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#1896639 10/26/21 02:18 AM
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Just doing some late night stat checking. 7 games into the season - almost halfway. Yes, we've been riddled with injuries (everybody knows and acknowledges that) - but let this sink in.

Our leader in receptions is currently: RB Kareem Hunt - 20 catches (on pace for 49 if he wasn't going to miss time)

Our leader in receiving yards is currently: TE David Njoku - 284 yards (on pace for 690 yards)

Our leader in receiving TD is currently: WR Donovan Peoples-Jones - 2 TD, 1 being a hail mary (on pace for 5 TD)

saywhat

Would you have believed that almost halfway in, our leading receivers would be a RB, a TE and our 2nd year 4th string WR, and that currently we have NOBODY on pace for over 50 catches, NOBODY for over 700 yards and nobody for over 5 TD???

Just goes to show how dominant our OLine and running game have really been, and how truly reliant on that aspect we are (not news but still eye popping IMO) to still be above 500 and winning games. I said it before and I'll say it again, boy do/did we miss Jarvis Landry combined with OBJ being a below-average JAG at this point in his career. We can basically count on our OL/RB every game, but it seems as Jarvis goes - so our QB and offense goes. Because outside of that we have....a RB a TE and DPJ.

The only other team that's winning games with as little production from their receiving core is Tennessee IMO. Even then, AJ Brown has been a stud to complement them riding Derrick Henry.


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Ive said a few places, but I’d be good with the following:

Landry
DPJ
Higgins
2022 draft pick (2-3 rounder)


In retrospect maybe we shoulda kept Hodge IMO


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Interesting.

Looking back though it is understandable. Odell and Jarvis have been injured.

Baker has been injured. The OL has had injuries.

Hopefully we will begin to see more production from the wideouts.

I am pretty sure that we are still balanced in offensive plays between the run and pass.

In the end in this offense it all begins with running the ball. That is what sets this offense up.

Most teams would love to be able to run the ball like the Browns.

We have the receivers to be effective but to date it has not happened. Jarvis is a slot guy who we depend upon.

Odell can stretch the field as can Schwartz. So far they have been ineffective.

I was expecting more from DPJ but in his case. It is lack of targets.

We do feature TE's. And we use all three guys.

At this time we have our playing personality. But it will need to change as the season progresses.

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I think if Landry were healthy he'd be leading in receptions. DPJ leading in TDs is good, though maybe the number to get there isn't what we'd hoped.

Injuries suck.


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j/c:

I think it would be good to trade for (and extend) the most underutilized WR for the past handful of years.....
The player who has had to deal with some pretty terrible QBs......
The player that has had to deal with some pretty terrible HCs......

....Allen Robinson.

From there:

- I'd say let both Landry and OBJ go. Maybe keep Landry if he restructures his contract.
- Extend Higgins to more than a one-year deal.
- Draft a WR early if the player grade calls for it.
- Extend Njoku.

#FreeAllenRobinson


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Robinson would be an interesting choice, but he may be too expensive for us


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Well, we're paying two WRs a total of $30M this season. So one WR at around half of that (who is arguably worth it) might not be too bad.


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As a team, we only have 1,561 yards passing to begin with. Once you spread that around, and it's clear that we spread it around pretty evenly, you get individuals with mediocre-looking stats lines.

The fact that no individual has eye-popping numbers is not a problem, not at all. The fact that total team passing is so low IS a problem, or indicative of one. It's simply a symptom. One big reason is that the core of our WR corps has been either injured or out-of-sync with the QB the entire season. We had yet to field both Landry and OBJ at the same time this year until this last game against Denver. The rest of the issues are well documented: it's hard to pass effectively when your QB is broken and so are both OT positions.

We already have all the personnel we need; who we have is plenty good... we just need the parts that make it all go to get healthy AND for those WRs to actually produce when they get their opportunities.


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It was evident last year that we had no pass catching player who could "take the top off a defense". No threat to take the ball all the way. We still don't have that player...and we still need that player.

We have a 6' tall QB throwing to 6' and shorter WRs - other than DPJ and Higgins.

Throw in an injured QB, two injured Ts and our best receiver being out for (3) weeks and it makes it hard to really determine what he have or what we need.

If they think Baker is coming back...I'd give up a lot to get Allen Robinson...not a 1st...but I'd consider a 2nd.

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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
Ive said a few places, but I’d be good with the following:

Landry
DPJ
Higgins
2022 draft pick (2-3 rounder)


In retrospect maybe we shoulda kept Hodge IMO

I agree this is likely how I see our core shaking out going forward as well, with the exception of possibly even adding a trade target. Higgins, however, is in his last year, so that would require re-signing him. See the list I compiled here -

Browns Free Agents

I know we drafted Schwartz, but he's been a nightmare. Between that, OBJ's fall-off and Landry's injuries...we're pretty darn thin. Even if we re-sign Higgy I think we target a WR fairly early in the draft, and we might need to draft more than one and/or trade for or sign somebody.

If Baker weren't injured, I think the FO might seriously consider adding someone at or before the trade deadline this year. Given Baker's injury I think they're not going to be as bullish on trading future picks and assets for this season. JMO.

Another thought is what about Demetric Felton? I wanted to see us feature him in the slot when Landry was out, but wonder if he might provide something here at an area of need?


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Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
Well, we're paying two WRs a total of $30M this season. So one WR at around half of that (who is arguably worth it) might not be too bad.

I think we should keep Landry around. He's our only proven, bona-fide, producing WR at this point (DPJ might get there given time and chances). But given our production (or lack thereof) of our WR's to date (seriously David Njoku is our leading receiver in yards...) then I don't see how or why we'd move away from Jarvis. He's the straw that stirs our drink.

I'm not sure off the top of my head what our cap situation is, to know if we could absorb the addition of an Allen Robinson type.

The bigger question is what in the world do we do with OBJ and his albatross of a contract? I'd take a ham sammich, but not sure anybody else wants to pay that much for their own sandwiches.

Last edited by GraffZ06; 10/26/21 01:29 PM.

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After this year, OBJ can be released without any dead money.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/odell-beckham-jr-14421/

I agree, keep Landry, he brings so much to this team and offense that does not show up on the stat sheet. Next year is the last year of his contract. I would not be surprised to see Berry try and restructure and extend Landry this offseason.

Offseason WR FAs heading into 2022:

Davante Adams (29 years old at start of next season)
Chris Godwin (26 years old at start of next season)
Allen Robinson (29 years old at start of next season)

Personally, I'd be surprised to see the Browns spend big on a WR in free agency. DPJ could very well take over OBJ's spot next year. Re-sign Higgins to a cheap contract.

I also might look at Michael Gallup who is talented, but there is no room for him anymore on the Cowboys. He's a FA after this season. Should be relatively inexpensive.

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I dont think this offense puts a emphasis on a big time pass catcher
At the WR position. Its a offense that has a run 1st mentality
Which has worked. The only issue is, is,that this is a offense
That cannot afford to fall behind by 14-pts or more.
It might be the worst WR crew in the North talent wise.
Schwartz to me looks like John Ross 2.0. A track star playing
Football.
I dont.see this front office investing big $$$$ in a FA WR.
Their analysis doesnt dictate it

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Originally Posted by GraffZ06
Our leader in receiving yards is currently: TE David Njoku - 284 yards (on pace for 690 yards)

Though I don't like the reasons why this stat is the case, I sure am glad he's been stepping up when called this season. For the most part, blocking decently and catching what's coming his way (especially in the absence of Landry). Like another poster said, I hope we figure out a way to extend him. I guess I'd prefer him to Hooper moving forward, but we've invested a lot of money in Austin.

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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
Ive said a few places, but I’d be good with the following:

Landry
DPJ
Higgins
2022 draft pick (2-3 rounder)


In retrospect maybe we shoulda kept Hodge IMO
I'm good with this - OBJ can be shipped for a bag of peanuts (if that).


The Browns finally have a leader in the building. It won't be long before Jim Schwartz is in charge. Thankfully.
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Originally Posted by GraffZ06
Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
Ive said a few places, but I’d be good with the following:

Landry
DPJ
Higgins
2022 draft pick (2-3 rounder)


In retrospect maybe we shoulda kept Hodge IMO

I agree this is likely how I see our core shaking out going forward as well, with the exception of possibly even adding a trade target. Higgins, however, is in his last year, so that would require re-signing him. See the list I compiled here -

Browns Free Agents

I know we drafted Schwartz, but he's been a nightmare. Between that, OBJ's fall-off and Landry's injuries...we're pretty darn thin. Even if we re-sign Higgy I think we target a WR fairly early in the draft, and we might need to draft more than one and/or trade for or sign somebody.

If Baker weren't injured, I think the FO might seriously consider adding someone at or before the trade deadline this year. Given Baker's injury I think they're not going to be as bullish on trading future picks and assets for this season. JMO.

Another thought is what about Demetric Felton? I wanted to see us feature him in the slot when Landry was out, but wonder if he might provide something here at an area of need?
Felton in the slot should be a winner


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If the offense isn't there. The Wide receiver won't matter.


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Our core at this point is DPJ and Schwartz. No one else is signed long term with guaranteed money. I’d expect OBJ to be on a different team next year. Landry will be on a different team if he doesn’t sign a new deal. Higgins could be around if the team wants him back, as we last off-season there isn’t really a market for him. My guess is that we invest some draft capital early in the draft on wide receiver and give out some low level free agent money to high upside guys.

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I think I'll start sweating a bit if both Landry and Higgins are gone before next season. Those are Baker's 2 favorite WRs.


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I think we are missing that big body, huge catch radius kinda guy, where you can throw in an area and he can go get it. A Mike Evans, Julio Jones, calvin johnson type.. A prime josh gordon..lol


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Originally Posted by leadtheway
I think we are missing that big body, huge catch radius kinda guy, where you can throw in an area and he can go get it. A Mike Evans, Julio Jones, calvin johnson type.. A prime josh gordon..lol

Ideally that’s DPJ.

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I think we have to consider the injury to Baker as to why we've passed so little and those numbers look that way. Last year when Baker was healthy we passed quite a bit more and the play calling was very balanced. I think looking at how much we spread the ball around also plays into those numbers.


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... and Njoku?


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Originally Posted by oobernoober
... and Njoku?

Not under contract.

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Schwartz inspires very little in me thus far. Speed, yeah … but his route running and body type leave a lot to be desired if he’s going to be a consistent threat.

We need to draft someone to go along with DPJ and Higgy


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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With both Landry and OBJ missing games, it makes sense. Also, running as well as we do doesn't help the receiving stats much.


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Originally Posted by Damanshot
With both Landry and OBJ missing games, it makes sense. Also, running as well as we do doesn't help the receiving stats much.


I agree. One also has to consider that it is doubtful that both of landry and OBJ are even on the team next year.


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I think he just needs times. Dude's head is probably spinning right now. He needs to go back on the DPJ timeline and we'll see what happens in a year.


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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
Schwartz inspires very little in me thus far. Speed, yeah … but his route running and body type leave a lot to be desired if he’s going to be a consistent threat.

We need to draft someone to go along with DPJ and Higgy

Remember DPJ early on last year.. Seemed constantly lost.. Not so much the latter half of the year.. He hasn't found his footing yet.. He's a rook... Give it time


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Yeah, we’ll see how he progresses here. I still kinda wish we kept Hodge too


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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The phenom from preseason Davion Davis was a better keep this August, JoJo Natson too for that matter, than Hodge imo; because Hodge already showed too many drive ending plays over a two year period.


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Originally Posted by Iluvmyxstripper
I dont think this offense puts a emphasis on a big time pass catcher
At the WR position. Its a offense that has a run 1st mentality
Which has worked. The only issue is, is,that this is a offense
That cannot afford to fall behind by 14-pts or more.

And that ^ would never win a super bowl, except who? Joe Gibbs 80's redskins team?


Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Maybe the Ravens teams were that way too


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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I think OBJ when healthy is still a downfield threat. Schwartz will be too. He's still learning but the speed is there as we also have with Felton. With all the injuries the learning curve has slowed considerably and because of this I don't know how much we can achieve the rest of the season.

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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
Yeah, we’ll see how he progresses here. I still kinda wish we kept Hodge too

I liked Hodge and Davis also but at the end of the day, do either of them have the upside that Schwartz has? Do either have the kinda game breaking speed that Schwartz has? I'm perfectly okay giving him time. As of today, he's not a negative or positive..


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Originally Posted by Damanshot
Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
Yeah, we’ll see how he progresses here. I still kinda wish we kept Hodge too

I liked Hodge and Davis also but at the end of the day, do either of them have the upside that Schwartz has? Do either have the kinda game breaking speed that Schwartz has? I'm perfectly okay giving him time. As of today, he's not a negative or positive..
He can definitely get better and probably will. He had a nice game against KC and helped us build a lead. He also stopped on a route against Houston (and last week) which resulted in Baker’s injury (albeit baker shouldn’t have tried to make a tackle)


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
I think OBJ when healthy is still a downfield threat. Schwartz will be too. He's still learning but the speed is there as we also have with Felton. With all the injuries the learning curve has slowed considerably and because of this I don't know how much we can achieve the rest of the season.

I don't think Felton is all that fast. He is slippery, but not fast.


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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
Originally Posted by Damanshot
Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
Yeah, we’ll see how he progresses here. I still kinda wish we kept Hodge too

I liked Hodge and Davis also but at the end of the day, do either of them have the upside that Schwartz has? Do either have the kinda game breaking speed that Schwartz has? I'm perfectly okay giving him time. As of today, he's not a negative or positive..
He can definitely get better and probably will. He had a nice game against KC and helped us build a lead. He also stopped on a route against Houston (and last week) which resulted in Baker’s injury (albeit baker shouldn’t have tried to make a tackle)

That mistake in the houston game is something a rookie might do,, I didn't like it but I understand it. This kinda stuff should be correctable..


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Quote
I don't think Felton is all that fast. He is slippery, but not fast.


Slippery- and quick.
There's a place for a guy like that on any team.

To be honest, I haven't seen enough of him to know if he's fast or not. Of the few glimpses I've had of him in open space, I haven't seen that 'second gear'- but that might also be due to the nature of the plays when he's broken that first tackle. Lots of times, he's juked someone near the LOS, and has to regain downfield momentum. I can't recall what he looks like when he's allowed to hit the hole full speed.


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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
I think OBJ when healthy is still a downfield threat. Schwartz will be too. He's still learning but the speed is there as we also have with Felton. With all the injuries the learning curve has slowed considerably and because of this I don't know how much we can achieve the rest of the season.

I don't think Felton is all that fast. He is slippery, but not fast.


He ran a 4.58 forty which is pretty slow for a guy his size.

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