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Guess if Lamar cant strap the Ravens on his back for a win he is trash Well he was 27-37 with an equal number of TD's to INT'S. So not quite all bad. 20/32 (Baker had slightly fewer completions on more throws). https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401326507He had far fewer yards than Baker, and the 4 INTs. He did add 68 yards on 17 carries, though.
Last edited by oobernoober; 12/06/21 01:40 PM. Reason: added more and correction
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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Credit where credit is due.
I was dead wrong about Lamar. I knew he was an amazing runner. But he was not good at all throwing the ball.
His mechanics were awful.
He has improved immensely. No he is not Dan Marino and never will be.
He is a new breed of quarterback. He wins games and that counts. He wins with his legs and arm.
He is good enough as a passer. When you add his running talent he scares defenses to death.
He is a frustrating guy to play.
Credit to the Ravens and Harbaugh. They built an offense around what Lamar is.
They have had problems in the playoffs. And like any team they can be schemed against.
He won a MVP and the Ravens have won a lot with Lamar.
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I think the reality of Lamar is somewhere in the middle between God's gift to the QB position and "a RB that can throw". He deserves immense credit for the improvement he's shown. He's clearly working on the weaknesses to his game... but the yearly cycle seems to always end the same way. Teams scheme to limit the damage he does with his legs and then force him to beat them as a traditional QB.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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Yeah, part that ticks me off the most is if we just would have sat Conklin two more weeks we would have him this upcoming weekend. Stefanski and the medical staff destroyed that chance though I had no idea his elbow was connected to his knee. News & Notes: T Jack Conklin out 'multiple weeks' with elbow injury Nov. 1st https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/news-notes-t-jack-conklin-out-multiple-weeks-with-elbow-injuryBrowns Jack Conklin Goes Down with Knee Injury Nov. 28th. Almost as soon as the Cleveland Browns got Jack Conklin back from a dislocated elbow, they see him go down to a knee injury against the Baltimore Ravens. https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/gameday/jack-conklin-knee-injuryThese two injuries had nothing to do with each other and the medical staff clearing him to play from his elbow injury had nothing to do with his knee in jury.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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My statement has nothing at all to do with Baker. It stands independent of any other QB in the league. Period. Lamar SUCKED. But, yes, Baker was Hot Garbage. No dancing here because I do not care what the GMs would do; that and how does one argue someone else making a guess and stating it as fact? You don't, you ignore it.
BUT, to take your bait and answer: an answer requires nuance.
Lamar, without running, is trash. He is NOT a drop-back passer and never will be. In this regard, Baker will forever and always be superior. Lately, without a run game, Baker is trash, BUT he *IS* a drop-back passer and given WRs who give him an equal opportunity to complete passes downfield, I would take Baker all day every day.
Lamar's success comes ENTIRELY by virtue of his legs; that's not a knock, that's just a fact. If he couldn't run the way he can, he'd be worse than Teddy Bridgewater looked last night and he shows no signs of growing beyond this. Because of this, his shelf life is a LOT shorter. Conversely, Baker will NEVER make a ton of plays with his legs. He'll roll out and bootleg, and will once a game scramble if he has to, but he's just never going to do what Lamar can do; but, he is going to have success in passing that Lamar will never have. Both are going to be in the league for years to come, but if I'm betting on who is out of the league first, I'm putting the money on Lamar's career ending before Baker's.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Guess if Lamar cant strap the Ravens on his back for a win he is trash Well he was 27-37 with an equal number of TD's to INT'S. So not quite all bad. 20/32 (Baker had slightly fewer completions on more throws). https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401326507He had far fewer yards than Baker, and the 4 INTs. He did add 68 yards on 17 carries, though. I was talking about Lamar against the Steelers. Baker didn't actually do a bad job against the Steelers going for 20 of 31. We couldn't score worth a damn but Baker was fairly accurate in that game.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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My statement has nothing at all to do with Baker. It stands independent of any other QB in the league. Period. Lamar SUCKED. But, yes, Baker was Hot Garbage. No dancing here because I do not care what the GMs would do; that and how does one argue someone else making a guess and stating it as fact? You don't, you ignore it.
BUT, to take your bait and answer: an answer requires nuance.
Lamar, without running, is trash. He is NOT a drop-back passer and never will be. In this regard, Baker will forever and always be superior. Lately, without a run game, Baker is trash, BUT he *IS* a drop-back passer and given WRs who give him an equal opportunity to complete passes downfield, I would take Baker all day every day.
Lamar's success comes ENTIRELY by virtue of his legs; that's not a knock, that's just a fact. If he couldn't run the way he can, he'd be worse than Teddy Bridgewater looked last night and he shows no signs of growing beyond this. Because of this, his shelf life is a LOT shorter. Conversely, Baker will NEVER make a ton of plays with his legs. He'll roll out and bootleg, and will once a game scramble if he has to, but he's just never going to do what Lamar can do; but, he is going to have success in passing that Lamar will never have. Both are going to be in the league for years to come, but if I'm betting on who is out of the league first, I'm putting the money on Lamar's career ending before Baker's. this was a long ass post to say that lamar is just better than baker mayfield. lol, "if he couldnt run". yea, if peyton manning couldnt read defense, he would be garbage. "man, if only baker was 2 inches taller". lmfao please stop it. and betting that lamar's career is over before bakers? can you please remind the board who currently has a fractured shoulder? yall keep trying this running QB shelf life nonsense and it never comes true. but watch, in 10 years when he finally misses multiple games, you'll be jumpiung out the rafters talking about "see!! see!! it was only a matter of time. if lamar career ended TODAY, and baker mayfield went the next 10 years with the same mediocre results, it would be universally agreed upon that lamar had the better career. please stop pretending otherwise. i mean good freakin god look what you just wrote: Lamar, without running, is trash. He is NOT a drop-back passer and never will be. In this regard, Baker will forever and always be superior. Lately, without a run game, Baker is trash, BUT he *IS* a drop-back passer and given WRs who give him an equal opportunity to complete passes downfield, I would take Baker all day every day. do you not realize that if you ALSO gave lamar WR's like that, he'd be better too? do you not realize that if you ALSO gave lamar an o line like baker, he'd be better too? you just think you can change one thing and that doesn't apply to anyone else, huh? do you not understand how much of an indictment you just made on baker? if lamar jackson was our QB RIGHT NOW, we'd be sitting at the top of the AFC north because of the WR's, o line, and RB's. if baker mayfield was on the ravens RIGHT NOW, they'd be in the bottom of the AFC north. lamar has had a worse o line, worse RB's, worse receiving core than baker has since they were drafted. and yet, MVP, division titles, tons of wins, and oh yea; he's only lost ONCE to baker mayfield in a head to head matchup. i said it a thousands times and ill say it again; we shouldve drafted lamar #1 overall. because he is more TALENTED overall than any of the QB's. its him and josh allen battling for whose the best. we have the 4th best QB in our own division. im so sick of yall making excuses for baker. this dude has had the same 4 years to improve like the other QB's, yet his TV ads are more productive than his actual production on the field. i love being a browns fan but im so sick of tired of always drafting the wrong QB. and especially other browns fans sticking to the same tired ass obsolete takes about mobile QB's. but i forgot who im arguing with. this is the same board that wanted mitch trubisky over deshaun watson. god its gonna be ugly the next time we gotta start talking about drafting a QB in the 1st round in 2 years probably.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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lol! I thought you were replying to someone else. My bad.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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lamar beat us even with him throwing 4 picks. so if hes not a good QB, by your logic, that means baker is hot garbage.
right? Baltimore beat us by taking away the run and we had no answer for it. In no way do I think Lamar was the reason we lost. so our QB couldnt win when the run is taken away from him? how come lamar is still at the top of the division despite having a worse o line and on backup RB's? does josh allen need a run game to win? dont most defense try to stop the run and make a QB pass? thats why you draft a QB #1 overall, right? to carry teams to W's when they take away something you do well? Are you under the impression that I was defending Baker? Please point me to what I posted that suggests this, I am curious. Personally, I do not think Lamar is the reason we lost that game, that is all I am saying and I stand by it. I didn't stop to think about the butt-hurt that opinion would trigger.
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
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lamar beat us even with him throwing 4 picks. so if hes not a good QB, by your logic, that means baker is hot garbage.
right? Baltimore beat us by taking away the run and we had no answer for it. In no way do I think Lamar was the reason we lost. so our QB couldnt win when the run is taken away from him? how come lamar is still at the top of the division despite having a worse o line and on backup RB's? does josh allen need a run game to win? dont most defense try to stop the run and make a QB pass? thats why you draft a QB #1 overall, right? to carry teams to W's when they take away something you do well? Are you under the impression that I was defending Baker? Please point me to what I posted that suggests this, I am curious. Personally, I do not think Lamar is the reason we lost that game, that is all I am saying and I stand by it. I didn't stop to think about the butt-hurt that opinion would trigger. my original comment was to Tab, not you. remember that the next time you use the word trigger. nobody was thinking about you. you responded to my post addressed to someone else, then i responded back. you dont get to make that claim, especially since the evidence says it applies to you, not me.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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No, Lamar is not more talented as a QB. He's a better athlete. if lamar jackson was our QB RIGHT NOW, we'd be sitting at the top of the AFC north because of the WR's, o line, and RB's. Absolutely zero chance of that unless we switched our offense to the All-RPO thing that Baltimore uses. Baltimore wouldn't be there, either, if not for that defense and a HoF kicker. and betting that lamar's career is over before bakers? can you please remind the board who currently has a fractured shoulder? yall keep trying this running QB shelf life nonsense and it never comes true It has come true over and over and over again with every new sensation of a running QB that has come into the league. They burn brightly, but they don't last long.
Last edited by PrplPplEater; 12/06/21 02:30 PM.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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No, Lamar is not more talented as a QB. He's a better athlete. if lamar jackson was our QB RIGHT NOW, we'd be sitting at the top of the AFC north because of the WR's, o line, and RB's. Absolutely zero chance of that unless we switched our offense to the All-RPO thing that Baltimore uses. and betting that lamar's career is over before bakers? can you please remind the board who currently has a fractured shoulder? yall keep trying this running QB shelf life nonsense and it never comes true It has come true over and over and over again with every new sensation of a running QB that has come into the league. They burn brightly, but they don't last long. uh huh, sure. meanwhile our pocket passer with the fractured shoulder....
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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I think he means QB in the classic sense. Even as we are seeing the evidence that the QB position is changing. From a purely drop back passing aspect, when we see "good Baker" he is better. Where I take issue with his comments is the fact that the QB position has and is evolving into much more than that. Take Baltimore for example, they tailored their offense around their QB. Something most teams do to one extent or the other.
The fact of the matter is, the run option can be just as deadly of a weapon for a QB like Lamar as what play action can be for a drop back QB. Some people don't understand that the QB position is changing. I'll have to give credit to Peen on this one. He saw it long before I did. The fact Baker is a drop back QB doesn't make him a more talented QB at all. It just makes him a different style of QB. You can't argue with results. The results are that Lamar is a more successful QB to this point and it's not even close.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I'm not sure what the debate is about.
If Baker played like Lamar has in his last two games - he would be roundly blasted as a bust by many fans and posters. Period. Win lose or draw - the result is not what I am talking about. If Baker played (and he has) games as badly as Lamar - he would be labeled by many as a bust and trash.
I don't know what extenuating issues the Ravens do or don't have - I don't follow that team. I do follow the Browns - when Baker has played like dog poop, there has normally been some external issues influencing his performance in addition to Baker's own issues and struggles. When I talk about Baker I look at his body of work and when he has lit up the NFL and I think the bad times are not a true reflection of his ceiling and ability .... Lamar is probably in a similar situation. He has done great things. He has done more than just run and last year he really improved his throwing. Not sure what is up with him right now, but I'd imagine there are factors impacting him. .. . . BUT - when I look at Lamar's performance yesterday and know that Posters who literally can't wait to bash Baker while loving on Lamar won't utter a peep about how bad Lamar played against us and against Pittsburgh.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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like who though?
cause even OCD can back me on this. i wanted our defense to lay lamar TF out. im legitimately ticked off because we DID pick this dude off 4 times, 3 in one quarter, and got NOTHING out of that. our offense did nothing. lamar still made ENOUGH plays to get points on the board and pulled out a W. lamar got the game tying TD after playing like absolute trash, and then went for the kill and came up short.
but you do know the difference right? lamar comes up short, his team is still at the top of the division because of the OTHER games he already won.
baker comes up short, and we're back to the cellar drinking wine like mariah carey during the holidays.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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Thankfully the Pittsburgh Steelers (of all teams) helped the Browns. There are no more excuses. It's time to win some football games. Please Kevin Stefanski, pull your head out of your behind and let this offensive talent shine.
The Browns finally have a leader in the building. It won't be long before Jim Schwartz is in charge. Thankfully.
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lamar has had a worse o line, worse RB's, worse receiving core than baker has since they were drafted. and yet, MVP, division titles, tons of wins, and oh yea; he's only lost ONCE to baker mayfield in a head to head matchup. Lamar has had much better coaching, been in the same system that was designed specifically for him for 4 years, and for his first 2 years, had the #3 and #2 scoring defense in the NFL. But the Baker comparison aside, the Ravens have only scored more than 20 points once in their last 6 games (yet they won 3 of them). I don't know the real cause of that but Lamar has looked very pedestrian for much of this year. Have defenses figured him out? Does he have the skill set to change and respond? Are there other factors? I don't know..
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"lamar has had a worse o line, worse RB's, worse receiving core than baker has since they were drafted"
OL - nope. Ravens until this year had as good or better OL than Browns during Baker/Lamar years. RBs - yes. Receivers - nope. M. Andrews and M. Brown better than anyone on the Browns.
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Thankfully the Pittsburgh Steelers (of all teams) helped the Browns. There are no more excuses. It's time to win some football games. Please Kevin Stefanski, pull your head out of your behind and let this offensive talent shine. +1 ![thumbsup thumbsup](/images/graemlins/default_dark/thumbsup.gif) my thoughts exactly.
Joe Thomas #73
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woah.... watch the football after he kicks it!
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Weather game tonight in Buffalo. 40 MPH winds, temps in the 20's, might snow. It'll be tough to to throw, kick FGs, or punt well. Team that can run wins, IMO.
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Remember when Browns fans were upset we lost to the Patroits?
They look pretty legit
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Remember when Browns fans were upset we lost to the Patroits?
They look pretty legit They are the best team in the league.
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I think that Belichick just completely trolled the NFL. Mac Jones throws only 3 passes, completing 2, and the Pats win by 4. Only Belichick.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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After watching the game it seems to me the Bills, i.e. Josh Allen, couldn't make the big play when they had to. Sound familiar?
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After watching the game it seems to me the Bills, i.e. Josh Allen, couldn't make the big play when they had to. Sound familiar? Josh Allen has more leeway because of the season he had last year.
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Remember when Browns fans were upset we lost to the Patroits?
They look pretty legit They are the best team in the league. So Why aren't the Browns a BETTER team then They ARE! (remember folks it was Cfrs15, iirc, who said the offseaon take it easy approach was going to come back to bite us.) Baker, seemed to put effort right after the season ended, into the get together in Austin? away from the coaches. The coaches, didn't even keep some of those guys on the team, what's up with that. the Browns, take it easy approach to offseason, or training camp, where the QB seemed to work harder by himself, 1000 miles away from the team facilities, and way back starting a week after the season ended, and then, everybody had so many rotating days off during the training camp and mini camp, That whole approach hasn't seemed to have had the, bring everybody together to gel as a well oiled machine of a team, as much as other places around the league, maybe even including the Patriots. ( stay healthy or get help, folks
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Bloody amazing.
There are things about Belichick that turned me against him. He is a cheater. That was proven.
He is also the greatest coach of all times.
Bear in mind he is also the GM.
All the bs about Brady making BB is just that BS.
He won with Matt Cassel and Jimmy G. We wins.
He builds rosters and coaches players. He masters execution. He is the best game planner period. Nobody is close.
Last year he had a depleated roster from injuries and losing Brady. He drafts Jones. Gets players back on defense.
Now the Patriots are on the top of the AFC. I am not saying they will win the SB. Who knows but damn?
His record as a coach is off the chain.
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Freaking patriots man. Nfl version of Michael Myers.
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Remember when Browns fans were upset we lost to the Patroits?
They look pretty legit It might have had more to do with how we looked while losing. Like, never actually being in the game. I might add, finishing 3rd in the AFCN last year is how we ended up with NE and AZ on the schedule. Two Biblical-level butt kickings.
Last edited by CapCity Dawg; 12/07/21 08:06 AM.
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
#gmstrong
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I think that Belichick just completely trolled the NFL. Mac Jones throws only 3 passes, completing 2, and the Pats win by 4. Only Belichick. Belichick and Paul Brown ... In a sport in which rules have tilted drastically toward the aerial game, it's difficult now to remember when champions ran to glory. It's harder still to conceive of a game in which one team - the winning team, no less - failed to throw a pass.
But that's exactly what took place on Dec. 3, 1950, when the host Browns defeated the two-time-champion Eagles, 13-7, without putting a ball in the air.
Though it had happened four times previously, it hasn't reoccurred in the subsequent 65 years and probably never will. What caused it to happen on that long-ago Sunday in Cleveland was a quirky combination of bad weather; sound football; and, especially, revenge.
"He," Cleveland coach Paul Brown said afterward of bulletin-board comments by his Eagles counterpart, Greasy Neale, "did get our men steamed up." Another league?
The historic game had its origins two months earlier.
On Sept. 16, the Eagles and Browns met before 71,237 fans at Philadelphia's Municipal Stadium, a crowd drawn there by a matchup being dubbed football's "First World Series."*Excerpt - read the whole story at link below* https://www.inquirer.com/philly/spo...w_zero_passes_-_and_beat_the_Eagles.html
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Belichick never faulters in preparation.
He constantly quizzes his players during practice. If the situation is this what are you going to do?
Cold weather, wet weather, windy conditions be ready.
I noticed before the game Patriots field goal kicker practicing his kicks to feel the wind.
Then in the game the Bills miss a 36 yarder windblown ball.
In the game last night they knew it was on the OL and runners. Don't fumble. Do your job.
In New England he had a losing season twice. His first season 5-11. Last season 7-9.
His overall record in NE and Cleveland. 289-140.
In NE his record is 253-96 that is a 725 winning percentage.
6 Super Bowl wins 3 AFC Championships.
Considering his record was played in the modern era with free agency. Not during the time you could keep your talent like when the steelers won.
Bloody amazing.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136 |
ok cause he is great the no hesitation is cause he has a guy who can go get the ball and catch it in Andrews he locates him and just chucks it in his direction without hesitation...Baker has no such WR and would get INT'd more than Lamar does.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,842 Likes: 180
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,842 Likes: 180 |
The Bills K missed an easy 33 yard FG that would have changed the game. They would have been down only 14-13 0n that last drive and got close enough for an easy FG. Granted, the conditions with the wind were not good but that's how easy it can be to lose an important game. Give credit to the Pats.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,618 Likes: 587
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,618 Likes: 587 |
like who though?
cause even OCD can back me on this. i wanted our defense to lay lamar TF out. im legitimately ticked off because we DID pick this dude off 4 times, 3 in one quarter, and got NOTHING out of that. our offense did nothing. lamar still made ENOUGH plays to get points on the board and pulled out a W. lamar got the game tying TD after playing like absolute trash, and then went for the kill and came up short.
but you do know the difference right? lamar comes up short, his team is still at the top of the division because of the OTHER games he already won.
baker comes up short, and we're back to the cellar drinking wine like mariah carey during the holidays. I am not disagreeing with anything you said. But when Lamar comes up short - his TEAM is better than Bakers TEAM. Whether it's culture, talent, coaching.... both QB's have played sucky games. But Baker gets labelled as a bust and the focus is on him. Lamar plays sucky and he gets a pass. That's all I am pointing out. Look - Baker has struggled in games - the Browns won and the Baker haters were still out hating on Baker. Baker played great in a game we won - but he only completed 14 passes and the Baker haters were out in force again with criticism or at least posting that he deserved no credit. That's all my point was. It's frustrating to hear the broken record and the way in which different QB's are given praise or criticism. Anyway - I am back to trying to tell myself the season isn't over. Win our next game and anything can happen. I'm not 100% convinced - but I am trying to find some conviction!
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,583 Likes: 117
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,583 Likes: 117 |
Cheatriots did nothing special. They simply ran the ball down the Bills throats.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,455 Likes: 1319
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,455 Likes: 1319 |
What they do each week is take advantage of and play according to the team they're up against and the weather conditions. They did that exact same thing against the Bills and it worked.
That's what good teams do. They don't have one standard game plan. They adjust their game plan to exploit their opponents weaknesses. And don't get me wrong, I don't believe that the Patriots are the best team in football by any means. But that often times doesn't decide much. What decides things is which good team is playing their best football at the time. And they are at this time.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,842 Likes: 180
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,842 Likes: 180 |
Right and the Bills made no adjustments the whole game to stop them. The same thing others have accused us of doing. I thought Shaun McDermott was suppose to be a good coach?
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,583 Likes: 117
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,583 Likes: 117 |
I agree. The Bills sadly reminded me of the Browns.
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