DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Covid Fright Night Part 4

For those of us without pre-existing medical conditions we have over a 99% chance of not dying from the virus if we catch it, correct? That's pretty good odds.

I'm not anti-vax but the Covid vaccinations are relatively new, we still don't know the possible long-term effects from getting them. (And again, I might get vaccinated one day, I'm just hesitant to.)

I know the side effects are supposed to be rare, but bad reactions can happen. My cousin's aunt got the J & J vaccination and passed away from blood clots 2 or 3 days later.

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Vaccine reactions, from wheelchair to death…

https://citizenfreepress.com/column-3/five-cases-of-vaccine-reactions-from-wheelchair-to-death/

You're basing your assertions on a vaccine that has been administered over over 363 million times to Americans. A total of over 171 million Americans fully vaccinated. That is a larger body if evidence to base its safety on than almost any drug the FDA has ever approved.

Secondly, the Covid vaccine is based on over a decades worth of research. The concept isn't "new".

How a decade of coronavirus research paved way for COVID-19 vaccines

https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care...vid-19-vaccines



Until and up until the point "your decision" risks the health and safety of those around you. Then "your decision" includes you making health choices for others. At that point it isn't "your decision" to make.

Covid-19 is also very new -- and we don't know anything about the long term implications of it either?

Vaccines are completely cleared from your system within a few days. Only the immune response that they trigger remains -- and that immune response is almost identical to the immune response that is produced when you get Covid (for example - antibody tests come back positive if you have had Covid OR if you have been vaccinated).



I'm sorry to hear that -- Pfizer and Moderna have no association with blood clots (with over two billion doses provided world-wide). Blood clots are a common symptom of Covid also (blood clots associated with Covid have caused many more deaths than blood clots associated with J&J).

First, that's a good find. I keep my ear to the ground and had not seen this yet, although it's only a couple weeks old. However, I see that it is been parroted in numerous articles on the web with the same, unscientific, misleading phrase of "twice as likely". And just so we're clear, nothing else I say is a criticism of you, you're just posting what you read -- from what should be a trusted source.

This is more of an observational study. I'm not poo-pooing it, it points to a simple fact: COVID-19 vaccines offer better protection than natural immunity alone. In other words, in layman's terms, "being double protected is better than being single protected".

With that said, this type of b.s. is just as irresponsible as the other trash being sold as science. The CDC sidesteps this with one simple word: MAY. "Vaccination May Cut Risk of COVID Reinfection in Half". But then their own director just forges ahead and leaves out the "may" in her statement.

The state of Kentucky handpicks 247 confirmed cases of reinfection (confirmed means they were TESTED) and compares them with people of the same age and sex in a database? People who may or may not even have been tested a second time?? And for the people that tested positive a second time, there is no evidence they have been reinfected as there was no genome sequencing done. In other words, a second positive test could be from prolonged viral shedding or failure to clear the initial viral infection. Now sure, some may call that "nitpicking", but that's just another indication that this is less "science" and more "observation".

Which is fine... and there is no denying there is something there. But the CDC selling it as "twice is likely" is irresponsible and only substantiates suspicions that will not go away anytime soon as long as this (from the people that did the controlled study):



Turns into this (from the CDC):



For anyone that watches this stuff, the next eye-rolling moment comes when the CDC basically dismisses previous studies by saying "few real world epidemiologic studies exist to support the benefit of vaccination for previously infected individuals."... Rather than pointing to, or at least acknowledging, the two largest (thousands of people) cohort studies which already exist and are of a higher level of evidence. Studies that show infected people have proven to have robust immune systems, with no evidence of their immunity trailing off, for seven month or more after infection. Studies of over 50,000 people, being tested constantly, ongoing for the better part of a year.

It doesn't take a genius to know that more trust should be given to this...

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(21)00141-3/fulltext
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034545

...than to 243 hand-picked people, arbitrarily compared to others of the same sex and age, with zero testing, in a "study" from Kentucky.

Again, as with everything Covid, if it doesn't fit the narrative -- just sweep it under the rug... That's our CDC and that's our politics.

It's odd how 171 million people being fully vaccinated and over 90% of hospitalizations and subsequent deaths being among the unvaccinated has been turned into "politics".

I see what you're getting at, but more to the point of Jester's post above, we know relatively little about ivermectin as a treatment for COVID. It sounds like there's data that suggests it's theoretically possible, but the dosage required and the potential side effects from that dosing are unknown, at best.

But that merely points to my main point. There are some in this very thread that don't want to get the vaccine due to it being rushed through development and FDA review (which I can sincerely understand), but then turn around and say that if they get COVID and have to be hospitalized, then they'd want the doc to use whatever treatments there are to help get back on their feet (which makes zero sense considering those treatments have far less data behind them than the vaccine does).

I can't wrap my head around the mental gymnastics needed to not be ok with the vaccine but then be ok with off-label treatments.

Why? In the Trump era, everything from cat memes to death have been politicized.

He makes a fair point, though. Looking like you're playing with wording to make something sound like it's not doesn't inspire confidence.

I do think there has been a lack of leadership and consistency from where it's been needed most regarding dealing with the pandemic. Obviously, better messaging won't affect the "BUT BELLS PALSEY STERILITY NANO SEX BOTS!!!!!!!1!!!!!!2" crowd, but not everyone holds those views.

Man...that Angry Cat...such a fascist.

Yeah, any ire I have is usually targeted toward people who blatantly spread misinformation. I can empathetically understand where people come from when it comes to hesitation. Like I said, I don't agree, but I can at least empathize.

I think my biggest source of frustration is that it's like this pendulum blade with the disease being a coronavirus. It's not like smallpox or mumps. You have a lot of people doing the mask thing and getting the vaccine to deal with the novel virus. Then - if I understand it correctly - it infects people who are not immunized and then mutates. Boom, you have delta, and the blade cuts back the other way with everyone more susceptible to infection again. Next thing you know, we'll get through the delta, but then some place like Florida will have another mutation and next thing you know, we have to deal with the Sigma variant.

It would be nice if we could grab the blade so to speak, and stop it from swinging back and forth.

"since we are all going to die from covid; can we at least have a good season this year."

Scooter Magruder

Thanks Jester. I appreciate that

Ill just place this here.

my understanding is that the delta strand originated in India, not Florida in October of 2020 and has nothing to do with being vaccinated or not. It also has been the primary strain there and in Europe since December.

Bonus:
Many of the people with the delta variant first spread through people who had the vaccine in the USA.

You are correct on all counts. Every "strain of concern" as defined by the CDC have originated elsewhere.

jc

PSA MAGA - Embrace your freedoms and go in without a prophylactic of any sort MAGA Nation. Au Naturale is the best way to die.

WARNING: Covid kills stupid. You have been warned.

Honestly - while the fatalities are nothing to ignore, we have progressed tot he point where treatment is much more likely to be successful than early on... but as 05 said the other day (I think it was 05) ... hospitalization and walking out "healthy" with a $40-50K medical bill is going to ruin plenty of lives too. Not to mention long covid and the scarring CV is reported to leave behind.

sadly 70%ish of white Americans have received the covid vaccine.

For American minorities/immigrants, numbers are less than 20% of the demographic are vaccinated. Ironically, they don't trust their government.

I am not making any statements about politics here.

Wife and I went out to eat Sat. evening with another couple. Had fun. On the way home, I stopped at a hole in the wall bar - the other 3 wanted to talk some more, and have a drink or 2.

Anyone remember my friend that died of covid on Dec. 3? My mentioning it? Well, in walks his widow. My age, classmate of mine.

She sat with us. She didn't know the other couple, so I introduced them. Her husband came up - in the conversation that is - and it hit me, and us, again: This thing kills.

And, as we are seeing, even vaccinated people can get it.

Yes,, you were.. you SOB you....LOL

Take your race baiting elsewhere Troll. That wasan't the topic and if it was ....

https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19...race-ethnicity/

While White adults account for the largest share (57%) of unvaccinated adults, Black and Hispanic people remain less likely than their White counterparts to have received a vaccine, leaving them at increased risk, particularly as the variant spreads.
....

These current patterns reflect growing shares of vaccinations going to Hispanic and Black people over time. Between March 1 and August 16, the share of vaccinations going to Hispanic people increased in all states reporting data for both periods and increased for Black people in most reporting states. In a few cases, these increases were large. For example, the share of vaccinations going to Black people increased from 26% to 43% in DC and from 25% to 38% in Mississippi. Similarly, the share of vaccinations going to Hispanic people increased by at least 10 percentage points in six states, including Florida (17% to 31%), Nevada (13% to 26%), California (19% to 30%), Texas (23% to 35%), New Jersey (6% to 17%), and New York (9% to 20%).

Nothing political in anything you wrote. And vaccinated people can and do still get Covid. No one ever claimed it was bullet proof. With 170 of Million vaccinated, even before the Delta variant materialized, even small % means large numbers of people vaccinated would still get Covid.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-ne...s-have-n1275500

According to this article - it's 168,000 as of July. a rate of 0.08%. Of those the deaths 1,400 represents less than 0.0008% .... still tragic for any single one of them. But a tiny % none the less.

Your statement is laughable.

The vaccines DO NOT WORK!

Also posted in tailgate BUCKEYES thread for those who don't come in here.

uh... thank you for furthering my point? That doc literally says exactly what I said.

Facts
1. 72% of the population has had the vaccine
2. 57% of 28% are white Americans
3. 72% of the USA is white Americans
4. 28% of the USA is a minority


Question... (according to your article and basically every study out there right now)

What is 57% of 28% of the people who are not vaccinated?


15.96% is the answer.


15.96% of white Americans(adults) are not vaccinated.

That means 84.04% of white Americans(adults) are vaccinated.

That also means give or take... more than 70% of white people who have gotten the vaccine when you factor in for white American children.

It's not race-baiting. However, it does appear to be reverse psychology used by the democratic part to get minorities to get the vaccine.

The hope appears to be that minorities don't want to be lumped in with dumb karen republican trumpers... and will go get the shot.

Florida was an example of a population where mutation could originate, but do with that hypothetical what you will to make another tangential point.

Where is the information from your second statement from?

Edit: I have no idea how I managed to screw up the quote feature there.

I actually appreciate you providing that link. Thank you. Honestly.

Note the point about it spreading during a "ferocious wave of infections"...sure makes you wonder where we might be having one of those here...

That really sucks man. I feel bad for her.

Careful with the math, buddy... not everybody likes the math.

The reason I haven’t gone into a restaurant to eat since this all started is because I’m reminded it kills all too often at work.
This honestly is not a dig at you but just a general statement… it must be nice to live daily without the constant threat and/or reminders.

My heart goes out to the widow. Hope she’s vaccinated.

She is vaccinated. She also had it at the same time her husband had it.

I am vaccinated, as is my wife. We wore masks, we still do if needed. But what we won't do is quit living our lives. Have we changed a bit? Sure. But if you aren't living life..............you aren't living. We can't afford to sit in our house, with no income, and last this thing out for.....6 months? 2 years? Longer? Something new will come along by then anyway.

We're all going to die some day. While I'm not in favor of rushing it, I'm also not afraid of it.

Many more were the unvaccinated. Over 90 percent of those in the hospital, ICU or on ventilators are unvaccinated.

I call B.S.

Your display of ignorance is a direct reflection of the your sources.

You need to attend more rally's with your people.

There is one question never asked. How many folks have had covid more than once? I’m assuming zero, but it could be a hidden figure?

Where did you get your medical degree,, Trump U?

Almost positive my son had it twice. First time the grandkids had it (confirmed) and he went down for a week but the hospital never tested him and just assumed he was positive. The second time he was tested and confirmed. He said it felt the same both times. He's vaccinated now, these were before the vaccine hit his age group.

I don't know what that number is but I know that it is not zero. I have had patients who have had it twice. I don't know any cases of a person getting it a 3rd time.