate family. I'm not one to get into my neighbors business or decisions. Right up the point that decision can create great harm to those outside of their family. At that juncture I draw a line.

But this doesn't work like that. While it's true that those who are vaccinated have a very low risk of hospitalization or death if infected, it's still a very real possibility. There are over 7% of the population with autoimmune deficiency which the vaccine has little impact in protecting. So when they are making a decision that impacts those outside their family, standing up against the decision not to get vaccinated is a part of taking care of your own.

So when a persons decision creates a real threat to those who surround them, you can't really forget about the rest. Because their decision has a real possibility in creating a negative impact for the rest.

And as far as shaming them? I think that's a matter of perception. I don't think it's meant to shame them per say. I think it's more a combination of two other overriding factors.

1. People are fed up with watching our hospitals being over run by Covid cases because so many people refuse to get vaccinated. We are up to over 1000 American deaths a day AGAIN because people are not getting vaccinated. We are once again seeing overflow locations being set up outside of hospitals due to the overwhelming spread of Covid. And there is simple choice that can e made to avoid all of this. I would actually think it would be easy to see why the frustration level would be so high. It causes people to lash out and I think it that's a very understandable reaction.

2. It has real world implications when you allow disinformation to go unchecked. As I have stated above, their decision has an impact of those who surround them. Maybe if they take it as being shamed, there's something to be ashamed of.

Actually that's not how it works at all. You ether believe the BS FOX News and trump were spouting or you believe science. Some sources were spouting it as an answer while science doubted it strongly and evidence had shown it was not any sort of proven help in the treatment of Covid. How did that work out BTW?

First, I'll tell you that I watch these studies pretty intently, so much so that I will just simply say your statement is FALSE.

However, I would love to see a source for that statement.

Ivermectin comes as a tablet for human use with a 3 mg and 6 mg strength tablet
Dosing is weight based but for most things dosing is 200 mcg/kg
A 100 kg person weighs 220#
So a 220# individual would get a 20 mg dose
There are to many treatment regimens to list them all but most are either a single dose or repeat after 1 week

Equine ivermectin comes as a liquid at 10mg/ml or as a paste at 136 mg/syringe.
I don't know what dose a horse would get.


The issue with ivermectin in covid treatment are:

What dose? How many mg and how often do you take it? One time dose? Daily?
And what are the potential side effects?

Ivermectin does have some activity against covid in the lab. Not disputed.
Issue is that the concentrations needed to have any affect on covid is almost 100x the concentrations we get from standard dosing regimens in humans.

Do we increase the "safe" dose by 100 fold?
The "safe" dose frequently causes tachycardia, hypotension, rashes ,severe pruritus, fever, swollen lymph nodes, dizziness, severe nausea and vomiting, liver toxicity and the occasional seizure. Overdosing can result in coma.

Additionally, dosing and absorption do not necessarily have a linear relationship so it may take more than 100x the standard dose. But for this argument, let's assume that the relationship is linear.

Further complicating the dosing is that current dosing recommendations are based off taking the medication on an empty stomach. If you take it with a meal you can have up to 2.5x the amount of medication absorbed (and you know not everyone is going to pay attention to and follow those directions). So now, if you take 100x the dose and get 2.5x the amount absorbed then you are getting 250x the recommended dose.

I can tell you that the vaccine will add even greater protection to those who have already contracted the virus. And I'm guessing most of those who have have been hospitalized and thought death was a distinct possibility would be happy to have that extra protection.

Just gotta say it's pretty weird that the people who call everybody else sheep for getting the vaccine are taking livestock medication.

It's also hilarious that they call those who get the vaccine or wear a mask as "living on fear" while they keep having a tantrum over taking a vaccine that over 363 million doses have been administered to Americans.

It's not hard to see who's really being fearful here.

I know if I get Covid and have to be hospitalized I would ask my doctor to prescribe that to me to help me get better and hopefully it would help.

Wouldn't you rather do what you can to prevent yourself from getting COVID? Especially since the vaccine has waaaay more data behind it than anything a doc would give you once you've been hospitalized?

devil's advocate here, you're saying a vaccine thats been out for 6 months has more data than drugs that have been around for decades? Theres effective drugs against covid that have been used for other things safely for years. Looking at the average time it takes a vaccine to be approved normally being 15+ years on average and a vaccine thats been approved in 6 months amid huge political controversy. I get both sides.. I'm not anti-vax for sure and I've had many immunizations including anthrax. I won't be getting this vaccine until I see longer term studies. I get everyone is scared right now and the media and politicians havent done anyone good. I think it comes down to if you feel taking a experimental drug/vaccine gives you the best protection, then thats your decision, but forcing people to take it is just wrong. Especially when its been proven vaccines do nothing to reduce the viral load of COVID. I just got over Covid a couple weeks ago. So i'm good for a bit. But the more dangerous issue right now is violation of rights. Putting anything in your body should always be a personal decision.

It really shouldn't surprise you. I mean on the one hand you have something you "hope might save your life" if the situation arises based on inconclusive evidence. On the other hand you have a vaccine that has been proven to be very effective in helping prevent you from being hospitalized or dying from Covid in the first place with over 171 million Americans fully vaccinated to base that on.

I can understand how the choice between the two would be complicated. Can't you?

All this debate with trolls and Qs about the vaccine is moot anyway... come this fall/winter the Delta variant will sort all of this for us.

“I don’t want to frighten you,” Israel’s COVID czar Dr. Salman Zarka told parliament this week. “But… unfortunately, the numbers don’t lie.”


JERUSALEM—The massive surge of COVID-19 infections in Israel, one of the most vaccinated countries on earth, is pointing to a complicated path ahead for America.

In June, there were several days with zero new COVID infections in Israel. The country launched its national vaccination campaign in December last year and has one of the highest vaccination rates in the world, with 80 percent of citizens above the age of 12 fully inoculated. COVID, most Israelis thought, had been defeated. All restrictions were lifted and Israelis went back to crowded partying and praying in mask-free venues.

Fast forward two months later: Israel reported 9,831 new diagnosed cases on Tuesday, a hairbreadth away from the worst daily figure ever recorded in the country—10,000—at the peak of the third wave. More than 350 people have died of the disease in the first three weeks of August. In a Sunday press conference, the directors of seven public hospitals announced that they could no longer admit any coronavirus patients. With 670 COVID-19 patients requiring critical care, their wards are overflowing and staff are at breaking point.

“I don’t want to frighten you,” coronavirus czar Dr. Salman Zarka told the Israeli parliament this week. “But this is the data. Unfortunately, the numbers don’t lie.”

What happened?

The complex and sobering truth is that no single policy or event brought Israel to this crisis, Hagai Levine, a Hebrew University of Jerusalem professor of epidemiology, told The Daily Beast. A deadly set of circumstances came together to put Israel on the precipice, most of which can be summed up as: “We are still in the midst of a pandemic, and there is no silver bullet.”

“All the vectors have influenced the rise in morbidity,” he said.

But the principal causes of Israel’s current predicament are the dominance of the extremely infectious Delta variant, which was carried into the country by Israelis returning from foreign vacations during the weeks in which Israel dropped all restrictive measures—along with the worrisome decrease in vaccine efficacy after about six months.

Israel vaccinated its population almost exclusively with the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, which received full FDA approval on Monday and remains the gold standard for the prevention of severe illness due to the coronavirus.

But in early July, with citizens over the age of 60 almost completely vaccinated, Israeli scientists began observing a worrisome rise in infections—if not in severe illness and death—among the double-vaccinated.

Fully vaccinated people with weakened immune systems appeared particularly vulnerable to the aggressive Delta variant.

By mid-July, Sheba Hospital Professor Galia Rahav began to experiment with booster shots for oncology patients, transplant patients, and the hospital’s own staff. A group of 70 elderly vaccinated Israelis with transplanted kidneys were the first to receive a third dose.

The success of Rahav’s trials in boosting immunity at about the sixth-month mark contributed to the Centers for Disease Control decision, announced last week, to begin offering booster shots to Americans in September.

In order to keep severe illness and the number of COVID deaths down, and avoiding a fourth national lockdown, Israel has embarked on an aggressive effort to provide all adults with boosters in a matter of weeks.

As of this week, all Israelis over 30 will be eligible to receive booster shots. By the end of the month, they are expected to be universally available to anyone over the age of 12 who received their second vaccine five months or more ago.

Israel will then reconfigure its Green Passports, granting them only to the triple-vaccinated, and limiting their validity to six months. In anticipation of this change, the number of unvaccinated Israelis getting their first shots has tripled since the beginning of August.

The World Health Organization has asked wealthy countries to halt all third vaccines for a period of two months, hoping that a moratorium will allow poorer countries, where few citizens have received even a first inoculation, to catch up. The United States rejected the call and Israel has ignored it.

Asked what has brought Israel to peak transmission even as the country has already provided third doses of vaccines to 1.5 million citizens, Rahav, who has become one of the best known faces of Israel’s public health messaging, sighed, saying, “I think we’re dealing with a very nasty virus. This is the main problem—and we’re learning it the hard way.”

“It is a combination of waning immunity, so that inoculated people get reinfected, and at the same time the very transmissible Delta variant,” Rahav said, adding that Israelis lacked the discipline to revert to mask usage as the numbers began rising. “But it is not an Israeli problem,” she added. “It is everywhere.”

Her conclusion should give pause to American authorities, who face school reopenings as, at best, only 50 percent of eligible adults have been fully vaccinated.

Unlike New Zealand, which aims for zero community transmission of the coronavirus, and imposes lockdowns when even a single positive case is identified, Israeli authorities have opted for a model they are calling “living with corona.”

“Israel really is a pioneer,” Levine, the former chairman of the nation’s Association of Public Health Physicians, said, referring to the groundbreaking vaccination campaign and the country’s efforts, currently underway, to fully reopen schools on Sept. 1 while keeping in place measures aimed at preventing school-driven outbreaks, such as the one that closed the nation down last summer.

“We’ve achieved a plan that is not hermetic,” Zarka, the coronavirus czar, told a local radio station. “Clearly there will be cases of illness at schools… [but] shutting oneself up at home and closing the school system isn’t exactly the solution.”

He has asked the government to impose stricter limitations on the size of cultural and sports events until the incidence of the coronavirus declines.

“Each country has to assess its own epidemiology,” Levine said, “its culture, its public health, the public’s confidence in its health authorities.” Referring to New Zealand, he added that “we can all learn from other countries, but you can’t copy paste other countries’ methods.”

Israel was forced to make quick decisions and in a time of great uncertainty. Levine was among the public health officials who expressed doubts about the wisdom of Israel’s untested move towards nationwide booster vaccination, but he told The Daily Beast that the latest statistics, showing that only 0.2 of the first 1.1 million recipients of the third jab were infected with the coronavirus, proved it had been a “brave decision.”

The last week has shown a significant reduction in morbidity among triple-vaccinated Israelis over the age of 70—the first group to receive the booster.

Like the other experts, Rahav supports schools reopening, but noted that thanks to upcoming Jewish holidays, which will close schools in about 80 percent of the country, Israel will once again be uniquely positioned to serve as a huge laboratory.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/ultra-vaccinated-israels-debacle-is-a-dire-warning-to-america

Vaccinated people MIGHT survive. The non-vaccinated will be dying in droves. We shouldn't hate or be mad at anyone for not getting vaccinated, yet I can't help but feel that the impending covid disaster of this Fall/Winter could be mostly negated with proper vaccination. Looks like Q is going to win and those 72 incels will get to share a virgin in heaven.