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https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/browns-announce-initial-53-man-roster-heading-into-2021-season

The Browns on Tuesday made the following roster moves to trim their roster from 80 to the required 53 before the NFL's 4 p.m. ET deadline.

Placed on reserve/injured:

G Drew Forbes (knee)

T Greg Senat (knee)

Waived:

S Elijah Benton

WR Ja'Marcus Bradley

TE Jordan Franks

G Colby Gossett

DE Porter Gustin

LB Willie Harvey

WR KhaDarel Hodge

DE Joe Jackson

RB John Kelly

QB Kyle Lauletta

DE Cameron Malveaux

TE Kyle Markway

S Jovante Moffatt

C Javon Patterson

S Sheldrick Redwine

CB Emmanuel Rugamba

LB Tegray Scales

FB Johnny Stanton IV

T Alex Taylor (from injured reserve)

DE Curtis Weaver

DT Marvin Wilson

Terminated Contract:

CB Brian Allen

DT Sheldon Day

LB Elijah Lee

WR JoJo Natson

Placed on reserve/suspended by commissioner:

WR Davion Davis

"Roster decisions are always a combination between the front office and the coaching staff making sure it's not just the most talented 53, but the right 53 to serve the different roles we need on offense, defense and the kicking game throughout the season," said Executive Vice President of Football Operations and General Manager Andrew Berry. "That communication is continuous throughout the month of August. There was a lot of good discussion and dialogue between the different groups. I think we were able to come to a really good consensus with the initial 53 guys we will have on the roster."

The Browns' initial 53-man roster and the themes that define it tell the story of Berry's first two offseasons in his position.

Of the 25 players on offense, 22 were on the team last year, giving the Browns the kind of stability they expected after attacking that side of the ball before the 2020 season. That group includes fourth-year starting QB Baker Mayfield, the dynamic backfield tandem of Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt, the Pro Bowl wide receiver tandem of Jarvis Landry and Odell Beckham Jr. and the entire starting offensive line, a group that was considered by many to be one of the best in the NFL last season. The three new players on offense were all selected in the 2021 NFL Draft.

"It's helpful to have the stability, especially for a unit that produced at a high level for us last year," Berry said. "I think that continuity in Year 2 of the same system is only going to allow that group to take another step this season. We're excited about bringing that many players back."

The Browns made a significant number of moves on their defense during the offseason through free agency and the draft. As a result, the Browns have 12 new players — including DT Andrew Billings, who opted out of the 2020 season — among the 25 who made the initial 53-man roster.

The Browns are poised to have as many as seven new defensive starters on the field for the season opener in Kansas City.

"The best part about the defensive side of the ball is they've just taken the mindset of working hard and getting better every day," Berry said. "They've been incredibly responsive to the defensive staff. We still have a long way to go as a team until we're ready for the regular season but the progress has been steady throughout the month of August.

All eight members of the Browns' 2021 draft class made the initial 53-man roster and many of them figure to play significant roles throughout the season. Additionally, all seven members of the 2020 draft class are a part of this year's initial 53.

"The rookies are players we identified throughout the draft process last year that not only were talented but fit our smart, tough, accountable culture," Berry said. "While they did show growth over the past weeks, all of them know they still have room to grow and areas to work on so they can be viable contributors throughout the season. We're excited about the growth and development all of them have made. We're by no means finished with that group, or even the veterans on the roster, but we're excited about the guys we have today."

The Browns can make additional roster moves in the coming days via waiver claims and free agent signings. They'll also look to construct a 16-man practice squad, a group of players that play a vital role throughout the season and serve as an additional layer of depth in the event of injuries on the active roster.

"It's the initial 53, it's not necessarily the final 53," Berry said. "There are certain injury situations, certain position groups where you are still juggling the dynamics over the course of the next several days. It is fluid and it's not just fluid within this first week. Roster building really is a 365-day-a-year process and it will remain fluid as we head into the regular season as well."

Breaking down the Browns' initial 53-man roster by position:
Quarterbacks (2): Baker Mayfield, Case Keenum

Running backs (4): Nick Chubb, Kareem Hunt, D'Ernest Johnson, Demetric Felton

Fullbacks (1): Andy Janovich

Tight ends (3): Austin Hooper, David Njoku, Harrison Bryant

Wide receivers (5): Jarvis Landry, Odell Beckham Jr., Donovan Peoples-Jones, Rashard Higgins, Anthony Schwartz

Offensive linemen (10): Jedrick Wills Jr., Joel Bitonio, JC Tretter, Wyatt Teller, Jack Conklin, James Hudson III, Michael Dunn, Nick Harris, Blake Hance, Chris Hubbard

Defensive linemen (8): Myles Garrett, Malik Jackson, Andrew Billings, Jadeveon Clowney, Takkarist McKinley, Jordan Elliott, Malik McDowell, Tommy Togiai

Linebackers (7): Mack Wilson, Anthony Walker, Sione Takitaki, Malcolm Smith, Jacob Phillips, Tony Fields II, Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah

Defensive backs (10): Denzel Ward, Greedy Williams, Ronnie Harrison Jr., John Johnson III, Troy Hill, Greg Newsome, M.J. Stewart, Grant Delpit, A.J. Green, Richard LeCounte III

Specialists (3): Jamie Gillan, Chase McLaughlin, Charley Hughlett


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I would think that Phillips and Dunn will hit IR after 4pm, and probably Day will be brought back. (and maybe we add a WR or TE)


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Only 3 De's on the roster. McDowell may be able to play end as well. I would think we will be looking at DE.

Last edited by Pdawg; 08/31/21 02:02 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Pdawg
Only 3 De's on the roster. McDowell may be able to play end as well. I would think we will be looking at DE.


I would guess that we add an edge through waivers.

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7 LBs wont be the final number I wouldn’t think


"First down inside the 10. A score here likely puts us in the Super Bowl. Landry is far to the left as Hooper settles into the slot. OBJ is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: Pdawg
Only 3 De's on the roster. McDowell may be able to play end as well. I would think we will be looking at DE.


I would guess that we add an edge through waivers.



surprised by cut
DT Sheldon Day


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Originally Posted By: Pdawg
Only 3 De's on the roster. McDowell may be able to play end as well. I would think we will be looking at DE.


I wonder if someone will be back as soon as Phillips hits IR. Or maybe someone from another team's cuts - though I've got no clue who was cut

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Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
7 LBs wont be the final number I wouldn’t think


Agreed.


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I was pretty close with my guess in the other roster thread...only misses were Hodge and Gustin left off for 2 LBs, and Billings over Day (which I still disagree with).

Phillips goes to the IR...probably gets replaced with another DE.

Last edited by OrangeCrush; 08/31/21 02:18 PM.
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Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
7 LBs wont be the final number I wouldn’t think


We know Phillips is going on IR. I wouldn’t be surprised if Fields, Dunn, and/or Deloitte go on IR also.

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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
7 LBs wont be the final number I wouldn’t think


We know Phillips is going on IR. I wouldn’t be surprised if Fields, Dunn, and/or Deloitte go on IR also.


Supposedly Fields is now healthy and ramping up for opening day.


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Looks like all of Berry's draft picks from this year and last have made the team so far.


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The camp surprise has to be McDowell.

He was huge long shot to make the team.

Now he could be special.

Berry has been masterful in late rounds and FA.

DPJ, LeCounte, AJ Green, D.Davis, Felton all these guys have exceded expectations.

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The fact that Tony Fields is on this roster over some of these cuts is a joke...same old "my guys in, your guys out" stuff we used to suffer from every 2 years.


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My biggest "WHAT" was cutting WR KhaDarel Hodge, this guy won't be on the market very long IMO, don't get me wrong I love our Receiving Corp just thought they would keep 6 instead of 5 ...


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The only surprises to me are Billings, who was not very good, and Fields, who we never saw.


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Originally Posted By: PastorMarc
My biggest "WHAT" was cutting WR KhaDarel Hodge, this guy won't be on the market very long IMO, don't get me wrong I love our Receiving Corp just thought they would keep 6 instead of 5 ...


Somewhere I read that Hodge's salary this year was going to be 2.(something million). If he clears waivers (which he probably won't) we could resign him at minimum and save over a million. So he may be more of a cap cut TBH.


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Yep just checked over the cap and his salary was $2,133,000 and if cut the cap savings was $2,133,000 so yes that was the reason most likely, although the Browns are $18,573,445 Over The Cap ...


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Carryover from past years probably going to cover the must spends on contracts.


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There is much we do not know especially with a guy like Fields

A lot goes into drafting a player. In addition money. Hodge was going to make $2m. Fields will not make that.

Plus Fields has been part of the team since OTA's. So he has been there and they know way more about him than we do.

Berry in the end wants the best 53 and players who they feel will develop.

You can bet this is no knee jerk reaction. They pour over the roster 365.

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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
7 LBs wont be the final number I wouldn’t think


We know Phillips is going on IR. I wouldn’t be surprised if Fields, Dunn, and/or Deloitte go on IR also.


Who is Deloitte?


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Originally Posted By: Pdawg
Only 3 De's on the roster. McDowell may be able to play end as well. I would think we will be looking at DE.


My understanding is that Malik Jackson could play DE if need be.


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In the end Taki and Wilson made it without being cut obviously we still have a long way to go at LB. I was hoping for much better then either of these players have offered up so far in their careers.


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Originally Posted By: Jester
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
7 LBs wont be the final number I wouldn’t think


We know Phillips is going on IR. I wouldn’t be surprised if Fields, Dunn, and/or Deloitte go on IR also.


Who is Deloitte?


Deloitte is what my phone autocorrected Delpit to

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Regarding DE, Stefanski said today that McDowell could move outside.

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Originally Posted By: dnadawg
The fact that Tony Fields is on this roster over some of these cuts is a joke...same old "my guys in, your guys out" stuff we used to suffer from every 2 years.


I don't totally agree, but I do understand your point on Fields.

It is what it is. I hope he turns out to be pretty good.


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Apparently, the Browns are listening to offers on Wilson. He played poorly last year. But it has been stated that he had a good camp.

IMO Taki got better last year and was playing pretty well near the end. He made some big plays.

So, the unit looks good to me.

The base

defense will be 4-2-5.

Walker was brought here to tackle and captain the defense.

Smith, Taki, Wilson are now veteran players.

JOK will be a blitzer and coverage linebacker.

Fields made the team at least for now. If he remains on the roster he will be a ST player and backup.

Woods has many options on how he wants to play down and distance. Linebacker and safety's will be all about matchups.

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I kept thinking that wilson was playing an AWFUL lot in each preseason game … the coaches/FO were either trying really evaluate him or hope he flashed for a trade


"First down inside the 10. A score here likely puts us in the Super Bowl. Landry is far to the left as Hooper settles into the slot. OBJ is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted By: dnadawg
The fact that Tony Fields is on this roster over some of these cuts is a joke...same old "my guys in, your guys out" stuff we used to suffer from every 2 years.


What's a Tony Fields?


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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: Pdawg
Only 3 De's on the roster. McDowell may be able to play end as well. I would think we will be looking at DE.


I would guess that we add an edge through waivers.


The Steelers;; with the Waiver of, Draft Pick Quince Roche, DE.
Do not let them.



If it were up to me, I'd definetly put in a waiver claim, and try to get Roche on the Browns, and for the cost, pick the 10th offensive linemen, and move on from them. Imo, I think it may be Dunn.

I'd rather have Roche, than Dunn.

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Quote:
The camp surprise has to be McDowell.


No question.. I didn't honestly think this kid had enough of his act together to make this team... I mean, with the way things change in the first weeks, he still could end up on the PS or even gone,, but to make it this far,, it's a wow moment...


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I'm not surprised because I believe McDowell can be a top 2 pass rusher on this team on any given snap.

And I'm remembering the Pass Rush abilities of Malik Jackson when I say that. And Billings, And Clowney, and Garrett, and McKinley, and anyone else.
He's just, like a truck out there in a demolition derby, he can really impose his will at times.
And a lot of the other guys you can say the same thing about.


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Originally Posted By: THROW LONG



If it were up to me, I'd definetly put in a waiver claim, and try to get Roche on the Browns, and for the cost, pick the 10th offensive linemen, and move on from them. Imo, I think it may be Dunn.

I'd rather have Roche, than Dunn.


I'd rather have a veteran DE than a rookie.


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Originally Posted By: guard dawg
Originally Posted By: THROW LONG



If it were up to me, I'd definetly put in a waiver claim, and try to get Roche on the Browns, and for the cost, pick the 10th offensive linemen, and move on from them. Imo, I think it may be Dunn.

I'd rather have Roche, than Dunn.


I'd rather have a veteran DE than a rookie.


Does Everson Griffen make sense, with his Viking ties? The Vikings just cut him.

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I'd rather have Sheldon Richardson playing well whether at DT or DE. But that's spilled milk.

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Originally Posted By: THROW LONG
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: Pdawg
Only 3 De's on the roster. McDowell may be able to play end as well. I would think we will be looking at DE.


I would guess that we add an edge through waivers.


The Steelers;; with the Waiver of, Draft Pick Quince Roche, DE.
Do not let them.



If it were up to me, I'd definetly put in a waiver claim, and try to get Roche on the Browns, and for the cost, pick the 10th offensive linemen, and move on from them. Imo, I think it may be Dunn.

I'd rather have Roche, than Dunn.

He's a little light (right now) to play DE... at 6'3" / 240lbs, he would probably be best suited at OLB in a 3-4.


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I'll be curious to see what the roster looks like in 4 or 5 days.
I mean, for the most part, this is what we're rolling with and with a few exceptions, it's what we've all pretty well expected since May.... but, I think we all suspect some final moves coming in the next few days before they button things up to prep for Week 1.


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I am sure that Dunn and Phillips will be headed to IR after the deadline expires and they can put them on the "3 week" (for lack of a better description) IR. I would guess that we will look at available WR, TE, S, and/or DL on the waiver wires.


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Originally Posted By: Dave
I'd rather have Sheldon Richardson playing well whether at DT or DE. But that's spilled milk.


Richardson had grown to be one of my favorite players there were moments in games where he took over. I loved the guy I wished that the Browns had looked at this entire situation differently then they did. What I mean by that is does or did Richardson make the Brown's a better team? I have no way of knowing this but was the Browns cutting him done because Richardson wouldn't budge on his contract? And how much was Cleveland trying to cut his pay?

Water under the bridge at this point. I still think this staff of coaches is the best group we have seen in 70 years they have a plan to develop players and so far they have done an outstanding job at it. I question the wisdom of letting Richardson go and I remind myself that they know how to develop talent.

It was clear as day that our second string played a lot of ball in the pre-season and what stood out was how good they looked as a group and that I believe goes back to how well they were coached.

I think BTW that Kelly and Hodge will be picked up off wavers if they haven't been already it was a shame to see these guys go.


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I am with you on Sheldon.

Many the play where Sheldon was hustling his butt off chasing guys downfield. He was always a high effort guy.

The silver lining is this guy Malik McDowell. His story and him being on this roster now is something.

I just listened to his press conference.

He has gone down a rough road to get to this place. He appears to be in a good place mentally.

This guy has the physical ability to be a real force. He wants to learn. He knows he has work to do. Once he reaches that place where he can play fast and react without having to think about technique and assignment. Watch out.

For an interior defensive lineman he has that rare ability of power, quickness, and speed.

I was watching one play where he took an angle. Beat his guy with quickness and with his lateral pursuit caught the ball carrier. I was like "damn."

From this point on he will get more attention. The Dline staff will have more time to give him. He will get more work against the first string OL. Those players can help him as well.

By season end this guy could be something else.

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Quote:
There is much we do not know especially with a guy like Fields

A lot goes into drafting a player. In addition money. Hodge was going to make $2m. Fields will not make that.

Plus Fields has been part of the team since OTA's. So he has been there and they know way more about him than we do.

Berry in the end wants the best 53 and players who they feel will develop.

You can bet this is no knee jerk reaction. They pour over the roster 365.


Nothing I really disagree with there, but you're missing the point. Berry kept "his" guy over others who did a lot more to earn a roster spot. Doesn't matter that they did their due diligence. Fields did not EARN a spot on this team. Hodge aside, (as an offensive player), I would take Day, Redwine, Gustin, and probably Elijah Lee over him.

Look, Berry has been very good overall, and I'm not gonna crucify him over LB#6, but he's not perfect. (Hooper signing looks like a massive overpay, the Takk/Clowney combo is still a big ? as far as reliability). This one just leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and I feel for the guys that actually earned the spot that was handed to him.


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I agree with what you said.

Having said that I actually trust these guys we have running things and I also know that they aren't perfect.

I take issue with letting talent go to keep something that hasn't proven anything to date.

Having said all of that, there is something to be said for setting up the roster in a way for sustained success, and we really haven't a clue about the guys they kept and how they are viewed not for just now but for what I am sure we all hope for, sustained success many of our views will be much more focused once we see all the players AB kept and how time reveals if he was right in what he did or wrong in what he did.

In the end I accept what he has done not because I have to but because I truly trust the man. Most of us get that and it sounds like you do too? We simply don't know what we don't know. Many of these guys will land on the practice squad is my bet, or even on the roster once we put some of our guys on IR.


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I'm with you BTTB. Time will tell if it works out, and this FO has earned the benefit of the doubt. But he just seems like a no-brainer for the PS. Who is signing a rookie 6th rounder who hasn't practiced yet to their 53?


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I totally get what what you are saying I really do.

However, that is par for the course. When GM's draft a guy they want that guy to be given a full chance.

Personally in regards to Fields I have little to offer.

I did not look closely at his college tape. And, since he has not played there is nothing to add.

I just have to trust Berry and what he sees in him.

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Originally Posted By: dnadawg
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There is much we do not know especially with a guy like Fields

A lot goes into drafting a player. In addition money. Hodge was going to make $2m. Fields will not make that.

Plus Fields has been part of the team since OTA's. So he has been there and they know way more about him than we do.

Berry in the end wants the best 53 and players who they feel will develop.

You can bet this is no knee jerk reaction. They pour over the roster 365.


Nothing I really disagree with there, but you're missing the point. Berry kept "his" guy over others who did a lot more to earn a roster spot. Doesn't matter that they did their due diligence. Fields did not EARN a spot on this team. Hodge aside, (as an offensive player), I would take Day, Redwine, Gustin, and probably Elijah Lee over him.

Look, Berry has been very good overall, and I'm not gonna crucify him over LB#6, but he's not perfect. (Hooper signing looks like a massive overpay, the Takk/Clowney combo is still a big ? as far as reliability). This one just leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and I feel for the guys that actually earned the spot that was handed to him.


I think with a talented squad - which we have - there is probably a lot more emphasis on identifying, keeping and developing high ceiling guys. Gone are the days when low floor, meh ceiling had a place on the fringes of the 53 man roster. With a much more solid and competent core, keeping 1 or 2 high ceiling, potential bust players is going to be viable. Shoot for the stars.


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Were we worried that Fields would get snatched up by someone before we could get him back?


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j/c...

I won't go the MMQB route and try to figure out which player(s) was cut to the detriment of keeping Fields. However, the LB corps took a big hit when Phillips went down and I think we're trying to build some continuity into a new scheme.

Fields is a plug 'n play backup to JOK if were going to build a scheme around versatile LBs that can stay on the field regardless of situation. He has speed, range and instincts and fits into the "space" game that NFL offenses are trying to exploit.


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Originally Posted By: mgh888
Originally Posted By: dnadawg
Quote:
There is much we do not know especially with a guy like Fields

A lot goes into drafting a player. In addition money. Hodge was going to make $2m. Fields will not make that.

Plus Fields has been part of the team since OTA's. So he has been there and they know way more about him than we do.

Berry in the end wants the best 53 and players who they feel will develop.

You can bet this is no knee jerk reaction. They pour over the roster 365.


Nothing I really disagree with there, but you're missing the point. Berry kept "his" guy over others who did a lot more to earn a roster spot. Doesn't matter that they did their due diligence. Fields did not EARN a spot on this team. Hodge aside, (as an offensive player), I would take Day, Redwine, Gustin, and probably Elijah Lee over him.

Look, Berry has been very good overall, and I'm not gonna crucify him over LB#6, but he's not perfect. (Hooper signing looks like a massive overpay, the Takk/Clowney combo is still a big ? as far as reliability). This one just leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and I feel for the guys that actually earned the spot that was handed to him.


I think with a talented squad - which we have - there is probably a lot more emphasis on identifying, keeping and developing high ceiling guys. Gone are the days when low floor, meh ceiling had a place on the fringes of the 53 man roster. With a much more solid and competent core, keeping 1 or 2 high ceiling, potential bust players is going to be viable. Shoot for the stars.



I agree, but if totally true, we would have kept Hodge and cut Higgy. Higgy is at his ceiling...a average NFL receiver.

Not that I am complaining we kept Higgy. I understand why we kept him.


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We didn’t get awarded anyone on waivers.

Hodge got claimed by the Lions.

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Higgins - as a WR - is significantly more valuable than Hodge...it's not even close.

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Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
Higgins - as a WR - is significantly more valuable than Hodge...it's not even close.


We just disagree. I think if Hodge played in Higgys spot, he would do just as well, and maybe better. Not to mention Hodge was pretty darn good on special teams.

Anyway, it doesn't matter....Higgy it is...it's not like I am disappointed. I just think Hodge has more upside to his game.


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Apparently Stefanski/Berry think otherwise.


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Originally Posted By: SuperBrown
Apparently Stefanski/Berry think otherwise.


I hope that didn't take you long to figure out...lol


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McDowell can play inside and out amongst others.


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Browns re-sign DE Joe Jackson, place LB Jacob Phillips on IR.

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/bro...injured-reserve

Probably safe to say Joe Jackson and his best girl will be steppin' out tonight.

Last edited by Dave; 09/01/21 05:51 PM. Reason: Sorry, it was a gimme - I had to take it.
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Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
Higgins - as a WR - is significantly more valuable than Hodge...it's not even close.


We just disagree. I think if Hodge played in Higgys spot, he would do just as well, and maybe better. Not to mention Hodge was pretty darn good on special teams.

Anyway, it doesn't matter....Higgy it is...it's not like I am disappointed. I just think Hodge has more upside to his game.

I'm pretty indifferent to the Hodge/Higgins debate. Though Mayfield seems to have much better chemistry with Higgins. Seems clear though that we kept Felton as RB#4 but he will also serve as WR#6 on the depth chart thus filling 2 depth chart slots. Which is how we kept 10 OL, which may or may not hold as we go forward.


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Originally Posted By: bonefish

I totally get what what you are saying I really do.

However, that is par for the course. When GM's draft a guy they want that guy to be given a full chance.

Personally in regards to Fields I have little to offer.

I did not look closely at his college tape. And, since he has not played there is nothing to add.

I just have to trust Berry and what he sees in him.




I have said for years that lack of continuity hurts franchises.

When the Browns were changing front office people every other year you could count on guys being released from the previous front office regimes that were not great players but had just gotten experience and could have been contributors. Not saying we released pro bowl caliber guys, but it takes all levels of players. No team has 53 great players. Hopefully the 53 we retain are deserving by their play.

Not in any way criticizing Berry as I know he has much more knowledge than I. I don't care how it happens, I just want the tea to win consistently.

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Originally Posted By: Dave
Browns re-sign DE Joe Jackson, place LB Jacob Phillips on IR.

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/bro...injured-reserve

Probably safe to say Joe Jackson and his best girl will be steppin' out tonight.


I thought he outplayed Gustin in the preseason. I figured we would add him when he didn't show up on the practice squad.


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Originally Posted By: Dave
Browns re-sign DE Joe Jackson, place LB Jacob Phillips on IR.

Probably safe to say Joe Jackson and his best girl will be steppin' out tonight.
There's also the pugilist Joe Jackson.


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Originally Posted By: Ballpeen

I agree, but if totally true, we would have kept Hodge and cut Higgy. Higgy is at his ceiling...a average NFL receiver.

Not that I am complaining we kept Higgy. I understand why we kept him.

I can see that, I think Hodge is very good - but I think you can't underestimate the chemistry with Higgins. And you can argue that with time Hodge will get there ... I think the chemistry from rookie camp on is what is special and will always keep Baker to Higgins a bit special.


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Higgins was drafted two years before Baker.

I felt like Hodge and Baker had great chemistry last year. Basically every catch Hodge made was a big play.

Either way I don’t think the move is consequential. I would love to see Hodge back next year when our wide receiver depth likely won’t be what it is today.

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No doubt Hodge has more athletic talent than Higgy, but you can't say Baker had more chemistry with Hodge. That is just an untrue statement.


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Originally Posted By: SuperBrown
No doubt Hodge has more athletic talent than Higgy, but you can't say Baker had more chemistry with Hodge. That is just an untrue statement.


Unless I missed it I don’t think anyone has said that.

Let’s be clear, I am glad Higgins is on the team and I feel the correct decision was made.

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jc
if Hodge is equal to or slightly better than Higgens you cut Hodge so Baker gets to keep his best friend and keep that team chemistry.


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Higgins has proven that he can play, and well, in every WR position. On a Super Bowl contender, that has a ton of value.


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Originally Posted By: mgh888
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen

I agree, but if totally true, we would have kept Hodge and cut Higgy. Higgy is at his ceiling...a average NFL receiver.

Not that I am complaining we kept Higgy. I understand why we kept him.

I can see that, I think Hodge is very good - but I think you can't underestimate the chemistry with Higgins. And you can argue that with time Hodge will get there ... I think the chemistry from rookie camp on is what is special and will always keep Baker to Higgins a bit special.



I believe in "chemistry" and how it relates to team, but I also think it can be a bit over rated or inflated.


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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Higgins was drafted two years before Baker.

I felt like Hodge and Baker had great chemistry last year. Basically every catch Hodge made was a big play.

Either way I don’t think the move is consequential. I would love to see Hodge back next year when our wide receiver depth likely won’t be what it is today.


And that is what is behind my comments. I seriously doubt that both of Landry and OBJ will be on the team next year.

I know we are in a win now mode, but we still need to keep an eye on the future. I don't want to be a one and done type team. I also don't think replacing Higgy with Hodge would have hurt us in the winning now department.

But, what's done is done....Go Browns!


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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: SuperBrown
No doubt Hodge has more athletic talent than Higgy, but you can't say Baker had more chemistry with Hodge. That is just an untrue statement.


Unless I missed it I don’t think anyone has said that.

Let’s be clear, I am glad Higgins is on the team and I feel the correct decision was made.


I think who we kept and who we let go revolves around long term thinking. Berry and Ski are thinking long term and projecting out past this season in the moves they have made now and going back to when Berry and Ski arrived.

They and we need to understand that the back end of the roster is the learning ground for players that we view as the future. They get some snaps here and there and they are coached really hard. From that perspective we truly don't know how these players are progressing. What we do know though is when these guys get to the field they are ready for what ever roll they are given.

We truly have a staff of coaches that are laser focused on player development, and they as a group decide who stays and who goes. There is a ton of projecting that goes on and we just don't know that part. We don't see practice on a day to day bases so there really isn't any insight on our end to declare this player to be better then the other.

In the case of Hodge and Higgins we can see pretty clearly where these guys are because they have been with the team for years now. Because the talent is pretty even Higgins gets the nod because he and Baker truly have great chemistry and in this case it's a simple choice. Higgins is pretty productive and if he had played from the start of last season in the roll he inherited later in the year I think he would have been a 1K receiver. Not bad for a guy that is slow by NFL standards who has a way of getting open at key moments and runs good routes and has the trust of his QB. I think the coaches along with Baker yes Baker decide who stays and who goes.

I to see that the Browns have set the roster up for DPJ to assume the roll of either OBJ or Landry, I don't think will have both OBJ and Landry on the roster to start next season the Browns are clearly developing their replacements. Keep an eye on Swartz and how he develops over the course of the season. He along with DPJ are our future and for sure DPJ's roll is about to get much bigger this season. He has all the signs of being a stud he is taking to coaching and has great hands and is fast to boot.

Landry isn't truly all that fast but he is quick and very savvy OBJ is a stud but he is a bit of a free lancer he and Baker haven't been able to get on the same page I think that will all change this year I think OBJ is going to be a monster for us, will see? OBJ is a very savvy WR with both quickness and top end speed. More often then not guys who try to cover him one on one grab him to slow him down. Once Baker and OBJ get on the same page he will be a monster.

I feel real good about the Browns roster the table is set for us to make a great run at the SB, and the key here is for Baker to be the Baker of the second half with a better weapon named OBJ. The defense should be the kind of Defense I enjoy the most, attacking. QB's aren't going to get a ton of time to dish the ball out and our backend isn't likely to have to lock onto WRers for extended periods of time. Our safeties are going to be focused on creating turnovers and we should see a profound increase in those numbers, both in terms of sacks and in terms of interceptions. I don't think will be all that great against the run because if the offense is who I think they will be teams will have to throw the ball to keep up. Hello Baltimore we got your number.

I am one hell of a happy fan, this is going to be one hell of a ride this season, get the popcorn ready let's all enjoy it.


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Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
Higgins - as a WR - is significantly more valuable than Hodge...it's not even close.


We just disagree. I think if Hodge played in Higgys spot, he would do just as well, and maybe better. Not to mention Hodge was pretty darn good on special teams.

Anyway, it doesn't matter....Higgy it is...it's not like I am disappointed. I just think Hodge has more upside to his game.


The difference between Higgins and Hodge is that Higgins has already proven to be reliable.. Hodge has not.

It appears that we are lined up to make a run at the brass ring... If that's the case, we need proven... Higgins is that.

Still, I was sad to see Hodge go.


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We are on the same page.

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J/c

I think Baker’s chemistry with Higgy is the main reason he’s here (and why he’s stuck here).


"First down inside the 10. A score here likely puts us in the Super Bowl. Landry is far to the left as Hooper settles into the slot. OBJ is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
J/c

I think Baker’s chemistry with Higgy is the main reason he’s here (and why he’s stuck here).


That, and he runs good routes and catches almost everything thrown at him.


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Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
J/c

I think Baker’s chemistry with Higgy is the main reason he’s here (and why he’s stuck here).


That, and he runs good routes and catches almost everything thrown at him.


There were two guys, one named Jerry Rice and one Marvin Harrison, that were very much like that. Not the fastest or quickest, but they ran impeccable routes and caught everything that came their way. I'm not saying that Higgins is those guys, but it highlights just how much value there is in those two characteristics; far more so than simply being fast or athletic.

Lastly, there is the value in having that unspoken connection. When a play breaks down, and they most definitely will, there is value in having a ton of confidence that the guy that is out there is going to work his way back to the QB in a manner where they are on the same page. That keeps drives alive.


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Good point. One thing I’ve noticed about it … Baker seems to be far more successful throwing back shoulder type throws to Higgins than any other WR


"First down inside the 10. A score here likely puts us in the Super Bowl. Landry is far to the left as Hooper settles into the slot. OBJ is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
J/c

I think Baker’s chemistry with Higgy is the main reason he’s here (and why he’s stuck here).

Unless and when I consider that that is Bull. (well "main" reason maybe) wait, NO

because Higgins! was Showing up, before Baker even arrived.
I know it's going back a long way in history, but Higgins! He was making plays with previous Qb's too.

and yeah, he's, he's just gettin better and better since, FREDDIE KITHCENS, ain't apparently holding a grudge against him, and ruining the Browns whole offense by keeping Higgins off the flipping Field! For 90% of the year.

I don't know why, sometimes, it's like I'm sure of something and then, it takes everyone else a ton of time to recognize it.

It's like people don't want to believe their eyes, they just want to believe their preconceived notions.


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I"m reading and I am agreeing, Purp.

While I am nodding to what you say, all that I see in my head is Brennan. Certainly can be mentioned in the same breath. Keeping drives alive? He was impressively effective and clutch. thumbsup


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Quote:
I know we are in a win now mode, but we still need to keep an eye on the future. I don't want to be a one and done type team.



Based on what I've seen from this admin, there is little chance of that. Can't believe I'm actually saying this with confidence after so many years of... awful. I've watched how this team was assembled. It was unlike anything we had before.

So much of our fan talk revolves around the depth we seeing being built, and that's no accident. Some pretty impressive stuff has been done since 0-16, and it's been done in a very deliberate fashion. The results speak for themselves.

This isn't Butch Davis '02. We're not a house of cards flirting with cap hell this time. This current Browns team was built the way we always screamed for back in the day. It's now built to accommodate player churn.

I'm feeling pretty confident these days. It was never a curse. It was always "stupid at the top." These guys are handling their business with a minimum of trivia, and I expect it to continue.

Don't forget- I'm the "culture guy." Have been since since.


I think we're getting set up pretty well.

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wow.
Brian Brennen.

Thanks for the refresh.


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Originally Posted By: bonefish

We are on the same page.


Sometimes I think I wrote a post you authored that is how much we agree. It's rare but it has happened that we disagree.

You're a very smart man cool and you along with a few other people make this sight very enjoyable for me. For the most part I truly enjoy all the posts. Even throw sometimes writes something worthy of reading I have to admit I skip over most of what he says or writes. You can tell he reads a lot and has some knowledge but his conclusions are weird.

Oh and I truly miss Vers, he had a wealth of knowledge but to often was dragged into meaningless arguments. He took any opinion personnel and often it wasn't, it was just different. In truth there is great value in opinions and conclusions other then your own. I love posts that make me think, Vers did that for me at least.

It's rare that I miss much when it comes to reading things here or elsewhere Kiper has us losing in the SB to Green Bay. thumbsup Turns out we aren't nuts after all, hahaha.

I think if we can handle KC come playoff time we will be able to handle Green Bay as well.

You probably do it too but when I watch the KC game from last year I see a truly different football team in the second half this team has another gear and oh man are they good when they get there. This season they have to play in that higher gear every week. With these sorts of targets being placed on us. We have to play at a very high level every single week, teams are going to throw everything they have at us less then all we got every week isn't going to do. Ski has his work cut out for him, but what a great place to be ah?


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I am very confident in what the offense can do. We saw it and it will be even better with the additions of Odell, Felton and Schwartz.

Baker is so dialed in. You can see it in his body language. His atttude. The way he answers questions. How he relates to teammates. He is in charge and is feeling it.

But the defense is where we will separate. Myles and Clowney are poised for huge years. This guy McDowell by seasons end could be an inside pressence.

At the second level JOK is going to make a difference.
This is one of the best articles Mary K has ever written.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/09...-kay-cabot.html

One of the few times that she has stepped out and drawn a conclusion.

The secondary is where we lost games and allowed teams to comeback on us.

JJ3 is a leader and a smart player.
Hill is another guy who anticipates the offense and reads well.

Harrison plays what I like to call a middle safety. He will run support and drop.

Newsome has had a really good camp. He showed why we drafted him in the first. He is tough, quick, and has adapted to this level really fast.

Delpit coming out of college was a total stud. A complete player that can play both FS and SS. Woods will be smart and will ease him into things.

Ward is a top corner. Great technician.

Berry has given Woods every tool necessary to make this an elite defense.

The defense is why my expectations are through the roof.

To win in the post season. You have to be able to stop teams. The quarterbacks in the post season are all studs. The offenses to good. You have to be able to pressure the quarterback and cover.

This defense will look nothing like last year. It may take a little time to reach full potential.
But I don't expect the defense to be a problem early. Just not what they will become.

Thx for the compliment.

I remember when you were really calling out Holmgren. You were right. I thought he was going to be good and he was not.

In 1987 when the season began I thought we would win it all.

This is a better team. Berry has brought in talented high quality players.

Stefanski has added structure, discipline, and chemistry. He has molded the right attitude. Last year this team was forged through adversity.

This year they know how to win.

Should be a hellava ride.

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I saw the piece by Mary Kay. I agree with her logic at the same time I will go with what Ski and Joe think is the best route.

This McDowell kid is going to be unbelievable we hit a home run when we picked him up.

I saw him repeatedly man handle everyone he lined up over I see no way he doesn't start and dominate.

You put him next to Myles or Clowney there is no way that pressure doesn't come instantly. He demands a double team, if you don't double team him he will take you apart. He needs some seasoning for sure but just plug him in and let him raise hell, you couple that with JOK and really an average backend and they will be dominate. Until I saw him on Sunday I was like yeah sure now I am a huge fan this kid if he can keep his head together will be our mini-Aaron Donald once again Berry has knocked it out of the park.

We can kick it around and talk all sorts of crap but this is probably one of the greatest lineups of players ever assembled. Those are big words and a huge mountain to climb for sure but man oh man this team is stacked, and even the practice squad is formidable. SMH

It truly is time to watch Ski prepare this team for the greatness that is within this group of players.

So as I have said, put a few cold ones on ice, make a big bowl of pop-corn and enjoy a season or really seasons of unbelievable football to follow. The only way these guys lose is if they don't give great effort. We are built to not just win football games but to dominate and I include every team in the NFL.


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Originally Posted By: Clemdawg
Quote:
I know we are in a win now mode, but we still need to keep an eye on the future. I don't want to be a one and done type team.



Based on what I've seen from this admin, there is little chance of that. Can't believe I'm actually saying this with confidence after so many years of... awful. I've watched how this team was assembled. It was unlike anything we had before.

So much of our fan talk revolves around the depth we seeing being built, and that's no accident. Some pretty impressive stuff has been done since 0-16, and it's been done in a very deliberate fashion. The results speak for themselves.

This isn't Butch Davis '02. We're not a house of cards flirting with cap hell this time. This current Browns team was built the way we always screamed for back in the day. It's now built to accommodate player churn.

I'm feeling pretty confident these days. It was never a curse. It was always "stupid at the top." These guys are handling their business with a minimum of trivia, and I expect it to continue.

Don't forget- I'm the "culture guy." Have been since since.


I think we're getting set up pretty well.

.02


I do too. Don't think my comments were somehow intended to think we aren't. I am 100% convinced that Berry and the team surrounding him are 100% focused on that.

The tires on the car are about to change. It is now Stefanski at the helm. The role of the FO for this years team is nearly over except for the pro personnel guys who will keep scouting pro players we might add to the roster for this season.

The rest ( or most) of the FO and scouting are now turning the page on this years teams work and starting to focus on next years team. College players, the draft, contracts, salary cap. All of those things are now the focus.

The "or most" part is Depo's staff. Some of them are still focused on this years data other teams compile to provide Stefanski and staff the best info possible to help them game plan and help Stefanski if we are starting to compile trends that might help other teams plan against us.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

GM Strong




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Bone and BTTB, I enjoy your thoughts.

Whenever I look at the Browns today, I see a myriad of combinations from both sides of the ball. I also see a Front Office developing an innovative way of thinking. I dislike the word scientific but I think "diversified" works. Cleveland is doing nothing new just combining schools of thought.

On offense, Ski can easily scheme 11-personnel, 12-personnel, and 21-personnel. You can run the same 20 plays in each with a complete lineup change. With a Paul Brown flare, this season will define the intelligence level of this coaching staff and players. The combinations is mind blowing what they can game plan each week. I think I read someone earlier stating the Browns offense has better talent then KC. I totally agree here. I look back at the Kardiac Kid years and what Coach Rutigliano had. Tell me this offense does not have more talent and depth across the board. There maybe a player or two better from either era, but across the board I don't recall a more versatile group.

On defense, the Browns can easily run defensive groups 3-4, 4-3, 4-2-5, and wide-nine. In the secondary, having the three safeties, they can run both press and zone coverage. To put the cherry on top, one week Coach Woods can run an aggressive blitz heavily scheme and next week play heavy coverage.

Key here is versatility. I see it spreading throughout the organization. Berry is bringing in different flavors hiring ex-GMs. DePodesta is adding analytical people with different mind sets.

I think the Cleveland Browns have turned the table 180 degrees from five years ago and become the innovators of tomorrow. I am not saying everything the Browns have done was correct. What I am saying they finally developed a formula that works. They have created something different.

Knowing the path that Cleveland normally travels. I foresee a rocky start. About week 6 we begin to see the light!!!! I can't wait for this season to start. BEER ME and GO BROWNS!!

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1st Bugs welcome back my man missed you and as always you raise some great points.

I said the thing about us having better talent then KC and it isn't even close in fact I don't know why I said it because I honestly homer to side don't think I should have to repeat it 17 times and then again in the playoffs we have much better talent then KC. They have 3 great players and beyond that they are pretty average.

It's strange though to hear or see you write about the coaching I believe that this staff is incredibly talented and laser focused on player development. I also have said earlier on while posting that I believe that the Browns are headed for a dynasty run led by the scheming of our head coach who I believe will be talked about with the Lombardi's, Paul Browns, and BB before he hangs up his clip board.

You seem to be of the same mind set. Again Welcome back I have always enjoyed your insights.


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