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Originally Posted by DCDAWGFAN
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As of June 8th they had already arrested over 10k. Many were for non violent offenses. But they don't want to talk about any of that.
How many of them were ever actually charged with anything?

Yeah, you want me to do that homework for you? That was just by June 8th. And I would hope since many of those that had been arrested were for non violent offenses quite a number of them wouldn't have been charged.


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by DCDAWGFAN
had the rioters not done millions of dollars of damage the night before with nobody being held accountable, he wouldn't have been there.

Nobody was being held accountable?

More than 250 arrests in Kenosha unrest; most have been from the surrounding area

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news...t-have-been-surrounding-area/5701286002/
Most of them were arrested for violating curfew and promptly released.... got any stats on how many have actually been charged with anything?


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Watching our democracy die the death of a thousand cuts from the right is getting really old. I don't think any of our leaders realize the hair triggers they are dealing with on either extreme side of the isle. None of this will end well for anybody. Rittenhouse is nothing but a symptom of the larger rot in this country. A tug of war between democracy and fascist autocracy. A tug of war between two ideas of what it is to be American. A tug of war between national cohesion and all that divides...


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Anyone with whom a prosecutor has the evidence to file charges on gets charges filed on them. Those where there is a lack of evidence to file charges do not. Those who are found not guilty in court do not serve any additional time. They were all held to the same standard as the Rittenhouse kid. Or does the way our justice system works only apply to people like him? And BTW- How would Rittenhouse and those others there to "defend Kenosha" know who or how many people were being charged by the very next day? They didn't and trying to use some contrived notion they did is not viable.


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Yep. The fact that it took the jury several days to reach this verdict is a clear indicator it wasn't as cut and dry as some people on both sides claimed it was.

Maybe, maybe not.

Maybe they wanted to carefully review the facts knowing a lot was at stake. A poor juror walks in to the jury room with their mind made up.


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Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
I'm not unhappy with him getting off because I saw how badly botched the whole trial was... But I'm just sick over this pecident being set. It's open season on libs.

That's crazy man. It has nothing to do with libs and conservatives. It has to do with a persons right to defend themselves.


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Originally Posted by PortlandDawg
If that side is going to walk around playing army surplus dress up it’s our job to stay armed against them. Apparently shooting people is becoming increasingly legal.

Give it a rest. Comments like that make no sense.


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Originally Posted by dawglover05
Yeah, it was definitely botched on multiple fronts. Not sure if there will be a refiling of some of the lesser charges that were dismissed early on. I think most of the rational people I've seen from multiple spectrums on this board agreed that it shouldn't be a murder conviction, but that it shouldn't be nothing.

What should it be?


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I hope it's not your contention that it took four days to review the evidence. We agree that no juror should go into a trial with their minds made up. But they all take notes during the trial and are quite aware of the testimony that's been given when going in to deliberate. I think it's less than genuine to insinuate it took four days to simply review the testimony.


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
I hope it's not your contention that it took four days to review the evidence. We agree that no juror should go into a trial with their minds made up. But they all take notes during the trial and are quite aware of the testimony that's been given when going in to deliberate. I think it's less than genuine to insinuate it took four days to simply review the testimony.


My point is nobody knows what was reviewed or why it took this long....personally I don't think it was all that long.


Maybe a juror was saying guilty right off the bat and the others had to talk them down?

Maybe a juror or two liked the celebrity and wanted to be sequestered for a few days in a hotel before going back to work?

There are a lot of possible reasons why, so it is foolish to try to draw and conclusions.

The only conclusion we can draw is Rittenhouse is innocent of any crime.


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Wisconsin leaders and the prosecutor are calling for calm reactions from the community. Hopefully they get it, we'll see.


Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
Wisconsin leaders and the prosecutor are calling for calm reactions from the community. Hopefully they get it, we'll see.


We agree.


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Last edited by OldColdDawg; 11/19/21 04:20 PM.

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Kyle Rittenhouse trial was designed to protect white conservatives who kill

The shooter’s homicide acquittal coddles conservatives and may lead to even more violence.

Nov. 19, 2021, 1:19 PM EST / Updated Nov. 19, 2021, 2:00 PM EST
By Ja'han Jones


Kyle Rittenhouse, who fatally shot two protesters and wounded a third during anti-police brutality demonstrations in Wisconsin last year, has been found not guilty of homicide — an outrageous yet unsurprising verdict in a trial marred by controversy.

Rittenhouse, who is white, was 17 when he traveled from his hometown in northeast Illinois to the protests in Kenosha, Wisconsin, last year armed with his semi-automatic rifle. On the night of Aug. 25, 2020, as he carried his gun through the streets, Rittenhouse shot dead Joseph Rosenbaum, 36, and Anthony Huber, 26, and wounded Gaige Grosskreutz, now 27.

Rittenhouse was found not guilty on all five charges he faced, which included first-degree intentional homicide, first-degree recklessly endangering safety and attempted first-degree intentional homicide.

The case had the makings of an acquittal before the trial even began. The outcome seemed clear even before an almost exclusively white jury pool was selected, even before Judge Bruce Schroeder created an uproar by ruling that the slain protesters could be referred to as “rioters” and “looters” but not “victims," even before Schroeder refused to punish Rittenhouse for what prosecutors said amounted to a violation of his bond conditions. Rittenhouse is a white teen who abides by white rules, and white people empathetic to those rules seemed poised to insulate him from repercussions.

The day he pleaded not guilty to felony homicide, Rittenhouse flashed a white supremacist symbol and was “loudly serenaded” by a group of men at a bar who belted out the anthem of the Proud Boys, a far-right extremist group, according to prosecutors.

On the night of the shooting, minutes before Rittenhouse opened fire, police in Kenosha thanked the rifle-toting teen and offered him water as he walked the streets. “We appreciate you guys, we really do,” one officer told him.

Law enforcement — including a department known to cover up its own lawless acts of violence — seemed to give cover to Rittenhouse from the get-go.

With these endorsements, white conservatives felt all the more comfortable swaddling Rittenhouse in the protection they often give to police and vigilantes serving white conservative interests — from George Zimmerman to Mark and Patricia McCloskey. Rittenhouse is just their latest darling, pitifully seeing heroism in an armed teen who set out to patrol pro-Black protests as though he were police.

Pitiful as they are, we can’t dismiss his supporters as conservatives merely taking sides in a political squabble. Last year, then-President Donald Trump’s administration issued talking points to Homeland Security officials claiming Rittenhouse went to Kenosha to “defend small business owners.” Conservative media figures have eagerly repeated those claims. Their support for Rittenhouse isn’t a counterweight to progressive social policies like equitable policing — their support is a physical threat to people supporting those policies.

Conservatives are encouraging white vigilantes like Rittenhouse to police progressive spaces by all means. As one Slate article put it last year, “'Own the Libs' Is Gradually Morphing Into 'Kill the Libs.'”

The jury’s decision was a dangerous endorsement of that vision.

https://www.msnbc.com/the-reidout/reidout-blog/kyle-rittenhouse-acquitted-homicide-rcna5748


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I do feel badly for parents and family. Not just in this case, but most others as well. Parents and family are innocent victims in all cases where either someone is killed or harmed, or if their loved one goes to jail.


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First, we actually know that the jury asked to and was permitted to take home the 36-pages of jury instructions as they ended their third day of deliberations. If that isn't a clear indication that it was a much more complicated decision than you are trying to claim a possible denial of that doesn't seem very plausible.

Secondly a jury doesn't find anyone innocent of anything. They find that the prosecution did not find or present enough evidence to find them guilty of a crime by a reasonable doubt.

Those aren't the same. He was certainly found not guilty on all charges.


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MSNBC is just butthurt that they got kicked out of the courtroom for attempting to intimidate the jury. Their radical left agenda is transparent.


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OCD....LOL to the link to the MSN garbage you posted.


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Yeah, just like it's wrong to allow black pastors in a courthouse.


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I'll give this thread a rest for a while to all some steam to blow off.

Rittenhouse walked in to the courtroom a innocent man, and he walked out the same.


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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Originally Posted by dawglover05
Yeah, it was definitely botched on multiple fronts. Not sure if there will be a refiling of some of the lesser charges that were dismissed early on. I think most of the rational people I've seen from multiple spectrums on this board agreed that it shouldn't be a murder conviction, but that it shouldn't be nothing.

What should it be?

Possession. We've been over this, but...

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news...ropped-gun-possession-charge/8640342002/

Judge botched it. Big time.

Edit ~ I suppose you could also point blame at the legislature because the wording does not add up to the likely intent.

Last edited by dawglover05; 11/19/21 04:26 PM.

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He was found not guilty. Nobody is ever found innocent.


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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
OCD....LOL to the link to the MSN garbage you posted.

I just posted it so y'all living in your bubbles could see what just got kicked off. Don't fool yourselves into thinking it's only the radical 'Reidout' Joy Reid show blog out there talking that crap right now. I don't necessarily agree with the words in that article, but I do agree there will be fallout and it won't be pretty.


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Yeah, just like it's wrong to allow black pastors in a courthouse.

Just to be clear for the folks that don't know that happened in a different trial, and was said by a defense attorney who was rebuked by that judge.


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And it's no less ridiculous than trying to claim a network news camera would be an attempt to intimidate a jury.


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
And it's no less ridiculous than trying to claim a network news camera would be an attempt to intimidate a jury.

Stalking the jury bus is jury intimidation. It illegal, and they will face consequences.


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Sure they will. rofl

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Biden just called on Americans to respect the jury's verdict, reminding that he ran on a platform to unite and bring us back together, and asked those angry over the verdict to keep their protests peaceful. Just a normal day in postTrumpia.

Last edited by OldColdDawg; 11/19/21 04:39 PM.

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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
And it's no less ridiculous than trying to claim a network news camera would be an attempt to intimidate a jury.

Well the network freelancer (network called him that) was following the bus carrying the jury. In fact he ran a red light while doing so. It isn't be out of the realm of possibility that he was trying to get video of the jurors. Why else would he follow them? That is intimidation.


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What should it be?

You are probably in a better position to know the answer to this than most of us.

I'm surprised that the charges were so specific and rigid. Is it not true that juries can request permission to level guilty verdicts on lesser charges?
2nd-degree?
Manslaughter?
Criminally negligent homicide?

Here's why I ask: In a fluid situation such as the night this happened I could easily see a different set of charges for each shooting, depending upon circumstance.

Perhaps you could bang out a short tutorial for those of us who are less interested in fighting and more interested in discussing?
Only if you feel so inclined.


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He certainly deserves a ticket for running a red light. I mean it's not like he shot and killed anyone, right? wink


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I am glad he was found guilty. This case never should have been brought to trail. The video clearly shows self defense. Now, I hope he sues the media and wins big!!! They told lie after lie about this case trying to convict this kid. The mob should have been stopped long before this kid put himself in a bad place. His mother should have been smart enough to keep him far away from the trash that was rioting.


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It was so clear it took a jury four days to make a decision. rofl


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The video was clear. The noise surrounding the case complicates things. The video was all the kid needed to be found innocent. That was the smoking gun in this case.


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I'll repeat, it took the jury four days to come to a verdict. That's not what happens in an open and shut case. That's not what happens when everything is "clear".

In the end, given the evidence that the judge allowed them to see they most likely made the right choice. I can't say 100% because I didn't see the entire trial.


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Originally Posted by Clemdawg
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What should it be?

You are probably in a better position to know the answer to this than most of us.

I'm surprised that the charges were so specific and rigid. Is it not true that juries can request permission to level guilty verdicts on lesser charges?
2nd-degree?
Manslaughter?
Criminally negligent homicide?

Here's why I ask: In a fluid situation such as the night this happened I could easily see a different set of charges for each shooting, depending upon circumstance.

Perhaps you could bang out a short tutorial for those of us who are less interested in fighting and more interested in discussing?
Only if you feel so inclined.

I dont think they can do that. Because the whole trial strategy by both sides was geared towards the existing charges. The jury cant just change the charges. Because it would require a new defense.

Just thinking logically.


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Originally Posted by EveDawg
Originally Posted by Clemdawg
Quote
What should it be?

You are probably in a better position to know the answer to this than most of us.

I'm surprised that the charges were so specific and rigid. Is it not true that juries can request permission to level guilty verdicts on lesser charges?
2nd-degree?
Manslaughter?
Criminally negligent homicide?

Here's why I ask: In a fluid situation such as the night this happened I could easily see a different set of charges for each shooting, depending upon circumstance.

Perhaps you could bang out a short tutorial for those of us who are less interested in fighting and more interested in discussing?
Only if you feel so inclined.

I dont think they can do that. Because the whole trial strategy by both sides was geared towards the existing charges. The jury cant just change the charges. Because it would require a new defense.

Just thinking logically.

I believe the judge did allow for a lesser charge. If the jury decides it was self defense a lesser charge won't change the fact that he defending himself. That's why I'm interested in hearing from the jury. I want to hear what they were thinking.


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Last edited by OldColdDawg; 11/19/21 05:31 PM.

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Yeah, there are such things as lesser included offenses, which are typically covered in the jury instructions. I'm going to oversimplify it, but I'll use robbery as an example. Robbery is larceny with the use or threat of use of force. Larceny is also its own crime. But in that instance, someone who is charged with robbery cannot also be charged with larceny, because larceny is already a subset. However, if someone is charged with robbery, and the jury finds that he stole something, but didn't actually use force, they can return a conviction for the lesser included offense of larceny.

I believe you're right, though, that in this case, self defense would apply as an affirmative defense across the gamut.


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Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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