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He seemed fine early on and even ran it decently well for a QB who's hobbled, but he also got a little more banged up on a couple plays later on in the game.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
If Baker had a physical blue collar working job he'd be on Temporary Disability. I believe he is really beat up and probably should sit down until he feels better.

Not according to Baker and the team doctors. Do you have some inside information to back up this claim? Or are you saying the team doctors and Baker are lying to us?


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Mayfield was the second gut to congratulate him. He and his bad leg sprinted right over there!


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I ws at the game. He was moving like a gimp after half.

I don't think the Dr's are lying, nor Baker. Dr's aren't saying the guy is 100% or 75%. They are simply saying there is no serious physical reason he can't play. As an example, a player could play on a sprained ankle, but he might not play well.

I think in general players are one of two types. Anything less than 100% is a problem, or they think nothing is a problem that can impact their play. I think the coach is the one who needs to tell a player, no, you are not playing this week no matter what you or the Dr's say.


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Originally Posted by Swish
Originally Posted by Pdawg


This is a post Emily had on her Instagram. She apparently liked it as well. I believe she has removed it. The local media is already all over this as well as Mayfield skipping his post game media session. He also walked off the field without shaking hands. Many are saying it was because he was booed. I have no idea what is going on.


People better keep that same energy on her like they did OBJs dad. She runs her mouth the most out of any of our players significant others.

But I know y’all won’t. Cause somehow, it’s different.

I will talk about baker, however.

Dude missed wide open receivers all day. He thrown two horrible picks. Right now, the team wins based around our run game, not our #1 overall QB.

Thanks to baker mayfield crap performance and lack of sportsmanship, and his wife running her mouth on Twitter non stop, I’d be glad to see him walk. There’s a reason Stefanski doesn’t trust him, and we haven’t re-signed him.

I’m all for the players getting tough, just as soon as baker decides to play like a real QB.

NOPE. Not the same. She's his wife, not his meddling daddy. And she's a fan. All the Odell lovers are trying this... Odell left on his own BEFORE he was run out. She's not in that position. Odell was a BUM here. BUM.

And I like Baker. I never really like OBJ. I can barely remember him when he was a good player. All I can see is a me me me guy. You know, a diva. And GBush is just trying to promote his lame ass Ytube show. Quincy been doing a lot with him lately. He's like watching paint dry.

But I do have a serious question for you Swish. I'm noticing people who acted mind blown after Odell's daddy and him played their game... they made negative comments or comments of disbelief... yet here they are this week acting like Odell didn't get exactly what he wanted OR that the Browns somehow didn't treat him fairly... BS. Odell had opportunities, a good team to work with, and plenty of people in his corner... he wasn't successful here because he COULD NOT PERFORM or simply underperformed. Yes, he may not have had as many opportunities as he would have liked, but catching the damn ball might have solved that. Truth is, he was a blowhard diva who didn't do a damn thing for this team.

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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by YTownBrownsFan
I think that Baker is really, really hurt, and other teams are doing their best to make sure he doesn't get better against him. I cannot imagine playing QB when you can barely walk because of injuries to a knee and foot .... along with a serious injury to a shoulder ... even a non-throwing shoulder.

So is it then your assertion that both Baker and the team doctors are all lying to us that he's able to play? Because they all say he's ready. I'm not trying to say he isn't suffering from injuries. I'm saying they wouldn't be giving him the green light to play if he wasn't able to. That's why I don't buy into the, "He's damned near ready for a wheelchair" argument.

There are many players who play hurt, and I think that Mayfield is one of them.

We don't pretend that a WR playing through an ankle or knee (or even shoulder) injury is going to be the same player he was without the injury. We don't pretend that an OL or DL playing with an injury is the same as he was without the injury. Players, especially a QB, want to play no matter what. Sometimes they just can't go, and it is the responsibility of the coaches and doctors to recognize this. Many players, through the years, refused to take themselves off the field, even when they had concussions. The teams has to see when a player is just hurting himself, and the team in the long run.

As little faith as I have in Keenum, I would start him against the Ravens, and let Mayfield have 3 weeks to heal up as much as he can for the stretch run.


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"winning has not been a common thing around here"

That's Baker telling all you booing pieces of sh@#&*#@*&t to go f yourself. Love it.

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I watch a lot of ESPN. thumbsup

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Originally Posted by Hammer
"winning has not been a common thing around here"

That's Baker telling all you booing pieces of sh@#&*#@*&t to go f yourself. Love it.

Yeah insult the fanbase, that's a mature response that's likely going to play out well for him in the long run. Most successful players do that all the time. Dude isn't even mentally and emotionally mature enough to ignore that stuff, understand it's just noise, and persevere and overcome. If he just ignores it and plays better, he'd be cheered and nobody remembers this. No instead he storms off the field, refuses to shake hands in a tantrum and then after cooling off decides it's a good idea to insult the fanbase. I might think twice about cheering for him next time.

Who advises this guy LeChina James?

If you "love that" - my response to you would be "go root for Buffalo".

We've seen enough horrible football here over the years to recognize it pretty well. Baker's play certainly qualifies. Don't like the boos? Suck it up buttercup and either admit you're too injured to help the team win, or play better.


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J/C... trying to make sense out of this...

Game 1- against the SB champs.. KC wins 33-29...Baker was 21/28- 321 yds ..0 TD and 1 int... 2- TD runs by Chubb, 1 by Hunt and 1 by Landry.. Mahomes was 27/36 337yds 3 TD

Game 2- Browns 31-Texans 21.. Baker injures his shoulder... Baker 19-21- 213 yds.. 1 TD ..Chubb 1.. Janovich 1 Felton 1..

Game 3- Browns 26-Bears 6... Baker 19-31- 246 yds .... Look at the c/att rate compared to the previous games...

Game 4- Browns 14- Vikings 7.. Baker 15/33-155 yds.. Hunt 1-TD Andraes Williams 1TD Defensive TD

Game 5- Browns 42-Chargers 47.. Baker 23/32-305 yds.. 2 TD.. Chubb 1.. Hunt 2.. Njoku 1.. Higgins 1

Game 6- Browns 14-Cardinals 37..Baker 19/28 234 yds..2 TD.. DPJ's 2 TD

Game 7- Browns 17-Broncos 14.. Baker 21/33 199 yds.. 1 TD.. D' Johnson 1 TD .. Stanton 1 TD

Game 8- Browns 10-Steelers 15.. Baker 20/31 225 yds.. 0 TD.. D' Johnson 1 TD

Game 9- Browns 41-Bengals 16.. Baker 14/21 218 yds.. 2 TD.. Chubb 2.. DPJ 1.. Njoku 1.. Ward and Johnson "D" 1 each..

Game 10- Browns 7-Patriots 45.. Baker 11/21 73 yds 1 TD.. 1 int... move on..

Game 11- Browns 13-Lions 10.. Baker 15/29 176 yds.. 1 TD.. 2 int... Landry / Chubb both 1 each Landry a run and Chubb a receiving TD..

I didn't factor in the Special Teams points.. or did I factor in the Defensive Play which was not very good most games... Not trying to make Baker look good or bad..looking at facts on Baker because this is a Thread about him..

Clearly after his shoulder injury things drop off as we all know.. I also see signs of hope..

Bakers first year as a rookie saw his first HC (HUE) fired after 8 games..Then a DC comes in as a Interim HC.. Then he had another new coach the season after with Freddie Kitchens..Then the season after that yet another new HC on top of a GM... Baker has dealt with a lot of adversity as a young QB...And honestly handled it pretty dang well !

I'm not the biggest Baker fan, and also not the biggest hater... I feel like the guy has tried more then any QB this team has had for some time...

Are the injuries really hurting or is there more turmoil inside the building us fans don't know about... I don't know, but after the injuries the c/att really goes down..Yet he still gave his best.. Did it hurt the team who knows..
Been awhile since I've seen a Browns QB that tried.

This season has had horrible defensive play and Offensive play calling... Again expectations were way to high at the end of last season going into this season..

Still got a chance to get a wild card spot... Whether Baker is the guy in the future or not.. He's the QB for this team as of now... like him or not...this has been a team disappointment from all three sides of the ball including the coaching staff !!

I feel he should of been sat for the Lions game.. I'd rather see him get healed and rested for the up coming games we need him for...Like it or not..he needs our support as fans to help him get through this..Media expectations along with fan base seems to be tearing this all apart ! until a change, this is what we got !

Sometimes in life when things aren't going your way and your feeling down and you feel no support ... ya get feeling worse until someone reaches out that shows they care and wants to help you get back on your feet and succeed ! just alittle support and caring might just help turn things around !

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Originally Posted by Hammer
Wide open receivers - lmao.

The Browns have probably the worst WR group of any team in the NFL and their TEs are not much better.

Team is built around the running game and the OL. When that aint working, the offense will suck.

Yes - Mayfield missed some passes - weather and injury related. He's currently a one-armed QB with bad wheels - get real.


I'm with you on the receivers....

Fair to say I've been a staunch Baker supporter prior to day 1. I can also tell you he's played like crap at times. He would probably say the same. I'm also not that worried about it or am I going to cry out hoping we end up with Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers. That's not really feasible. Nor is it really feasible to draft a rookie QB and have him lead us to the promised land in year 1. I really don't think we will move on from Baker barring something major.

I don't believe doctors are lying. I believe Baker is hurt, but he can still run these plays. You also don't want to show a signs of weakness. Have you ever played basketball and broke a finger, taped it up and went back out there and made some shots? Yeah, same thing. His knee hurts but he can still run.

I also 100% believe that his injuries are affected his throws. It's not an excuse because he's definitely had some bad throws probably unrelated to the injuries. I also see both Baker and his coach saying that his injuries are not affecting his throws. They aren't going to tell anyone his injuries are affecting his throws even if they are or are not. Both Baker and Stefanski are smarter than that. The media is sick.

As far as resting his injuries, the options are playing thru it or shutting him down for the season. We are fighting for a playoff spot, if he can play he will and should play. His injuries require surgery. There's no resting him this week or next week to help him heal. He won't heal until the offseason. If Keenum was the better option he would have began the season as the starter. Case is underwhelming.

Yes, there are times Baker has played poorly, but there's a good reason why he was the #1 overall pick. And it wasn't a misfire on the part of the Browns. If Baker hits the open market he'd be snatched up quickly. There are still teams that live him. I'd imagine the Saints are on the top of that list. Mac Jones has played well, but the little hooded one LOVES Baker. If he ever left NE he would be gunning for Baker as his QB.

He's had some bad moments this year but we are going to be fine. Relax.

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Originally Posted by GraffZ06
Originally Posted by Hammer
"winning has not been a common thing around here"

That's Baker telling all you booing pieces of sh@#&*#@*&t to go f yourself. Love it.

Yeah insult the fanbase, that's a mature response that's likely going to play out well for him in the long run. Most successful players do that all the time. Dude isn't even mentally and emotionally mature enough to ignore that stuff, understand it's just noise, and persevere and overcome. If he just ignores it and plays better, he'd be cheered and nobody remembers this. No instead he storms off the field, refuses to shake hands in a tantrum and then after cooling off decides it's a good idea to insult the fanbase. I might think twice about cheering for him next time.

Who advises this guy LeChina James?

If you "love that" - my response to you would be "go root for Buffalo".

We've seen enough horrible football here over the years to recognize it pretty well. Baker's play certainly qualifies. Don't like the boos? Suck it up buttercup and either admit you're too injured to help the team win, or play better.


I don't think much of what is said here is remotely true.

I don't believe he's insulted the fanbase. I'm not insulted. In fact I think it's rather embarrassing as a fan to see and hear those boos from other fellow fans. That's much more insulting.

I don't think I've heard Baker complain... about anything... ever. I think there are some things in house that we are not privy to... things that if we were we'd be saying they should keep those things in house. I never once heard Baker say OBJ ran the incorrect route although we know now he did, a lot. I think Baker's actually ignored the boos and doesn't care. He is fully aware and understands what he needs to do. In the end he's not alone going up against the fans. The great Bernie Kosar has been booed and even benched. It happens.

I also don't think his wife is an issue. I'd imagine she posted what she did to Instagram after reading the first part and then realized after reading the whole thing it was not as good/helpful to get her point acrossed as she thought...⁵ so she deleted it. I don't think the intent was to call out Baker's teammates. But that's what the media saw. They're sick.

If you're going to think twice about rooting for Baker or you don't love his response to the boos - my response to you would be "go root for Buffalo."

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Tim Couch drama 2.0

Into the basement we go because one player is more important than a team.

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I found the comment childish... fans have every right to boo... if a player can't handle it then play better...


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Originally Posted by jaybird
I found the comment childish... fans have every right to boo... if a player can't handle it then play better...

Totally agree. We pay their salaries, we're spending money and time for the experience. I don't believe in the nasty heckling stuff, but we have every right to voice our displeasure when they perform well below expectations.


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this is why we can't have nice things.


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Oh well none have us has said something that we wish we had not

I am a big supporter because I absolutely loved it when we drafted at 26.

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j/c

I think is is quite reasonable to believe that Baker's injuries are contributing to a lack of consistency in his throws....which can lead to hesitancy in confidence and decision-making. He's always been very accurate and has - at times - struggled with decision-making. He looked like 2nd half 2020 Baker the first 1.5 games this year...then the wheels came off the entire wagon.

I hope we don't see Keenum this Sunday. He cannot make the throws that Baker can make to wide receivers and TEs who simply cannot get separation. He just can't. Not many backups can...if any. Maybe Baker won't or can't either...but he has done it in games since the injury bug started to bite. I think the coaches see that during the week and that's why they keep playing him. If the coaches think Keenum gives us a better chance, he'd be playing.

The idea that Baker is being selfish for continuing to play reeks of butt-hurt Buckeye fans who still can't let it go. What QB has EVER said he couldn't play when he himself felt like he could? That selfish claim is absurd. I'd ask you to re-read the underlined sentence above.

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I’m not or ever have been on the Mayfield train. His ditsy wife makes me wave that train on by with more angst. I still don’t like that waste of a #1 pick. Another monumental Browns historic whiff in the draft. Sign him or don’t sign him but as one of the commentators for that horrid game this past Sunday said, you don’t win in the NFL without a franchise QB. If they aren’t going to sign him they better have a plan. #DumpMayfield


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It is childish, and it looks especially bad after sulking off the field after the Detroit win. Not meeting the media, according to what he said, sounded like the more mature thing to do but by making childish comments it sounds like he hasn't totally gotten himself under control. It's not a great look.

but

IMO, this "go f yourself" attitude is kinda necessary when dealing with certain elements of our fanbase and our local sports media. I don't have a problem with the attitude itself, but maybe more some of his delivery. I think his comments were only directed to a certain portion of the fanbase... and if you're confused as to who that is and/or you're butthurt about him having the audacity to utter a word against fans, then it is probably aimed at you.

To be clear, the above paragraph and what I'm saying is necessary about his attitude is limited to some of those comments after the game. I'm NOT on board with him sulking off the field and I'm not on board with his wife acting like his bodyguard on social media. I think she did the right thing on apologizing and taking it down, but you would think she would have a little extra awareness on that stuff when we're fresh off the OBJ drama.


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Originally Posted by PrplPplEater
1. False Equivalency; that is NOT the sort of post people would have complained about and it has NOTHING to do with the assertion of privilege.

2. There's nothing wrong with privilege. The entire concept of privilege has been given this immensely negative connotation as if it is something to be eschewed and torn down, but quite simply, Rank Has Its Privileges. It is nothing of the sort, it is something to be sought & earned.


This is a prime example of the dumbing down of this world. Just because something is posted in the internet, people take it and run with it without putting an ounce of thought into whether or not it hold any validity at all. All they're looking for is a quoteable postable that echoes their feelings.
Incorrect. The issue with “privilege” whether you like it or not is when preference is given to someone or a group when they have not earned that preference. It also applies when barriers are erected to prevent others from the same opportunities because a privileged group does not want others to have that access.

Rank has its privileges is derived from monarchical/feudal and/or military rankings.

The dumbing down of the world includes having blinders on to anything that challenges the belief structures held by people and groups of people. That includes experts being pooh-poohed because their expertise in a field is at odds with a prevailing myth/belief.

Back to Baker. It seems that Baker has regressed. Whether that is due to the condition of his body we here do not know although we can hazard a guess. If he is suddenly growing radar ears and letting that impact his play through impacting his temper then that is a problem. It is necessary for athletes to have a thick skin. I realize that there are likely many who do not but the reality is that athletes have been accorded positions and preferential treatment due to their ability to play a game or perform an activity that the general public lacks the ability to do. Thus the public invests, rightly or wrongly, in these persons and expects performance. When said performance does not happen the public feels entitled, rightly or wrongly, to vent their spleen. This is part and parcel of the concept of “bread-and-circuses”. Of course, common courtesy should prevail but that window was closed long ago. As for booing the home team? How do many think athletes felt when seeing fans show up with paper bags on their heads or engaged in some other method of showing displeasure? The public expects a certain level of performance and not seeing it raises their ire. Anti-social media simply allows for attacks shielded by relative anonymity.

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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by YTownBrownsFan
I think that Baker is really, really hurt, and other teams are doing their best to make sure he doesn't get better against him. I cannot imagine playing QB when you can barely walk because of injuries to a knee and foot .... along with a serious injury to a shoulder ... even a non-throwing shoulder.

So is it then your assertion that both Baker and the team doctors are all lying to us that he's able to play? Because they all say he's ready. I'm not trying to say he isn't suffering from injuries. I'm saying they wouldn't be giving him the green light to play if he wasn't able to. That's why I don't buy into the, "He's damned near ready for a wheelchair" argument.
Being medically cleared to play and being able to play at, or close to, 100% are two completely different things. Everybody has a role to play in this:

Players's job is to rehab and do whatever he can to be able to play and most athletes will say they want to go unless they are just physically unable to move.
Medical staff's job is to determine if the injury could be made significantly worse by playing and poses any longer term chance for damage.
Coach's job is to determine that if Baker says he wants to play and medical staff says he's allowed to play, SHOULD HE PLAY or is his playing detrimental to the team and would the back-up give us a better chance to win.

Since the beginning of the season, you have gone out of your way to deflect blame away from Stefanski and the coaching staff.. you have stated the blown coverages weren't their fault, just the fault of young players, the penalties aren't their fault, they are the fault of undisciplined players, some of the stupid play calls aren't their fault, every play will work if executed properly... and now you are acting as if they are powerless to sit Baker if Baker and the medical staff say he is ok to play, when, in fact, they have the final decision on whether Baker goes on the field or not regardless of what anybody else says.


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I agree. I said as much earlier. There is a difference between being able to play and being able to play well.
The Dr.'s aren't saying he won't play without limitations. They are simply saying there is no medical reason he can't. It's up to the player to say if he feels well enough, and the coach to determine if he can play well enough.


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Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
NOPE. Not the same. She's his wife, not his meddling daddy. And she's a fan.

Translation. She's a meddling wife and not a meddling dad. So that makes it different. OBJ's dad isn't a fan of his son but Bakers wife is a fan of Baker.

rofl


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So while I've asked this of other people I'll ask it of you. Do you honestly believe that the coaching staff is seeing this inaccurate Baker who can barely complete 50% of his passes on Sunday all week in practice and still starting him? Or do you believe he is more accurate in practice is why they are starting him on Sunday? While I suppose it's possible his accuracy could be terrible in practice all week and they start him anyway, that pill seems a little hard to swallow.


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If I was him, and I was out there busting my ass trying to do the best I can, and I heard people boo me, I’d be salty as hell as well. To think these players don’t have the same reactions, or shouldn’t have the same reactions, as “normal” people, is silly. The whole fan mindset of “I pay your wage, I can do what I want.” is the height of entitlement.

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Not having the ability to recognize that your play is hurting your team is not a sign of strength.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
So while I've asked this of other people I'll ask it of you. Do you honestly believe that the coaching staff is seeing this inaccurate Baker who can barely complete 50% of his passes on Sunday all week in practice and still starting him? Or do you believe he is more accurate in practice is why they are starting him on Sunday? While I suppose it's possible his accuracy could be terrible in practice all week and they start him anyway, that pill seems a little hard to swallow.
I could offer up a few speculative answers... and no, I don't think he looks wildly inaccurate in practice, if he does, then starting him is completely on Stefanski....

1. I think some defenses have found better ways to confuse our offense (Baker and Stefanski).. the Patriots game looked like the best example of that, this game looked to be more about missing open WRs, the Patriots game looked to be more about being confused by the defense.

2. I've haven't played QB since I was 9 years old, but I played a lot of baseball when I was younger... if you have a ankle/knee injury, it's very possible to throw well when you are stationary and you have time to step and throw normally in controlled environment, but in a game when you are moving, shifting, adjusting, hurrying, off-platform trying to throw, the effects of the injury are much more impactful in your ability to throw with accuracy and velocity. I would suspect the same is true of throwing a football. So in practice, with the red jersey on and no fear of being hit, he can stand and throw with footwork and proper motion and probably throw reasonably accurately, but in the game with all of the movement and the shifting and the possibility to get hit it's possible the injury becomes much more noticeable. This is the best explanation I can come up with that would explain some of the absolutely beautiful throws he made Sunday in contrast to some of the ones that were absolutely horrible.


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That actually doesn't sound like a bad explanation if you feel they don't ask Baker to move around or practice roll out plays during practice. I would hope they do especially if they are making any attempt to see how his injury might impact his play on game day.


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Not having the ability to recognize that your play is hurting your team is not a sign of strength.
Maybe.. but I understand the athlete's perspective to want to play and fight through it... and the emotion involved....

Not recognizing that a player is hurting your chances to win, if the back-up gives you a better chance to win, is a much bigger flaw in the coaching staff, who is supposed to be looking at this objectively with all of the information, the tape, and no emotional ties one way or the other.


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I don't disagree with you. As I think you know, it's my belief he has been performing well in practice and it's gotten to the point the coaching staff is going to have to realize that what they're seeing in practice isn't translating on game day.


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
That actually doesn't sound like a bad explanation if you feel they don't ask Baker to move around or practice roll out plays during practice. I would hope they do especially if they are making any attempt to see how his injury might impact his play on game day.

I'm assuming that at some point you have had an injury to a knee, ankle, even lower back, shoulder and tried to play a sport or do physical tasks for work.... I've had all of them... you can protect those injuries when you are in a controlled environment, even rolling out or moving you can stay in a controlled environment since it's practice and you know you are aren't going to get hit so when it's time to throw, you can get your feet right and step and throw and avoid significant pain... in a game all of that luxury goes away and the slightest deviation from the movement that protects your injury shoots pain through your body.

I have had really bad low back issues at different times in the past, even with it flaring up I am able to use the push mower to cut the grass, pick things up off the floor, even lift heavier objects over my head.... because I do it slowly and under control, using proper form... know when it hurts the worst? When I momentarily forget about it and bend down too quick to put my socks on or turn quickly from the waist instead of moving my feet... then it brings real tears to my eyes... it's the little stupid things when you stop thinking about it that hurt.

I'm not saying this is going on with Baker, just stating that it is possible to look reasonably accurate and efficient in practice but then in the heat of the game, hit that spot where the injury reminds you, when you plant your foot or turn your waist but not your ankle.. that it's there


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j/c...

Kevin Stefanski and Baker Mayfield aren’t making each other better
Updated: Nov. 22, 2021, 12:41 p.m. | Published: Nov. 22, 2021, 8:35 a.m.

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- With just over seven minutes left in the third quarter Sunday, his team ahead by two scores, Baker Mayfield double-pumped and fired a sideline pass 45 yards through the air to a fourth-string deep option.

That 37-yard gain to JaMarcus Bradley -- not the departed Odell Beckham Jr., not the injured Donovan Peoples-Jones or Anthony Schwartz -- put Mayfield at 14 of 22 passing for 177 yards in 38 minutes of action against the Detroit Lions. It was his second-longest completion in a month. Wyatt Teller high-fived him. Mayfield looked ready to roll.

He would manage one completion the rest of the game.

Over the next 22 minutes, the Browns snapped the ball 25 times. They handed it to a running back 13 times, were called for penalties that wiped out plays three times, saw Mayfield sacked once, had him scramble once, and seven more times Mayfield threw the ball.

Those throws created five incompletions, one interception and one completed tight end screen for a loss of a yard. Instead of definitively putting the game away, the Browns were holding on for dear life against a winless foe, escaping with a 13-10 win that felt as close to a loss as a victory could for a team in a playoff race.

Why? Because it felt like the Browns were trying to win while avoiding their quarterback. Why? Because a Mayfield-Kevin Stefanski relationship that at its peak last year brought out the best in both doesn’t appear to be serving either of them at the moment. Too aggressive at times, not aggressive enough at others, the plan of a supposedly efficient play-caller and supposedly accurate quarterback isn’t working. They are grinding against each other. On few other teams does throwing the ball look this difficult.

This is only a football observation, not a relationship observation, based on unproductive offense and not Mayfield’s apparent postgame frustration.

But something has to change. Right now, Stefanski might be respecting Mayfield too much, while not trusting him enough.

Clearly Mayfield is hurting, his injuries mounting, but Stefanski keeps putting Mayfield out there while citing his toughness. Mayfield is given the respect of a franchise quarterback. But heart only goes so far. Because once the Browns gained a little breathing room Sunday, they turtled. It’s a fine line between putting a game away with Nick Chubb, and trying to run out the clock without putting the game on your quarterback. Sunday felt as much like the latter as the former, because Stefanski doesn’t trust Mayfield, or at least this version of Mayfield, like a franchise quarterback.

The result is the worst of both worlds -- a quarterback who is playing but not functioning.

Maybe this is the best that a second-year coach and injured quarterback can do, limp through the season, patch together an offense and hope to survive. But Mayfield, and the offense, looked better in the first half when the Browns were playing to win as opposed to trying to hold on.

Against the Patriots last week, Mayfield was 0 for 7 on passes 10 yards down the field.

Sunday, he hit a few in the first half, and then another to Bradley. But there was little flow. The idea isn’t to criticize every single play call, but when a team has scored 17 points or fewer in five of its last six games, the search for offense never ends. After the Bradley completion, the Browns ran it twice with Chubb, and on third-and-1, Mayfield threw a deep shot down the middle to Bradley in double coverage. A completion wouldn’t have mattered, because right tackle Blake Hance was called for a hold on the play, and on the ensuing third-and-11, Mayfield was sacked.

For lots of offenses, especially one unafraid to go on fourth down, a third-and-1 deep shot can be smart. For this one, that was a time to run it again. Then give Mayfield a chance with a fresh set of downs.

Imagine if this Browns season was Stefanski’s audition tape for a job, the way his 2019 season calling plays for the Vikings was the final piece of the Browns hiring him. Think of all he would have to be explaining away. Yes, right tackle Jack Conklin and running back Kareem Hunt are out, Beckham is gone and Mayfield is limping. The weather Sunday wasn’t great. But 13 points against the Lions, who had allowed 28 points per game coming in? What GM would be impressed with this recent offensive display?

This is not a plea to play Case Keenum. Unless Mayfield can’t physically execute what Stefanski wants, and the Bradley throw would indicate otherwise, I think starting Keenum week-to-week really puts a cap on this offense.

But if Stefanski is going to respect Mayfield, he has to force himself to trust Mayfield. And if his coach is going to trust him, the quarterback has to reward that, or prepare to be benched. I don’t think the Browns have to sit Mayfield before a game for health. But they have to be ready to sit him during a game based on production, whether that’s health-related or not.

Toughness is admirable, but production is non-negotiable. Right now, the Browns are back to the beginning of last season with the passing game … but at least then they were scoring and winning during Mayfield’s struggles.

Compare Mayfield’s last five games this season to his first five games this season and to the first six games last season before things clicked in.

Last five games 2021, average:

* 16 for 26 passing, 185 yards, 7.1 yards/attempt, 17 points per game, 2-3 record

First five games 2021, average:

* 19 for 29 passing, 248 yards, 8.6 yards/attempt, 28 points per game, 3-2 record

First six games 2020, average:

* 17 for 28 passing, 182 yards, 6.4 yards/attempt, 27 points per game, 4-2

Mayfield’s yards per game and yards per attempt now are close to his rough start last year. But the Browns scored 10 more points a game at the beginning of 2020 compared to this recent run.

The Browns worked through Mayfield growing pains in the Stefanski offense a year ago and came out the other side. The struggles were in pursuit of something, and the Browns managed to score and to win through them.

Now, the Browns are at the other side again. They have to come out of this against Baltimore next Sunday. The offense performances of the last two weeks won’t be close to enough to beat the Ravens. Yes, the Browns beat the Lions, but if Cleveland wasn’t playing a winless team on its third-string quarterback, that would have been a loss.

No one should think of Mayfield like a franchise quarterback right now. That’s not an indictment of Mayfield’s future, but a necessary mindset for the moment. Stefanski should make Mayfield prove it every week, by allowing Mayfield to prove it every week. Shake it up. This offense isn’t working. There’s no point in Stefanski respecting Mayfield if he doesn’t trust Mayfield.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...g-each-other-better-doug-lesmerises.html

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I pretty much agree with all of that. And the difference in our scoring last year compared to this year, despite similar QB production is pretty simple.. our red zone efficiency last year for TDs was 73.3%, 4th in the NFL.. this year it's 57.4%, 19th in the NFL.. Our 4th down attempts are also up this year but our successes are not...

So redzone efficiency for TDs dropping by almost 20% plus going for it on 4th down a lot more (unsuccessfully).. that's about 1 TD and 1 FG per game.. that's 10 points.


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I think you have an extremely valid point. I think you know that I have been in the construction field for most of my life and as such the type of injuries you have described go along with the territory. So I understand the point you are making. I've even had major back surgery. I played for two weeks in high school football with my thumb broken in seven places. It was actually below the thumb itself between the thumb and the wrist. Finally with the bruising and swelling not getting better I was pretty much forced to get x-rays. So I know what you're saying all too well.

And I guess the controlled environment could play a part. I just believe that the coaching staff would require him to do things in practice that would test the impact those injuries would have on his performance. That they would simulate game speed to get a better feel for it. Make him roll out and move around in the pocket. I don't know the answer for sure one way or the other.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Not incorrect on any level. It IS a false equivalency, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with privilege.

You inserted your own conditions to create your perception of privilege being a negative.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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I don't mind the go F yourself attitude at all... if it leads to him playing lights out this week or him realizing he needs to heal... I agree that I love the chip on his shoulder because it's needed for this team... but it's a fine line... especially when you're getting worse as the year goes on


<><

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Originally Posted by rastanplan
Tim Couch drama 2.0

Into the basement we go because making sure there is a team friendly, undervalued, future contract of one player is more important than a team.
And the win loss column, or the feelings of fans, or the Pride of Cleveland
So into the Basement, with an injured Qb who can't throw accurately playing,

"Play him until his arm falls off! Hot! Dog! It! we're gonna save some money!" Puke Emoji, puke emoji.
Fixed it for ya.

Either way, into the basement, flamingmad


Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Originally Posted by jaybird
I found the comment childish... fans have every right to boo... if a player can't handle it then play better...

Who is booing the player?
They are booing the coach for playing the wrong blank blank Quarterback! If the coach can't handle it, open his eyes and play the healthy players.

They have a history of playing injured players other times this year.
Jedrick Wills. and probably Hunt and Landry.


Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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