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Exactly. Anybody who watches this game knows baker wasn’t the reason we lost yesterday. But the entire passing attack is out of sync. The one consistency we have despite injuries has been the run game. But for whatever reason our coach goes long spurts with baker mayfield in empty sets with no threat of PA.

The best guess is that Stefanski has been wildly inconsistent with his play calling this year. No unit can establish any sort of rhythm. Our best playmakers go long stretches without touching the ball.

This game? If our defense didn’t hold them to 15 points, it would’ve been a blowout, cause we did next to nothing on O.


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Based on what I was hearing from the radio call, I think Johnson was spelling Chubb. I think they were easing him back and using Johnson to limit his snap count. Just my guess, though.

Felton, I would imagine, is kind of a different beast. My guess is they have plays that look to use his potential versatility. He looked good early on in the season, so I don't really see the point in ragging on him in a game where the whole offense really couldn't get its feet under itself.

The one thing I can say about Felton is that I've seen just about enough of him on returns. WAAAAAAY too much dancing, side-to-side, and even backwards on these returns. If the dude can't catch it and head forward, we have others that will.


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KS didn't all of a sudden forget how to call plays. Things seemed to be OK before these injuries. Maybe that's it. Maybe there is no downfield passing attack because KS is afraid that Baker will get hit and be out for the year. The Pats beat the Chargers yesterday and really had no business winning at their place. I feel we should have won in LA too but we didn't because our guys were in and out of the lineup getting hurt. We ran for over 200 yards that game and won the TOP by 13 minutes not to mention we didn't turn the ball over. I don't get it. Frustrating

Last edited by Homewood Dog; 11/01/21 10:50 AM.
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I dunno I just think Johnson earned more playing time over Felton. And yea Felton on punt returns is a disaster.

But I believe Johnson should be getting atleast 3/4 of the touches Kareem got.


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To be fair to the O, you could tell from the jump that guys were laggy because they were clearly playing injured.

That being said, if you’re gonna be out there, be out there. Cause if injuries are that big of a problem, they shouldn’t be playing cause it only hurts our team.

And that’s why I don’t blame baker for this game. He had PLENTY of zip on the ball yesterday. And having bad knees like Jarvis isn’t an excuse for his hands disappearing.

But having clearly injured players running routes is on the HC, is it not? That lack of discipline that has us leading the league in penalty yards is on the HC, is it not?

Last edited by Swish; 11/01/21 10:53 AM.

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We need to get more aggressive with our passing attack. We can still be run first but when we pass do what we were doing last year and against KC as long as Baker can do so with his shoulder. I guess that is the ? and maybe the problem.

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The injuries have to be the problem. Our guys didn't suddenly forget how to play or get too old to play. I know if I went to work sick or hurt I couldn't do as much as I normally could. It's worse trying to play football and I'm sure KS and the players don't want to use it as an excuse. I'm frustrated like every other Browns fan but I can't help but think that If we can get somewhat healthy and sneak into the playoffs we can make some noise.

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I saw in Twitter-land something that I really agreed with. Basically they were like, 'alright... the docs are fine with him playing, coach is fine with him playing, he is fine with him playing... Case is just coming off a win with as little prep as you can get... so I don't want to hear any excuses for Baker that involve his injury'. I 100% buy that line of thinking.

Baker's overall performance yesterday isn't going to change anyone's opinion of him (good or bad).


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Well he did play pretty good and his stats would have been better without the drops. He would even have had a TD pass.

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I’m tired of the orbital motion from Felton. That ship has sailed.


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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
I’m tired of the orbital motion from Felton. That ship has sailed.

Yep - this motion with Felton feels like it's the replacement for what was the arbitrary OBJ run/sweep that got used in a bunch of games to get OBJ the ball.

I get that if you show the same thing over and over and add wrinkles - you can confuse your opponent etc ... but neither play really has done much for us. It's a bit like the empty backfield sets that may have got us some first downs here or there - but overall I'd say underwhelming.


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I beleive the Browns lost this game in 3 short yardage plays.

#1 - Browns leading 3-0 driving again with momentum just past mid field and went for a 4th and 1 and the Steelers stuffed Chubb for a loss and then drove and tied the game at 3.

#2 - Trailing 10-3 and momentum with the Browns the Steelers just short of mid field had a 4th and 1 and a with a second effort surge Najee Harris got the 1st down and the Steelers went on for TD and made the game 10-9

#3 - With the score 10-9 Browns after getting a couple 1st downs the Browns had a 4th and 1 at mid field. Then attempted to draw the Steelers off sides and when they could not get the Steelers to jump they punted. This game was won and lost in the trenches. The Steelers won the Line of scrimmage battle and won the game.

Was it injuries? Was it effort? Did the Steelers want this game more? Bottom line was they mad ethe plays and the Browns did not!


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Delton is 2nd in the NFL in punt return yards. He is much lower in PR average, but a lot of the guys ahead of him have single digit returns, some having only 1 or 2.

I hope he learns to get the punt wrapped up a bit better, as he has muffed a couple.

Last year, for the whole season, we had 115 PR yards. We were 28th in PR yards, and 30th in PR average. Felton already has almost double that so far this year. We, as a team, are 2nd in the NFL in PR yardage.

I do think that Felton needs to learn to fair catch the ones where he is about to get crushed, though.

As far as the game yesterday, the defense did its job. The offense did not. I do not understand why Ski didn't use Johnson more. Chubb didn't look like himself, especially late.

I am really ... ticked off ... at all the stupid penalties. We are near the top of the league in penalties. I am also ticked off at the general malpractice on offense. Missed passes, dropped passes, general appearance of a lack of preparation and discipline. I think this ticks me off the most. That and what certainly appears to be poor game planning.

There's still time to get this straightened out, but time is fast running out. We are in last place. That ought to set off a ton of alarm belles in Berea.


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Pittsburgh is not a very good team , and neither are we evidently.


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A bright spot!


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So Baker is the problem. Clearly.

What was OBJ grade out of interest ... I cannot see.

Last edited by mgh888; 11/01/21 11:46 AM.

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Guys. I’m going hard on Stefanski but let me be clear like I said yesterday: the doom and gloom gotta stop.

The AFC is wiiiiide open. Everybody has flaws, and there’s plenty of time to right the ship and go on a 2nd half run.

We’re talking about all the injuries, well the Titans just lost what’s possibly the biggest injury in the Afc: Derrick Henry.

We have time AND a whole bye week soon. And I dunno bout the rest of you but I’ll take a low seed wild card spot. Cause back to back playoff appearances is far more important. Once the playoffs begin, anything can happen.


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OBJ: 52.0

Landry: 52.3

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Current playoff predictions through week 8 (NYG/KC still to play):

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2021-nfl-predictions/

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Originally Posted by Swish
Guys. I’m going hard on Stefanski but let me be clear like I said yesterday: the doom and gloom gotta stop.

The AFC is wiiiiide open. Everybody has flaws, and there’s plenty of time to right the ship and go on a 2nd half run.

We’re talking about all the injuries, well the Titans just lost what’s possibly the biggest injury in the Afc: Derrick Henry.

We have time AND a whole bye week soon. And I dunno bout the rest of you but I’ll take a low seed wild card spot. Cause back to back playoff appearances is far more important. Once the playoffs begin, anything can happen.

I agree with all this - but I also understand the disappointment and what feels like regression compared to last year. I do think injuries are probably the single biggest issue and players playing through injuries that are having a serious impact. Despite the numbers I'm sticking with the optics and say the D is concerning ... next week vs Burrows and a dynamic set of receivers might be a real litmus test, to me keeping Cinci to under 24 would be a victory on D.

But 4 more games before the bye week and back to back weeks vs the Ravens. Hopefully those games are meaningful and will be part of what defines the season.


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First, anyone blaming a D that gave up 15 points or the DC that coached them yesterday must be some kind of moron. When you give up 15 point there's no way you should lose that game. Period.

Secondly, I watched the throws the team decided to release this week of Baker throwing the ball at practice. One was an intermediate pass. All the rest were Case Keenum throws. The same short throws we see Case make all the time. Baker's injury does not allow for anyone to call deep ball passes. That's the way it is and that's how it will remain until that shoulder has time to heal. You can blame Stefanski for that all you like but that won't change the reality of the situation and it's been that way since Baker became injured. As of now Baker and Case are the same QB. This will be the situation we face every week for the rest of the season. No matter which QB we start we are limited to the passes they can make. Our opponents know this. Take your frustrations any way you like on whoever you like if you can't comprehend this. It seems as though most of you are and probably will moving forward.


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We've been hearing this same tired line for years now....

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I do hear what you're saying. But what can you hang your hat on from that last game when talking about the rest of the season?


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Originally Posted by oobernoober
I do hear what you're saying. But what can you hang your hat on from that last game when talking about the rest of the season?


That our defense is playoff caliber. We have a top 5 defense and a super talented O that needs to get their heads and bodies right.


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Secondly, I watched the throws the team decided to release this week of Baker throwing the ball at practice. One was an intermediate pass. All the rest were Case Keenum throws. The same short throws we see Case make all the time. Baker's injury does not allow for anyone to call deep ball passes. That's the way it is and that's how it will remain until that shoulder has time to heal. You can blame Stefanski for that all you like but that won't change the reality of the situation and it's been that way since Baker became injured. As of now Baker and Case are the same QB. This will be the situation we face every week for the rest of the season. No matter which QB we start we are limited to the passes they can make. Our opponents know this. Take your frustrations any way you like on whoever you like if you can't comprehend this. It seems as though most of you are and probably will moving forward.

Uh...no...just...no.

Baker with his left arm tied to his chest protector has twice the arm that Keenum possesses.

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Originally Posted by Rishuz
Originally Posted by DaveyD
Also, I remember when Baker would throw balls to his receivers as soon as he saw the Defensive player turn his back. Whatever happened to that Baker? Do we have end zone fades in our playbook?

I think Stefanski has to bear some responsibility for Baker's failures. Baker doesn't do anything well anymore.

The Browns season is over. You can't win with this kind of incompetence at the head coach and QB positions. Here's what I would do for next season ...

1. Trade or release OBJ. It's not working and I think it's making things worse for Baker.

2. Turn over playcalling duties to AVP. We need a CEO coach, not someone who only pays attention to one side of the ball.

3. Let Baker and AVP tweak the offense. I would prefer we ran something closer to Cincy and Buffalo where the QB is the focal point.

4. Hire an experienced DC.
Basically you tell Stefanski that he WILL turn over play calling to AVP or he's gone. At that point, I think he leaves (due to his massive ego) but if that's what it takes then so be it. AVP and Baker working together might be better overall (even though I still don't see Baker as the guy who will LEAD the team to a title).


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Originally Posted by Swish
Originally Posted by oobernoober
I do hear what you're saying. But what can you hang your hat on from that last game when talking about the rest of the season?


That our defense is playoff caliber. We have a top 5 defense and a super talented O that needs to get their heads and bodies right.



There is not one thing special about our defense...I don't care what the stats show. Some players? Sure. The defense? No.

We do not have a super talented O. Not even close. Maybe we could without the injuries...but we still do not have ONE special pass-catching weapon. Our best WR lost the game for us yesterday...maybe even twice. Our super-talented WR made a business decision at the goal line...which probably saved Woods' butt from giving up a game-winning TD anyway.

We don't do anything well except run the ball...and we are too banged up to do that. Our kicker is quite good. That's about it...right now anyway.

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Originally Posted by WSU Willie
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Secondly, I watched the throws the team decided to release this week of Baker throwing the ball at practice. One was an intermediate pass. All the rest were Case Keenum throws. The same short throws we see Case make all the time. Baker's injury does not allow for anyone to call deep ball passes. That's the way it is and that's how it will remain until that shoulder has time to heal. You can blame Stefanski for that all you like but that won't change the reality of the situation and it's been that way since Baker became injured. As of now Baker and Case are the same QB. This will be the situation we face every week for the rest of the season. No matter which QB we start we are limited to the passes they can make. Our opponents know this. Take your frustrations any way you like on whoever you like if you can't comprehend this. It seems as though most of you are and probably will moving forward.

Uh...no...just...no.

Baker with his left arm tied to his chest protector has twice the arm that Keenum possesses.

Baker is not playing well, he has not been since the start of the season. He is injured, and it shows. His balls are all over the place, its not just the deep balls, he is not throwing well and he is very limited and other teams know this.

Baker is playing and I suspect its not Stefansky decision...

When you don´t respect the game and do not play your 2 best players from the last game to their full extent, this kind of stuff happens.

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Yet for the most part they're making the exact same throws. Let's not pretend that's the way it was before his injury. It certainly wasn't an air raid offense. And we certainly weren't attempting a lot of deep balls. But there's not a lot of difference in what they're doing now. Baker certainly has twice the arm. But with the injury he lacks the ability to use it.


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I remember (1) poorly thrown ball yesterday. I remember (5) easy drops and one business decision that the "star" receivers in the league make all day on Sunday.

Baker had (11) incompletions yesterday and I just described (7) of them.

He's injured...he's limited...he still brought us back TWICE at the end...only to have other star players drop the ball.

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I agree with much of what you said. But Baker made throws yesterday that Keenum couldn't make unless they were 10 yards shorter. We have the same basic problem that we had last year - a lack of dynamic pass-catchers. Last year, we could overcome the injury bug...this year we can't...so far anyway.

I'm afraid others are putting eggs in the DPJ basket. He's getting better...but he doesn't really get open either. He's big and will fight for the ball...and will actually catch the ball. So that's an improvement. But he alone won't move the needle.

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Originally Posted by WSU Willie
I remember (1) poorly thrown ball yesterday. I remember (5) easy drops and one business decision that the "star" receivers in the league make all day on Sunday.

Baker had (11) incompletions yesterday and I just described (7) of them.

He's injured...he's limited...he still brought us back TWICE at the end...only to have other star players drop the ball.

I agree with this. We were in position to win. Drops and a fumble killed us.

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Delpit was a top 5 player for us yesterday? Not a good sign


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I don't think it's actually the pass catchers in a bubble that's the problem. I think working as a cohesive unit and team chemistry is as important as anything. I mean unless you think that Landry and Higgins just suddenly forgot how to catch the ball. Now if you're speaking about taking the top off of a defense then there's a point I think you could easily debate. But when you have sure handed WR's that just suddenly don't seem that sure handed anymore, there's something deeper going on IMO.


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Suffice it to say I don't agree with you.

Defense go the job done yesterday (ie only let up 15 points), but I think to call that 'playoff caliber' is a MASSIVE overstatement. When Pitt needed drives they went through our D like a hot knife through butter. This D rarely takes the ball away and gives up big chunk plays when the other team needs it most. Other times they're just not covering people.

Given the talent we have, we absolutely SHOULD be a playoff-caliber D (and O).


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Blame game Monday.

Players have to make plays that are there to be made.

First drive was beautiful till Hooper misses a catchable ball. Result field goal instead of a TD.

Jarvis had a bad day. He knows it. Normally he makes those catches and does not fumble.
Result was points not made in a 5 point loss.

Defense held a team to 15 points. A team should win when you do that.

Turnovers. We had one that cost us big time. The Steelers had none.

Drops. We had to many at least 5. Catch the damn ball.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Defensive scheme. Sometimes I do not understand what we are doing.

On second down and ten we were playing press man on the outside. OK.
Third and 6 we are playing off man on the outside. We got beat easy for a first down.

Red zone near the ten. Pre-snap wide four man front. Huge A gaps.
Both Walker and Smith post snap move to the B and C gaps and are out of the play. Runner hits the A gap for a easy score?????

On defense both 3 and 4th down way to many times; we can not get off the field.

On offense in the same situations we are not converting.

This is not from just yesterday. It has become a pattern.

When Conklin went down. Hance had no chance against Watt. KS adjusted and loaded double TE on the right side.

We ran plays to that side and used Watt's rush against him.

If we play a clean game. We would have won. We didn't and lost.

It is not the fault of Baker. It is not the fault of KS. The players failed to make the plays that were there to be made.
That is all it takes to lose a close game when the other team does not make mistakes.
=========================================================================

It is not the time to panic. But of course on the Board classic over reactions.
Fire KS. AVP should call the plays. Woods has to go. And the go to "It's Baker's fault. "

There are many on here that are certainly entitled to their "opinion." But honestly have no clue what they are talking about.


2 members like this: Hammer, PitDAWG
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