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Crickets...just like in real life outside the cesspool here.

donny’s environmental policies were atrocious. That’s just the tip of the iceberg.

Giving almost a trillion dollars in zeor interest loans to already profitable business during a good economy when they didn't need it. Almost a trillion dollar tax cut to business.

That employ people, that pay taxes, and grow the economy. yes, terrible.

I distinctly, just recently, remember you telling me my business should charge more. Make more for my business.

Here's a little heads up: States, communities etc, offer tax breaks to companies to get them to locate in their area. It's how it is.

Just off the top of my head - and granted not everything was official "policy".

Environmental Policy.
Running his administration with a dozens and dozens of "acting" leadership because he couldn't nominate quality people.
Putting families in cages.
Kowtowing to Putin like a sycophant.
Being played and being owned by China in a "Trade War"
Paying the farmers $28 Billion during the trade war -- and the Trumpians say they don't like to hand out money for nothing LMAO.
Pissing off and alienating every world "Partner" we could previously rely on.
Being played by Rocket Man ... like a fiddle.
His response to Covid that cost Americans 10,000's of lives.
His response to Khashoggi and pandering to the Saudi's.
Putting unqualified next of kin and in-laws in charge of things they had zero ability to be involved with.
Giving away a $1.9 million in tax cuts - in an economy that was red hot and not getting ANY return (unless you were a 1 percenter).
Ending press briefing and running his administration thru social media.
Using the DOJ as his private henchman service.
Generally spitting in the face of any process, accountability and norms of our Government.

Oh - and trying to prevent the peaceful transition of power through lies. That ones pretty big too.

The list is very long. And Biden's list of issues and mistakes and incompetence might end up being long too. But he'd need 4 terms to achieve the list and level of ineptitude Trump managed.

EDIT -
Not listening to the military and pulling out of Syria allowing the genocide of Kurds who had been partners.
Telling the world that he would rather take the word of Putin than all his intelligence agencies (and those of partners around the globe).

He failed his oath of office to protect the citizens of this country.

He lied about covid as 500k died.

He tried to overthrow a fair and just election and led a coup to take over the government.

He should be hung for those two alone.

His environmental policies were a barbaric assault on the land of our country.

He did nothing to stop school shootings and gun control.

I could write till tomorrow. He is the worst president this country has ever had.

Why no talk about Ray Epps and the FBI?

Actually you just told another lie. It was OCD who said you should charge more. I explained how you could be profitable by charging less as you currently do. But I never expect you to remember when I give you kudos. I explained that you don't have employees, have a shop and cut other overhead which allow you to charge less but still maintain a healthy profit margin.

Segregation used to be "how it works" too. That didn't make it right. You have communities bidding against each other to get companies to move there. Giving huge tax breaks to companies that already make huge profits. Tennessee just gave Ford 900 million dollars in tax breaks to build a factory here. If it were illegal to bribe companies this way everyone would be on equal playing ground. Corporate welfare is the same as giving people welfare. One you endorse and one you hate. The one you hate really needs it. The one you endorse doesn't.

If anyone could use tax breaks it would be small businesses. Like the one you have and Eve has. People trying to build up their business. Billion dollar corporations don't need them. That's what's helped get us to where we are now. Wages not keeping up with the cost of living while corporations set record profits and the stock market soaring. People have witnessed how what you're supporting works. And they're sick of it.

You are sick of a healthy stock market? Why?

I'm not sick of it. What I'm sick of is mostly the wealthy being the only one lining their pockets. During the pandemic billionaires alone are 1.2 trillion in richer while millions of Americans lost their jobs and small businesses suffered and closed. A healthy stock market is good for America. But if that's the only gauge we use as to a healthy economy things are totally out of whack. It's also right to keep things in their proper perspective by showing who comes out the biggest winner with record setting stock prices.

How Much Money America’s Billionaires Have Made During The Covid-19 Pandemic

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chasew...her-during-the-pandemic/?sh=62b28757f557

But Pit, those billionaires work at least 5000x harder than their employees. That’s why they pay themselves 5000x more. It’s basic math really.


(I hope that didn’t need to be in purple for you get the sarcasm…)


And besides they all were going to use those profits to expand their business’. They even told donny’s team such when asked… er… wait…


https://www.salon.com/2017/11/17/ceos-admit-they-wont-create-jobs-with-their-tax-cut-money/

(trump’s) White House economic policy adviser Gary Cohn saw one such indicator firsthand on Tuesday during a panel discussion at a conference for CEOs put on by the Wall Street Journal which featured he and a number of other prominent government and business leaders.

During a segment featuring Cohn and two other Journal editors, moderator John Bussey decided to take a poll of the business executives in the room about what they might do with extra money that would be freed up from the GOP’s tax cut plan.


“If the tax reform bill goes through, do you plan to increase investment?” Bussey said as he asked the assembled CEOs to raise their hands if they were considering doing so. Almost none of them did so. The result clearly spooked Cohn. “Why aren’t the other hands up?” he asked with a nervous laugh. Rather than prolong the inconvenient moment, Bussey decided to move on to another question.

—————-

Instead they paid off their corporate debt and made massive buybacks of their own stock. Further stuffing their pockets with taxpayer money.

donny was a disaster.

What I find so confusing is that people who claim to know about how the economy works seems so blind to what happened. That or they just lie about it. You choose. And I'm certainly no economic expert but it only takes a basic grasp of the economy to understand. When the economy turns bad there are some basic tools that can be used to try and stem the tide. Tax cuts being one. It puts more money in the hands of workers which would help increase spending. In a consumer based economy, which we are, that can be a huge help.

Secondly is interest rate cuts. Especially to the working class. They are the ones buying homes, cars and goods. When they buy these products business also thrives.

What Trump did was use the tools available for emergencies when the economy goes south, and used those tools to make what was already a very good economy when he was elected look even better. And just giving business who were thriving 900 billion in interest free loans when it was totally unneeded.

What people seem to continue to refuse to grasp or admit, once again take your pick, is that it's putting money in the hands of consumers that drives the economy. Business only adds jobs that are needed. they only increase jobs when demand increases to the point they need to add jobs to keep up with increased production.

Business doesn't just create jobs because someone hands them a boat load of money.

I certainly don't want anyone to take this the wrong way. Business needs to make money. They need to thrive and have the ability to expand. But that is their entire goal. Taking the bulk of a huge tax cut and turning that money into buying stock options and even bigger bonuses for their top executives does not help stimulate the economy.

Well republicans have convinced their 'poor' and 'working class' supporters, the majority of their base, to vote against their own financial interest in exchange for the promise of an American dream that is no longer relevant in almost any way. Then these same supporters, rather they realize they were bamboozled or not, then defend decisions THAT HURT THEM. You can't make these things up.

A good example would be Trump's handling of the pandemic. When Trum politicized covid, then took the stance it was a hoax as the bodies piled up, republicans created their own reality and echoed Trump until everything they were doing to protect themselves seemed to be the exact opposite of what science argued was the correct steps to take... How does this even happen in a thinking society?

"Thinking"? Thinking?

Blind cult followers. The Pied Piper of knuckleheads.

trump a guy who most likely has never made his own meal. Never did a manual task of any kind.
A guy who paid someone to take his SAT test.

A tax cheat who promised he would release his taxes.

A man who makes fun of a disabled person.

A guy who cheats on his pregnant wife with a porn star.

Oogles young women at beauty contests.

Slights American heros like John McCain, Colin Powell and Gold Star parents.

Refuses the transfer of power after defeat.

Lies to the American people about a deadly pandemic.

Endorses quack cures.

Tries to overthrow a fair and valid election.

Loses the popular vote twice.

Is impeached twice.

How about his band of criminals he hired who now are in prison.

Want an example of corrupt leadership look no further than Traitor Don.

I don't blame billionaires because people don't make more money. I also wonder what you mean by working hard? I suppose that could be defined many different ways.

But trump. But trump. But trump.

Trump is still the odds on favorite to be the GOP nominee in the next election.

Trump still controls the vast majority of the GOP. He's very much relevant to any political discussion regards 'right' vs 'left'

Trump is newly out of office - so he is entirely relevant to (say) a discussion about $400K spent on Biden's property, when (say) the Trump supporters didn't say Boo about the hundreds of $millions spent on Golf and trips to Mar-a-lago. . . . etc.

Hilary was never relevant for anything after she lost the election. Hunter has never been relevant.

While Trump still controls the Republican party....While he's still running campaign style rallies.....While he's still refusing to release his taxes.....While he and his cronies are still refusing to testify for the Jan. 6th commission....We're all just supposed to be quiet about it.

Socialism is all well and good until you run out of other people's money!

Yet most developed countries already have the vast majority of those things while some people in our country keep preaching scare tactics and labeling it socialism/communism as to why we can not.

But those countries don’t have multiple billionaires taking joy rides into space.
So… we win! Cuz when I become a billionaire I want to make sure I can too can take space rides.
Stop trying to take my future fortune!!!

The sad thing is that is the aim and you just don't know it.

If we start to tax unrealized gains from billionaires, it won't be long before they need more money and come for yours.

The only way for the snowball to exist and grow is to gather more snow..

The deal with billionaires is they can live pretty much anywhere they want. If we run them out of this country, they will find somewhere else.

When they come for mine?!
What??!?
donny just handed them billions of ‘mine’ in tax breaks.
There’s no when. It’s happened. And they keep sucking at the tit while you excuse it… because how could they possible live with a few billion less? Poor things earned it by working thousands upon thousands of times harder than their employees.

Give it time if what being proposed happens, but I think your indoctrination is a bit too deep.

As if your "indoctrination" isn't deep? lmao@u. Your whole party is cuckoo for cocoa puffs.

I think people forget that the vast majority of countries that people use as an example (Norway/Sweeden/Canada take your pick of places that don't have much of a military) don't have to police the world/protect it as we are forced to do.

If we didn't... China/Russia/North Korea/take your pick of countries would invade and we would be speaking a different language and torn apart like what happened to the Romans.

BLAH BLAH BLAH BS EXCUSES TO DO NOTHING FOR PEOPLE. Got news for you, nobody with any sense at all is going to invade a country with all the guns in homes that this country has, let alone go up against our military in all-out war to save our homeland... not going to happen.

It may not be your intent, but your post reads like you are trying to justify and suggest the US military budget is "needed" or reasonable.

1. I think it was America alone that decided and became the self appointed "policeman" of the world.
2. I think that decision was made in no small part under the influence of defense contractors and big business that benefits from such
3. The level of spend is insane.

https://www.pgpf.org/chart-archive/0053_defense-comparison

not disagreeing with you... this is just off topic

I’m not in favor of a system that punishes hard work and innovation, but I’m also not in favor of a system that is also controlled and rigged by billionaires and perpetuates the type of wealth gap we are experiencing. That’s a true core conservative ideal that has been lost with Republicans. The system shouldn’t be rigged for anyone. The ladder must be free flowing up and down.

The ball began rolling with Reagan and honestly picked up steam with nearly every administration that followed, R or D. So, my question to you and other people who oppose the current legislation is two fold: do you find the wealth gap concerning, and, if so, what is your solution to resolve it?

SBD mentioned the fall of Rome as a comparison. However, the central focus of the fall was not military might. An empire has to decay from the inside before it gets taken over from the outside. Rome became the victim of self-interested, wealthy, corrupt statesmen angling for power and doing anything they could to get it. The state be damned, they just wanted to be wealthy and in power. They were too drunk with their own ambition to realize what they were doing, or, they were just willing to risk it all as long as they were the ones in charge. Sound familiar?

As far as historical comparisons go, I will say that a wealthy elite, who amassed an embarrassment or wealth opposed to a rapidly declining middle class has been disastrous in one way or another for just about every historical country, nation, empire, etc. that I can think of.

Something has to be done. I don’t know how effective this legislation will be, but I also get sickened when I see people like McConnell only offer critiques without offering solutions. Even further, actually pushing for legislation that perpetuates the growing problem.

Romulus Augustulus McConnellus

All I know is that I pay more taxes than Amazon, and that is not right.

Talk about the corporate welfare queens!!!!

I am not sure what ball you are talking about, but the wealth gap started long before President Reagan. You had massive wealth gaps when the county started...later, look at the industrial revolution starting not long after the war between the states. I am sure Rockefeller and many like him in the 1900's made way more than the average American. The gaps then were as much as today, if not more considering many people lived on small farms and didn't make much if any money at all.

How do you fix it? You know there is no easy answer or fix to that. IMO the problem with wages isn't what we pay our people, it's what others in the world pay theirs. That needs to be fixed. I'll let you try to fix that...lol

I do agree that fixing some of the tax codes imposed on business need to be reinforced, but they need work across the globe. If we are putting American companies at a disadvantage, in turn we are putting American workers at a disadvantage. This minimum tax being discussed for equal enactment around the world is a good start.

I have long said that life is like the game of Monopoly. We have all played. Sooner or later someone ends up with all the good board positions and make money at every turn.

Unlike the game, it isn't as simple as invoking a "do over". I get having the super rich paying higher taxes, but I was reading somewhere that Musk might be paying a few hundred billion in taxes....sorry, that is more than fair share. What he might make really isn't the question here.

I understand you comparing things to historical events, but those were different. You had Emperors and their appointed Governors making money. Private citizens had no shot. They were subjects of the kingdom. I don't see that in this country. Lot's of people don't make it, but we are starting to villainize those who do by those who don't. The point is everybody here at least has a chance. We don't have the government saying who makes it and who doesn't. At least not yet.

Now, I do agree that opportunity isn't or hasn't always equal, it never has or will, but those gaps have narrowed and will continue to get better, but that is another chapter in the broad brush questions you asked.

The wealth gap has always existed. Off course. You can't have an upper, middle and low income definition without there being a wealth gap.

Trying to infer that it's the same now as the 1900's is disingenuous or simply not paying attention.

https://apps.urban.org/features/wealth-inequality-charts/

This site charts the income and wealth gap between different classes since 1963. The gap has grown exponentially since 80's. Actually I don't know if you can grow more than exponentially - but the graph is nearly vertical from 1983-2016.

As for Musk "might be" paying "maybe" a certain amount? Great. Let's verify. Let's not have shady shysters who allegedly have millions in income pay less taxes than someone at the top end of the middle class.

It's not about those people having less. The thrust is about taxing their holdings before they realize a gain..meaning before they sell.

In other words you buy a stock for $1 and it is valued at $10 a year later, you tax them on that amount even though they haven't taken any profit on the stock.

I don't agree with that. That is a dangerous door to open as i could see the next step in falling down the line at some point. Plus, what happens if after 10 years of paying tax on an imaginary dollar amount of $10, the stock is sold at $6? How do you make adjustment for that? You have seen it where the markets fall a substantial amount and you read about so and so losing $350 mil last week.

Now, I could get on board for the super wealthy paying a tax premium on capitol gains above and beyond what might be considered a "normal" amount. And "normal" being way beyond what guys like you or I would consider normal...well, at least me, you might have half a $billion sitting in some investment. I could see leaving the first 500 million or so as is, then ramp up to maybe 40%-45% on gains after that.

IMO, the ultra-wealthy that get out of paying their fair share because of loopholes in our tax code. Not because of the tax rate assigned to them. I think people get that mixed up. Our tax code needs to be simplified way down first. Hell, I'd blow the whole thing up and start over if it were up to me.

We argue about how much (amount) they pay when the real question is if we are requiring them to pay at all, and on what.

Agreed. Not to mention it's morally bankrupt, IMO. I cannot believe this has been considered at the federal level.

The only thing dumber than this was the Med Device tax that was supposed to help fund ObamaCare. They tried taxing revenue.

I just got a 2,500 commission check.

My net was 1,275 and 125 was taken out for my Ira. That means I paid 1,100 in taxes on a 2,500 dollar check. Thats 44% in taxes.

I think that’s plenty. I’m not sure why commissions get taxes at such a high rate but that’s ridiculous. It has nothing to do with what I make annually as they tax each check based on what your annual income would be off that check.

I’m not sure there’s any INTELLECTUAL DISHONESTY going on here it may just be IGNORANCE on the subject.

U wanna raise tax revenues on the rich it’s pretty simple. Do away with tax loopholes but neither side wants to do that because it would hurt them and there donors.

Every time joKe says the rich need to pay there fair share I *L* … in 2017 or 18 he ran the cash from a book deal through one of the loopholes to save the 4% of 500k he would have had to pay for Medicare. I applaud him for taking advantage of our tax laws and *L* at his hypocrisy when he says they need to pay there fair share …

Raising corporate taxes will hurt the lower income folks there allegedly trying to protect way more than it will corp’s or folks with money … the corp’s will pass a majority of that cost on to us and just like joKe’s self inflicted rise in gas prices it will hurt the lower income families much more than it will me or U.

Good luck this winter to all the lower income households in the northeast and even down south as it gets colder down here than I would have ever imagined.

Not many on here know much at all about economics or business, I’ve shuddered for years at about 95% of what I’ve read on the entire site when it comes to economics/business and I have a pretty good idea of what I’m talking about as I have a degree in economics and have been either a business owner or consultant since shortly after I got out of the service, but I’m sure the coders, hospice workers and concrete mixers will enlighten me …