DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Covid... still... p7

I'm sure the numbers aren't 100% correct. I have little doubt that there were people that died for reasons other than COVID with that as their reason of death, and I have little doubt that the opposite is occurring (someone died from COVID but they weren't tested or otherwise the death wasn't attributed to COVID). I think, given the quantity of deaths over such a relatively short amount of time, this argument comes down to splitting hairs. Worldometers has total US COVID deaths at 800k... so for argument's sake if you say that's off by 10% (I don't think it's anywhere near that high), you're still at almost 3/4 of a million people. If you think the numbers are off by more than that, then I'd say you have a BIG problem with the basic integrity of our healthcare system and healthcare pros.

Some interesting stats from yesterday. This was a spot check at one particular time in the afternoon. I didn't count any that didn't have respiratory symtoms. It's out there folks.

Hospital #1 ED: 53 total pts. 11 pts with COVID type symptoms of shortness of breath, coughing, and/or fever. An additional 6 pts that were COVID+.
Hospital #2 ED: 32 total pts. 6 pts with COVID type symptoms. An additional 3 that were COVID +.

Hell, this is a fair question IMHO. Do arch and I have something in common? Oh, No!

Have asked myself the same type of questions. Not that I don't think Covid-19 contributed, but that I'm not sure Covid-19 itself caused the death rather than creating a weakened health condition that made death from another thing possible. It's a fair question. And I have no idea. But I can say that my cousin's husband was 60-ish and in good health until Covid-19 hospitalized him for 3 weeks. He got home and less than a week later threw a blood clot that moved to his lungs and died. Was that a Covid-19 death? In my book, yes, but we can't truly know if the clot would have happened even if he had not had Covid-19. So I'm with arch in that it may be skewing the numbers, but in my opinion, that answer in no way lessens the severity of this disease or the pandemic. Honestly, I think those type of deaths should count in the overall numbers of Covid-19 deaths. Maybe if the experts had thought early on, they could have designated the deaths as “died with Covid-19” or “died with complications attributed to Covid-19” and we wouldn't be having this discussion. However, along the same lines of thinking, if we hadn't politicized a viral pandemic, would any of us even be asking this question? We're living in unique times, where everything seems upside down to people on both sides of the aisle. Well, at least to people that were not crazy to begin with.

So you don't believe in the mandates… Do you believe that the unvaccinated have a duty to protect the rest of us? Do they have a duty to wear masks, identify as unvaccinated, social distance, or to quarantine at home if even slightly sick? The only reason Biden declared any mandates was to protect the general population. If people were acting like we're in this together instead of acting like they have due to politicization, we probably wouldn't be where we are now with mandates or people fighting about getting vaccinated. So, even though I fundamentally feel 40s' remarks are logical, the underlying political divides make it extremely hard to respect or concur.

The saddest thing I think I've seen during all of this are the people who are not vaccinated, doing whatever they can to avoid both getting the vaccine and being stigmatized for not getting the vaccine. People acting like Aaron Rodgers, pretending to be “immunized” with double-talk and lies, while exposing the world around them to more potential Covid-19 risks, are both unscrupulous and disgusting. If these same people were just honest to the rest of us, and made some real effort to be part of the greater community by protecting others from themselves, then there would be no stigma. Yet, here we are with liars lying and people dying, while our leaders perpetuate the divides. This entire situation is truly mind-boggling from the POV of both sides of the aisle.

LeBron having bad luck lately.

He got suspended for that brawl.
He got heckled by fans and got them tossed out resulting in him being mocked on the internet ala LeSnitch.
Now he might have covid.

I think Im forgetting something.

Often times people create their own luck. Maybe not all of it, but a lot of it. Lately LeBron has been creating a fair share of his own.

I disagree with the second sentence I quoted, but the reason for my response is my agreement with your first sentence. If at this point in time (going on a year(?) of vaccinations and approvals pretty much all rolled out), if you're deciding not to get vaccinated you need to have a good reason and own it. You also need to be prepared to embrace other mitigations (masking, testing, etc) to make up for your not being vaccinated. The Aaron Rodgers example is a perfect one of someone who made a selfish decision and (still) refuses to own it.

Nope, don't believe in Presidential Mandates as they are an overstep of Presidential authority. The Courts have ruled in agreement with this.

Duties do not trump Rights. Duties are a choice, Rights are given.

You say if everyone followed these Mandates, things would be better. I ask why is it that the largest number of Covid cases are in the Blue States where they follow the Mandates?

How old were you when you had small pox?

So then you must also disagree with every child in America having to get several vaccinations in order to attend school. You know, the very same vaccines that have made other diseases that have killed countless Americans their lives as well virtually non existent. Those stupid mandates and those damned lives saved. Oh the tragedy of it all!

A history of vaccine mandates

Kenneth Bridges, Ph.D.

The proverb “an ounce of prevention is worth a ton of cure” is an important idea in medicine to avoid major health crises. As part of this, vaccinations have been a part of health care for years with successful results.

One of the earliest vaccine mandates dates to the American Revolution. Smallpox left millions dead and many others disabled or disfigured. Gen. George Washington knew that the health of his troops could determine the success of an entire campaign. In the winter of 1777, while his troops were at their encampment in Morristown, N.J., Washington ordered variolation for all troops who had not had smallpox. Variolation, the grinding up of smallpox scabs to be inhaled by patients to create immunity, began in the 1720s in the American colonies.

After development of the first successful smallpox vaccine by Dr. Edward Jenner in 1796, the U.S. government began actively considering measures to provide vaccines for the public. In 1798, President John Adams signed a law that gave the government power to order quarantines in the wake of a yellow fever epidemic that left thousands dead across the country. Medicine was still in a primitive state and doctors were not certain how the disease operated or spread, but the effectiveness of quarantining the infected was undeniable.

By 1917, smallpox vaccinations were a requirement in Arkansas for school attendance. Though there were a handful of court cases attempting to challenge quarantines and vaccine requirements, they were dismissed in favor of preventing the disease and saving lives.

Smallpox was eradicated in the United States by 1952, Europe by 1953, and South America by 1971. As a result, the Centers for Disease Control recommended ending mandatory smallpox vaccinations in 1971. Concern existed among some doctors that it was too soon, but only a small number of cases were being reported in remote areas of the world. In the United States, the mandatory vaccination ended in 1972, and the last recorded case of smallpox in the world was in 1978. Smallpox was declared eradicated by the World Health Assembly in 1980.

By the early 1950s, up to 50,000 children each year were infected with polio. Parents watched in horror as their children became paralyzed in a matter of days from the disease, some children died. With the first public trials of the new polio vaccine developed by Dr. Jonas Salk, more than 2 million children across the country participated. Mass vaccinations were held and public response was overwhelmingly positive.

With the vaccine a clear success, President Eisenhower invited Salk to the White House in 1955 and publicly thanked him for “saving the children of America.” Many schools enacted vaccine mandates, and by 1963 only four cases of polio were reported in Arkansas, down from the state’s high of nearly 1,000 cases in 1949. Polio was declared eradicated in the United States in 1979.

The Arkansas state legislature passed a law mandating vaccinations for polio, diphtheria, tetanus and measles in 1967 for all public and private students, with rubella added in 1973. The result was measles, mumps and rubella were eliminated in the state within a few years.

The science of vaccines is beyond dispute. The result of vaccination mandates has been a healthier population and less lives lost to preventable diseases.

Kenneth Bridges, Ph.D., is a professor of history at South Arkansas Community College in El Dorado.

https://www.swtimes.com/story/opinion/2021/09/26/oped-history-vaccine-mandates/8363060002/

Forcing children to get barely tested Covid vaccines injected into their bodies that no one knows the long term effects of is something parents must decide on.

It ain't all about you.

You obviously haven't looked into how viral vaccines work. The entire "long germ effects" is hogwash. It's just an excuse for doing the wrong thing and killing more Americans. Try doing a little research on how viral vaccines work instead of just spreading misinformation and BS.

How Do We Know the COVID-19 Vaccine Won’t Have Long-Term Side Effects?

https://www.muhealth.org/our-storie...vaccine-wont-have-long-term-side-effects

At this point, with the vaccines receiving full approval from the FDA, continued fence-sitting regarding the vaccines becomes a more difficult thing to do. You're not going to get anything better than full FDA approval (there isn't any sort of "ok, now we REALLY think this is safe and effective" level of approval). If you distrust the process that rendered full approval those 2 vaccines, then you also need to be wary of all regulated products (Tylenol, hip/knee/spine implants, pretty much any and all medications you take including OTC, and pretty much anything an urgent-care or emergency doc or nurse ever touches when they are trying to keep you alive).

Three things to know about the long-term side effects of COVID vaccines

https://www.uab.edu/news/health/ite...long-term-side-effects-of-covid-vaccines

How can we know the COVID-19 vaccine won’t have long-term side effects?

https://wexnermedical.osu.edu/blog/covid-19-vaccine-long-term-side-effects

The stats typically are reflective of the population of each state. California is a blue state, yes, but they also have the largest population, so it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that they have the highest number of cases. To refute your point using your logic, though, Texas and Florida are numbers 2 and 3 respectively. If you've followed what's going on in those states, I wouldn't exactly call them "blue states following the mandates."

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1102807/coronavirus-covid19-cases-number-us-americans-by-state/

Stalker, eh?

Pretty much, but the people on here that were calling him a xenophobe won't remember they did.

Well that goes to prove that like minds think alike.

As of Monday, Michigan has the highest daily rate of new cases per 100,000 residents with 85, according to the New York Times, followed by New Hampshire with 73, New Mexico with 67, and Vermont and Minnesota both with 61. All the states in the top five voted for president Biden in the 2020 election.

Michigan had some of the most strict coronavirus lockdowns last year as the virus spread across the country, which resulted in bars and restaurants being shut down across the state and eventual protests at the Capitol building in Lansing.

You sure you have those numbers right? I ask, because Fulton Co. Ohio was, last week, ranked #8 in cases per 100,000 in the state of Ohio. Actual cases were somewhere in the 300 range, but considering the county population, the extrapolation came out to - if I remember correctly - something like 438 per capita.

I dunno, I just read it in the Times.

Here's an addendum to my previous post. It's really getting scary. These are posts from the Ohio Healthcare Workers Fb page addressing ER crowding. This site has more than it's share of anti vaxxers and people minimizing the pandemic, but I couldn't find a single post disputing the overcrowding issue.

"Ours is completely full. The only bed open was 1 icu crash bed in our whole hospital. I had to board 2 covid patients jn the er. 4 being boarded in the er total 1 being a pt needing icu"

"Absolutely true. Our 25 bed ER was filled with 10 hall beds, boarding 18 patients with 12 in triage when I left my last shift."

"he ER at my hospital in northwest Ohio has had overcrowding and dangerous overcrowding for weeks now. They also hold patients-sometimes for days-due to no beds. There were 72 patients in ER last night and they only have 45 rooms. This week we have the most admitted Covid + patients since the pandemic began-over 100- and that’s not counting the ones out of isolation still hospitalized. We are the regional leader for Covid patients-always have been since the beginning. On top of that, our ICU has been near or at capacity for weeks-including the old CCU and CVICU. This week we had to order more ventilators because we are running out. There were 5 codes today during the day and most of them in the covid units. One step down covid unit said today, they have put 3 more patients on vents and have several more that need one and we don’t have vents or an ICU bed for these patients. This is the reality people. And yes it is happening and scary."

"Yes all hospitals are full in Columbus and surrounding areas"

"Every Cleveland Clinic ER waiting room packed as of yesterdays shift. Never saw it like this (even at the height of COVID-19)"

"I work at 2 different ER's right now and they are both awful"

"I work at university hospitals in Westlake and we had 75 people waiting to be seen. 30 holds and no beds available!"

"Both local ERs have boarders waiting for rooms, one has hallway beds daily, both are opening more Covid floors. Had a patient today in the ER waiting for 18 hours"

"Our free standing ER is crazy busy. Transfer times to an inpatient facility are over 5 hours wait if not longer."

"frightening. I’m an old CCU nurse. I never thought I’d live to see something like this"

"Ours is completely full. The only bed open was 1 icu crash bed in our whole hospital. I had to board 2 covid patients jn the er. 4 being boarded in the er total 1 being a pt needing icu"

I’m in northeast Ohio right now. I visited this hospital during the peak last year. Their numbers are now higher than that time. They have over 40 Covid patients in house. The Emergency Department holds are over 20 because there either aren’t enough beds, staff, or transfer opportunities available. They also have staff who refuse to get vaccinated, so they will lose more this month because of the vaccine mandate. The unvaccinated workers have also spread Covid amongst themselves leading to more staffing issues.

This is not a time you want to be in a hospital right now in many areas. The care is not what you would normally see no matter what your condition. It’s a very bad time.

Another issue is psychiatric patients with Covid. They can’t place on the Psych units and they are often violent and making it so hard on the staff and stretching the limits of an already compromised staff.

And my vaccinated daughter is working at Toledo Hospital, and yes, with covid patients. Remember, I never poo poohed covid. I've questioned the .............well, it doesn't matter. when a country of some 330 million is leading the world in covid deaths............seems odd.

Something nobody talks about is the vaccinated spreading Covid to the vaxed and unvaxed.

There are so many cases of it but it never gets discussed.

Trump wanted to ban Muslims! Not particular countries. He had to go the countries route to hide his bigotry. Biden kept it in place due to covid and an increased threat level post Trump due to Trump's crappy leadership. But I'll give you 50% on this because my part of the left hates this ban.

I guess I'll have to research it. My memory says trump banned travel from china first.

He might have, I don't recall. But people lost their crap over the "Muslim Ban".

As usual your memory leaves everyone wanting.

Trump banned Muslims from radical Muslim nations because of terrorism.
Trump banned travel from China to try to slow down the spread of Covid.
Biden has banned travel from the nations in Southern Africa who are made up of mostly Black people to slow the spread of the new Covid.
We know this is not him being racist. You guys still cry racist about Trump.

Biden cried about Trump and then did the same thing himself.

Hypocrites!

Shame!

We say that about Trump because he's a damn racist. I know you can see it, but your blindness does not make it any less true. Face 40, you were conned. Your servile Trumpism is showing.

I can tell you follow screwball media and don't watch FOX for the Truth.

COVID cases double over 24 hours in South Africa, where omicron variant was discovered

New confirmed cases rose to 8,561 Wednesday from 4,373 a day earlier

https://www.foxnews.com/world/covid-double-south-africa-omicron-variant

Hard to believe they are reporting the new variant. The late crew all thinks COVID-19 is a liberal ploy…

You couldn't pay me to watch that garbage. I don't deal well with ignorance or fascists…

Actually Fox is fear mongering about the same amount as CNN.

They know that if you scare people, they will tune in.

That's what we have been telling the anti vaxers for the last year.

And why I say if everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

There is nothing wrong with changing your opinion.

I am not big on mandates for adults. As adults we can make our own choices. Children on the other hand can't make those choices because their minds can't comprehend the issues. They rely on their parents to make those choices.

I no longer have school aged children. If I did, I would have my children get the vaccinations just as I have . I would also be eager to see all the other children in the school vaccinated as well.

To me this isn't about politics, but it was become that. I maintain that had President Trump been re-elected, we would see vaccination resistance from those who voted for President Biden...they were calling it the "Trump" vaccination until the presidency changed.

I am not for shut downs, marking or labeling people, or even mandates for adults but I do think people should get vaccinated. I trust the science on this one.

I look at it this way, if this IS some big plot to kill off population or whatever, we have bigger problems then we can imagine, and if the vaccines don't do that, "they" will find another way. Those decisions are being made at paygrades way above ours.

He got his tail kicked by the golden state warriors 5 out of 6 times??? I"M KIDDING
I'm not a basketball fan, Or a Cleveland fan, I'm a Browns fan! can't help it.
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I didn't come here for that. I came to say.

Americans have been living for 10,000 years without any help or advice from "SCIENCE!" so have off!
edit: that last part it not directed at anyone personally, it's directed at Science!! man I them.

That is because the night time shows are just that, shows, not the news.

Just like "The View" is a show and not the news.