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All Pro
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I wouldnt go that far ddubia  Warning, this is long lol Honestly, my take on Romeo is this; he does a great job at keering the team playing as a TEAM. As far as managing players as men, he is second to none. He seems to be a very trusting/loyal guy, that has gotten him into some trouble (Carthon, Grantham maybe). He trusts the guys he hired to do their jobs. Which is an admirable trait when they are getting it done. Problem is they weren't/aren't. Not all of this is on Romeo, not much of it as far as I'm concerned. He was hired so late that most decent assistants were already hired. Where his downfall is (at least this year) is not taking a more proactive role with the defense. As evidenced by his time in NE, he can coach D. I would think he could give Grantham some "advice" with schemes and stuff, it would help immensely. I almost wonder if Grantham does the planning during the week, with RAC doing the halftime adjustments. The past 3 weeks our D has been at least respectable in the 2nd half. I'm sure he gives input to Chud too, as far as "they tend to do this, attacking here could work." Not that it is ALOT of input, but theres gotta be some there. While I think that Savage had alot of pull in Chud's hiring, I don't think he woulda been hired without RAC's approval. I think Romeo can do it, we are winning games, if he takes a more active role on D...I'll honestly believe he gets it.
"I don't remember any of my catches. I remember the drops." - Kellen Winslow II
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Ok, trying to untangle it all in my pointy-head.
Just to clarify, not debate, I always blamed MO for the offensive problems, not RAC. I blamed RAC for the perceived mistakes he made all on his own. SO, Chud comes in, Opie buys him a line, and while knowing that RAC didn't meddle in the offense, I believe it to be that the offense is what's winning games for us (God knows it ain't the defense, hehe), so most of the credit goes to people other than RAC.
*PHEW*
As the head coach, he deserves some of the credit for the wins. As the head coach, he deserved some of the blame for the losses. Since I never blamed him for the offensive failures in the past, I feel as though I can, with a clear concience, give the offensive kudo's to Chud and Opie.
See? 
That isn't trying to have it both ways. It goes back to my belief that I'm not judging RAC on wins and losses, but on other things.
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As it did end, for the life of me, I can't understand why the thinking is by so many that RAC had nothing to do with, or no say in the matter of MO's departure. Is it because it didn't happen sooner? That just because it didn't happen sooner that RAC did not have the desire or couldn't pull the trigger so it had to be pulled for him?
By this juncture, with all the positives going on with our team (when was the last time we could say THAT?  ) I think it's impossible to find the article(s), but I specifically recall something that came out saying RAC was standing by MO when others in the organization were interested in setting him free (which is the nice way of putting it, hehe). Someone with a better memory than my own would have to chime in to back my statement. I felt very strongly that RAC was far too loyal to his own guys (perhaps another article?) and to slow to react. Hence the things I'm saying. Again, it'd take others who remember this to chime in.
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It has been said that he makes many game-time errors but I believe most of that is after-the-fact opinion as I rack my brains trying to think of an instance where he gave away a time-out we later desparately needed, mismanaged the clock in such a manner to have cost us a win, or any other mistake that laid a defeat on the fault of his decision to do this or not do that.
On one hand, I agree that it's all after-the-fact judgements. However, on the other, how else can we judge?  Isn't everything in life judged after the fact? Isn't that how we learn from our mistakes? That "hindsight is 20/20" card is a doosey, as it's an appropriate cliche, but it's also a convenient excuse. Again, trying to go back over the last 2+ seasons and speak of a specific incident is hard, yet the impressions that those instances left on me are strong. I recall the discussions, if not the specific incident inperticular. It's akin to blasting MO two years ago for the thrashing he put on Frye when he kept emptying the backfield in a spread offense against the Steelers, allowing them to hammer Frye over and over and over again. Can I recall any one single play? No, but I remember calling it a mistake, and I still have the feelings and impressions that it left on me.
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Over and over we hear from fans how RAC has no skills in managing his own coaches, (the current one being Grantham), and again, like with his players, he lacks the balls to take charge and make changes.
Right now it is being suggested that he doesn't even realize that the defense sucks and is making no moves to rectify the situation. That he is merely allowing it to go unchecked because he doen't know what to do or is afraid to communicate his idea to his DC.
Hmmmm.........I've made no such claim, so I can't speak of it. The only thing I can speak to is a situation where he stuck by guys like Mo far too long. I have to assume that he took measures to try and rectify the coaches while they were still under him, even if embattled. Perhaps those feelings stem from how Coates was loyal to Mo and proved to be a negative lockerroom influence? Hard for me to say.
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He still takes a ton of crap for starting Charlie Frye over DA while all through training camp the media, (who confided to us that the organization wanted DA to win the job), told us over and over that DA was just not getting it done and we saw for ourselves, with our own eyes that he was not getting it done. Who among us saw DA in the preseason and come to the conclusion that he would explode into the gun slinger he has currently become? Yet, RAC is called an idiot for naming Frye the starter "for that game". RAC said it was only for one game at a time when he did it. Did no one pick up on that?
Here comes that "hindsite is 20/20" again, hehehe, but also why it's not an excuse one way or another (er.....yeah, you'll get it in a moment *L*).
It's easy to now say that Anderson should have been named the starter. I have said it myself, BUT not because of his results, but because I learned that Chud favored him over Frye. Since RAC has allowed his OC to create and run the offense, I felt he should have deferred to Chud's wishes.
See how my twisted (yet upon occasion logical) mind works?  wait....besides that one..... 
I think there's been plenty of evidence to support the theory that RAC doesn't run the O. So I think if his guy (Mo) got fired, he should have yielded to Chud. Chud wanted Anderson, so that's who I thought he should have started. It's pretty much common sense, isn't it? If the new offense calls for vertical throws, shouldn't we put in the guy who's better equiped for the system if neither QB has distinguished themselves?
To me, that was a mistake. It's not judgement based in hindsight because of the results, it's a judgement in hindsight after I learned that the guy running the offense wanted Anderson.
It's a subtle, but vital difference (though maybe only to me? )
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As I said, I don't believe for one minute that any NFL team in the history of the league has ever had a HC who was as incompetent as many claim RAC to be and simply covered for him in every aspect of the organization. How in the hell can a team even be a team with a complete idiot at the controls?
You mean like Butch Davis?  It's not out of our realm of possibility 
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Something stinks in Denmark and it ain't just my underwear.
Why is your undies in Denmark? (Nevermind, I don't want to know!)
I seem to recall that we quietly stripped down RAC as a head coach after his selections failed. You'll never find a quote from Opie saying that (God forbid any GM be stoopid enough to do it!) but it was pretty clearly spelled out over the course of time. I'm of the belief that we brought in someone who wasn't RAC's boy as an OC, and that coach wanted the QB that RAC didn't favor. I think with those two things more likely than unlikely to be the reality that RAC isn't as deserving of the credit as some may wish to bestow upon him.
As I said somewhere in this mess, if he can lead the men on this team, that's good enough for me, but I can't erase the mistakes (too many mistakes, IMHO) just because we've gone 5-3 while beating up on some very defenseless teams. That isn't to say he doesn't deserve some credit, because he does, but like most things around here, I think the voices of opinion tend to say very heavily one way or another based upon blips and coincidences instead of trends and proven history. I didn't make a snap judgement against RAC after just a few weeks, and won't reverse my feelings under the current circumstances. I could be wrong as I've (apparently  ) been when it comes to Anderson, but my experience tells me that it isn't this simple, not by a longshot. My opinion here is that he isn't deserving of all the accolades, and made that opinion known because the author here took the stance that those who wanted him gone were clearly wrong. It's WAY WAY WAY too early to make that snap judgement, when it took much longer to form the previous one
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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1st String
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1st String
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Man I thought about responding to this but it was so long winded and so full of spin that I have to go take a crap! 
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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Dude, you make long posts.  Quote:
SO, Chud comes in, Opie buys him a line, and while knowing that RAC didn't meddle in the offense, I believe it to be that the offense is what's winning games for us (God knows it ain't the defense, hehe), so most of the credit goes to people other than RAC.
While I agree that it's likely RAC doesn't meddle in the offense as in game planning, play calling, etc., I can't believe that he doesn't help in regard to the strengths and weaknesses of the opponent's defenses and probable mismatches. The best defensive mind on the team doesn't help the offense prepare? It wouldn't make sense. And how valuable is his input? Pretty much I'd assume. I will agree that most of that is on Chud and his game plans and play calling. But he is not an island.
The talk that RAC is operationally like Belichick, who lets his coordinators coordinate without micro managing, goes a little too far when assuming that he has absolutely nothing to do with either side of the ball. Or only with the side in which he has held a coaching position. He is a head coach. It's his job and reputation that is on the line based on how well the team performs. A head coach cannot simply set back and hope for the best. He is the guiding force.
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Someone with a better memory than my own would have to chime in to back my statement. I felt very strongly that RAC was far too loyal to his own guys (perhaps another article?) and to slow to react. Hence the things I'm saying. Again, it'd take others who remember this to chime in.
Heck Toad, I don't need other's to chime in. I remember every article. I have a photographic memory. (Or is that pornographic? I forget. ). My point was that even if he is loyal and slow to react in firing one of his coaches, (a trait I like by the way), who says it was not RAC who finally pulled the trigger on MO? I believe there are many assumptions made in these regards, ( i.e. he is loyal to his coaches and slow to fire them, hense, he will never fire an assistant even if it means his own demise). Too much black & white and either/or in the assumptions on RAC.
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... trying to go back over the last 2+ seasons and speak of a specific incident is hard, yet the impressions that those instances left on me are strong. I recall the discussions, if not the specific incident inperticular.
And I wouldn't ask you to do that. It is tough. But my point there is that I can remember no actual harm stemming from any of RAC's mistakes. You and I had a short conversation the other day regarding his challenging the call on K2's near-TD play. I said we didn't need the time-out so risking it was no big deal. You maintained that there was enough time on the clock in a close game that we may well have needed that time-out later and so using it on a gamble was a mistake. I came away agreeing with you, (if I did not post that I apologize; it's good to know when one is wrong), but in the end we didn't need the time-out and won the game.
So, mistake or not, it didn't hurt us at all. Now someday a decision like that may bounce up and bite his ass. But I don't remember any of them having actually done that yet.
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It's easy to now say that Anderson should have been named the starter. I have said it myself, BUT not because of his results, but because I learned that Chud favored him over Frye. Since RAC has allowed his OC to create and run the offense, I felt he should have deferred to Chud's wishes.
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Chud wanted Anderson, so that's who I thought he should have started. It's pretty much common sense, isn't it?
I don't want to look up the articles right now, (I told you I remember all of them), but the media was telling us back in traing camp the the organization wanted DA to win the job. They hoped he would take the opportunity and run with it. That doesn't automatically leave RAC out of that same opinion.
But to name DA the starter when he hadn't done squat and couldn't muster enough moxie to give himself an honest chance doesn't seem all that smart. The one thing Frye had over DA, if nothing else durning camp, was experience. So he got the nod for the first game and the first game only. I think the reason RAC said it was for that game only and he would take them one game at a time is because he was among those in the DA camp but just couldn't bring himself to name him just yet because of his training camp and preseason lack of performance.
To have named DA the starter for the first game given that he did not out perform Frye in camp or preseason is what would not have made sense. And if he did, and if DA stunk it up as he had been doing, what would we be saying about RAC over that decision? Everybody knew Frye gave us the best chance to win while waiting for Quinn. 
I think they all knew DA was the best fit for this system with his big arm and quick release. But I don't think any of them, you and me and all other people included, expected him to play as he has once Frye was out of the mix.
I don't believe for a minute that RAC had Chud and entire organization clammoring for DA to start but he was bull-headed and started Frye anyway. I believed thay all, RAC included, wanted DA to step up but he didn't. I think too many take RAC's positive remarks about Frye over his stay in Cleveland to mean that he was wiling to go to the grave with Charlie as his QB. RAC just isn't one to toss his players under the bus. Especially his QB.
And it sure didn't take RAC long to yank Frye although there are those who will claim that it was not he but someone else making that call as well. Why? Well, because it worked out for the good in the end and we all know that RAC can't make a good decision.
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You mean like Butch Davis?
I don't think anyone was covering for Butch Davis so much as standing back in disbelief of what he was fast becoming. Who in the organization knew how to deal with that? He was spiriling out of control and there was not even one other football man in the organization to step in. Davis had himself set up to answer only to the owner and the owner just had a professional football team dumped in his lap upon his father's death and had no idea what to do about it. Neither did he trust Policy whom was his only advisor.
But now we have a GM, albeit a young one, who spends an extrodinary amount of his valueable time setting up and covering for his head coach so that the latter does not actually have to be one. 
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I seem to recall that we quietly stripped down RAC as a head coach after his selections failed. You'll never find a quote from Opie saying that (God forbid any GM be stoopid enough to do it!) but it was pretty clearly spelled out over the course of time.
I believe he was strongly confronted. I don't believe he was "stripped down as a head coach". I believe RAC had to make concessons. It happens to the best of us. Again, his selections was from the shallow end of the pool so I doubt very much that the FO blamed him for chosing what he did from that bucket of crap as so many believe.
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As I said somewhere in this mess, if he can lead the men on this team, that's good enough for me...
But that not good enough to be a head coach. His duties are far more reaching than that and there's no way in hell, especially in the NFL hell, that a team keeps a head coach who is so incompetent in all other duties that he's been stripped down to "Uncle RAC". It just doesn't happen.
And I said somewhere within my last long-winded post that if he were as incompetent as he is made out to be that his players would see right through that and would not rally with him as some have claimed is his only qualification. The very idea is ludicrous. All those players have played for good coaches. That's a big part of the reason they ended up in the NFL. They would be able to spot a bad coach a mile away. Why would they follow and play hard for a bad coach? In a nutshell: they wouldn't.
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My opinion here is that he isn't deserving of all the accolades, and made that opinion known because the author here took the stance that those who wanted him gone were clearly wrong.
And while I do support RAC, I share your opinion that he isn't deserving of ALL the accolades. He is the head coach. He is the leadership part of the team. It is still a team. So many more things factor into this than just the head coach. You have made a good case for much of it. They win as a team; they lose as a team.
If the Browns would somehow win enough games to earn RAC "Coach of the Year" honors he'd better turn to his team and thank DA for selling his soul to the devil, to Chud for understanding what and offense is and what it's supposed to do, to his vererans for their part in help preparing the younger players, to his playmakers for growing up and beginning to reach their potential and to Savage for bringing in the talent to compete as well as being a partner and sounding board for much of the organizational decisons.
But to leave him out of it, strip him of any real contribution to the team other than "the players like him" is missing out on a lot of what a head coach is responsible for. And for some to proclaim that everyone in the organizaton is covering for him in so many, many ways is just rediculous to the extreme.
RAC is the head coach. He can't do it all. He needs a quality GM who understands talent and is able to bring it in. But if the GM does that then it is percieved around here that the head coach has done nothing. The GM did it.
He needs good assistant coaches behind him. Coaches who understand the game and how to help plan for an opponent. But if his coaches are doing well then it is percieved around there that the head coach has nothing to do with it. The assistants did it.
The way many view the head coach in this town is to disrespect the role that a head coach plays in the success of the team. It is to say that most good coaches really play only a small part in the team's success because, after all, they have a good DC and a good OC and a good GM bringing in the talent. That leaves pretty much nothing for the head coach to do but watch the game like the rest of us.
I think the biggest problem around here is that no one in these parts are used to winning and they don't know how to handle it. Hell, for the first time since our return we have a QB who is actually playing extermely well and the team is winning while we have some constantly nit-picking his every play as though he were losing games for us. (I'm not completely sold on him either. But damn, we're winning games we should win. Oh, wait, it's not him, it's his playmakers making him look good and his OC putting him in a position to succeed. So actually, the QB is doing little to nothing to contribute to our wins.
Just like his Head Coach he has everyone else setting him up and covering for him.
No wait, stop, reverse that.
#gmstrong
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While I agree that it's likely RAC doesn't meddle in the offense as in game planning, play calling, etc., I can't believe that he doesn't help in regard to the strengths and weaknesses of the opponent's defenses and probable mismatches. The best defensive mind on the team doesn't help the offense prepare? It wouldn't make sense. And how valuable is his input? Pretty much I'd assume. I will agree that most of that is on Chud and his game plans and play calling. But he is not an island.
Dub's...I agree...There is NO WAY IN HELL that the single most Defensive Minded EXPERIENCED individual on this team is NOT helping breakdown defenses to help our Offensive game planning...NONE...
It's sounding almost as though those who despise Crennel are just finding yet another reason to slam em'...And him not having a thing to do with the Offensive game plan is as LUDICROUS as Cribbs not having a thing to do with returning kicks...
This ain't a power struggle people...It's not about who's gonna end up right and wrong and pat yourselves on the back...U KNEW...Or SHOULD'VE known we were gonna tear this team down when these guys got here...Especially defensively when going to a 3-4...And Offensively we had youth at QB that we had NO IDEA of...And an OL that was schoolyard caliber...
Pieces are getting in place...Offensively we're starting to reap the benefits and all u can do is continue to slam Crennel...The defensive pieces will be there next year...U CAN BANK THAT ONE...These guys know wtf's goin' on out there...And u can bet they'll hammer the defense this off season as hard as they hammered the OL this past year...
U gotta let this thing play out...
Right now at 5-3 the entire NFL and Media alike are AMAZED at what we've done...But I guess the Head Coach has nuttin' to do with it...
U gotta let this thing play out... 
Go Browns!!!
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Dude, you make long posts.
I know you are but what am .......wait
Out of respect for people who still have eyes that see and minds that think, I'll try to cut to some of the chase, hehe.
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who says it was not RAC who finally pulled the trigger on MO?
A difference of opinion here, but I recall a report that said Opie had to force the hand. Again, it'd take a pornographic memory (sic) to validate that 
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I came away agreeing with you, (if I did not post that I apologize; it's good to know when one is wrong), but in the end we didn't need the time-out and won the game.
You shouldn't ever feel the need to apologize to anyone for anything, especially me. Thanks for the sentiment though. You're right, we didn't need that timeout. No harm no foul. It's tough for me to make a hypothetical when the fact remained that we didn't lose anything by it. Where's imperical evidence when I need it *L*
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I don't want to look up the articles right now, (I told you I remember all of them), but the media was telling us back in traing camp the the organization wanted DA to win the job. They hoped he would take the opportunity and run with it. That doesn't automatically leave RAC out of that same opinion.
I'm glad one of us remembers all of'em, because it sure ain't me, hehe. Having said that, I'm again reminded of something that stated RAC favored Frye. I could be wrong! If so, wrong is wrong, but that's how I remember it, and why I've said some of the things I've said.
(You noting the subtle back-pedal there? )
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I think they all knew DA was the best fit for this system with his big arm and quick release. But I don't think any of them, you and me and all other people included, expected him to play as he has once Frye was out of the mix.
You wound me sir!  I've stated ALL ALONG that DA would be our savior!
NOW you owe me an apology ()
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But that not good enough to be a head coach. His duties are far more reaching than that and there's no way in hell, especially in the NFL hell, that a team keeps a head coach who is so incompetent in all other duties that he's been stripped down to "Uncle RAC". It just doesn't happen.
Good freakin' thing his first name isn't Tom
I probably disagree with that to some degree, maybe because I think RAC has far less to do with how the offense runs (I know we won't agree on that, hehe).
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But to leave him out of it, strip him of any real contribution to the team other than "the players like him" is missing out on a lot of what a head coach is responsible for. And for some to proclaim that everyone in the organizaton is covering for him in so many, many ways is just rediculous to the extreme.
I'd agree wholeheartedly with that. As noted, I don't share that sentiment, as that paints a black-and-white version of things, where "Uncle..." (I can't say it *L*) is truly a puppet-coach. If that were the case, I'd be calling for the entire damned organization to be blown up from top to bottom.
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I think the biggest problem around here is that no one in these parts are used to winning and they don't know how to handle it.
Hmmm............If you'll forgive me for disagreeing, I think if we knew EXACTLY what was going on in that locker room every day, we'd know exactly what RAC is and isn't responsible for. That isn't to say that we as fans don't know how to handle winning, hehe. I think a smaller part of the problem is that even though we are winning, some (including myself, sadly) aren't convinced that the wins make us a "winning team." I know how that statement looks on the surface ( ) but you know what I mean. I think if we manage to beat the Steelers that everything we're doing will feel more firm, and then the entire conversation changes (much the way the conversation changed when DA went out and played well against a pretty decent Seahawks team).
Sorry Dub, that's as short as I can go
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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The truth is ddubia, that with each passing game the list of why RAC isn't a good coach gets shorter and shorter. Now that we are winning and the talent is getting better, he is becoming a good HC. Thats how fans are, they don't have patients, and they really don't have a handle on what is wrong so they reach for the 1st thing they see, and RAC will always be the thing they blame, and the last person they credit. Thats the way fans are. When Marty was here they wanted, Bud, when Bud was here they wanted Bill, when Bill was here they wanted ??? They have always wanted whatever they didn't have. My all time favorite was they wanted Marty fired because we couldn't get to the SB. So we fired Marty, brought in Bud, and guess what we still didn't get to the SB. But threw it all there has been one constant the fans in Cleveland have always wanted the coach they didn't have. And when they got the guy they wanted they wanted someone else, thats just the way it is in Cleveland. Sorry no disrepect intended honestly folks but when do the lights come on? When do fans reach the conclusion that changing coaches seldom leads to the promised land, or at least it never has in my memory in Cleveland. When we as a fan base support the coach, and realize that better players get better results, and make the changes in this area instead of always firing coaches then will do better IMHO. The long and the short is this, we have fired quite a few coaches over time, and we have never gottin what we thought we would get by doing it, lets try firing the players instead, and see if that works, firing the coach hasn't, MAYBE, its time to try something else, do you think???
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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My all time favorite was they wanted Marty fired because we couldn't get to the SB. So we fired Marty, brought in Bud, and guess what we still didn't get to the SB
Thats incorrect or should I call you a liar like you have done to others?
Marty was let go because he felt he could do the HC job and the GM job and the organization didn't think he was good enough to handle both jobs and he was let go or resigned, whichever, so your scenario is off base, big time.
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Legend
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Marty was let go because he felt he could do the HC job and the GM job
Yes, he thought he could do both jobs,,, as we found out later, Marty could NOT do both jobs... anyway, I thought it was reported that he wanted both jobs, Modell said no and then Marty resigned? Wasn't that the situation? Dang, that was a ton of years ago.....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Thats pretty much how I remember it, but it's not like or front office was filled with brain surgeons at that time either, if I remember correctly, one of the first moves made when Marty left was we traded Byner to The skins for Oliphant. so who knows what would have happened if Marty was given the power. I don't think it matters much though, that team was on the tail end of it's window when Marty left, we missed the opportunity with that team.
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Legend
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Our Asst GM was Ernie Accorsi.. pretty good guy if I remember it correctly... Modell considered himself the GM who had final say on anything. he's the guy that traded Byner for Oliphant... Idiot..
I don't agree that that team was at the tail end.. I firmly believe that we would have stayed on top.. the reason was that we had a decent Oline and Dline and some good receivers.. had marty stayed, no doubt some guys would have gone, but others, better than those drafted by Belichick, would have come along... so I really do believe that Modell and Marty were both fools at that moment... and they both screwed the fans.... JMO however.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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That move Byner for Oliphant, put us on the tail end of the window of opportunity for this team. Like you said Modell had the final say (in all matters) and that moved proved how vital Byner was to the team, yes Byner fumbled right before scoring in the 2nd game against Denver in the AFC championship, but if it wasn't for Byner we wouldn't have came back in that game in the first place. Thats what I was saying, that trade killed us and your probably right we could have went a year or two longer but the damage was already done since it seemed after the second consecutive loss in the AFC championship game it seemed like the organization from top to bottem, had a mental breakdown.
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Fletch : Why do people need to read it again? I read it once, and that was good enough First I didn't say everyone I said certain posters need to..and they do...certain people just want to ignore the quotes that are made and just point the finger at one guy..wrong.. DawgStyle44 : I read your post about Grantham and how he is part of the problem... I do agree with it but I think where RAC is at fault with this situation is IF he continues to have TG run the defense and stand idly by while the offense tries to bail us out every game.. I should cool my stance that Todd should be let go, because he needs to be taught how to run the scheme even with a lack of talent..now when that level is upgraded and he fails to utilize it correctly..then he should go buh-bye.. What bugs me is the poor communicator label that's being exposed..thats bad for a defensive coach...and a defensive unit..  PitDAWG If you guys won't admit who's really calling the shots at this juncture, have at it. The writing is on the wall. Mo gets the boot, Chud takes over with Steinbach and a rookie at LT and BAM we're scoring 27 points a game. Yep, it's all RAC!
Only thing needs to be said is this..U have a double standard...if it's wrong it's Rac 's fault..if it's good he had nothing to do with it.. What we know is Phil advises him and has imput...and vise versa..I think until I see otherwise I'll go along with that...and that includes Mo... Rac said Mo came in to him and resigned..well lets say thats true..he heard enough to know better to do that than get the pink slip.. And sure Rac was sticking by him instead of saying U gotta go Mo.. Who said he was faultless? I still know whats eating in U but I'm not revisting it because it's a moot point.. Brown to the Bone : But let me ask you a question, are you saying that our problem isn't talent related? Because I think it is, more so then just well it's the coach Thats one of the reasons to revisit the thread..no where did I say a lack of talent is a huge problem..we all see that.. But the fact is that a lack of fundamentals is a coaching issue.. Guys being out of position (As Rac said) and not being disciplined goes back to whats being taught and them retaining it.. As I put in Eo's thread he was asked why the safeties are getting beat deep..he said they're not staying back.. He said he was going to get more involved..he was goign to talk to Sean Jones and get him to just play and not do too much.. How ironic Jones has played better in the last two weeks.. This is a quote from Brian Russell AFTER he left here.. “I think I learned a whole lot from Romeo, defensively. The way he game planned, the way he is prepared every week and the way he’ll quiz you and make sure you’re on everything every week and understand who the opposing team’s go-to-guy is. Just playing good, smart football every week, I took a lot from his approach and I really carried that with me here and tried to fill some of the younger guys in on how to work and what to look for from week-to With all the quotes in various threads...they point to Rac as having a good mind and being game prepared but something else is wrong and it's a combination of things with Grantham being in the mix..
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But sometimes, I think you and some others try to portray it as that deep.
I don't really think so........................................
I do however believbe that Phil has pretty much put Chud *in charge* of running the O.
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I'd also like to point out that not only does RAC not help his OC, neither does he watch film on the opposing offense, (after all, what does he know about offense?), to help his DC regarding whom to game plan for and how best to stop their attack and their playmakers.
He does none of that.
Well, as a *head coach* ya GOTTA do SOMETHIN' to collect that check!
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And even though he was a special teams coach himself, he does nothing to help his special teams coach prepare for the opposition.
Yes,he is sorta "Chud's little helper" in regards to preperation I would say. Is that how an NFL head coach operates?
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I'm tellin' ya. The guy is worthless. All he does is give press conferences which don't really tell anyone anything.
A bit extreme. But he would make a fine NFL DC.
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On a side note of interest, Phil Savage ties his shoes for him because he's never mastered the art of shoelace knots. The last time he tried it on his own he got his finger stuck in the knot and couldn't get out of his chair for three hours.
Honestly, that's how some of you make him out to be. He just stands there on the sidelins too ignorant to see that he has nothing to do with any of it.
Having "nothing to do with it" and being an NFL head coach who "commands,operates and runs" an NFL team are to total opposites. Two ends of the spectrum. RAC falls somewhere in the middle. Does he help and contribute? Of course he does.
But many feel he isn't operating in a "full head coaching capacity" and has had limitations and constraints put upon him especialy in regards to *running* the O and playcalling/gameplanning on that side of the ball.
And just because RAC can't reach his shoes to tie them, doesn't mean that he doesn't know how.
Once again,tying your shoes and operating an NFL team are opposite ends of the spectrum. And once again I feel RAC falls somewhere in the middle.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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And Pit didn't show up until he found a device to explain away why RAC has no part in the team's improvement. Namely, that everyone else bails out RAC and his incompetence.
Pit didn't "show up" because packing,moving and unpacking with a rod in your spine takes a LOT more time than it did BEFORE getting a rod in your spine thank you very much. Sorry I can't pack,get moved,unpacked and everything hooked up in a day.
I'll try to accommidate you on that next time.
BTW- The assertions that RAC wouldn't be running the O were being stated by me BEFORE my preperations to move. This isn't "some new thing". Jeesh..........
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For some reason the FO keeps RAC on as a head coach even though they have to jump through hoops to make up for his deficiencies. We've got everyone in the organization covering his ass but still, for some odd reason, they keep him here as the head coach.
Timing is everything. I honestly believe if Phil had known how RAC would handle the QB situation and the press during the pre season, he wouldn't have been here. But once you start a season with a head coach, unless you find a *perfect scenario* lame ducks are pointless.
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Many teams in the NFL do this. The head coach is not necessary in todays NFL. His job is nothing more than a figure on the sideline that may soon be replaced by a bobble-headed manikin. The more expensive models will have "action arms" that will signal "TD" for a score and throw down a clipboard when something goes wrong. (Of course, throwing the switch for either of these movements will be handled by one of the coordinators since they have so much free time on their hands).
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That is why having a horribly incompetent head coach can still result in improvement. That and all the other coaches are so much better than all the other coaches that they can do thier own job and still have some time left over to handle situational head coaching duties.
You know better than that. You have leaders who can command a team and fully run both sides of the ball and you have those that can't. Those that CAN are true head coaches. Those who CAN'T are just getting in the way.
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Life is good for RAC. He eats, he sleeps, he gets to watch the game from the sidelines.
And he has his hands tied thank God.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I do however believbe that Phil has pretty much put Chud *in charge* of running the O. And whats so special about that? Thats usually what happens when you have a defensive oriented HC..not rocket science.. Yes,he is sorta "Chud's little helper" in regards to preperation I would say. Is that how an NFL head coach operates?
No thats just how your mind operates  But many feel he isn't operating in a "full head coaching capacity" and has had limitations and constraints put upon him especialy in regards to *running* the O and playcalling/gameplanning on that side of the ball.JMHO
SO because he has a OC running the offense ..he's isn't operating in full capacity? Great logic considering the guy he came out from lets his coordinators call the shots..or maybe Rac could be like Billick-I-think -I know -offense ...who doesn't get it after all these years..? Oh I'm sure you think Rac is a figure head but sorry I don't think that way .. The guy has needed help but what coach hasn't had to at some point early on?
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Nothing is "eating me" ATTACK. If RAC will just get his ass in gear and help Carthon create a situation where our D runs a little better, I'm fine with it. Chud and Phil have worked wonders with the O. Now if RAC can bring the D around, we're fine! Other than film, RAC needs to remain a *non issue* on O. It's working out great that way! You guys just keep overlooking the obvious................. RAC didn't come here with a pedigree on O. That wasn't his "claim to fame". His claim to fame was on D. Our O looks fine and our D looks confused................. 2+2=3??????? It's only obvious.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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If RAC will just get his ass in gear and help Carthon create a situation where our D runs a little better, I'm fine with it.
WHAT? RAC didn't come here with a pedigree on O. That wasn't his "claim to fame". His claim to fame was on D. Our O looks fine and our D looks confused.................
2+2=3???????
Thats how U do math..me I look for why the D has been confused..and I found out why..AND I POSTED those findings..so keep doing your space-math
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Great logic considering the guy he came out from lets his coordinators call the shots..or maybe Rac could be like Billick-I-think -I know -offense ...who doesn't get it after all these years..?
And at what point, how bad, how long, should a head coach stand back and let his DC continue to struggle and permit our D look horid before he does step up to the plate and intervine? Or are you implying that watching this D look so putrid for half of the season is how NFL head coaches should operate?
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Oh I'm sure you think Rac is a figure head but sorry I don't think that way ..
The guy has needed help but what coach hasn't had to at some point early on?
Not *purely* a figure head, to but to a certain extent, yes. At least in regards to the O. And if he IS being a figure head on the D side? Considering how poorly they've played, that wouldn't be a good thing.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I think he meant Grantham and put Carthon in his place, at least thats what I figure, if not I am just as confused as you.
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I don't need to read a book on physics to do basic addition. I've seen how people wish to cloud, rationalisde, and excuse obvious flaws. They take a simple addition problem and attempt to cloud the waters with complicated excuses. Keep em'. They're all yours.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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And at what point, how bad, how long, should a head coach stand back and let his DC continue to struggle and permit our D look horid before he does step up to the plate and intervine? Or are you implying that watching this D look so putrid for half of the season is how NFL head coaches should operate?
Here U go again...apparently he has gotten more involved..the things that were happening early on aren't happening now..especially the safeties... I noticed Jones playing more like himself and out rookie CB gaining experience... As I said it's just isn't the DC but also a lack of talent which plays into it.. Some of this can't be fixed till offseason..but the scheme crap seems to have been corrected... Players wanted him to get more involved and he has and it's shown..the last several weeks those plays that were killing us down the middle with the TE's hasn't been a factor..safeties being up too much has been fixed.. the run D is also improving to a degree, but the Steeler game will show that. If Rac is a unprepared HC and is confused why would Russell say what he said and why would certain players want him to get more involved? I'm sure you'll have some LOGICAL response I've seen how people wish to cloud, rationalisde, and excuse obvious flaws. They take a simple addition problem and attempt to cloud the waters with complicated excuses. Keep em'. They're all yours.
Your math is ..it's wrong sio it's Racs fault..thats not math thats a rush to judgement..and U've rode that horse ever since preseason.. Sounds like you're annoyed that I and some other don't just take things at face value and shoot from the hip like you're doing.... Unlike U ..when I find out something new that shed light on a problem I look into it not disregard it and say it can't be part of the overrall problem.. Take the blinders and your bias out and you'll reason better.. I see U and some others play this Rac isn't bright and blame him EVEN when things are shown otherwise..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 11/08/07 11:52 AM.
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So why is that after week 1 it was ALL RAC's fault when we did bad? Now that we see improvement RAC has NOTHING to do with it?
He has a LOT to do with it!
He understands that the O is not his to run and going with the flow. Things are going well because he's not "overstepping his bounds" and working within himself. That's a fine thing.
See, ATTACK made a very sound point. Newer head coaches need help. They can't do it all. By grasping that and allowing that help to run the O, is exactly the type of thing RAC needed to do.
Overseeing the operation and making sure things don't go to hell in a handbag seems to be working pretty well so far. Accept on the side of the ball where he was taughted as such an expert.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I don't have a *problem* with how anyone thinks ATTACK. It seems people have far more of an issue about me expecting accountability and being a results orientated person than anything. If I pay a guy to do a job, I expect a job well done in return. You see, when it comes to politics, everyone talks about "personal responsibility". But when it comes to talking about RAC, those very same people are bigger spin doctors than Al Sharpton. They have a bad habit of selectively holding people to "personal responsibility". An unwed mother of two gets the ax while RAC gets a free pass and an excuse machine on message boards. I do agree that an infusion of talent is needed on the D side of the ball to achieve excellence. But we're not talking about "excellence". I'd settle for mediocrity. See, that's the entire premise here. Some make it sound like others expect a "top 10" D with mediocre talent. I for one do not. We have mediocre talent on D so I expect a mediocre D. We're not even sniffing mediocrity. That's the problem at this juncture......................
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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It seems people have far more of an issue about me expecting accountability and being a results orientated person than anything.
U think thats the issue?
U try to water it down... It's the RAC is at fault poster that U send out thats the issue and when something is shown that doesn't reflect to him , you push it aside..
Then you claim we're making excuses..thats where I debate you.
Who doesn't look at the sum of the picture?
But with any problem theres more than just ONE thing wrong..
I found out things that showed the blame can't be placed at him squarely..
I'm not going to disregard those things..they expose the internal problems.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 11/08/07 01:10 PM.
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The Fans in Cleveland did in fact want Marty fired for the team underachieving and not reaching the SB, because of what was at the time labled Marty Ball. AM wanted Marty to give up control of the offense and Marty wouldn't back down. It was a power struggle thing between Art and Marty and Marty didn't have a chance, and so he was reported to have resigned. But it is factual that the fans wanted him fired because of Marty Ball and not reaching the SB. So was I honest, yeah I think I was becuase the fans did want him fired much the same as they did MC last year. So Marty quit that is correct and so did MC that is correct. That was what was reported at the time in both instances you are correct, I was wrong.
Here is a read FYI!!!
Marty Schottenheimer may have been the greatest coach in Browns history -- had it not been for Paul Brown. Marty started out with Cleveland as a defensive coordinator, but when Sam Rutigliano was fired half way through the '84 season, Marty took over a 1-7 team and and played .500 ball for the rest of the year. Each year after that, Schottenheimer's Cleveland teams made it to the playoffs, reaching the AFC title game twice in a row. Had it not been for Elway's "Drive" and Byner's "Fumble", He would have been a Super Bowl Coach twice. Most fans can still hear Marty tell his players that "There's a gleam..." in their heads like it was yesterday. The two weaknesses that he may have had, though, were his draft selections and his offensive scheme. During Schottenheimer's tenure, Mike "Mad Dog" Junkin and Clifford Charlton were big time first round busts, and although the Browns made it to the playoffs 4 years in a row, the offense often struggled after Lindy Infante left as offensive coordinator to become coach of the Packers. Cleveland's offensive scheme was referred to as "Marty Ball," and it usually didn't fare well, althought the defense was able to pull the Browns through. This was such a sticking point for owner Art Modell, that after the '88 season, Marty and Arty "mutually separated." This was how the Schottenheimer era was to end in Cleveland. Marty was still a hot prospect, though, and quickly signed on with the Kansas City Chiefs. Much like he did with the Browns, Marty missed the playoffs his first year in KC, but played .500 ball (actually a little better). Schottenheimer's Chiefs did make the playoffs 6 out of the next 7 years, however, and had winning records in all 7. Mary finally resigned from the chiefs in 1998, after the club fell apart and went 7-9. Schottenheimer accepted a post with ESPN as after his coaching days, but then returned to the rank of sideline general when he signd with the Washington Redskins.
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Sorry Pit but you can't hand a guy a pile of pooooooo and say make gold it don't work that way. I think I speak for just about everyone when I say we all expect results, but we all have to temper our expectations with the reality that we handed the guy a pile of poooooooo. We addressed the offensive side of the ball talent wise and the offense is performing better, at least according to you they are. And next up is the defensive talent pool, then I am all for your expectation of results. But poooooo don't add up to gold no matter how you do the math..
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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I think there is probably only one poster on here who might have a clue about what exactly is happening.
Since I'm not that person, I feel the truth probably is closer to what Attack thinks then Peen and Pit. RAC is not perfect but I doubt he really is a know nothing, going along for the ride.
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I think there is probably only one poster on here who might have a clue about what exactly is happening OK. I'l bite. Who is this genius? I'm assuming you mean Danielle but really, she only gets whatever info Hank gives her. And I doubt that even if Hank told her that Romeo is a doofus or the greatest thing since sliced bread she'd report either one of those things to us. I know I wouldn't trust us that much.....
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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OK. I'l bite. Who is this genius? I'm assuming you mean Danielle but really, she only gets whatever info Hank gives her. And I doubt that even if Hank told her that Romeo is a doofus or the greatest thing since sliced bread she'd report either one of those things to us.
I didn't say the person was a genius, just that they might know.
Yes I'm talking about Danielle. She would only know if Hank talks about it to her. I think I would trust Hank to know.
I have no idea if Hank has said anything to Danielle, nor do I care. She is not about to come on here and say anything if she did. I do love to read her posts because sometimes she is able to give me some insight to things I don't know. Other time she asks questions because she is a fan, which I think is cool. There is nothing better IMO than a woman that loves football.
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There is nothing better IMO than a woman that loves football.
So many options and that is what you select??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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U think thats the issue?
Yes I do. As I said, we have mediocre talent on D, nothing more, nothing less. We have some good, young, developing talent, combined with some mediocre stop gap measures, with some ageing veterans thrown in. Not a devistating group, but not as poor as they've performed. Mediocre, ie.....middle of the road. Not 28-32 nor 1-12. But somewhere in between. Being a defensive coach, more should be expected than we've seen.
When your head coach was HIRED because he's a defensive expert and your D underachieves, that's quite an issue IMO
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U try to water it down... It's the RAC is at fault poster that U send out thats the issue and when something is shown that doesn't reflect to him , you push it aside..
Then you claim we're making excuses..thats where I debate you.
Who doesn't look at the sum of the picture?
What big picture? For God's sake man, RAC was hired to be in charge. To be the leader of this coaching staff. If things are going to hell in a handbag, you look to the boss as the guy you HIRED to fix those things. If a position coach isn't getting the job done, fire him! DC isn't doing his job? Fire him! A player "doesn't get it"? Sit his arse untill he DOES get it!
The guy (head coach) hired to run things IS the guy responsible! Now like I said, you can't just snap your fingers and turn mediocre players into all pro studs. But if you try to shift the responsibility away from your head coach because a unit is not playing to their fullest potential, that's pure rationalisation. ie....... the head coach is the top of the food chain. You know? The buck stops here.
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But with any problem theres more than just ONE thing wrong..
I found out things that showed the blame can't be placed at him squarely..
I'm not going to disregard those things..they expose the internal problems.
Which is precisely what RAC's job is. To remedy such problems. And if it takes him half of a season to remedy the things we've seen from the very beginning of this season on D?
That isn't saying much for deciseive action and decision making on his part now does it?
Look, if there's all these "internal problems", who's responsibility is that? Who gets paid to find and remedy such problems? Who is the coach? What exactly is it you think he IS supposed to do?
Okay, you tell me. If there's such multiple internal problems, who BUT your head coach is supposed to seek out, find and remedy such problems?
Oh I see, it's certainly NOT the head coaches responsibility to keep the ship running smooth and upright, huh?
It's the responsibility of a "multitude of people"? Then why have a head coach at all?
IF as you've stated, RAC let's the DC run the D, and the OC run the O................and, if he can't or won't find and stop "multiple internal problems" (or takes him half of a season to do so), what is it exactly he's getting paid to do again?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Sorry Pit but you can't hand a guy a pile of pooooooo and say make gold it don't work that way.
So in your opinion, the talent we currently have on D is playing up to their full potential? It's that you assertion?
As I ststed, I too believe they're "mediocre". But they're not even playing to that potential. That's the issue.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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RAC was hired to be in charge. To be the leader of this coaching staff. If things are going to hell in a handbag, you look to the boss as the guy you HIRED to fix those things. If a position coach isn't getting the job done, fire him! DC isn't doing his job? Fire him! A player "doesn't get it"? Sit his arse untill he DOES get it!
Ahhhh ..Rac should see the writing and go in and can Grantham quickly in the second game of the season.. But wait..when FRYE WAS SHIPPED out what that coming from YOUR pipe about how ridiculous they looked doing that? Now I'm supposed to buy some molded pie your selling that after mid season Rac should can Todd even though there's a lack of talent and other things going on? With logic like that, when they make the new Star Trek movie U should cast the role of Spock... But if you try to shift the responsibility away from your head coach because a unit is not playing to their fullest potential, that's pure rationalisation. Eh..wrong..it's the unit coach that is responsible first... and if the D is not playing to their fullest you look at whats happening.. See what you want to do is jump from A to D without even seeing what B/C are..which is how U are..presumptious... 1-Lack of talent 2-DC not maximizing the players he has and not utilizing them to their strengths. 3-lack of discipline/fundamentals.. See what U want to do is paint this pciture Rac is sitting around somewhere whittling away on a wooden image sitting on a rocking chair ..isolated away from the team while the mess is ongoing.. I don't claim to know the conversations nor what he does minute to minute....but if the players say he gameplans and is READY for the game and makes sure everyone else is ready than I have to believe it.. I then have no choice but to think something is happening ingame that is destroying that work.. I believe he's giving his DC every chance to get the job done without meddling too much..but many people have seen his hands in the D as of late.. So you're trying to drill me with questions like whats Rac supposed to be doing since he's getting paid to fix things is lost on me.. I know as well as anyone what he's supposed to do..and I see him trying to do it with all the other things handcuffing the defense .. 3rd year coach teaching a 3rd year DC how to run his defense ...with limited talent.. But check it Pit ...they aren't going to can TG right now..with no DC to take over...and they may not at the end of the year.. Just because dude isn't like U Quickdraw doesn't he's forgotten all of a sudden how to scheme his defenses...
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 11/08/07 04:26 PM.
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Thats how fans are, they don't have patients, and they really don't have a handle on what is wrong so they reach for the 1st thing they see, and RAC will always be the thing they blame, and the last person they credit. Thats the way fans are.
That's a pretty broad stroke that misses the mark man.
Maybe we should have had more patience with Dwight Clark. How about Butch Davis. How about Mo Carthon.
Point made.
You continuously want to broad-stroke this thing as to why some fans want him gone. Truly, some look at wins and losses and come to a conclusion based on a flawed stack of data, but not all. I don't think that you should lump all the fans in together like that, because that "you must have patience!" card has been played during all the failures within the organization as well.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Legend
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I don't think that you should lump all the fans in together like that, because that "you must have patience!" card has been played during all the failures within the organization as well.
Yeah,, but this time, it actually looks like having patience was the right thing to do... so often, it isn't! But this time,, yeah, I'd say it is.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I think there is probably only one poster on here who might have a clue about what exactly is happening.
Thank you Pdawg. That really means a lot to me.
#gmstrong
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I do however believbe that Phil has pretty much put Chud *in charge* of running the O.
Uh, Pit, Chud is the Offensive Coordinator. He will, as will every offensive coordinator be pretty much in charge of running the O.
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Yes,he is sorta "Chud's little helper" in regards to preperation I would say. Is that how an NFL head coach operates?
So that's all the more important it is to identify strengths and weakness in a defense and establish potential mismatches for the purpose of offensive game planning? By calling him "Chud's little helper" you make it sound like Chud's doing nothing more challenging than changing a light bulb and RAC's holding the ladder.
You see, this is one of your methods of dismissing and minimizing things that are relevent but do not fit your agenda. And you do have an agenda. That much is obvious.
But you will answer to that with something like, "Is it an agenda to expect accountability and improvement?" That's another of your methods in your art of deception. You twist the meanings of what people say to you, and you answer only to the new meaning you made up.
That's the biggest thing that makes it difficult to have a conversation with you.
What do you want RAC to do as the head coach? Do you want him to draw up the offensive game plans and present them to Chud along with his report on the opposition's defense? Do you want him to call the plays too?
And while he's at it, would you like him to film study the opposition's offense and draw up the defnesive game plan as well, and make the defensive calls from the sideline while Grantham holds the plan on a clipboard?
Would he then be participating enough for you?
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BTW- The assertions that RAC wouldn't be running the O were being stated by me BEFORE my preperations to move. This isn't "some new thing". Jeesh..........
So, we hire a new OC and you boldy predict that RAC would not be running the O.
Brilliant!
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...many feel he isn't operating in a "full head coaching capacity" and has had limitations and constraints put upon him especialy in regards to *running* the O and playcalling/gameplanning on that side of the ball.
No chit Sherlock. Only coaches who do their own offensive game planning and call their own plays operate in a different manner. Marty did neither with the Chargers and they won 14 games last season. He was chastized by the media for allowing his coordinators to have full responsibility in their respective jobs.
If you are a defensive coach you allow your OC to game plan and call plays. That doesn't mean that you go play in the sand and not get involved in preparing for an opponent. It merely means you allow the OC to do his job.
What RAC doesn't do on the offensive side, he does do on the defensive side. He film studies the opposition's O and when Grantham presents him with a game plan RAC tweeks it and tells him to go run it. Personally, I don't think Grantham has been running it as well as he could. RAC seems to have gotten more involved lately and if you've been watching you've see it.
Did the Steelers crumble and fall apart when the great Bill Cowher left? NOT! If he were doing all the things you expect RAC to do their team would be lost without him.
It's not the head coaches job to run everything. It's his job to make sure that everything gets run.
Have you ever been a foreman on a job? Did you do every freaking thing? Or did you help prepare your men to do those things? Did they need their hands held every step of the way or were they capable of working on their own under your guidence and supervision?
And who are these "many" who feel RAC isn't operating in a "full head coaching capacity"? I hear a little of it here and there in other places, but not much really since you been absent form this board.
Plus, I'd love to hear your definition of "operating in a full head coaching capacity" is. You seem to have something in mind when you say that, or are you just throwing out more drivel to make yourself sound right? (to yourself)
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You know better than that. You have leaders who can command a team and fully run both sides of the ball and you have those that can't. Those that CAN are true head coaches. Those who CAN'T are just getting in the way.
I'd love to hear your definition of "fully run[ing] both sides of the ball". I really would.
All through the preseason you complained that the team was not showing improvement. You claimed that it was the head coaches job and the responsibility fell on him and him alone to make certain that the team improved in measureable ways. Now that they have, you have decided that it is no longer necessary for the head coach to be the one responsible for improvement; that his assistants are the ones actually who are responsible for that and they are doing it where RAC can't.
It seems funny that just a couple of short months ago no one else could be held accountable for improvement or the lack thereof. Now however, you find it doesn't fit your agenda that the team has improved in ways you doubted could ever happen with RAC as the HC. So now your take is that his assistants and the GM are the ones who are making it happen. Where were you in clammoring for accountability from the GM and OC regarding improvement before?
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And he has his hands tied thank God.
You know nothing of that. Nothing. You only surmise while accepting the information that fits your agenda and dismissing and minimizing that which doesn't.
Maybe I'll call you Sir Mise. That's not name calling either. That's awarding you Knighthood for your incredibly insightful takes on why RAC is a failure as a head coach.
#gmstrong
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I know what the fans wanted, I was there. If an NFL team makes moves based on what the fans want then the people running that team are idiots. As for your FYI I stopped reading here: Quote:
Marty Schottenheimer may have been the greatest coach in Browns history
Once I stopped laughing and wiped the tears away from my eyes, I decided to reply. Where ever you got that info, they forgot about Paul Brown and Blanton Collier, these 2 guys make Marty look like Chris Palmer.
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Legend
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As for your FYI I stopped reading here:
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Marty Schottenheimer may have been the greatest coach in Browns history
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Once I stopped laughing and wiped the tears away from my eyes, I decided to reply. Where ever you got that info, they forgot about Paul Brown and Blanton Collier, these 2 guys make Marty look like Chris Palmer.
What we have here is another case of selective reading.. Fletch, to be fair, Bone added this comment to the end of that statement:
"had it not been for Paul Brown" which clearly indicates that he acknowledges Paul Brown as the greatest coach..
As for Blanton Collier, yeah, because of his Championship win and the many times he'd coached teams that either went to the Championship or knocked on the door,, he easily fits the number 2 role..
But Marty could really be considered the number 3.... He only coached the Browns for what, 4.5 years.. His teams made the AFC Championship game twice and let's face it, the team that Bud Carson inherited was built by Marty...so you could say that three of his teams made it to the AFC Championship game...
That's not too bad really..
So perhaps had you read a little further, you would have seen what Bone was trying to say...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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