DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2021 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 14 Cardinals 37 What I saw Arizona Cardinals

In regards to the TEs … Hooper might as well not be on the team. He is a shell of himself from his ATL days. I even forget he’s on the team most Sundays.

Our offense just seems different … not as effective PA, not as effective keeping the D off balance

injuries aside, what i saw is that stefanski completely gets away from our identity just because of injuries.

we're still a run first team. the whole OTA's and training camp, we built our identity around that. yes, i get we got two backup OTs, but that shouldnt change our identity to run the football, especially since when we did decide to run, we got decent results.

Stefanski and the Woods seem to outsmart themselves every week instead of sticking to our identity and making adjustments around that week to week.

Baker....look man even before the injury in the third/4th quarter, he was missing guys high and wide again. that interception was on nobody else but baker. the two fumbles was on him as well.

i tried to defend woods but man come on. i get it; thats D hop, Green, and Kirk out there. but damn, we revamped our secondary to stop groups like this. blitz, and trust our DBs to cover. we ran way too much zone, which is the exact opposite of what you want to run against a group like that. make Murray run and put his body in harms way to get a 1st, but they just completely allowed Murry to do whatever he wanted in the passing game.

Give this defense to the old, run of the mill D coordinator (Williams, Rex Ryan, etc) and they’re way better than what we currently have

I think, moreso than a running team... we are a trenches team. Our play only goes where the big boys (on both sides) take us. Beat up Oline means we struggle a little to run AND get our QB killed. If we don't get the sack or QB hit, we're probably giving up a long pass.

This seems to be the case despite our best efforts of adding a whole mess of talent to our group of pass-catchers and secondary.


I dunno... just following a train of thought as the second cup of coffee takes hold.

This is true - as is the fact that other QB's miss multiple throws to wide open receivers and still get love - while Baker can be chastised by 'fans' when he has over an 80% completion rate in games we win and still get labelled average because he didn't do this or that or score 50 points because the D gave up 47 .... Lamar beat the Chargers with a 19/27 and two interceptions -- and "everyone" says he's a franchise QB. Their Defense gave up SIX POINTS. . . . Baker goes 23/32 with two TD versus the Chargers and the team gives up 47 and Baker is a bum.

Baker had a stinker of a game versus the Vikings. Possibly his worst game as a Brown despite the lack of interceptions - he's missed open receivers and he's possibly been sacked when he could have thrown the ball.... the taking the sack thing is probably overblown as a hangover from the Freddie season when Baker undoubtedly ran into sacks and was the cause of many of his pressures/sacks. Anyone watching the games has to wonder what is going on because we all saw elite arm talent in year 1. We saw garbage in year 2 - pick your reason - and then we saw top 10 talent in the last 9 or 10 games last year. Maybe better than that. So what is the problem?

I do not buy that "teams have tape now" which is what we heard in year 2 when it was the Freddie nightmare. I do buy that Baker doesn't go through progressions as fast as the best QB's in the NFL. I do buy that the injury is causing him more issues than he or anyone will admit to. . . . I don't know what the answer is - but I do feel like I'd love to see Van Pelt call a game and for the D to hold a good team to less than 24 points and remove some of the pressure of every first half drive by our opponents end in points.

I wanted to smash Ski in the face when we didn’t take the easy FG, when we were down 7-0.
What analytics fails to take into account is the emotional swing - on both sides - when you go for it on fourth down and fail, when the easy three is there.

Start of second half: right after the Hail Mary, our D gets a stop to start the second half, and then the turnovers start. On the INT, I believe Baker believed Higgins was gonna sit there instead of going further inside.

Either way, another turnover. Can’t happen. I can blame injuries in part for our offensive woes, but our D is relatively healthy and we got gashed again.
At least DPJ had a game, finally.

I dunno..... we have to beat Denver on Thursday.

I am as frustrated as any Browns fan right now but I really believe it is the injuries that are at the root of the problem. I think our D scheme can be tinkered with a bit but to me it's all the injuries. We can't play to our potential with guys hurt and in and out of the lineup. It's even affecting how KS is calling plays. The talent is still there. Our players didn't suddenly forget how to play and our coaches forget how to coach. The ship will right itself when and if we get healthy. JMO. I will add what a shame if this season goes down the tubes because of injuries with all the talent we have. This has to be the most talent I've seen on any Browns team since I became a fan in 1967. I said before the season began that if we stay healthy we can win and go far in the playoffs. So far my worst fears have come true.

Its pretty evident the Browns cant beat a upper echelon
QB. Yeah they beat the Mills and Fields of the NFL

The Browns snuck up on the NFL last year.
Im.seeing.a defense that isnt coming up with TOs
And giving the offense short fields.
Baker had that luxury last year. Now his limited
Skill set is showing up when asked to execute
75 yd drives over and over.

The Cards really exposed the Browns communication
Issues on defense.
Yeah the Browns have injuries.
So do the Ravens. Its not affecting their 5 and 1 start

Yep, we can’t beat the big boys. For AZ to come out in a 6-2 and basically say “beat us Baker’ is alarming IMO. He’s the #1 overall pick in his 4th year

Meh, they had to stop the run for their QB to be on the field more. This is why they came out in 6-2. Honestly, if we had Chubb and Hunt healthy yesterday, we would probably be talking about a much different game.

Do you know why it doesn't affect the Ravens that much? Because the Ravens are a winning organization. They KNOW they can overcome. We still are not a winning organization. We have never Overcome any adversity. Until we do we will be what we've been. If we could have somehow won the game yesterday it would have put us way ahead of what we've been. When we had a chance to make a statement we didn't. We had a golden opportunity in the KC game and we folded. Same last week. When we get the chance to prove it's different now we become the same old Browns. We have another chance to do something this week against a team that almost always beats us. Let's see what happens.

We have gone for it on 4th down more than any team in the NFL.. 15 times. We have a below average success rate of 40% and that's considering that most teams only go for it bad down and distance end of game situations when they have to. In the first half in the red zone, when it is totally unnecessary to go for it, we are 0 for 5. I don't care what the big picture NFL analytics say you should do, our own analytics data says we should stop doing that. And I completely agree with you that he doesn't seem to be taking into account the emotional let down we get from driving the length of the field and getting no points and the emotional burst the other team gets from stopping us with no points. We overcame it against the Bears and the Vikings... it cost us dearly against the Chargers and, all things being equal, completely changed the way we had to play the 4th quarter.. and who knows how it emotionally changed things against the Cardinals though I think we were destined to lose that one anyway... Regardless, we need to start taking the points early in games. And I won't even get into what I think of his typical play selection on 4th and 3 or 4 inside the redzone... the Cardinals played it as if they were 100% sure they knew what was coming... and they were right.

For the second week in a row I saw Remember The Titans, except without the guy guy coach that threatened the officials if they didn't call a fair game.

Sad part is we probably would've lost this one anyways due to so many injuries.

I think the worst part of it is that nobody except Browns (and sometimes Lions/Saints) fans will even look at the truth and see how unlucky and cheated we are. They'll say something like "One play doesn't decide the game!" when a ref makes a bad call, oh yeah, what about 6-7 bad calls all on 3rd or 4th down? That doesn't have ANY effect?

Or they'll say "Every team has injuries!", oh yeah, is every team playing with their 4th and 5th string OTs? 4th string WRs? Injued QB? 2 superstar RBs both hurt? I mean I wish that was the end of the list but as we all know there's more.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills and that only Browns fans can see through the Matrix lol, give me that Blue Pill please!

I really don't want to believe it but Cleveland might be cursed after all. Sunday is just sad day. Even last year when we made a magical run and the refs took it away with the no call on the helmet-to-helmet on Higgins vs KC.

I want to get that feeling back when I was <30 years old, and the cameras were blurry and the phantom fumble, bottlegate, the force out, Zeus getting blinded, etc etc etc hadn't happened yet. Good lord I'd be here all day if I listed every time the refs ripped us off or seemingly the universe itself screwed us.

I hate being mr negative, but like, what positive is there? Every time we turn a corner we get hit by a bus.

Like it or not, agree or do not, this team needs to re-think our offense and defense as called. We are having analytics failure; perhaps it is because of how we measure it, how we interpret it, how we apply it or somesuch. But this fourth down failure stat is telling in itself. Stop it.

We are predictable, and we are losing way too often. Injuries abound and I am not ignoring that. But we are failing to be aggressive in offense and on defensive scheming. Wrong people, wrong attack, wrong results. Connect our dots. Injuries prevent coaches from doing everything that they want; but they also require coaches try to compensate with pressure and risks and possibly different players and configurations. And adjustments. Have not seen much in that last. I am not qualified to break down the stuff I am seeing into package and such; I am a fan. But I am a fan who can look at scores and know what I am not seeing happen well, and especially lack of change and lack of improvement. Some folks should be kept off the field who are failing us in the clutch regularly. Roll the dice with the lionhearts. Better teams are beating us because they play harder, way harder, they play hard enough to win.
We have not lately.

Surprised no one has mentioned what Conner's did with ball in his hands .. I am confused by so many things right now ... I believe it is common knowledge that Baker is wildly accurate and dangerous ( as a passer ) when he rolls out ; Yet Ski refuses to play with it ? .. The Haslam's relly need to call a come to Jesus meeting during the by week and talk to Berry and Ski about Woods if nothing else ..

Every Qb has bad games and horrible throws.

You know what lamar has that baker doesn’t? Division titles and an MVP.

Why is lamar improving every single year and baker isn’t? Why is joe burrow improving and baker isn’t? Why is josh Allen improving and baker isn’t? Why is kyler Murray improving and baker isn’t?

At some point, you need to be honest with yourself. There’s a great argument to be made that baker’s already at his ceiling.

I saw a team take away lamars run game, yet he torched them for over 400 yards threw the air. The so called RB playing QB. Allen IS the run game, and yet doesn’t have a problem getting his beat receiver the ball and win division titles.

I’m gettin tired of baker apologist. If we win, it’s cause of baker. If we lose, it’s because of everyone else.

Good point on the orbit play with Felton. That ain’t working

funny thing is, Hill was our highest rated corner and OBJ the highest rated receiver Sunday

OBJ graded out higher than DPJ?

Well Hill had an excellent resume as a slot corner when we signed him ; what happened ? JJ 111 was a pro bowl type Safety when we signed him ; what happened. Ward , Williams , Newsome ' man up corners , not so much zone guys .. I hope Berry considers spending some Draft capitol on LB's ..

Hudson showed he wasn't anywhere near ready to play at the NFL level against the number two's in Pre Season... That he can't hold up should come as no surprise to anyone .. OBJ may be a great WR but he and Cleveland just don't click for what ever reason. Ski confuses me with the use of TE's during the game .. Why Felton isn't getting more touch's is a head scratcher . Not rolling out Baker a lot more is a head scratcher.

They really need to reorganize during the bye .. PS: I still have a ton of faith in Ski and Baker .. Round hole meat square peg must be in the water in Northeast
Ohio..

PSS : What did anyone see on the roughing the passer call on Joe Jackson ( think it was him ) ?

Rashard Higgins was the intended target on this play. Robert Alford is the DB on the Cardinals that made the interception.

Looked like Baker just overthrew Higgins.

You make great points but I think in terms of whether or not he's reached his ceiling I think there's an argument to be made that he's still not playing to his strengths. I think Baker is kind of like my daughters little Fiat. It has a Sport mode. Right now Baker is playing in your normal, controlled, safe driver mode. He needs to be in Sport mode. I'm not saying we need to run no huddle or anything like that, but Ski's having him play at a tempo slower than what is natural for him. IMO Baker is at his best when he drops back, plants, and throws but when he does that then people criticize him for being a 1 read QB... smh.

A complete butt whoopin in every faucet of the game, there were no bright spots Sunday. NONE and we suffered more devastating injuries to boot!

JJ3 once again was invisible except for getting trucked by Hop at the goal line, nice tackle JJ. The fact 2 or 3 other tackles were missed before u were trucked is nothing to hang your hat on, you got trucked by Hop who all ready had his momentum slowed by the initial hit at the goal line.

Hunt looked like he shouldn’t have been out there, he was a shell of himself from the first snap, just an awful decision to play him.

Bake had some atrocious passes before he aggravated his injury. The pass to Higgins sums up bad Bake all in one play, it was high and behind him, PITIFUL.

Oh wait my bad, DPJ showed up, sorry about that DPJ, u weren’t part of the clown show.

Kev once again took3 off the board, he can stick his analytics up his ass at this point!

It was the return of the GRIEVELAND FROWNS and with the injuries piling up, Thursday could be worse!

Bake should sit so he can be as healed as possible for our next game and hopefully we’ll get some of the others back, especially Wills and Conklin and I could CARE LESS WHAT BAKE WANTS, Kev needs to do what’s right for this football team and MAYBE we can salvage a playoff spot. END OF STORY!

Yeah DPJ was maybe the only guy who showed up from my recollection. Maybe Clowney too

What makes me angry is the cushion AND the miscommunication. It’s one thing to be aggressive and get toasted. It’s another to be passive and get toasted.

I think the coverage lapses are on the safeties biting on an underneath route … it’s not acceptable but I don’t think its a communication issue it’s the safeties having brain farts and biting on underneath routes …

JJ3 has been a major dissapointment so far and I would guess it’s on Wood’sfor misusing him like he does our corners …

Could be just brain farts that are causing it. Could be that they don't trust our CBs to make the plays they should. Could also be that they are gambling to make the big play INT rather than filling their assignment.

I think it's just been brain farts and guys getting confused on their assignments. They're still thinking too much and far, far from the place where they a.) just react instinctively and b.) react correctly

I may be missing something, but it seems to me like Higgy is our most reliable dude (and DPJ isn’t far off). Having those two and Landry should be sufficient IMO