DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Covid ~ Wave After Wave ~ Part 5

Well then nobody should be able to tell me I can't smoke in a crowded indoor place. Enjoy my 2nd hand smoke

Actually the Supreme Court has ruled that vaccine mandates are constitutional. I believe it was in the 1930's. I don't seem to recall the constitution being amended in this regard.

As I, and others, said from the very beginning when the left said "Nobody is ever going to force you to take the vaccine".. I agreed, but they would make it almost impossible to function as a member of society without it.... and here we are.

I appreciate that perspective, arch.

I think one thing to distinguish COVID from the flu, is that you actually have guidance, protocols and mandates in place. So, hypothetically, for instance, if you are on an airplane and are required to wear a mask but you take it off when nobody is looking and you get the people sitting around you sick. Or, if you are a nurse in a hospital that mandates vaccines and/or social distancing, and somehow skirt getting the vaccine, and then you get a patient sick with COVID.

Something more intentional would be like when Peters spit at Jarvis Landry. Say something like that happened and then the other person came down with COVID.

There are probably a host of hypotheticals that are better than the ones I'm naming off the top of my head, but the point is with COVID, you have actual mandates and protocols in place, which add more of a layer of responsibility than we have seen previously with things like the flu, SARS, etc.

Did you ever attend a school? If you did, you were vaccinated. It is that simple.

Media Doesn’t Hide Their Disappointment That Joe Rogan Survived Covid-19 by Taking Ivermectin
By J.D. Rucker • Sep. 1, 2021

Judging by the plethora of reactions from leftist and mainstream media, they are utterly appalled that podcaster Joe Rogan survived Covid-19. They aren’t upset that he didn’t die, per se. They are upset that he used treatments recommended by thousands of doctors but panned by the vaccine-pushers in government and Big Pharma: Ivermectin.

He didn’t struggle through the disease for weeks. He didn’t sit on his death bed urging people to not listen to his complaints about vaccine mandates (he’s vaccinated, by the way). Instead, he “threw the kitchen sink” at the disease and recovered after three days with one “hard” day in the middle.

“I really only had one bad day, Sunday sucked, but Monday was better, Tuesday felt better than Monday, and today I actually feel good,” he said. “I feel pretty f**king good.”

Ivermectin, an anti-parasite drug that is widely prescribed (though not widely enough) by doctors who understand its efficacy in treating Covid-19, is the #1 target of Big Pharma and their puppets at the CDC, mainstream media, Big Tech, and academia.

Many of mainstream media’s stories didn’t even mention that he recovered, let alone how. They saw the video and decided their headline would be something like CNN’s “Joe Rogan says he tested positive for Covid-19.” In the video, Anderson Cooper stresses that Ivermectin is for horses and the CDC opposes its use. He then brought on Brian “Tater” Stelter and disgraced former Planned Parenthood Director Leana Wen. They, of course, panned Ivermectin.

Business Insider didn’t hold back their punches, using the opportunity to highlight one of the uses for Ivermectin. Their headline reads, “Joe Rogan says he has COVID-19 and is taking ivermectin, a horse dewormer that the CDC is warning people not to take.”

Cristina Laila at The Gateway Pundit found more examples of the media’s unhinged reactions:

“Rogan did not reveal if he’s been vaccinated against the coronavirus but said he’s been taking a number of medications, mentioning a Z-Pak, prednisolone and ivermectin, which is given to livestock and not recommended for the treatment of COVID-19.” The Hill reported.

“Joe Rogan announced that he has tested positive for the coronavirus. He said he took a series of medications, including ivermectin, but did not make any mention of the vaccine.” Axios whined.

“Joe Rogan, a podcasting giant who has been dismissive of vaccination has Covid” – The New York Times rage reported.

“Joe Rogan says he has Covid, took widely discredited horse drug ivermectin. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration last month urged people to stop believing misinformation that the livestock treatment would help cure Covid-19.” ABC News reported.

Judging by reporting, mainstream media personalities wish Rogan had died from Covid after taking Ivermectin, reinforcing their false narrative that it’s ineffective and dangerous. He recovered quickly and the media is big mad about it.

https://thelibertydaily.com/media-doesnt...ing-ivermectin/

File this under, “if you don’t like the data, change the method”

Florida changes reporting method

So this is the result

worldometer

So DeSantis is fudging the numbers to hide the facts.

Liars, damn liars and statistics…

If Trumpians want to put horse wormer down their gullets they can have at it for all I care. Bullets cure covid too. A bullet to the head, no more covid, simple as that... Probably as safe as Trumps bleach injections or the cockamamie "alternative" meds the right keeps trying to push.

Seeing all the propaganda you post from sites I would never have found without somebody like you or fish posting them... Well I'm convinced that Trumpian GOPers are all just bat crap crazy OR would rather die than admit to being wrong.

Crazy maps and charts.

Here's what it says, and someone correct me if I'm reading wrong


The dramatic difference is due to a small change in the fine print. Until three weeks ago, data collected by DOH and published on the CDC website counted deaths by the date they were recorded — a common method for producing daily stats used by most states. On Aug. 10, Florida switched its methodology and, along with just a handful of other states, began to tally new deaths by the date the person died.

If you chart deaths by Florida’s new method, based on date of death, it will generally appear — even during a spike like the present — that deaths are on a recent downslope. That’s because it takes time for deaths to be evaluated and death certificates processed. When those deaths finally are tallied, they are assigned to the actual date of death — creating a spike where there once existed a downslope and moving the downslope forward in time.
-------------------------

Sounds like the numbers will be the same, just show up in the timeline at a different time. And honestly, I'd rather have them verify the death was covid related before reporting it.

Now what they declare "covid related" might be an issue. And as long as this "processing" doesn't take months, I don't see a real issue with it, I mean date of death is the one static point that would remain no matter what the process is, and the previous method allowed for large numbers to be held back and reported in groups, creating artificial spikes/downtrends.

J/C

Saw a tweet from Conan O'Brien where he said "Great, now my horse has a parasite, but all the pharmacy had left was COVID vaccines..."

That was great! lol

Look at the worldometer graphs. It explains why cases have deaths have fallen even afte cases rose to about 20k per day.

This is the second go around for Desantis. He got into a fight with one of the statisticians in the health department and fired her. Then arrested her.

I never understood the ridiculous angle anti-vaxxers are taking when they say Big Pharma are pushing vaccines as their money-maker, then turning around and arguing for a drug therapy.

Which leads me to this. Ivermectin is made my Merck. Is Merck 'Big Pharma'? How does that make you feel about Ivermectin? How does Merck feel about Ivermectin?

https://www.merck.com/news/merck-statement-on-ivermectin-use-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/

That's Merck, the maker of Ivermectin, NOT endorsing using Ivermectin to treat COVID. It specifically cites lack of efficacy data overall, and a concerning lack of safety data in the studies that are out there.

Again, that's coming from the maker of the anti-parasite medicine people are pushing to treat a virus.

Checkmate.

That would you be trying to say that anyone who owns a business that is trying to protect their employees or customers from the invaccinated "must be liberal". That CEO's of airlines who demand you wear a mask "must be liberal. That's just a lie. Common sense isn't always determined by your politics.

This would all be so hilarious if it wasn't so damn sad. Never in a million years would I have thought that republicans would become the party of dumbasses. But then the tea party came along... the rest is history. Now it seems that's all that party is.

That's why I stated that I might be mis-reading it, but according to the article, I interpret it to say what changed was instead of recording 100 deaths on thursday that took place between monday and wednesday, they are now recording them as 28 died on monday, 32 on tuesday, 20 died on wednesday and 20 died on thursday, by the date they died, not by the date they decided to write it down. so it seems the numbers aren't really changing, just the day they appear on the graph.

So IMO, you would see a more realistic steady 20-30 graph instead of a sudden spike to 100 on thursday.

Again, I may just be misinterpreting what the article is saying.

What they are doing is waiting for the for the death certificate to be processed, and then adjusting the prior date total.

So the current date number will be low, and then as time goes on, prior dates numbers increase to reflect the death.

So the graphs will look really good for today, because death certificates have not been issued. But a couple weeks later, the numbers will increase to the real amount.

...and by adjusting the prior total at a later date, the graph always looks like things are on the "downswing".

Pretty shady if you think about it.

And people are looking at today and this weeks numbers. They're not going back to last week to see how much that number increased.

Yep. Nobody is screen-shotting a graph from week to week, they're just looking at a constant downward slope and thinking "well the numbers have been going down for a while now- must be under control".

You are very misinformed. You must watch the news a lot.

Not watching it helps inform you?

Your choices are to be uninformed or misinformed.. take your pick.

Tell me what misinformation I am spreading, I'll wait.

Now we will have to carry "papers" to go to the store.


Hmmm....mark of the beast?

We're nowhere near that point yet, but HOPEFULLY soon. I don't see why we should reward ignorance and selfishness. And I don't say that to make you or DC angry, I say it because that's how I see it. If this were never made political, we wouldn't be here.

When you started school, when anyone starts school, you have to show proof of vaccination. Several jobs require it too. How is this any different. It would have been better if they were made mandatory from the jump, but a passport works too. And it creates job opportunities for republicans... some will create fake papers, some will get jobs that the unvaxxed lose.

If covid had a uterus, republicans would try to control it then.

Wow, harsh but true.
Never the less, still harsh.

Ivermectin is a generic and it really would compete in this application to other medicines being used for treatment. It is not a vaccine alternative.

Ivermectin competes with patent protected novel drugs that companies like Merck are interested in selling. The number one treatment drug, Remdesivir, costs over $3000 per pill and they are selling Billions of it per quarter.

Our medical system has a real problem when it comes to approving devices and drugs that are generic. There is no money to be made in generics, so nobody funds the research and clinical trials
Check this out, 1484 clinical studies completed related to Covid-19
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?c...mp;Search=Apply
But only 31 studies completed with NIH or other Federal Funding:
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?c...mp;Search=Apply
Even then, almost all of the government studies were still performed on proprietary, patented drugs.

I don't disagree with you, but that's kinda irrelevant to the conversation about COVID today, IMO. We have a pandemic that's (re)spreading right now, so trying to tackle long-standing issues with our healthcare system (while necessary and worthwhile) probably won't help us with the issue that's in front of us.

As for the rest of your post, I think we're actually on the same page, for the most part. Ivermectin is not a generic for Remdesivir, though. One's an anti-parasitic, the other is an anti-viral. To your point, neither of those are an alternative to a vaccine... but that was also one of the points I was trying to make as well.

You misunderstood me. Ivermectin is a generic for the brand name Stromectol. Since it is not patent protected, it can be made by any pharma and is therefore extremely cheap. Merck makes almost nothing off of Stromectol, but they have several new anti-virals for COVID in the pipeline that they are hoping to get approved and actually just sold the government $1.2 Billion worth of the drug Molnupiravir (over $700 per treatment) for treatment of COVID (and since the government bought it, most of it will go to waste).

I think it is relevant because the Government organizations that are supposed to be working together to get us through this (FDA, CDC, NIH, NIAID, BARDA,), and who have been appropriated enormous sums of funding to identify, test, and approve treatments. When asked, the heads of the CDC, NIH, and NIAID will put out information saying people shouldn't use a drug because it has not been FDA approved, but if you ask the FDA why it hasn't been approved, they will say it is because it has not been clinically tested. Well, the CDC, NIH, NIAID, and BARDA all have funding appropriated for this purpose and they have spent all of their resources on giving their money away to the Pharma industry that they are captive to.

I am not going to argue about the quality of the evidence and clinical trials that support the use of Ivermectin for treatment of COVID. That should be reviewed by physicians and if safe and effective and a net benefit, then they should prescribe it to their patients.

I cannot understand what is broken in peoples minds that we now have people rooting for and against certain medications. I think society has become mentally ill. Why in the hell would we not want physicians to have another tool in their toolbag? Why the hell are people doing victory laps and celebrating negligence and incompetence in our government organizations when they fail to get drugs tested and approved? Because they heard someone that is political opposition speak about it favorably? That's nuts.

Why play these word games? Calling a drug and anti-viral or anti-parasitic, or calling it and animal drug? When people do that, they are doing it to spread FUD. Drugs can have multiple uses. Ivermectin has been known for a long time to have many uses, including as an anti-viral. Additionally, almost all veterinary drugs were developed for humans and repurposed for animals. This includes Ivermectin.

Since drugs like Remdesivir are only approved once a person is hospitalized, then it seems to me that a cheap drug that could be prescribed at the early stages of illness would save many lives if it could prevent hospitalizations in the first place. That would be a great win for everyone except Big Pharma.

So you really didn't provide anything that concludes that it helps fight against Covid. Every medication my doctor prescribes me is a generic except one. You're still reaching. Even the company who makes the non generic form tells you it isn't for Covid yet you keep reaching.

Merck Statement on Ivermectin use During the COVID-19 Pandemic

No scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID-19 from pre-clinical studies;
No meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with COVID-19 disease, and;
A concerning lack of safety data in the majority of studies.

https://www.merck.com/news/merck-statement-on-ivermectin-use-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/

Yet you seem to think you know more than the very people who stand to gain the most from it? Come on man, quit convincing yourself of the outlandish. Furthering things like this that can only mislead others is why we're where we are now.

I see the point you are trying to make. Just one question, where did you get your medical degree? And wikipedia/google/Fox News comment section/4chan don't count.

Let's start with the fact that Ivermectin is approved for use in humans.. it is not just a "horse wormer".. and some have actually done some clinical trials to see if Ivermectin was effective against Covid.. as far as I know those trials have been inconclusive.. now anybody who took it without consulting a physician or took a horse size dosage is just an idiot..

Then let's move on to the fact that Trump never said anybody should inject themselves with bleach...

And your suggestion that people should just shoot themselves in the head is pathetic and disgusting.

So when even the manufacturer of the drug itself says it has shown no benefits in terms of Covid you should ask someone else?

No, he just made himself look like an idiot by suggesting to a top health expert that we should look into that. Then when it was made plain to him it made him look like an idiot he claimed it was a joke.

Yeah, that's what he was doing, joking in a press conference about a pandemic.

I don't have a medical degree. I am not providing medical advice.

I will repeat myself:
I am not going to argue about the quality of the evidence and clinical trials that support the use of Ivermectin for treatment of COVID. That should be reviewed by physicians and if safe and effective and a net benefit, then they should prescribe it to their patients.

Do you have an issue with Physicians treating their patients with Ivermectin? If so, based off of what?