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1st String
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OP
1st String
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I was just on the Cleveland Indians website and noticed in the mailbag that the Indians may be interested in Jason Bay, who the Pirates have stated they will be shopping around.
Supposively, a pitcher and a prospect or two would do it... The names thrown out there were Cliff Lee, Trevor Crowe, and Chuck Lofgren. If something were to escalte from this, I would personally hate to see Lofgren go. I would much rather package in Lee, Laffey or Sowers, and Crowe. Crowe is a nice prospect, but Bay would be better in left. We may also be able to throw in Choo or someone like that. If we can get Bay there is no need to keep Crowe, Choo, and Francisco. Retain one and let the other two go.
I would love to see Bay in an Indians uniform. Yeah he had a down year last year, but he's a very good player.
Two others name thrown around in this section were Carl Crawford and Josh Hamilton. It would likely take more to get Crawford, which would more than likely take one of the best two pitchers out of out minor league system (Lofgren and Miller) and with CC possibly on his way out and the ups and downs of Sowers and Lee, we can't afford to let either go. Hamilton would be much easier to pull away from the Reds, but injuries and consistency scare me.
What's everyone's take on this?
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Being a pirates fan, I'd be sad to see him go. He's such a great young player. His impact will be great and might put you guys over the hump to the world series.
But Cleveland better give up a lot of good prospects for him.
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Hall of Famer
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The indians need a power hitting corner out fielder...and Jason Bay could be that.
I think Lee, Laffey/Sowers, Crowe would get it done too.
you had a good run Hank.
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1st String
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OP
1st String
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Quote:
The indians need a power hitting corner out fielder...and Jason Bay could be that.
I think Lee, Laffey/Sowers, Crowe would get it done too.
I hope it would!!! I don't know how much Indians fans know about Lofgren, but he is a future power lefty... hate to see him go.
I guess I've always envisioned CC, Fausto, Miller, Lofgren, Westbrook...
Therefore, Sowers, Lee, and Laffey are options. I would possibly think about trading Sowers, Laffey, Lee, and Crowe for Bay and a reliever.
This off-season is going to be very interesting.
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I'd rather hold on to our prospects and trade them to add depth to our pitching staff first, we could use a starter and a closer first. Adding another power hitter would be nice but pitching wins championships.
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Dawg Talker
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Lofgren has a good arm, tops out around 94, but he also has the best change-up in the system, by far. I remember listening to the Futures Game last year and they talked non-stop about his change-up (and his poise). His numbers weren't great, but they were still good at AA. I really don't want to lose him. I don't want to lose Laffey either, actually. 23 year-olds in the majors tend to project pretty well. Even though he doesn't have the best stuff, he's got more than enough to be successful. That being said, if a package of Lee, Sowers, Crowe/Barton, etc. are enough to get it done, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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Legend
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Quote:
I'd rather hold on to our prospects and trade them to add depth to our pitching staff first, we could use a starter and a closer first. Adding another power hitter would be nice but pitching wins championships.
Good quote, my friend.
Now you can go back and find a few times where I've thrown the mold away after "such-and-such" a statement, but that right there was hot stuff during Hot Stove,....let the rest grovel. The Tribe does not need to add another power hitter,...just get the one(s) you have to HIT !!!
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All Pro
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All Pro
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Quote:
The indians need a power hitting corner out fielder...and Jason Bay could be that.
I think Lee, Laffey/Sowers, Crowe would get it done too.
I have no interest in Jason Bay. I want them to get Miguel Cabrera.
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Besides Bay, the name I've heard come up is Aaron Harang (Reds)
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Quote:
Quote:
The indians need a power hitting corner out fielder...and Jason Bay could be that.
I think Lee, Laffey/Sowers, Crowe would get it done too.
I have no interest in Jason Bay. I want them to get Miguel Cabrera.
For a year and then he leaves for NYY, BOS, LAA? You can't morgage the future for one year, it's not what we can do. Being a mid market team, we need to get players that have MULTIPLE years left on their contract.
Trading for Miguel Cabrera would be great for this year...but destroy this team in the long run.
you had a good run Hank.
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Quote:
Besides Bay, the name I've heard come up is Aaron Harang (Reds)
Its sad to me that you even have to put up (Reds) He has been the most under rated pitcher these past two years.  But, Harang is going no where. We just signed him to a huge deal last offseason. It would take a lot more than you are willing to give to get Harang. I'm talking Grady and a good pitcher. That may seem rediculous to you, but that is how we value him. And the last two years no team has won a higher percentage of games when a certain pitcher is on the mound than the Reds have with Harang.
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I'm talking Grady and a good pitcher.
Grady Sizemore and a good pitcher for Aaron Harang?
Wow...either you are really overvaluing him or i'm missing a CY Young canidate in the NL. I can be sure that Shap would hang up the phone as soon as he heard that.
you had a good run Hank.
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Legend
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Legend
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Sizemore just won a Gold Glove, and you don't trade away Gold Glove centerfielders unless he's awful at the plate.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Practice Squad
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Sizemore and a good pitcher for Harang? That is crazy. Maybe I'd give up a good pitcher for Harang but that's it. If the Reds value him that much it explains how they continue to be one of the worst teams in baseball.
As for Bay I wouldn't be against giving a few prospects for him. It's our time to win it right now and adding Bay could very well put us over the hump.
Our lineup would once again be absolutely stacked!
![[Linked Image from img339.imageshack.us]](http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4044/changerd3.jpg) Eric "Easy E" Wright and KW2- Bringing the attitude back to Browns football
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Harang is Cincy's ace, he is consistantly top 5 in strikeouts, and hes about the only good pitcher they have. Cincy probably wouldn't even accept Grady and a good pitcher because our outfield is already overcrowded with Griffey, Dunn, Hamilton, Hopper, Freel, and Jay Bruce about a year away.
Besides Harang we have Arroyo (who had an off year) and Bailey (who hasn't proved anything). That's it. That is why it would have to be a lopsided deal to give up Harang, without him the Reds lose a lot more games.
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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Just clickin,
Like others have said it would take alot for the REDS to trade Harang. The REDS realize that being in the weak NL Central that if they can get a little bit better pitching they can contend for the NL Central title. With that said, Harang has been their best pitcher by far over the last 2 years and even received some Cy Young consideration both years. He's averaged 16 wins, over 230 innings pitched with a 3.75 ERA and over 215 Ks. To get Harang you would have to give up someone who can put up similar numbers plus another pitcher who the REDS see some upside with.
#gmstrong
Live, Love, Laugh
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"... Cincy probably wouldn't even accept Grady and a good pitcher because our outfield is already overcrowded with Griffey, Dunn, Hamilton, Hopper, Freel, and Jay Bruce about a year away."
OK with us...the fans would run Shapiro out of town if he traded Grady to the Reds for any one player on that team.
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The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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All Pro
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Quote:
For a year and then he leaves for NYY, BOS, LAA?
Obviously we would have to agree to a long-term deal first. If he's available, we have a chance to fix the mistake of letting Manny walk. Bay and his .247 average and 141 Ks is garbage compared to Cabrera.
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Your mistaken we didn't let Manny walk, we offered him a contract and he declined it and took an offer from the Red Sox for a little more money. Manny left us, we didn't let him go.
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Sizemore and a good pitcher for Harang
 I just soiled my pants laughing so hard at that....
Sounds likes a Fantasy game trade
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Legend
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Made buy a last place team.  
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Your mistaken we didn't let Manny walk, we offered him a contract and he declined it and took an offer from the Red Sox for a little more money. Manny left us, we didn't let him go.
Right. 
http://sports.espn.go.com/page2/tvlistings/show38transcript.html
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ESPN had a documentary on the negotiations, camera crews watching Moorad work and recording it. The Tribe offered 8 years, $160 million, just like the Red Sox. Manny opted for Boston. This is why it boggles my mind when people cheer for Manny when he comes back to the Jake, but boo Thome (who was offered around $45 million more than the Tribe offer).
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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I am right, why the roll eyes is beyond me. The contract offer we proposed was fair, and actually I was shocked that we did make an offer because I thought his value was out of our ballpark, but I was wrong, he was offered an excellent deal by us. I have no idea bout that article or conversation you posted, but I remember first hand what took place.
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All Pro
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but I remember first hand what took place.
So do I. I was in college at UMass at the time and got daily updates in the local news. Now I've had to watch him get two rings since in a Boston uniform.
Fact is, regardless of how you and John Hart want to spin it, Ramirez left for Boston and it should never have happened. If Cabrera is available, we have a second chance with the same kind of hitter but at age 24.
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Thats the OTL I was talking about with Ramirez. How can you read that and say they let him walk? Very similar money, albeit with more deferred.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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I never said we let Manny walk. I know the money was similar, I was correcting someone else who thought we just let Manny go, matter of fact your post after my initial comments validated my statement. Were on the same page.
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Quote:
Quote:
Sizemore and a good pitcher for Harang
I just soiled my pants laughing so hard at that....
Sounds likes a Fantasy game trade
It may seem ridiculous to you, but that is probably what it would take. It may not be fair, but that is how highly the reds value Harang. And by the way Harang has been in the running for Cy Young the past two years. This last year however there were some spectacular pitchers. Like I said, the past two years no team has won more games with a certain pitcher pitching than the reds have with Harang.
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Harang is a solid pitcher but there's now way in hell he's worth what many around the league consider to be the best young all-around player in baseball.
Sizemore is one of the few untouchable players in MLB IMO. I honestly don't think there's a deal out there that would prompt Shapiro to deal him, especially given his incredibly reasonable contract.
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Where did you hear that?
Last edited by Referee2; 11/07/07 10:00 PM.
Eat it Phil...
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No doubt......I'd do that yesterday.
Last edited by Referee2; 11/07/07 10:01 PM.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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First off, Harang is more than a solid pitcher. He is a Cy Young caliber player. I'm not going to say that he should have won it last year, but he is that good. And like I said asking for that may not be reasonable but that is what it would take to get him.
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Quote:
Like I said, the past two years no team has won more games with a certain pitcher pitching than the reds have with Harang.
That's easy when you don't win many games...
Joe Thomas made Justin Timberlake change his name. He didn't want wusses to have the same initials...
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Your mistaken we didn't let Manny walk, we offered him a contract and he declined it and took an offer from the Red Sox for a little more money. Manny left us, we didn't let him go.
Only thing I know is if Manny was hitting 4th for us instead of the Sox we would probably be World Champs now. 
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Jason Bay in an Indians uniform???
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