DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2021 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 7 Patriots 45 Post game thoughts

How the hell is Van Pelt going to help?

Today was just all around bad. The only thing consistent with this team is inconsistency.

This team does not play catchup football.

Is the local media being too nice?

The Lions should have beaten Baltimore and almost beat Pittsburgh. We should be their 1st victory.

Anyone else think Landry was playing hurt? Looked like every catch he made he went down immediately to avoid getting hit, he was a total non factor, guess he doesn't want to be here any more

I see some people saying “who replaces Woods if we fire him” … honestly, can it be worse? I’d give Wade Phillips a call. Guarantee we would be better with him.

To have Garret, Clowney, JOK, JJ3, Harrison, Ward, Delpit, Newsome and be this bad? Inexcusable

Keenum needs to start on Sunday. I don't care what Mayfield says, he could use the rest, and he seems to be pressing out there instead of letting the game come to him. If Mayfield plays and gets outplayed by Goff and the Browns lose...I don't even want to THINK about the potential meltdown that this board would have.

Random aside: Would it really be that far fetched if Berry wanted to choose his own QB? He didn't actually draft Mayfield, did he?

Wade Phillips would be good here with all this talent. Actually, Rex Ryan could turn this D around really quick but he comes with too much baggage and would want the HC job. We don't need more trouble By the way, we are 5-19 against Detroit lifetime. We always have had trouble beating them.

It would be STUPID to fire a defensive coordinator in these circumstances.

It shouldn't even be mentioned.

Well, it might be stupid to keep going the way we are. We won't win anything playing the way we've been on D.

Landry is hurt yet he is out there trying.

I mean I think it's really this simple.

We have an elite run-blocking OLine, and two super elite RB's in Chubb and Hunt. When they're healthy and get going early, and we can play either even or with the lead - we're really good. We can run clock to minimize the time our D is on the field giving up points. We can play-action pass off the running game, and as the opponents D gets into time, down and distances that call for being more aggressive with blitzing etc we screen and draw them for chunks. It's a beautiful concept when it works.

HOWEVER

If we ever have to play from behind, or we can't rely on Chubb/Hunt? We're completely screwed. We have neither the WR's nor the QB to throw ourselves all the way down the field and score points when we absolutely have to - especially when the opponent D knows we're throwing. With some of the injuries to our OLine, we've found our backups struggling in pass protection (as many do) in these obvious passing situations as well.

Our defense? We're completely and wholly reliant on our secondary being able to hold up and stop their passing early. If they can, then we unleash Garrett and our pass-rush. When they aren't shutting down the opposing teams passing game early - we start playing very soft, passive, rarely blitzing and basically allowing teams to methodically march down the field on us at will.

You can see how both on O or D - things can snowball in a hurry - both good and bad. It's why we can look so good against KC/LAC/Cincy (on O) or Minnesota/Cincy (on D) and so TERRIBLE in other games.

You average out the good games with the bad games - and you have a 500 team, with a league average QB. Exactly what we are.

(FWIW I think Arizona and New England will end up the two best teams we play all year once the season is done - so getting blown out by them won't be all that surprising for a 500 ball club)

Go back and watch the wildcard playoff game from last season . Pelt called that game cause stefanski had covid. Its was a balanced attack. When stefanski calld plsysays we only see balance if la few big plays get us a big or decent lead. If the game is close, stefanski seems to panic and get pass happy

Could we stop saying the Offensive line and running backs are automatically good, I mean, every game is it's own game.
Chubb nor Hunt did much to help them win today, they were both unable to play. The Offensive line gave up a sack on 4th down after a sack with a holding penalty on 3rd down.

I'm still so upset that the refs allowed that pass to Hunter Henry where a correct call would be that Mack Wilson successfully defended that pass.
It was a thing of beauty to see Mack Wilson, hustle, grab the receivers arm but only after the ball arrived so it wasn't pass intereference, and kept the receiver from closing his hands around the ball as they fell to the ground, causing the ball to hit the turf.

A 25 yard gain. You have to make players catch the ball otherwise perfect defense like that was. It's just fair play the ground cannot be the cause of a catch.

I think it's a little extreme to give up on Stefanski, but I do agree his play calling has been head scratching at times. I'm with others on thinking Van Pelt deserves a shot at taking the reigns there. Hopefully he can get a shot at that before the year is over so we can see where we stand next year at OC. Doubt it though.


Joe Woods can go fly a kite though. I'm sick of watching screens and mis directions working at will against his defense.

We'll be back next year, just gotta suffer through these last few games. Oh well.

Does Higgins still play for the Browns?

Not when we're in 13 personnel he doesn't.

My postgame thoughts? I am embarrassed as a Browns fan. All I saw was the first half. I had some stuff to do around the house and planned on doing it after the game. At halftime I figured that I should not be more invested in the game than the coaching staff, so I got going on what I needed to do.

I've seen this movie before. Wildly inaccurate passing, The D's inability to get off the field on 3rd down. Lackluster performance all around. Though the punter seemed to be doing well.

Absolutely no adjustments. The plays that worked against us earlier in the season continue to work against us. The plays the worked against us early in the game continue to work against us. Because we do not adjust.

We ran well on that first drive. Then go empty backfield on a lot of plays?

We've been outcoached a lot more often than we have not been.

As it's headed now, 8-9 is the best we can hope for.

That reminds me, was the play action pass available.

Baker still having issues looking off his first reads and not seeing wide open receivers. This interception was the worst decision throwing into double coverage and not seeing wide open receivers.
My guess was he was trying to get the 1st down and forcing the issue.

Ugh, wish I wouldn't have seen that. He just rarely wants to take the quick outlet, always wants to force it downfield.

Baker is not a "franchise" QB. He is a middle of the pack guy, who is able at times, when things are perfect, to look really good. He IMO, is going to become a back up like Colt McCoy. A guy who can come in and handle a game, but never be the guy who can lead the team. I like his work habits, his moxy, and his drive, but he just can't take the team on his back and win a game. If he is hurt, then sit him.

I'm not trying to suggest he was the problem today, that was all on the defense and the pitiful tackling. The soft coverage, and playing a defense where if the RB breaks the line of scrimmage, there is nobody there to stop him. And if they are there, they are grabbing the ball and being carried five yards down the field. Their RB would have four Browns defenders on him, and all of them are standing straight up and grabbing the ball. Nobody is going for the tackle. It was maddening.

This game reminded me of the Pittsburgh game, where the team just looked like they didn't really care. Something is amiss in the locker room. I always liked Stephanski, but it sure feels like he is losing his team.

After Baltimore pummels them two games in a row, things are going to get ugly. Time to draft a big fast WR, and a LB, that can tackle someone who isn't already five yards down field. And yes, rid this team of Joe Woods defensive strategy.

This is exactly how I see it, as well.

So many times we see Baker not taking easy completions

Baker is not a middle of the pack QB. He's bottom quartile, and I think that might actually be high.

Charles Robinson posted a good article today about the similarities with Baker and Mariota and the difficult decision he put the Titans in. It was pretty spot on.

On a somewhat related side note, I think the fan base is not getting it. I continue to read post after post about Stefanski abandoning the run, empty backfield, etc. If your quarterback cannot function with an empty backfield that's a problem.

Well, atleast baker is better than Sam darnold?

Guys it’s becoming impossible to defend baker much more. The dude was double clutching all game and that interception was the epitome of horrible.

As of right now, there is no evidence to suggest baker has the ability to carry this team on his back.

I mean damn, Mac Jones looked far better than baker. Why is the rookie more decisive than our 4th year #1 pick? Lemme guess, it’s still OBJs fault, and Stefanski, and injuries, and the team we played, and the wrong astrology sign or something.

jc

This forum is a joke.

Last week we were talked about like the second coming of Christ.

This week we are talked about like a dumpster fire.

Can we just get some consistancy please? Or not hurl ourselves off cliffs?

That's what everyone wants from the Browns...consistency.

The Browns have achieved that. They are consistently inconsistent.

It's always like this on Sunday night after a bad game.
And it's always like last Sunday night after a big win.
We're fan(atic)s. And we're incredibly consistent.

And never, ever, ever hang out in "Gameday" in Real Time.

The two extremes you described are on-point.
CLE is a .500 team.
As always, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

GrafZ06 nailed the 2021 Browns a few posts earlier. I hated today's game, but I'm not scouting tall buildings as launch pads or eyeing razor blades as suitable alternatives to Monday morning.

I think for the first time in forever I'm not going to watch the game next week. Considering going off roading instead. If they win I'll watch on gamepass. If they lose my day will not have been ruined.

Rish, you'll watch, the Browns are a vice we all can't kick.

I'll be at the game <cringe emoji>. They'll win, its perfectly within their M.O. to win a game like this. Backs against the wall, inferior opponent.

The litmus test is against the Ravens the following week on SNF. Another opportunity to prove the naysayers wrong.

Snippet from Jason Lloyd's article in The Athletic...

Yes, the Browns have talent on both sides of the ball. No, they are not a good football team. They lead the league in pre-snap penalties, which is a direct reflection on discipline and coaching. They’re 28th defensively in third downs — only the Dolphins, Chargers, Falcons and Washington allow opponents to convert more often. The only other teams in the bottom 10 with legitimate playoff hopes (Chargers, Chiefs and Buccaneers) all rank in the top six in third-down conversion rates on offense. The Browns are 23rd. They were a pitiful 1 for 11 on third downs Sunday.

And so it begins, this two-month march into the wilderness. After the winless Lions visit next Sunday, the final six games are all against current playoff teams. This has the potential to get worse before it gets better.

The Browns spent about $30 million to upgrade this defense. Similarly, so much more was expected from the offense.

Expectations in November match Cleveland’s temperature today. Everything is falling.

Bro- please take this in the spirit in which it's intended: as a fellow fan who has lived through all the same stuff you have:
"If a Browns loss ruins your entire Sunday, you still don't know how to be a real Browns fan."

I used VHS to time-shift my Browns games ever since The Return. I did it for 3 reasons:

1. I work on Sundays. Often. If I wanted to see a game in 1999 or 2002, VHS was my godsend.
2. It kept peace in the house. Wife wants to go to the "Fall Apple Festival," I'm good. I can watch them later, while she's 'Martha Stewarting' a peck of apples into applesauce.
3. If the Browns looked like they did today, I'd simply FF most of the game, to its inevitable 35-17 conclusion.

I still record every game. The technology has advanced, but the reasons why have never changed. In fact, it's such a household tradition that My Wife will set up the box to record CLE games during weeks that I'm too busy to get it done myself.
It's a win/win/win:

1. Clem gets to watch Browns games on his own schedule.
2. Clem gets to re-watch great plays made by Browns, and dissect individual plays for post-game talk.
3. Clem gets to FF the truly painful 'Sunday Stuff' CLE has been so eager to give us, over the years.


The only time I dedicate 100% of my time and attention to this team on a Sunday is when I'm actually at a game.

I'll dedicate 100% of my time and attention to Browns games when I see them in the playoffs. Last year's back-to-back games v. PIT and the game v. KC were Real Time affairs. Quality entertainment.


I totally get your desire to find something else to do.

I think this is very simple...

The defensive coordinator is below average and wildly inconsistent. Players were publicly criticizing him today.

The QB is below average and inconsistent.

The head coach is average at best.

Fixes...move on from Woods (either now or after the season). It really doesn't matter when. Browns season is done either way. Bring in competition for Baker for next year or shoot for the moon on a Wilson type trade. The sucky part is no way does Wilson want to play for Stefanski (I can't see any established QB wanting to play for Stefanski so it may not be achievable). As for Stefanski you give him more time. He's earned it, but you need to see him improve. And he has to bring in a more experienced defensive coordinator with a track record of success.

The rest of the players and team are fine, imo. But watching these games I don't know how you walk away and not come to the conclusion that coaching is a huge issue. I believe the Pat's ran 6 or 7 reverses today, each one wildly successful. That's just crazy.

Player this, player that, unit this, unit that... This was Belichick/Haley taking Stefanski/Woods behind the shed for a good old fashioned 3 hour ass whoopin. Everything we tried to do on offense, they were there, everything they tried on offense worked, they had our defense on its heels all day.

Most frustrating since Stefanski claimed or backs were against the wall last week and we played the best, most complete, game we've played all year... only to follow it up with that.

I do agree w/ much of your post.

Firing Woods now will soothe the immediate pain, but will make little impact on the current season. He won't be here next season. Coaching is currently an issue, but Stefanski will get time to grow into the position. Rightfully so.

Russell Wilson has a no-trade clause unless he vetoes the clause. He's not coming to Cleveland. Rodgers coming to Cleveland is a pipe dream.

For better or worse, the FO is thinking big picture and will sacrifice another season to determine if Baker can be the guy. He'll play next year under the 5th year option. He will not be extended in the off-season, barring a crazy turnaround during the remainder of the season.