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Quote:
There is much we do not know especially with a guy like Fields

A lot goes into drafting a player. In addition money. Hodge was going to make $2m. Fields will not make that.

Plus Fields has been part of the team since OTA's. So he has been there and they know way more about him than we do.

Berry in the end wants the best 53 and players who they feel will develop.

You can bet this is no knee jerk reaction. They pour over the roster 365.


Nothing I really disagree with there, but you're missing the point. Berry kept "his" guy over others who did a lot more to earn a roster spot. Doesn't matter that they did their due diligence. Fields did not EARN a spot on this team. Hodge aside, (as an offensive player), I would take Day, Redwine, Gustin, and probably Elijah Lee over him.

Look, Berry has been very good overall, and I'm not gonna crucify him over LB#6, but he's not perfect. (Hooper signing looks like a massive overpay, the Takk/Clowney combo is still a big ? as far as reliability). This one just leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and I feel for the guys that actually earned the spot that was handed to him.


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I agree with what you said.

Having said that I actually trust these guys we have running things and I also know that they aren't perfect.

I take issue with letting talent go to keep something that hasn't proven anything to date.

Having said all of that, there is something to be said for setting up the roster in a way for sustained success, and we really haven't a clue about the guys they kept and how they are viewed not for just now but for what I am sure we all hope for, sustained success many of our views will be much more focused once we see all the players AB kept and how time reveals if he was right in what he did or wrong in what he did.

In the end I accept what he has done not because I have to but because I truly trust the man. Most of us get that and it sounds like you do too? We simply don't know what we don't know. Many of these guys will land on the practice squad is my bet, or even on the roster once we put some of our guys on IR.


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I'm with you BTTB. Time will tell if it works out, and this FO has earned the benefit of the doubt. But he just seems like a no-brainer for the PS. Who is signing a rookie 6th rounder who hasn't practiced yet to their 53?


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I totally get what what you are saying I really do.

However, that is par for the course. When GM's draft a guy they want that guy to be given a full chance.

Personally in regards to Fields I have little to offer.

I did not look closely at his college tape. And, since he has not played there is nothing to add.

I just have to trust Berry and what he sees in him.

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Originally Posted By: dnadawg
Quote:
There is much we do not know especially with a guy like Fields

A lot goes into drafting a player. In addition money. Hodge was going to make $2m. Fields will not make that.

Plus Fields has been part of the team since OTA's. So he has been there and they know way more about him than we do.

Berry in the end wants the best 53 and players who they feel will develop.

You can bet this is no knee jerk reaction. They pour over the roster 365.


Nothing I really disagree with there, but you're missing the point. Berry kept "his" guy over others who did a lot more to earn a roster spot. Doesn't matter that they did their due diligence. Fields did not EARN a spot on this team. Hodge aside, (as an offensive player), I would take Day, Redwine, Gustin, and probably Elijah Lee over him.

Look, Berry has been very good overall, and I'm not gonna crucify him over LB#6, but he's not perfect. (Hooper signing looks like a massive overpay, the Takk/Clowney combo is still a big ? as far as reliability). This one just leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and I feel for the guys that actually earned the spot that was handed to him.


I think with a talented squad - which we have - there is probably a lot more emphasis on identifying, keeping and developing high ceiling guys. Gone are the days when low floor, meh ceiling had a place on the fringes of the 53 man roster. With a much more solid and competent core, keeping 1 or 2 high ceiling, potential bust players is going to be viable. Shoot for the stars.


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Were we worried that Fields would get snatched up by someone before we could get him back?


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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j/c...

I won't go the MMQB route and try to figure out which player(s) was cut to the detriment of keeping Fields. However, the LB corps took a big hit when Phillips went down and I think we're trying to build some continuity into a new scheme.

Fields is a plug 'n play backup to JOK if were going to build a scheme around versatile LBs that can stay on the field regardless of situation. He has speed, range and instincts and fits into the "space" game that NFL offenses are trying to exploit.


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Originally Posted By: mgh888
Originally Posted By: dnadawg
Quote:
There is much we do not know especially with a guy like Fields

A lot goes into drafting a player. In addition money. Hodge was going to make $2m. Fields will not make that.

Plus Fields has been part of the team since OTA's. So he has been there and they know way more about him than we do.

Berry in the end wants the best 53 and players who they feel will develop.

You can bet this is no knee jerk reaction. They pour over the roster 365.


Nothing I really disagree with there, but you're missing the point. Berry kept "his" guy over others who did a lot more to earn a roster spot. Doesn't matter that they did their due diligence. Fields did not EARN a spot on this team. Hodge aside, (as an offensive player), I would take Day, Redwine, Gustin, and probably Elijah Lee over him.

Look, Berry has been very good overall, and I'm not gonna crucify him over LB#6, but he's not perfect. (Hooper signing looks like a massive overpay, the Takk/Clowney combo is still a big ? as far as reliability). This one just leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and I feel for the guys that actually earned the spot that was handed to him.


I think with a talented squad - which we have - there is probably a lot more emphasis on identifying, keeping and developing high ceiling guys. Gone are the days when low floor, meh ceiling had a place on the fringes of the 53 man roster. With a much more solid and competent core, keeping 1 or 2 high ceiling, potential bust players is going to be viable. Shoot for the stars.



I agree, but if totally true, we would have kept Hodge and cut Higgy. Higgy is at his ceiling...a average NFL receiver.

Not that I am complaining we kept Higgy. I understand why we kept him.


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We didn’t get awarded anyone on waivers.

Hodge got claimed by the Lions.

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Higgins - as a WR - is significantly more valuable than Hodge...it's not even close.

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Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
Higgins - as a WR - is significantly more valuable than Hodge...it's not even close.


We just disagree. I think if Hodge played in Higgys spot, he would do just as well, and maybe better. Not to mention Hodge was pretty darn good on special teams.

Anyway, it doesn't matter....Higgy it is...it's not like I am disappointed. I just think Hodge has more upside to his game.


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Apparently Stefanski/Berry think otherwise.


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Originally Posted By: SuperBrown
Apparently Stefanski/Berry think otherwise.


I hope that didn't take you long to figure out...lol


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McDowell can play inside and out amongst others.


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Browns re-sign DE Joe Jackson, place LB Jacob Phillips on IR.

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/bro...injured-reserve

Probably safe to say Joe Jackson and his best girl will be steppin' out tonight.

Last edited by Dave; 09/01/21 05:51 PM. Reason: Sorry, it was a gimme - I had to take it.
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Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
Higgins - as a WR - is significantly more valuable than Hodge...it's not even close.


We just disagree. I think if Hodge played in Higgys spot, he would do just as well, and maybe better. Not to mention Hodge was pretty darn good on special teams.

Anyway, it doesn't matter....Higgy it is...it's not like I am disappointed. I just think Hodge has more upside to his game.

I'm pretty indifferent to the Hodge/Higgins debate. Though Mayfield seems to have much better chemistry with Higgins. Seems clear though that we kept Felton as RB#4 but he will also serve as WR#6 on the depth chart thus filling 2 depth chart slots. Which is how we kept 10 OL, which may or may not hold as we go forward.


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Originally Posted By: bonefish

I totally get what what you are saying I really do.

However, that is par for the course. When GM's draft a guy they want that guy to be given a full chance.

Personally in regards to Fields I have little to offer.

I did not look closely at his college tape. And, since he has not played there is nothing to add.

I just have to trust Berry and what he sees in him.




I have said for years that lack of continuity hurts franchises.

When the Browns were changing front office people every other year you could count on guys being released from the previous front office regimes that were not great players but had just gotten experience and could have been contributors. Not saying we released pro bowl caliber guys, but it takes all levels of players. No team has 53 great players. Hopefully the 53 we retain are deserving by their play.

Not in any way criticizing Berry as I know he has much more knowledge than I. I don't care how it happens, I just want the tea to win consistently.

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Originally Posted By: Dave
Browns re-sign DE Joe Jackson, place LB Jacob Phillips on IR.

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/bro...injured-reserve

Probably safe to say Joe Jackson and his best girl will be steppin' out tonight.


I thought he outplayed Gustin in the preseason. I figured we would add him when he didn't show up on the practice squad.


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Originally Posted By: Dave
Browns re-sign DE Joe Jackson, place LB Jacob Phillips on IR.

Probably safe to say Joe Jackson and his best girl will be steppin' out tonight.
There's also the pugilist Joe Jackson.


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Originally Posted By: Ballpeen

I agree, but if totally true, we would have kept Hodge and cut Higgy. Higgy is at his ceiling...a average NFL receiver.

Not that I am complaining we kept Higgy. I understand why we kept him.

I can see that, I think Hodge is very good - but I think you can't underestimate the chemistry with Higgins. And you can argue that with time Hodge will get there ... I think the chemistry from rookie camp on is what is special and will always keep Baker to Higgins a bit special.


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Higgins was drafted two years before Baker.

I felt like Hodge and Baker had great chemistry last year. Basically every catch Hodge made was a big play.

Either way I don’t think the move is consequential. I would love to see Hodge back next year when our wide receiver depth likely won’t be what it is today.

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No doubt Hodge has more athletic talent than Higgy, but you can't say Baker had more chemistry with Hodge. That is just an untrue statement.


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Originally Posted By: SuperBrown
No doubt Hodge has more athletic talent than Higgy, but you can't say Baker had more chemistry with Hodge. That is just an untrue statement.


Unless I missed it I don’t think anyone has said that.

Let’s be clear, I am glad Higgins is on the team and I feel the correct decision was made.

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if Hodge is equal to or slightly better than Higgens you cut Hodge so Baker gets to keep his best friend and keep that team chemistry.


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Higgins has proven that he can play, and well, in every WR position. On a Super Bowl contender, that has a ton of value.


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Exactly!!

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Originally Posted By: mgh888
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen

I agree, but if totally true, we would have kept Hodge and cut Higgy. Higgy is at his ceiling...a average NFL receiver.

Not that I am complaining we kept Higgy. I understand why we kept him.

I can see that, I think Hodge is very good - but I think you can't underestimate the chemistry with Higgins. And you can argue that with time Hodge will get there ... I think the chemistry from rookie camp on is what is special and will always keep Baker to Higgins a bit special.



I believe in "chemistry" and how it relates to team, but I also think it can be a bit over rated or inflated.


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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Higgins was drafted two years before Baker.

I felt like Hodge and Baker had great chemistry last year. Basically every catch Hodge made was a big play.

Either way I don’t think the move is consequential. I would love to see Hodge back next year when our wide receiver depth likely won’t be what it is today.


And that is what is behind my comments. I seriously doubt that both of Landry and OBJ will be on the team next year.

I know we are in a win now mode, but we still need to keep an eye on the future. I don't want to be a one and done type team. I also don't think replacing Higgy with Hodge would have hurt us in the winning now department.

But, what's done is done....Go Browns!


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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: SuperBrown
No doubt Hodge has more athletic talent than Higgy, but you can't say Baker had more chemistry with Hodge. That is just an untrue statement.


Unless I missed it I don’t think anyone has said that.

Let’s be clear, I am glad Higgins is on the team and I feel the correct decision was made.


I think who we kept and who we let go revolves around long term thinking. Berry and Ski are thinking long term and projecting out past this season in the moves they have made now and going back to when Berry and Ski arrived.

They and we need to understand that the back end of the roster is the learning ground for players that we view as the future. They get some snaps here and there and they are coached really hard. From that perspective we truly don't know how these players are progressing. What we do know though is when these guys get to the field they are ready for what ever roll they are given.

We truly have a staff of coaches that are laser focused on player development, and they as a group decide who stays and who goes. There is a ton of projecting that goes on and we just don't know that part. We don't see practice on a day to day bases so there really isn't any insight on our end to declare this player to be better then the other.

In the case of Hodge and Higgins we can see pretty clearly where these guys are because they have been with the team for years now. Because the talent is pretty even Higgins gets the nod because he and Baker truly have great chemistry and in this case it's a simple choice. Higgins is pretty productive and if he had played from the start of last season in the roll he inherited later in the year I think he would have been a 1K receiver. Not bad for a guy that is slow by NFL standards who has a way of getting open at key moments and runs good routes and has the trust of his QB. I think the coaches along with Baker yes Baker decide who stays and who goes.

I to see that the Browns have set the roster up for DPJ to assume the roll of either OBJ or Landry, I don't think will have both OBJ and Landry on the roster to start next season the Browns are clearly developing their replacements. Keep an eye on Swartz and how he develops over the course of the season. He along with DPJ are our future and for sure DPJ's roll is about to get much bigger this season. He has all the signs of being a stud he is taking to coaching and has great hands and is fast to boot.

Landry isn't truly all that fast but he is quick and very savvy OBJ is a stud but he is a bit of a free lancer he and Baker haven't been able to get on the same page I think that will all change this year I think OBJ is going to be a monster for us, will see? OBJ is a very savvy WR with both quickness and top end speed. More often then not guys who try to cover him one on one grab him to slow him down. Once Baker and OBJ get on the same page he will be a monster.

I feel real good about the Browns roster the table is set for us to make a great run at the SB, and the key here is for Baker to be the Baker of the second half with a better weapon named OBJ. The defense should be the kind of Defense I enjoy the most, attacking. QB's aren't going to get a ton of time to dish the ball out and our backend isn't likely to have to lock onto WRers for extended periods of time. Our safeties are going to be focused on creating turnovers and we should see a profound increase in those numbers, both in terms of sacks and in terms of interceptions. I don't think will be all that great against the run because if the offense is who I think they will be teams will have to throw the ball to keep up. Hello Baltimore we got your number.

I am one hell of a happy fan, this is going to be one hell of a ride this season, get the popcorn ready let's all enjoy it.


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Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
Higgins - as a WR - is significantly more valuable than Hodge...it's not even close.


We just disagree. I think if Hodge played in Higgys spot, he would do just as well, and maybe better. Not to mention Hodge was pretty darn good on special teams.

Anyway, it doesn't matter....Higgy it is...it's not like I am disappointed. I just think Hodge has more upside to his game.


The difference between Higgins and Hodge is that Higgins has already proven to be reliable.. Hodge has not.

It appears that we are lined up to make a run at the brass ring... If that's the case, we need proven... Higgins is that.

Still, I was sad to see Hodge go.


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We are on the same page.

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J/c

I think Baker’s chemistry with Higgy is the main reason he’s here (and why he’s stuck here).


"First down inside the 10. A score here likely puts us in the Super Bowl. Landry is far to the left as Hooper settles into the slot. OBJ is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
J/c

I think Baker’s chemistry with Higgy is the main reason he’s here (and why he’s stuck here).


That, and he runs good routes and catches almost everything thrown at him.


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Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
J/c

I think Baker’s chemistry with Higgy is the main reason he’s here (and why he’s stuck here).


That, and he runs good routes and catches almost everything thrown at him.


There were two guys, one named Jerry Rice and one Marvin Harrison, that were very much like that. Not the fastest or quickest, but they ran impeccable routes and caught everything that came their way. I'm not saying that Higgins is those guys, but it highlights just how much value there is in those two characteristics; far more so than simply being fast or athletic.

Lastly, there is the value in having that unspoken connection. When a play breaks down, and they most definitely will, there is value in having a ton of confidence that the guy that is out there is going to work his way back to the QB in a manner where they are on the same page. That keeps drives alive.


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Good point. One thing I’ve noticed about it … Baker seems to be far more successful throwing back shoulder type throws to Higgins than any other WR


"First down inside the 10. A score here likely puts us in the Super Bowl. Landry is far to the left as Hooper settles into the slot. OBJ is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
J/c

I think Baker’s chemistry with Higgy is the main reason he’s here (and why he’s stuck here).

Unless and when I consider that that is Bull. (well "main" reason maybe) wait, NO

because Higgins! was Showing up, before Baker even arrived.
I know it's going back a long way in history, but Higgins! He was making plays with previous Qb's too.

and yeah, he's, he's just gettin better and better since, FREDDIE KITHCENS, ain't apparently holding a grudge against him, and ruining the Browns whole offense by keeping Higgins off the flipping Field! For 90% of the year.

I don't know why, sometimes, it's like I'm sure of something and then, it takes everyone else a ton of time to recognize it.

It's like people don't want to believe their eyes, they just want to believe their preconceived notions.


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I"m reading and I am agreeing, Purp.

While I am nodding to what you say, all that I see in my head is Brennan. Certainly can be mentioned in the same breath. Keeping drives alive? He was impressively effective and clutch. thumbsup


"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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