I guess where my issue is, is where people are quick to point out that Hooper dropped the first pass but not willing to give him credit where credit is due.
You keep making these spurious claims. No-one said Hooper didn't make any plays. I said I remembered that the first play of the game he dropped a ball that hit his hands - the topic was about being elite, I highlighted a play that indicated a lack of Eliteness. It was not a full critique of all of Hooper's contributions on the day. The drop is something we have seen Hooper struggle with in other games, again indicating a relevant observation about his eliteness . No-one said receivers don't ever or should never drop balls.... and I didn't and no one else claimed Hooper didn't have some good plays.
You keep going to this "ALL or NOTHING" extremism stuff.
I don't know what happened on the interception - it could easily be all on Baker. I don't know. On the game cuts on Sunday Ticket they don't show the slow mo, or wide angle replay. I do know that Baker throws to receivers who haven't made their break in many games - whether that's a factor I dont know.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Does anyone remember the incomplete pass on 3rd & 10 to Landry before the missed FG at the start of the 4th Q? I had stepped away and only saw the missed FG. The reason I ask is because Stefanski echoed Mayfield's regret for "not putting an opponent away" (due to "conservative" play-calling), but then slipped in what I consider to be a passive-aggressive dig at Mayfield. He said he also lamented not making the FG to make it a 3 score game (18 pts), and then added he also regretted not converting on the 3rd down play before the missed FG. On the radio, Rizzo said it appeared that both Landry and Stefanski were visibly annoyed with Baker.
Did he throw to the wrong guy? Was someone else open? Was it a bad pass? Or none of the above?
That's not the one where Landry only went 7 yards out is it? Landry looked annoyed after that one, but I don't know if he realizes he had two guys draped around him and Baker was being chased to the sideline... and even IF Landry had caught it, he wasn't anywhere close to getting that 1st Down. He was going to be crushed on the spot like a grape.
Not sure, but you might be talking about the 3rd down incomplete to Landry at 7:34 of the 4th Q. That was the Browns next drive after the missed FG. The incompletion I was wondering about happened on 3rd & 10 at 11:39 of 4Q.
In the same vein, I thought Philips had an excellent game for his first time back. My eyes only saw the dumb penalty, but otherwise looked fast.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
In general, to all: On a side note, about Janovich on the on side kick - he messed up. Okay? No sugar coating it, he messed up.
In explanation, he's out there to knock the snot out of the raven player that has a chance to recover it. He's not out there to recover the kick. Now, as the play played out, he messed up, of course. he was too focused on blocking, and not watching the ball, at all.
On an additional side note, and I can't find the link now - but on the on side kick, the Ravens had 3 or 4 people lined up illegally. You can even see the side judge motioning that some of them needed to move closer to the kicking line. Please, someone, find this video. The ref is motioning for ravens players to step closer, they don't. He doesn't throw the flag.
On kickoffs, you need to be at the line, not a yard or 2 behind it. So, while not called, it was an illegal kick anyway.
Why not? Because in that situation they have one bleeping job - catch the ball - and none of those guys but Janovich have experience doing that in a game setting. I am saying that situation calls for WRs, RBs, TEs, and maybe DBs who know they only need to catch the ball and get down.
Last edited by Dave; 12/13/2107:40 PM. Reason: Janovich
Why not? Because in that situation they have one bleeping job - catch the ball - and none of those guys but Janovich have experience doing that in a game setting. I am saying that situation calls for WRs, RBs, TEs, and maybe DBs who know they only need to catch the ball and get down.
I think perhaps you don't understand the "hands" team.
Tell me what I'm missing, because I surely remember years past when the "hands team" on anticipated onside kicks was populated with players familiar with catching the football.
But in obvious on side kick situations, you have your hitters, and your hands people. The hitters go out and hit the kicking teams players, allowing for the 'hands' people to get the ball. It's a fairly simple concept.
I see 7 guys in the front line and 2 guys, both outside the hashmarks, a few yards behind them, and the whole middle of the field wide open. 2 more receiving team guys well off the ball, and out of view. So I'm supposed to believe that the "hands team" is 2 guys about 35-40 yards apart?
So, 7 Browns "hitters" vs 10 Ravens + Tucker, and 2 guys in the immediate area to chase down the ball that - ostensibly - we hope will get past the front 7 hitters - who are not used to catching footballs, but happen to make a really easy target for a good kicker to clang the ball off of. In an era when successful onside kicks are really rare, the Browns have succeeded in making it much easier. Brilliant!
A win is a win. Fun game to be in the stands... until that realization that Tucker was probably going to kick a game winner and effectively end our season.
Don't understand how this team has no idea how to play with a lead or play from behind.
Oh well, not convincing enough to give me real high hopes, but "just win baby" needs to be our mantra again this Saturday against the team that made it famous. Would love to see a complete victory.
Oh yeah, also wondering if Rish needs a loan??
Originally Posted by Rishuz
There is zero chance the Browns are winning tomorrow.
I saw the earlier posts about James Hudson’s good day: that’s a good sign. He was SO bad in the preseason and early on this year. Testament to coaching and hard work. It means the potential is in there somewhere
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Those knocking Hooper don't want you to see this one.
A basic pass and catch. They claim he doesn't get open. One poster said the only reason Hooper catches the ball is because Baker makes such terrific passes when he is covered. The film says no.
Psssst...it was a two-yard pass that Hooper chose to fall down to catch. That is EXACTLY what I am talking about.
Regarding the underlined above...that is not what I said Mr. Comprehension...I said that Baker (frequently) has to make impressive throws just to GET THE BALL TO HIM...if Baker could control what Hooper catches and what he drops...I would have said just that.
He seems to have made progress , at least in one game. As you said terrible pre season and in his early first action. Maybe he has and will continue to make improvements at Right Tackle ( not left )
I can just imagine how bad we all would have felt if They came back and won this game because of the non call on the onside kick. It would have been the 2nd game the Ravens won because of a non call. In reality we should be tied with them for 1st place. Can anyone remember the last time we won a game because of a non call that favored us? I can't.
Keep in mind who still stalks me with personal jabs. So don't be upset when you get it back. Because you will. Just not now. I'll wait. Because trashing the pure football forum is not the place for that trash. Not that you seem to care.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
You keep making these spurious claims. No-one said Hooper didn't make any plays. I said I remembered that the first play of the game he dropped a ball that hit his hands - the topic was about being elite, I highlighted a play that indicated a lack of Eliteness. It was not a full critique of all of Hooper's contributions on the day. .
You focused on the negative while ignoring mentioning anything positive. You can choose to dance around that and call it anything you like. It is what it is.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
So it's not really about the fact he caught the ball. To you it's "how he caught the ball" that matters. Style points? Have you ever considered becoming a judge in Olympic figure skating?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
So it's not really about the fact he caught the ball. To you it's "how he caught the ball" that matters. Style points? Have you ever considered becoming a judge in Olympic figure skating?
No...it's my attempt to explain to you that Hooper is awful at getting separation and YAC. All one has to do is watch a game or two...apparently...that is something you haven't tried yet.
Oh I've watched. He caught five passes in this game alone. He had great separation on the play. You might wish to try and use an example that illustrates your point instead of one that shows the exact opposite of it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Oh I've watched. He caught five passes in this game alone. He had great separation on the play. You might wish to try and use an example that illustrates your point instead of one that shows the exact opposite of it.
So you think Hooper is able to regularly get separation. You see a different game than I do.
I can just imagine how bad we all would have felt if They came back and won this game because of the non call on the onside kick. It would have been the 2nd game the Ravens won because of a non call. In reality we should be tied with them for 1st place. Can anyone remember the last time we won a game because of a non call that favored us? I can't.
To be fair here I was pretty surprised Clowney wasn't called for roughing on the sack that followed the onside kick. He drove through and landed on the QB. Couple that with a bias to call crap calls on us and it was pretty surprising no call.
It's always excellent play calling when the players execute the play and it's always called terrible play calling when they don't.
j/c
As often is the case we had "The Tale of Two Halves"
We had both good Baker and bad Baker depending on which half you watched. From any of those who claimed Baker has been scared out of throwing the deep ball, I hope you watched the game. We had the offense executing in the first half and failing to execute in the second half. We had the defense playing well in the first half then faltering in the second half.
You always beat the drum that essentially any play is a good play call and it's up to the players to execute it correctly and it should work or that if it worked once, it should work every time.. essentially laying all responsibility for offensive success on the players and none of the play callers. There is a reason some OCs get a reputation for being good play callers and others don't.. and the ones that are good make millions of dollars per year... because the rest of the NFL understands that not every play has the same chance of success and how you order and call your plays is important and has to adapt to what the defense is doing. And throughout the game, defenses adjust to what is working against them so the offense has to adapt as well
I don't know what adjustments the Ravens made at halftime but Baker and Chubb were both on the field in the second half, both of them said we got too conservative, we abandoned the pass first offense that was opening up the run in the first half.. so I'll take their opinion over yours.
It's always excellent play calling when the players execute the play and it's always called terrible play calling when they don't.
j/c
As often is the case we had "The Tale of Two Halves"
We had both good Baker and bad Baker depending on which half you watched. From any of those who claimed Baker has been scared out of throwing the deep ball, I hope you watched the game. We had the offense executing in the first half and failing to execute in the second half. We had the defense playing well in the first half then faltering in the second half.
You always beat the drum that essentially any play is a good play call and it's up to the players to execute it correctly and it should work or that if it worked once, it should work every time.. essentially laying all responsibility for offensive success on the players and none of the play callers. There is a reason some OCs get a reputation for being good play callers and others don't.. and the ones that are good make millions of dollars per year... because the rest of the NFL understands that not every play has the same chance of success and how you order and call your plays is important and has to adapt to what the defense is doing. And throughout the game, defenses adjust to what is working against them so the offense has to adapt as well
I don't know what adjustments the Ravens made at halftime but Baker and Chubb were both on the field in the second half, both of them said we got too conservative, we abandoned the pass first offense that was opening up the run in the first half.. so I'll take their opinion over yours.
Spot on...again. (I promise I'm not stalking you this morning.)
I'll add to your post the whole concept of match-ups and exploiting the defense - aka taking what they are giving us. We've not been able to contain a TE STR. Our opponents know this and they exploit that. On the other hand, we run what we want to run by God and when KS says it's time to go away from that - whether it's working or not be damned - we will go away from that. At times we seem to out-smart ourselves by going away from what's working BEFORE the defense actually begins to figure it out. See Ravens game #2.
Every play I've ever seen in shorts at a practice goes for a TD. Every single one. Every play is "drawn up" to not be stopped. The problem is that the other team has pro players too...and matchups are critical to helping a player succeed by winning his matchups....asking a TE to block a DE is silliness. We've shied away from running right whenever Conklin is out. Defenses have also noticed that and they play accordingly. We adjusted to that...but it's limited our run game effectiveness as we are more predictable. Defenses are loading the box and daring us to throw and we bunch up the LOS with extra TE's and have ONE guy split out wide...ish...so all but 1-2 guys are stacked at the LOS and they have more guys there than we have guys to block...but we pound that square peg. I think KS, his play-calling and the O has been somewhat figured out by the league and we've not adjusted to that - in game or otherwise.
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