DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Biden says US war in Afghanistan will end August 31

yea it really is different.

i really didn't understand how big this country was until i was stationed in germany.

from where i was stationed, prague, paris, amsterdam, and Zurich were all under a 5 hour drive. and each one of those cities are in countries that have their own distinct cultures and language/dialect.

an under 5 hour drive will get me from cleveland to....cincinnati. dont get me started on the longer road trips.

and everybody has their own feelings on Americans abroad. and it isn't as positive as some people think.

My brother, on his way to Thailand, had a long layover in Qatar so he had an opportunity to checkout some of the city. He said, extremely clean, very high-end luxury spots. Lots of money there. Never felt unsafe. He'd like to do a vacation there.

Also, he flew Qatar airlines in business class from NYC. Said best flying experience ever. Delta, American, United couldn't hold a candle to that airline.

Wife and I would like to checkout UAE someday as well. Likely, when we're empty nesters, so we have some time yet.

Nope. Not interested in that either.

Seriously Swish, it might be due to age and health, but I would struggle too with deciding on a trip to Poland, where I have friends and it's mostly safe.

And it's definitely not a racial safety mental thing because I would go to most of the western island states/countries, I would go to most if not all of the European countries because I'm interested in seeing some of them. Australia, North America, Europe, a few places in South America and Asia would be on my go list if health and money are not an issue.

No I absolutely have no desire to visit Dubai. But maybe, subconsciously, my feelings on travel are based on where people hate Americans. Honestly, I might have gone to any of those places when I was younger and healthier, so that might be playing into it too.

I am not all that interested in travel anymore. No doubt we will, but it will be very selective outside of North America. I mean very selective.

Interesting perspective here. I imagine Swish would most likely agree.

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Lucas Kunce
Mon, August 23, 2021, 5:00 AM
What we are seeing in Afghanistan right now shouldn’t shock you. It only seems that way because our institutions are steeped in systematic dishonesty. It doesn’t require a dissertation to explain what you’re seeing. Just two sentences.

One: For 20 years, politicians, elites and D.C. military leaders lied to us about Afghanistan.

Two: What happened last week was inevitable, and anyone saying differently is still lying to you.

I know because I was there. Twice. On special operations task forces. I learned Pashto as a U.S. Marine captain and spoke to everyone I could there: everyday people, elites, allies and yes, even the Taliban.

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The truth is that the Afghan National Security Forces was a jobs program for Afghans, propped up by U.S. taxpayer dollars — a military jobs program populated by nonmilitary people or “paper” forces (that didn’t really exist) and a bevy of elites grabbing what they could when they could.

You probably didn’t know that. That’s the point.

And it wasn’t just in Afghanistan. They also lied about Iraq.

I led a team of Marines training Iraqi security forces to defend their country. When I arrived I received a “stoplight” chart on their supposed capabilities in dozens of missions and responsibilities. Green meant they were good. Yellow was needed improvement; red said they couldn’t do it at all.

I was delighted to see how far along they were on paper — until I actually began working with them. I attempted to adjust the charts to reflect reality and was quickly shut down. The ratings could not go down. That was the deal. It was the kind of lie that kept the war going.

So when people ask me if we made the right call getting out of Afghanistan in 2021, I answer truthfully: Absolutely not. The right call was getting out in 2002. 2003. Every year we didn’t get out was another year the Taliban used to refine their skills and tactics against us — the best fighting force in the world. After two decades, $2 trillion and nearly 2,500 American lives lost, 2021 was way too late to make the right call.

You’d think when it all came crumbling down around them, they’d accept the truth. Think again.

War-hungry hawks are suggesting our soldiers weren’t in harm’s way. Well, when I was there, two incredible Marines in my unit were killed.

Elitist hacks are even blaming the American people for what happened this week. The same American people that they spent years lying to about Afghanistan. Are you kidding me?

We deserve better. Instead of politicians spending $6.4 trillion to “nation build” in the Middle East, we should start nation building right here at home.

I can’t believe that would be a controversial proposal, but already in Washington, we see some of the same architects of these Middle Eastern disasters balking at the idea of investing a fraction of that amount to build up our own country.

The lies about Afghanistan matter not just because of the money spent or the lives lost, but because they are representative of a systematic dishonesty that is destroying our country from the inside out.

Remember when they told us the economy was back? Another lie.

Our state of Missouri was home to the worst economic recovery from the Great Recession in this part of the country. I see the boarded-up stores and the vacant lots — one of which used to be my family’s home. When our country’s elites were preaching about how they had solved the financial crisis and the housing market was booming, I watched the house I joined the Marine Corps out of sit on the market for two years. My dad finally got $43,000 for it. He owed $78,000.

The only way out is to level with the American people. I’ll start. With the two-sentence truth about what we are seeing in Afghanistan right now:

For 20 years, politicians, elites and D.C. military leaders lied to us about Afghanistan.

What happened last week was inevitable, and anyone saying differently is still lying to you.

Cole County native Lucas Kunce is a Marine veteran and antitrust advocate. He is a Democratic candidate for U.S. Senate.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/served-afghanistan-us-marine-twice-100000389.html

Montréal is mostly French speaking and a lot like a European city with a fantastic light rail system in the city. About a 5 hr drive for me. Also Trains go from NYC to Montreal daily. It has a definite European feel the farther northeast you travel into Canada.

It does. We have that here in this country. We just try to blanket it as 1 country, but the regional difference are striking.

You see it in the way people talk, the food customs, religion, etc.

In your city of New York, you can pretty much visit the world in a few days, going from one borough/neighborhood to another.

As far as a city with a very European feel, French in particular, New Orleans is unlike any other in this country.

That line was taken from Obama and the cons wanted nothing to do with peace in the Middle East or making America great by building up our education, healthcare, and infrastructure. Instead they collectively laid their hands on the golden orb and stuck their thumbs up their butts and did nothing. All while they had control of the House, senate, and WH. Wasted time, all of it.

i agree completely.

i actually made that argument a few years ago on this board talking about iraq and caught heat for it.

could you imagine if we spent that money on our own children here in america over iraq and afghanistan?

but spending money in the middle east is considered patriotic and spreading democracy, yet spending money on your own american people is considered communist.

6 trillion. we could've had a completely updated broadband system, fully funded education for college students here in america, discharged student loans and still have 1-2 trillion left over.

but thats socialism. cant have that.

killing middle easterns while lying about the mission while defense contractors make literally billions?

thats capitalism.

Not even close. My son lives in NYC and yeah lots of foreign speaking immigrants and tourists but it’s an all American feel. I’ve been to New Orleans many times. Another melting pot like NYC but still an all American feel. You go to Montreal or Quebec City you’ll feel like you are truly in Europe and better be prepared to be spoken to in French. The best restaurants menu’s are in French only. You have to ask for a English menu. The road signage is in French only so you better know Nord, Sud, Est, & Ost

Yes, I have been to Montreal and Quebec city a few times.

Some time back Quebec talked about leaving Canada. It is in a sense a country in a country. No doubt it is easier if you, or someone in your party speaks some French.

People don't have to speak a different language for a place to have it's own feel.

Obama had the WH, the house and the senate for his first 4 years and the WH and the senate for his last 4 years and.......

And that's why I've said from the start that the presidents of both parties share some of the responsibility.

As if we would have seen a cent of that money... DC would have spent it on other unneeded crap. 6 Trillion would never have made it to the needs of the working class.

Same crap. Absolutely.

Defense contractors have their hands in pockets all over Congress, Democrat and Republican alike. They also strategically place factories and offices in every state and across a lot of districts.

If we move allocated spending from warfighting or dragging out conflicts that we're already in, then they can pull the one-two punch of reallocating campaign contributions and/or shutting down offices or factories in a certain state or district and moving them to another. The funny thing there is that all the money they have to do this...comes from taxpayers. I would also bet the "bang for the buck" that we get on defense spending is far worse than our near-peer adversaries. All you have to do is check the SEC filings for nearly every defense contractor to look at their RoS and see that we're not getting what we pay for, when it comes to sole source weapon system spending (not based on competition).

My guess now is that the defense lobby is not seeing anymore value in Afghanistan, since all the focus now revolves around China's emerging threat. We also have a lot more foreign military sales that the contractors are focusing on, along with updating our own weapon systems.

Its' definitely a bi-partisan issue. One could argue that the Republicans are obviously more at-fault when it comes to ridiculous defense spending than the Democrats are, but you're still talking about varying degrees of shamefulness.

There are so many cool places in the US that I really want to see, that I have no desire to go thru the hassle of going overseas. Cripe, I've been to Yellowstone 4 times and there are still parts of the park I haven't seen and really want to. I love America and the National Parks system. There's nothing outside of these borders that's so much more beautiful that it's worth the time and effort to get there to see it. The older I get, the more I have to align my priorities and budget the time I have left.

I agree. I wouldn't even go overseas again except my wife has cousins living in Switzerland and northern Italy. Her mother was born in Switzerland, so we are going again. She is starting to hint a trip isn't all that far away.

I figure if we do that, just go for 3 weeks and hit all the usual spots you could name and call it a wrap on all of that.

MY wife and I had been doing all our international travel through our 30's and 40's. Mostly because...
1) You may never get a chance if you keep waiting "until your older"
2) every trip there are older folks who really struggle getting around in in many places, or can't climb to the top of the Tower of Pisa, Eiffel Tower, up the cobblestone streets to Castle Edinburgh.

We've been saving the U.S. those quicker few days to a week trips and for when we retire we plan to RV around the states for a couple years.

He got Obamacare for all and he managed to fill Bin Laden’s head with lead. What did the orange orb accomplish? A freaking tax break for the richest Americans and got half a million Americans killed with his lackadaisical handling of the covid virus. And then he gets more folks killed on Jan 6th.

Well done cons. Well done.

He sounds like a real badass, what kind of ammo did he use?


I don't care.


See, I don't think he did. I think he bungled it from start to finish but at the end of the day, the deaths per 100K people in the US isn't terribly different from that of most industrialized countries with significant urban areas and significant international travel.... Plus each country/state was basically left to its own devices on how it tabulated and collected data, so I have my doubts that data from within the US and from around the world is the least bit consistent.


Embassy's lost:
Obama/Biden - 2
Trump - 0

Which helps explain a lot.

Yeah no kidding..Murican cons living the big lie.

My only real point is that while I agree the entire strategy or lack there of in deploying the withdraw was a catastrophe, to ignore everything leading up to that point is a very narrow view of the overall situation.

80,000 people have been evacuated out of Afghanistan since July, Not a catastrophe. To ignore that is a very narrow view of the overall situation.

218,132 Americans have died from COVID-19 since President Joe Biden took office.

I see you quote the number of deaths since Biden took office a lot ... as if it means something.

I wonder if you can string a few sentences of your thoughts together and tell me this:

1. I can list literally dozens and dozens and dozens of things Trump did that downplayed the virus and how he mishandled the pandemic ... which has led to 10,000s more Americans dying than could have happened with a better response.

2. I can't name much of anything regarding Covid that Biden mishandled. . . . can you? Please be specific. Or not ...

Youre right. Biden hasnt mishandled anything. Because that would imply he attempted to handle something. He has done literally nothing other than ride Trump's vaccine coattails.

So, lets call it what it is: Biden has done nothing to protect the country from covid. He is sitting around with his thumbs up his ass while people die.

Trolls be trolling.

I disagree with your premise. But your answer sure reads like Biden hasn't mishandled anything related to Covid. Thanks for verifying. If that wasn't your answer then be specific on what he has mishandled relating to Covid. Thanks

EDIT - one link to one thing Biden did that Trump didn't. There's more ... google is your friend.

https://www.pharmacist.com/Pharmacy-News/biden-unveils-national-strategy-that-trump-resisted

But then we know #factsdontmatter

Nice response.. worthless if you wanna talk facts, but Nicely done

She makes it sound like no matter how hard the entire Biden administration has tried to get people vaccinated, a bunch of idiots refuse. Over 90% of those dying are these idiots. Even Biden can't fix stupid.

Could either you or Pit please explain to me what, exactly, this explains?

It actually speaks for itself in your own words. No further explanation is necessary. Unless of course you would like to explain it.

This speaks volumes about your debate style.

I wouldn't call throwing out some sweeping generalization that suggests strongly you don't care about the previous administration and then asking someone else to explain your quote any better in terms of debating style.

I didn't ask you to explain my quote. I asked you to explain your quote... "Which helps explain a lot."

What does it explain about me?

As I said, it's self explanatory. You do not care what Trump did or did not accomplish. Which also means that his making deals with the Taliban that set this whole thing on motion must be inconsequential. Because for better or worse it was most certainly something that was accomplished by trump.

As I said previously, when you make an open ended generalization that paints with a broad brush, it's not up to everyone else to try and interpret what it was you actually meant or didn't mean by your comment.

What I don't care about is the things like Obamacare and tax cuts and who controlled congress and other stuff that was starting to creep into the conversation and I had no desire to rehash past presidents total records in a thread about Afghanistan.

If we want to stick to the topic of Afghanistan, then let's do that.

Bush invaded, with good reason, but without a plan for what to do once we got there. No plan to know when to get back out, etc. And he gave up on Bin Laden as an objective fairly early.

Obama basically kicked the can down the road and didn't change a whole lot, though we did get Bin Laden on his watch, so good on him for that. But one of his big campaign promises in both campaigns was to end it and he made little to no progress toward that end.

Trump also didn't change much of anything. He did enter into this agreement with the Taliban, which has some decent stuff in it, from what I've read, but is totally without teeth when it comes to forcing anybody to comply. Basically he made a good faith agreement with the freaking Taliban. <SMFH>

Biden inherited this bad agreement and was put in a bad situation of either honoring the agreement and leaving or re-escalating the war. He chose to leave. Now with that said, he had 8 months to develop a strategy for that departure, and that has turned out to be a miserable failure.

So there you go.

Thanks for the explanation. Actually we agree on almost every point. There are only actually a couple of things I would like to add. And the first one isn't meant to be something I point the finger directly at Republicans for doing, but this example happens to about a Republican president.

I agree with your comments on Bush but would like to add that fighting a war against the Taliban nor nation building was ever a part of the mission statement sold to the American people. The mission we were told was to bring Al-Qaeda to its knees and get Bin Laden.

When it comes to Obama. Al-Qaeda had already been scattered and weakened. Once we captured Bin Laden we should have left Afghanistan immediately.