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Originally Posted by Clemdawg
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I don't think Felton is all that fast. He is slippery, but not fast.


Slippery- and quick.
There's a place for a guy like that on any team.

To be honest, I haven't seen enough of him to know if he's fast or not. Of the few glimpses I've had of him in open space, I haven't seen that 'second gear'- but that might also be due to the nature of the plays when he's broken that first tackle. Lots of times, he's juked someone near the LOS, and has to regain downfield momentum. I can't recall what he looks like when he's allowed to hit the hole full speed.

I agree. I kind of wrapped up the quick part in to the slippery comment. To me they are much the same. As for speed, i think he times around 4.58 in the 40. Not fast by todays standards. BUT...that is just a time in shorts. I think his playing speed doesn't change much, so my comment wasn't intended to make it sound like I think the guy is by any means slow. If it sounded that way, I want to make that distinction now.

I think the biggest thing we have to do with Felton is to better define his role, but that is a work in progress that time will reveal. I am not sure if running back is his position or if working more as a receiver is going to be his better role.

Either way, once that is determined, he will be a very productive player, and no doubt a player that any team would want.

Last edited by Ballpeen; 10/28/21 05:09 AM.

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But isn't his main value his versatility? He's a RB/WR hybrid (played both). I think his main selling point is he has a lot of versatility in where he can line up.


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Originally Posted by oobernoober
But isn't his main value his versatility? He's a RB/WR hybrid (played both). I think his main selling point is he has a lot of versatility in where he can line up.

Maybe.

I am not sure if you are getting max value. At least for the short term, I could seem him playing nearly every play* as a receiver and limited plays as a running back. When you start mixing the two, does that give you max value??

* Obviously other guys are going to get some plays off the bench, but all wouldn't have to come at Feltons expense.


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Obviously he's only going to give us so much this year (non-1st rounder in his rookie year). But I would think our scheme really benefits from guys like him (different plays off the same looks, and distributing the ball vs running the O through 1 or 2 dudes). I would think a hybrid guy could easily find a contributing role in this type of offense.


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maybe so...probably no "right" answer.


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Felton may not have straight line speed, but his quickness and ability to change direction is more than enough to compensate.

He plays a lot faster than his 40 time.


There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.

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Originally Posted by WooferDawg
Felton may not have straight line speed, but his quickness and ability to change direction is more than enough to compensate.

He plays a lot faster than his 40 time.

And that's what I think people should consider as valuable if not more so than straight line speed. I've seen different times reported at the 1985 NFL combine for Jerry Rice. The fastest one I've seen quoted was a 4.58. The slowest was a 4.7. His 40 time would leave many unimpressed. Yet he was one of the greatest WR's to ever play the game. I'm not trying to claim that Felton will be some great NFL player or WR. What I am saying is that basing his abilities to succeed on his 40 time is short sighted.


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Someday, they can make rookie mistakes in practice, and then there will be no need to make excuses for the rookie mistakes they make in games. Because they will get it right in games.


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Originally Posted by Iluvmyxstripper
I dont think this offense puts a emphasis on a big time pass catcher
At the WR position. Its a offense that has a run 1st mentality
Which has worked. The only issue is, is,that this is a offense
That cannot afford to fall behind by 14-pts or more.
It might be the worst WR crew in the North talent wise.
Schwartz to me looks like John Ross 2.0. A track star playing
Football.
I dont.see this front office investing big $$$$ in a FA WR.
Their analysis doesnt dictate it


Ok. I'm on board with this. I don't think any team in the AFC North would take our receiving corps. Pittsburgh and Cincinnati wouldn't start any of our receivers. Baltimore might.

It certainly seems this offense is about ball control. I don't know that it's run first, but it's emphasizing chunks of yards here and there whether it's pass or run.

I don't think we spend a ton on a FA WR. I don't know that we will use a first round pick on a WR. I think it's about finding the next Breshad Perriman.

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There are other teams who would not start - or maybe even play - any of our WRs over their own. Did you see the three-headed monster that AZ throws out there? My goodness.

When KM gets pressured, he ducks his head and chucks up a Flacco/punt and Hopkins runs under it. When he checks down, Moore runs like Tyreek Hill. AJ Green turned the wrong way at the end last night - or Murray threw it the wrong way - but he still gets open and has an impressive catch radius with great hands. (Green might be like Landry...but he's a lot bigger).

Then they steal Ertz from the Eagles.

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*L* … VG would start for every team in the league and be the #1 on a lot of them ….

Did Device or Memphis hack your account … wink




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I think I'm the only person who thinks it sucks that our WR core aren't utilized more. I know if I were a receiver, I wouldn't be too happy knowing that I'm not exactly helping the team (outside of run blocking). At this point, they're just running their route and running back to the huddle. Nobody really shines outside of our rbs. Occasionally our receivers make plays but not the plays that really impact the game. How many WR tds do we have? 2? To me that's a shame. You can't flourish in this Browns system as a WR. I'd wanna go somewhere where I'm made useful if I were any of the top receivers. When it comes contract time, they have nothing to show for it when it comes to negotiating a contract for their worth. It sucks to be them right now and I personally feel for them. We have enough talent for everybody to share the wealth.

I wish i could put the YEA I SAID IT meme on here.

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So, is it that they aren't utilized more, or is it that this is what defenses focus on taking away? That's an honest question.

I feel like our WRs have gotten a LOT of opportunities so far, but for a multitude of reasons, they just haven't connected a whole lot. Earlier in the season, we were tearing it up and getting huge chunks from them in the passing game; that is gone of late.
Is it the injuries to the WRs?
Is it the injuries to Baker?
Is it that defenses puckered a little and decided to focus on that?
Is it just unlucky things like Drops and errant passes?
Is it youthful inexperience?

Yes. It is.
Despite all of that, the offense still runs. Not nearly as well as it was at the end of last year, or even the beginning of this year, but it still runs.

I think the way Stef works is that we still try to do our thing in every game, but we also have a plan on how we want to attack an opponent and then there is what the opponent shows us early in a game with what they aren't going to have success taking away from us... and all of that intersects somewhere and that's what we roll with. We still try to get it to the WRs, but if the opponent is doing a good job of locking them out, or if they're just having a bad day as a group, or if Baker is just struggling with them, then we have gone elsewhere and occasionally come back to them, but the focus goes over to what works.


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I think injuries to Baker and the OTs have severely affected our effectiveness on O. May or may not be linked, but Baker tends to work himself into (and then out of) a funk in the first half of seasons.


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It's "possible" that passes are what the opposing D's are taking away, but it seems quite unlikely. They all know our prowess is in the run game and our OL's run blocking ability. Right now they know Bakers injury limits his ability. It would seem to me that our running game would be their priority. I agree with Oober that it has thus far this season been a combination of Bakers injury and our injuries at the OT position that has created what we are seeing now. When you combine that with the fact that we spread the ball around because we can, it limits production from any one single target. People seem to try and dismiss our WR's because they don't put up big numbers. I sort of see it the opposite way. We have so many often dependable WR's we can depend on all of them and it allows us to spread the ball around. What that does is prevent the opposing D from focusing on one or two targets which only serves to open the O up even more. When Baker is healthy that is....


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Stefanski's preference is probally of that the WRs are not the strength of skill
Positions. The Browns WRs.are ok. They are dependable pass catchers. But there is
Really no consistant explosiveness. There isnt one Browns WR that commands a double team.
If the Browns have a lead the offense can lean on the run
But if the Browns fall behind by a big deficit they don't have the goods to rally

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Good post Willie.


1. OBJ is not a star or a number one in this league anymore, both because of availability and diminishing skills, not some magical missed connection with Baker. That’s my opinion, based on that he doesn’t get open, at least quick, and he drops passes in bad situations. Baker is making reads and if he has moved on in progression, or the defense shifts in reaction to play movement and that puts OBJ out of the play it does not count (a lot of deceptive videos and reports out there). I guess when he moves on next year we will find out who is right.

2. The WR stars in this league allow absolute chuck up balls that turn into TDs. See Tyreke, Mike Williams, CeeDee Lamb, D-Hop, Mike Evans, Chase, etc. OBJ is not that guy, we have a poor mans version of that, his name is DPJ, and he rides the bench. DPJ needs to start.

3. Landry is a nice number 2, possession receiver. Not the best, but solid with great intangibles, but he is starting to show his age.

4. Higgins in a solid number 3, some explosive ability, unfortunately he also rides the bench.

5. Schwartz is a track star, not a WR. He is a backup in the NFL. Bad pick.

6. Our only true receiving star and mismatch is the Njoku. Please use him.

5. Additionally, the deficiencies in the WR core have been magnified by Baker playing like crap after injury, causing him to miss enough passes to redirect the spotlight on him as the cause of the problem.

6. Stefanski runs a QB neutering offense. Can you reach a Super Bowl like that? No one else is even trying. No downfield passing, again maybe this has been exacerbated by the injuries to both Baker and the O-line. But even in the Chiefs game, it was evident when we have to pass, the scheme is poor. Maybe Rogers could succeed in it, but not Baker.

7. Per number 6. Is it that much of a risk to 3 times per game launch a ball to DPJ? As Willie says, it has nothing to do with QB skills, just chuck it and tell the WR to make a play. Trust me there are plenty of times when the DBs will lose focus against our running game.

8. The Stefanski model is a bust if you don’t have at least a top 15 defense. It is deflating to methodically drive 80 yards, only to give up a wide open bomb.

9. My suggestion at seasons end, cut OBJ, keep Jarvis only at a discount and use your first or second rounder on a legit WR. 6’4” minimum, that actually was a star in college. WRs are a lot easier to hit on and produce immediately. Trade one of the TEs for another vet WR without significant injury history

10. The other side of the equation. Baker. He is a rhythm, fast paced, gunslinger, period (see his first year and college), and he can do it in the NFL too with the right offense (see Cards). They have tried to squeeze the round peg into a square hole, making him an uptight play action passing, game manager. It could work, see end of last year, but the offense is going to have to loosen up and take some chances. Personally, I think AVP needs to take over.

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Another thing about our WRs (I believe we were last in the league fairly recently) is that they are terrible YAC. We get hardly any yards after they secure a catch


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
Another thing about our WRs (I believe we were last in the league fairly recently) is that they are terrible YAC. We get hardly any yards after they secure a catch

I have two theories on that (was a problem last year too):

#! - It''s because they simply aren't dynamic enough to get them selves as wide open as other teams' WRs';

#2 - With no deep threat to stretch the D, the back end of the defense essentially plays with a shorter filed. Easier to defend.

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There is zero wrong with our WR core. This reminds me of all the terrible QBs we had and everyone saying the OL was bad. Couldn't be the QB.

OBJ is extremely explosive but he doesn't get the opportunities. How do you watch these games and come away with the takeaway that he's not explosive? This place is so weird.

We have a QB who is playing very average. There's nothing else. Mystery solved. The reason Arizonas big three seems "explosive" is because their QB is playing out of this world.

Having said all of that, I am always holding out hope that Baker is going to turn into a guy worthy of the1st overall pick. I'm glad he's starting on Sunday and will cheer my arse off for him and hope he has a monster game.

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Rishuz,

You don’t think the scheme plays into Murray’s success? He’s running spread and gun offense like what Baker ran at OU. Plus three chucks a game to maybe the best WR in the NFL. Baker is running the redskins offense of the 80’s.

What do you think will happen in Pittsburgh? We will run, run, short pass. No long passes will even be tried. Is that Baker’s fault? Not that I think they should try for a “monster game” out of an injured QB. Maybe they will chuck it up to OBJ and we will see if he is a star, but of late he can’t seem to catch wide open 10 yards passes on 4th down that hit him in the chest. Or even not slip on a cut.

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To nobody in particular...


I promise if the WR core hits it's stride on Sunday, Lots of opinions will change...


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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Originally Posted by Damanshot
To nobody in particular...


I promise if the WR core hits it's stride on Sunday, Lots of opinions will change...

I hope so. As of right now, I'm sitting on a dead clock.

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Bakers injury is the reason he's played so poorly. He's shown what he can do with our WR's when healthy and with a healthy O-line. One question I have. If Baker was chosen 15-20th in the 1st round instead of #1 would he get all this criticism?

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Originally Posted by Damanshot
To nobody in particular...


I promise if the WR core hits it's stride on Sunday, Lots of opinions will change...

Mine won't. The problem has existed for awhile now.

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j/c the word is CORPS, unless you're talking about the one or two WRs who would be the heart of the WR Group, in which they would be the CORE of the CORPS.

::can rest in peace, now::


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
Another thing about our WRs (I believe we were last in the league fairly recently) is that they are terrible YAC. We get hardly any yards after they secure a catch

How many yards do they get before the ball arrives! That is the whole point of a pass in football.
Otherwise it would be a run.


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Originally Posted by PrplPplEater
j/c the word is CORPS, unless you're talking about the one or two WRs who would be the heart of the WR Group, in which they would be the CORE of the CORPS.

::can rest in peace, now::
I was sure this was a discussion on the abdominal muscle group of our collective WR. wink ( A giant imaginary wr, in figurative, which exists as a compiling of the production and potential of all the WRs that make up the Wr group.)


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Originally Posted by PrplPplEater
j/c the word is CORPS, unless you're talking about the one or two WRs who would be the heart of the WR Group, in which they would be the CORE of the CORPS.

::can rest in peace, now::

There's a reason I put it in parenthesis. And yes since I was looking at our individual statistical leaders in the passing game, I was specifically referring to the one or two "core" members going forward (or the lack thereof) of our receiving corps.


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Originally Posted by GraffZ06
Originally Posted by PrplPplEater
j/c the word is CORPS, unless you're talking about the one or two WRs who would be the heart of the WR Group, in which they would be the CORE of the CORPS.

::can rest in peace, now::

There's a reason I put it in parenthesis. And yes since I was looking at our individual statistical leaders in the passing game, I was specifically referring to the one or two "core" members going forward (or the lack thereof) of our receiving corps.

Quotation marks.

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Originally Posted by cfrs15
Originally Posted by GraffZ06
Originally Posted by PrplPplEater
j/c the word is CORPS, unless you're talking about the one or two WRs who would be the heart of the WR Group, in which they would be the CORE of the CORPS.

::can rest in peace, now::

There's a reason I put it in parenthesis. And yes since I was looking at our individual statistical leaders in the passing game, I was specifically referring to the one or two "core" members going forward (or the lack thereof) of our receiving corps.

Quotation marks.

rofl

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Originally Posted by GraffZ06
Originally Posted by cfrs15
Originally Posted by GraffZ06
Originally Posted by PrplPplEater
j/c the word is CORPS, unless you're talking about the one or two WRs who would be the heart of the WR Group, in which they would be the CORE of the CORPS.

::can rest in peace, now::

There's a reason I put it in parenthesis. And yes since I was looking at our individual statistical leaders in the passing game, I was specifically referring to the one or two "core" members going forward (or the lack thereof) of our receiving corps.

Quotation marks.

rofl

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I think our receiving core, man for man is overrated.


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Agreed. And obviously because it starts with the "Top 2" WRs... both their production and cost. I will also include Hooper here as well. What we paid and what he's delivered have been wildly off.


Tackles are tackles.
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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
I think our receiving core, man for man is overrated.

Purp, he misused "core" on purpose! That should be a permanent ban. wink


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Landry is a stud - and he just this season missed his first game.

OBJ and Baker just have no repoire whatsoever. That is due to injury and timing of Covid BS...

Higgins for some reason has disappeared this season????

DPJ has bee excellent for his 6th round investment we need more of them.

Schwartz??? who knows - right now he looks a bit scared.

Hooper, is OK but nothing studly
Harrison has tiny hands for his size - I mean tiny. He has become an excellent blocker in his growth

Njoku started to get better in his blocking which got him more opportunities in receiving. This year however because of some small success he has taken a step back in those blocking skills - he still has the "potential" to be a stud but its year freaking 5??? and he is till grouped in that POTENTIAL bracket.

I agree our WR corp is over rated. but also they are way better than years past.

Passing game has no Character. Are we TEs to utilize their miss matches. Are we RBs to get in the pass game as well as run. All and I mean all have pass catching skills, Chubb, Hunt, Felton...I think this is on Ski as he has failed to develop a history of character in our passing game.

He is too stuck on his Playaction, and boot leg prowess because he has fallen into one of the best RUNNING attacks in the NFL which could survive in itself if only we had a top 3 Defense which we are trying to build but simply are not there yet. If he truly was who he portrays himself as - a Coach who would utilize the skill sets that are here...if that is true then he would simply make us great by simply going no huddle and spread the offense in the manner that Baker has shown Prowess in the past - and past I'm talking NFL my goodness build on what he did his rookie season...And in no way am I saying to abandon our great running game...I'm talking about - POOF shift gears and teams who are tired cause we just beat the crap out of them in our running attack, all of a sudden have to deal with our no huddle attack!! Keep it sharp so that when we get in some shoot em outs with Mahomes, Lamar, Burrow we have a history and skill set with this no huddle attack. Instead we got a no character air attack that we don't reallly know what we should do with it.

I can take this on for a novel if you wish but will stop here


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Higgins hasn't disappeared. He just doesn't get as many opportunities. I'd take hoggins over every WR on our roster not named Jarvis. At least as long as Baker is our QB. Higgins has by far the best QB/WR rapport on the team IMHO.


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Originally Posted by eotab
Passing game has no Character. Are we TEs to utilize their miss matches. Are we RBs to get in the pass game as well as run. All and I mean all have pass catching skills, Chubb, Hunt, Felton...I think this is on Ski as he has failed to develop a history of character in our passing game.

He is too stuck on his Playaction, and boot leg prowess because he has fallen into one of the best RUNNING attacks in the NFL which could survive in itself if only we had a top 3 Defense which we are trying to build but simply are not there yet. If he truly was who he portrays himself as - a Coach who would utilize the skill sets that are here...if that is true then he would simply make us great by simply going no huddle and spread the offense in the manner that Baker has shown Prowess in the past - and past I'm talking NFL my goodness build on what he did his rookie season...And in no way am I saying to abandon our great running game...I'm talking about - POOF shift gears and teams who are tired cause we just beat the crap out of them in our running attack, all of a sudden have to deal with our no huddle attack!! Keep it sharp so that when we get in some shoot em outs with Mahomes, Lamar, Burrow we have a history and skill set with this no huddle attack. Instead we got a no character air attack that we don't reallly know what we should do with it.

You are spot on, Tab. And I agree with the no huddle looks. Ski has neglected our WRs (imo).

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"
OBJ and Baker just have no repoire whatsoever. That is due to injury and timing of Covid BS..."

I was at the game and sitting where I could see the whole play develop. OBJ gets open, Baker either can't see him, or he isn't looking at him. I no longer will put any of the blame on OBJ. Our whole section was pointing out how open he was on several occasions, Mayfield just doesn't go to him.


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Our Receiving "Core" SUCKS!

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