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Originally Posted By: mac
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
Agreed on the Chiefs game. That’s understandable .. but we shouldn’t be struggling to stop the Texans. They diced us up with Tyrod.

We hear all year about Garrett, Clowney, Ward, JOK, Johnson, etc … and we look terrible thus far.



D4...like I said, how could any DC not see the need to vary the defense so it's not so obvious that the Browns are playing a soft zone prevent type defense?

Mixing up the defense so it's not so easy for the opponent's QB to recognize the coverage should be a basic talent expected from a DC.

It would appear that the Bears, with an average OLine and a rookie QB should be tailor made for the Browns defense if Woods is willing to change up the coverage so our pass defense is less predictable.



Most football fans can see exactly what you and D4 are posting about our defense...others? Not so much.

I don't want Woods to be fired...I just want him to start acting like a DC with an embarrassment of talent at his fingertips.

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Once all the new moving parts get to know this defense we will see more adjustments. You have to get the basics down first. Some people have no desire to understand that.


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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Once all the new moving parts get to know this defense we will see more adjustments. You have to get the basics down first. Some people have no desire to understand that.


Hey...I hope you are correct.

Last year - when we couldn't stop a TE...played mini-prevent D...and couldn't get off the filed on 3rd down - we were told that we didn't have the horses.

Now we have the horses and the play of the D has been the same as last year...while running the same no-adjustment D.

Most people have the desire to see that change.

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I do as well. I just didn't expect to see a huge transformation this early in the season. Considering the circumstances I expected it to take some time.

I have no way of knowing if I'll turn out to be right or not. I just find my approach pretty realistic.


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j/c

I'm impartial regarding the status of Coach Woods. But since folks are discussing moving on from him, I thought of Jim Leonhard. His coaching career, close on the heels of his playing career, has been very impressive, and I have to wonder if he might be a consideration IF there is a move.


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I don't want to move on from Woods. I want this to work. Stefanski is smart; he will get the most out of our coordinators.

IF we do have to move on from him, however, I want someone that can run THIS defense. I don't want another year of growing pains... let the coordinator learn instead of everyone else.


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Indeed. In the past we would hire someone who wants to play a 3-4.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Once all the new moving parts get to know this defense we will see more adjustments. You have to get the basics down first. Some people have no desire to understand that.


Hey...I hope you are correct.

Last year - when we couldn't stop a TE...played mini-prevent D...and couldn't get off the filed on 3rd down - we were told that we didn't have the horses.

Now we have the horses and the play of the D has been the same as last year...while running the same no-adjustment D.

Most people have the desire to see that change.


Now we have the horses and they need time.

By the time they get "time" there will be some injuries and the new excuse will be injuries.

Then we'll get to the end of the year and lose some guys in the off season and the excuse will be again the replacements need time to gel.

This isn't rocket science. Woods isn't getting it done. His best players are underperforming. He doesn't appear to be a great play caller.

Stefanski needs to get this fixed. This is on him. Woods is his guy.

Get it fixed.

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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Once all the new moving parts get to know this defense we will see more adjustments. You have to get the basics down first. Some people have no desire to understand that.


Preach! We all saw it last year with the offense. Why are we expecting something different on defense? Be thankful we have an offense that scores 24+ points. Browns have the time to do this right. Each week we will see a little more and get a little better.

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Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
I don't want to move on from Woods. I want this to work. Stefanski is smart; he will get the most out of our coordinators.

IF we do have to move on from him, however, I want someone that can run THIS defense. I don't want another year of growing pains... let the coordinator learn instead of everyone else.


Here is what I think we all should look at.

Last off season we overhauled the Offense and about mid season during our bye everyone sat down and figured out what worked what didn't and what needed adjustment and the offense we see now was the result.

Fast forward to now and this past off season we overhauled the defense in fact this overhaul was near total, and a hot 2 games in the seed is being planted that we need to move on................

I sorta think it's odd as hell that anyone would even give such a thing a thought after what we just did witness last season..... notallthere

This comment is to the fans and NOT YOU Prpl so don't take it personal.

This isn't a microwave meal this is building something that lasts and works and yup that takes time.

I think some people should just shut up their showing everyone not that they are smart but they are dumb, and worst of all they don't seem to have learned anything from last seasons offense.

Learn to trust someone not named you and shut up and let them do what needs doing.


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Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
IF we do have to move on from him, however, I want someone that can run THIS defense. I don't want another year of growing pains... let the coordinator learn instead of everyone else.
Part of why I posted the above is that I was watching the ND/Wisc game today, and the announcers were describing the defense Leonhard had built, and heard things like 'relies on the front 4 for pass rush,' and 'wants a defensive backfield with speed.'


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Originally Posted By: W84NxtYrAgain
Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
IF we do have to move on from him, however, I want someone that can run THIS defense. I don't want another year of growing pains... let the coordinator learn instead of everyone else.
Part of why I posted the above is that I was watching the ND/Wisc game today, and the announcers were describing the defense Leonhard had built, and heard things like 'relies on the front 4 for pass rush,' and 'wants a defensive backfield with speed.'


He could be a good choice. Leonard was a pretty average pro at best but stuck around because he always managed to get in the right spot, which means he understood the D and what the O was trying to do.

The perfect credentials to become a solid coach. When you look at most coaches in any sport, few were really good players, at least at the pro level.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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Sorry but you must blitz rookie QBS I don't care how much was invested in the DL...you beat rookies by blitzing them!


bring in a BEAST of a TE and a DT then BPA in the draft....team gets healthy we should be good - Prayers for a positive surgery for Baker. Time for the draft again.
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Originally Posted By: eotab
Sorry but you must blitz rookie QBS I don't care how much was invested in the DL...you beat rookies by blitzing them!



EO..we agree, blitzing the QB should be a goal but understanding that Fields does have the ability to make plays on his own..he is a good runner.

That means that Woods will need to emphasis 'gap integrity' and have one or two LBs and or safeties mirror Fields so he doesn't burn our defense by pulling the ball down and running.

Look for the Bears to test the Browns run defense and if successful, it should help the Bears passing game. The Browns defense will need to pick up their level of play and that includes the DC who is making the defensive play calls.

The Bears look to be a good match up for the Browns and hopefully we are prepared.




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Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Indeed. In the past we would hire someone who wants to play a 3-4.


I'm not suggesting we fire Woods. Our current HC and FO are way too smart for such a ridiculous knee-jerk.

But if we did, it would HAVE to be an in-house hire. We have the personnel in place. If firing a coach early in the season is the worst thing we could do, hiring someone that would have us blow up the d-side of the roster is the "hold my beer" move.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Indeed. In the past we would hire someone who wants to play a 3-4.


I'm not suggesting we fire Woods. Our current HC and FO are way too smart for such a ridiculous knee-jerk.

But if we did, it would HAVE to be an in-house hire. We have the personnel in place. If firing a coach early in the season is the worst thing we could do, hiring someone that would have us blow up the d-side of the roster is the "hold my beer" move.


And we have fans already in a hold my beer moment.

Ask yourself this question what did we do last off season on the offensive side of the ball. Then go ahead just for giggles ask yourself what we did this past offseason on the defense.

Then to really make yourself fall down laughing ask yourself how long did it take for the offense to come around and be what it is now. Then when you really want to get maybe the best belly laugh ever ask yourself how far along are we with this defense?

And if that wasn't funny enough you'll split your sides wide open when you figure it all out and realize how silly some of you sound......And you'll never wonder why people just won't listen to you maybe EVER again for the final laugh.

Sickening and a window into why coaches and teams should NEVER EVER listen to the press of their own fans. And if some of you are really smart I mean really really smart don't EVER listen to yourself, you aren't to be trusted.

If you can't learn from our most recent experience with overhauls then when or how can you ever be trusted even by yourself...


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I don't think anyone is clamoring to fire Woods. But they need to get it figured out.

And the offensive comparison to last year is a poor one. Outside of week 1 and the Pittsburgh game, the offense was solid. Baker was throwing too many picks, but they moved the ball, the running game was incredible, and you could see signs they were on the right track.

People are confusing Baker getting comfortable win the offense around mid-season with the entire offense getting comfortable. That was never the case.

Now here we have a defense that has shown really nothing in two weeks. Situational football appears to be a concern. All-pro caliber players are performing poorly. This is completely different than the offense last year. This is more problematic.

Wood needs help. That's on Stefanski to figure that part out.

And I'll also leave with this. The AFC has never been more wide open. Kansas City looks vulnerable to me. Their defense is awful. The AFC North has never been more wide open. Baltimore's injuries are astounding, and Pitt is likely going nowhere as it looks like Ben is done. This team doesn't have time for Woods to go through growing pains. They need to accelerate that process quickly.

Get it fixed. This isn't a gelling issue. This is a Woods issue. Stefanski needs to figure out how to get him on the right track.

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It's not a Woods issue it's a fan issue where they think they know something they don't. And when they have it shown to them they don't know enough to just shut up, and go away.


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If this performance doesn't shut some of you up nothing ever will.

For all your cleverness you just can't accept that these things take time. Today it shows everyone what is possible running Joe woods defense, now please do us all a favor put your pitch forks, tar, and feathers away and enjoy what likely is the best football team any of you have ever laid your eyes on.

Stop thinking you are smarter then the people who get paid for this stuff and enjoy be supportive stand with this team and stop with this nonsense about firings and getting rid of coaches and players and all that crap and enjoy this team.

The idea isn't to peek week 3 either BTW.


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The D took a nice step today but there wasn't much of a threat on the opposite side.


No really, I care about your feelings. rolleyes

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So two games isn't enough to say it isn't working but one game is enough to say it will be awesome?

I think we need to see more. We had a great day against a poor offensive line and rookie QB... this is what SHOULD happen.

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No we are just here to condemn before it even has a chance so now that you have made the fool of yourself, how do you like you're crow?


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Slow the rhetoric a little. Yes, it was a poor OLine and a rookie QB, and an Ohio State QB at that, but, this was still an EXCEPTIONAL result well above and beyond what "SHOULD" happen.

There are a ton of rookie QBs every year, and many are behind bad lines, and many, many times they've actually been playing for Cleveland, and yet this is the most in a single game since like 2015 and I think the most by a Browns team since like '84.

It was one hell of a performance and it speaks to our talent level, the opponent's poor offense, our coaching, and our scheme.
The very inverse of your statement holds just as true as the one you made... if one or two games is enough to question the scheme and the coach, then one record-setting performance is enough to validate it.

Like always, folks need to stay away from the extremes.
We've now seen what can happen in this defense when the guys aren't in sync, and we've seen the pipedream model of what it can be when everything falls into place perfectly. Clearly, the rest of the season won't be like this, but we now have validation that things aren't as bad as folks were saying and the sky isn't falling.


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... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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There is no crow what so ever.

The D showed up against a bad offense with a rookie QB. THE SHOULD HAVE SHOWN WELL.

I have concerns that the scheme is going to be something that holds us back. Today it did not, and since it was one game you are cawing like we won a super bowl.

It is a work in progress, and I still have concerns. I do hope that next week we can play a more competent offense well and get off the field on third down.

Don't pat yourself on the back too quickly, you might break an arm.

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I am willing to shut up and watch and give it a chance which a host of big mouth no nothing fools who have chased every chance we ever had at pulling this thing together out of town before it ever had a chance to show what it could have been had the press and the fans given it a proper chance. So yeah you fools get crow today and you have earned it.

Warm or Cold.


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Oh the D is a long way from being a finished product still. However, a game like this one against the Bears is a pure confidence builder for players and coaches alike. And this D needed that shot in the arm for the next step. Now they need to get better and more consistent with pressures.


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Oh and I am sure you feel you gave it a chance I mean the Browns were 1-1 and should have been 2-0 after a near complete overhaul 2 games is more then enough time to turn the corner. Do you all realize how silly you all sound.

Just to continue you throw in he was a rookie and they have a bad O Line and bla bla bla...Do you at all hear yourself?

So if 2 is enough to can people then 1 is enough to serve you your crow. Again warm or cold?????


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You can stuff your fool comment up your backside.

Second post calling people a fool. Make you feel like a real man to sit behind a keyboard and call people fools?

"wait and see wait and see!!!" <=-- not going your way
"One game means we are the gods of football" <=-- went your way.

Wait and see, and if you don't believe there are still concerns with this defense you are NOT paying attention.

Frankly I am thrilled the played as well as they did against an offense the SHOULD have played well against.

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STUD! Great game for JOK!



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Quote:
If this performance doesn't shut some of you up nothing ever will.


Ok, ok. Hold your horses.

I, for one, have said this defense needs time to come together before people instantly started writing it off after two weeks.

But let's be real here for a moment and address to key points:

1. Chicago's OL sucks.
2. Justin Fields was starting in his first NFL game.... on the road.

If it was an average QB with an average OL, I would be right there with you.

I do think this defense has the makings of being rather dominant when healthy. Today's game and performance is not a "flag planted in the ground" rebuttal to the prior concerns, IMO.


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Wu, I like that moniker better than JOK, had a very solid game today. That play from your embedded tweet was exceptional. He took on a 300LB lineman, shed the block, and made a great stop.


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Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie
Quote:
If this performance doesn't shut some of you up nothing ever will.


Ok, ok. Hold your horses.

I, for one, have said this defense needs time to come together before people instantly started writing it off after two weeks.

But let's be real here for a moment and address to key points:

1. Chicago's OL sucks.
2. Justin Fields was starting in his first NFL game.... on the road.

If it was an average QB with an average OL, I would be right there with you.

I do think this defense has the makings of being rather dominant when healthy. Today's game and performance is not a "flag planted in the ground" rebuttal to the prior concerns, IMO.


I think the story is being re-written here, but what I saw and read it was Woods needs to go up to and including some players. I think that if you can make the Assumption that was made by fools that after 2 games we could fire a coach then it's just as easy after a unbelievable performance against a decent Bears team that the Browns defense has arrived after 1 game. And as bad as they are I mean we are ready to fire the coach they dominated them they didn't just beat them.

But lets go back and see how the fools looked at this after 2 games. Last season prior to it's start we re tooled the offense and about mid season in fact right at mid season the staff sat down and did an assessment and tossed some plays tweaked others and ditched others and from there this offense has become great lets just say that I don't think anyone is going to stop them but that's me. Using the same logic and in keeping with the idea that it takes time that was after 8 games.

So what do we do this off season we retool the defense and after 2 games we should fire the coach that was the theory, it was as if nobody learned anything from just last year isn't it. That is where the fool comes along and disregards what they should know and floats the idea that after 2 games we should send our DC packing???? I say fool cause only a fool would even entertain the idea.

Worse still IMO we finally have a staff that is really really good led by a HC that has the respect of the entire league and he has placed his faith in this man, and along come a flock of fools who think they are smarter then all of these people and they start with the lets fire people crap that has been the downfall of this franchise and team for decades. It sickens me............And I think it should sicken us all...

I have no way of knowing nor do they how things will turn out for this team. I say Lombardi but hey thats me I am a fan a very happy fan that is tired from decades of losing and I DO NOT WANT a bunch of fools side railing any of it while they serve up their special brand of stupid.


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