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as it should be


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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Originally Posted by archbolddawg
When I make picks on the spread, I don't look at who I feel will WIN the game. It's fairly simple.

Okay, then with 19 players on the Covid list and starting our third string QB, did you have any realistic expectations we would win this game?


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Originally Posted by lampdogg
Just clicking.

Yeah let’s fire the coaches, that’s always done wonders for us.
I don't want anybody fired but if I hear "we have to own it and learn from it" one more time, after watching a winnable game slip away, I'm going to drive to Berea and kick somebody in the gonads. When does the "learn from it" actually start? What have we learned? What have we changed as a result of what we have learned?

Evidently one thing we have NOT learned is that if you are going to get real conservative in your playcalling late in games and put it all on your defense, then put your defense in soft zones to give up sizeable chunks of yardage at a time.. that you are really just setting yourself up to lose more slowly and painfully... we keep doing it, then when we lose we say we need to learn from it. willynilly


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If he was truly interested in learning from the past, he'd sit down and watch film of his predecessors and start stealing their catchphrases to mix it up a little.

"Except for three or four runs, we shut them down. I have a gut feeling that we need to look at the film, but, we battled. They battled. On to the next one. Let's own our mistakes and learn from it and go 1-0 next week."


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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God no! I never want to hear "We battled" again!


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by archbolddawg
When I make picks on the spread, I don't look at who I feel will WIN the game. It's fairly simple.

Okay, then with 19 players on the Covid list and starting our third string QB, did you have any realistic expectations we would win this game?

No, not with the browns being -6.5. But that's irrelevant to your claim that "even people on dawgtalkers pickem's" didn't think the browns would win, which you used as some leverage point for your agenda.

You're talking in circles, as you always do. The answer, my friend, is you're twisting in the wind. As usual.

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Even when someone apologizes when they misspoke it's not good enough for you. Since you refuse to be honest enough to answer the question even though you understand it, I'll stop asking. That's okay. We both know you didn't think they would win straight up. If you did you would have answered the question before now.


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by archbolddawg
When I make picks on the spread, I don't look at who I feel will WIN the game. It's fairly simple.

Okay, then with 19 players on the Covid list and starting our third string QB, did you have any realistic expectations we would win this game?
I followed this extremely repetitive conversation back about 5 or 6 posts and I'm still not sure what the answer to your question has to do with anything.


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Even when someone apologizes when they misspoke it's not good enough for you. Since you refuse to be honest enough to answer the question even though you understand it, I'll stop asking. That's okay. We both know you didn't think they would win straight up. If you did you would have answered the question before now.

Dude, you straight up tried to use dawgtalker pickems as a leverage point for what people in that felt about the game - deciding that even Browns fans didn't expect them to win.

I have simply pointed out that the game is not about win or lose, it's about the spread. Period. End of discussion.

When I made my pick, with the Browns being -6.5, and with some 19 players out, I picked the raiders who had basically no one out.

It's really simple. I did not expect the Browns to win by 7 or more points. neither did the others. Why you can't get that through your head I have no idea.

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It's to try and show that a game most people thought we had a very little chance of winning when being calm, rational and thinking through it, suddenly changed in the heat of the moment because the team played over their heads. We had a chance to win it in the end but that would have required a full four quarters of football by an outmatched team. When all was said and done it ended the way people expected it would before the game ever started and their emotions overruled their common sense. Sort of like people carrying on about the Ravens game which we actually won. So now it seems if we win, people aren't happy because of the way we won. If we are outmatched due to covid and a third string QB starting it's that we didn't overcome unbeatable odds.


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So did you expect us to win the game outright or not? Just keep spewing on and avoid the question like you've done so far.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Two of the people on the pregame show picked the Browns to win.

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We had a chance to win it in the end but that would have required a full four quarters of football by an outmatched team.
No it didn't. Whatever happened for the first 57.5 minutes is irrelevant, we weren't perfect, the Raiders weren't perfect, none of that matters. It would have required one first down with 2 1/2 minutes to go in the game. That's all it would have taken, that's what it came down to. We were there.

Quote
It's to try and show that a game most people thought we had a very little chance of winning when being calm, rational and thinking through it, suddenly changed in the heat of the moment because the team played over their heads.
So what if it did? I honestly gave us a 50/50 chance to win going in, I'm 100% mad about the way it ended... not 50%.

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If we are outmatched due to covid and a third string QB starting it's that we didn't overcome unbeatable odds.
Stop throwing words around that don't apply.. they weren't unbeatable odds, we had the odds beat, we had the Raiders beat... We had a 1 point lead and the ball with 2:30 to play... I don't know, maybe our coaching staff thinks like you and was just happy we got that far and didn't care any more since we weren't supposed to win anyway...

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Maybe they put the ball in the hands of our best offensive weapon and some people think that's the wrong thing to do. And of course the TV announcers pick both teams between them. That's what they get paid to do. If you actually think a healthy Raiders team isn't a mismatch against 19 players out on covid which caused us to start our third string QB, I would advise you not to bet on sports.

I care as much as anyone if we win. I just had a firm grasp of the obvious going into that game.


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Maybe they put the ball in the hands of our best offensive weapon and some people think that's the wrong thing to do.
Three times in a row, behind our equally depleted OL, when every single person within a 100 mile radius KNEW that's what you were going to do? Yea, that was the wrong thing to do.

9 defenders in the box on first down, 7 in the box and 2 LBs just outside the box on second down, 9 in the box on third down... Nick Chubb is a phenomenal running back but this isn't a Marvel movie, he's still a human being who isn't going to run through 9 other grown ass men just because we would like him to.... and because we are scared to do anything different.

Sadly I think our coaches think a lot like you do. they would rather sit in a post game presser and say "Well, we gave the ball to Chubb, we believe in Chubb...." because it really is a hard point to argue... and they would rather say that and not get called out for it than have to defend why they called a play action bootleg for Nick Mullens to throw it to one of our TEs for a first down if it didn't work. Hell even Kurt Warner said during the timeout before the 3rd down play, "You just gotta wonder if the Browns are going to go for the win here or be satisfied handing the ball off and if you gotta punt...." He knew the odds of getting 3 yards against a 9 or 10 man box was highly unlikely....


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
So did you expect us to win the game outright or not? Just keep spewing on and avoid the question like you've done so far.
You're changing your goal posts still. Your original post was about 14 people in the pickems didn't pick the Browns to win. You thought that proved something.

When I explained that betting against the spread was different than picking a winner or loser, you changed tactics/topics. Got that, Larry?

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I think you and Kurt Warner should have your own show.


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
So did you expect us to win the game outright or not? Just keep spewing on and avoid the question like you've done so far.

Talk about moving the goalposts. The pickem' is about the spread, not winning outright as you tried to use as a point of argument.


And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
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And the question was did you think the browns would win the game outright? As I said, check the game day prediction thread and you will see a lot of posters gave us no chance.


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Originally Posted by jfanent
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
So did you expect us to win the game outright or not? Just keep spewing on and avoid the question like you've done so far.

Talk about moving the goalposts. The pickem' is about the spread, not winning outright as you tried to use as a point of argument.

I've answered every one of the trolls questions. He's just got to change the topic, constantly, in an effort to apparently look smart? Look at his sig.

Low class is low class. yet he call's others out, then does the same damn thing himself.

last word Larry is a legit name. Sadly, he doesn't see it. Most do, but not larry. He'll be back to change the goal posts again. I guarantee it.

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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
I'm not on an island. It's not my fault that some on here actually felt that winning this game was expected and that they didn't do a great job under the circumstances. In the Dawgtalker pickem's 14 people selected the Raiders to win. 9 selected the Browns to win. Even with homerism involved the majority didn't think we would win this game. That's not an island.

That is your post, I have class. Apparently you have 'change the topic".

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You see DC, if you and Kurt had your own show you could fail to mention that even though with Chubb missing time he ranks fifth in the league in yards after contact. You could fail to mention that Chub scored a TD on a four yard run earlier in the game with very much the same Raiders defensive front. You could also fail to mention that we ran the ball better in the second half of the game than the first half by Chubb recording 42 of his 91 rushing yards in the fourth quarter alone. That way everyone could see only one side of something that looks much different when you put things in perspective.


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Originally Posted by archbolddawg
I've answered every one of the trolls questions. He's just got to change the topic, constantly, in an effort to apparently look smart? Look at his sig.

Low class is low class. yet he call's others out, then does the same damn thing himself.

last word Larry is a legit name. Sadly, he doesn't see it. Most do, but not larry. He'll be back to change the goal posts again. I guarantee it.

And low class is still stalking.

rofl

Still avoiding the question.


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I've answered your damn question, multiple times. You changed your question.

You know how a spread bet works, or not?????

Apparently not, or you you couldn't accept my reasoned response, or...........you're last word larry. Take your pick. Quit making yourself out to be the fool. Or don't, I don't care.

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Originally Posted by Swish
Guys, this is the kind of game where you’re just supposed to say “f it” and just let it rip. And yet both sides of the ball played so scared. It really makes it obvious that this entire coaching staff coaches and schemes not to lose. Woods, Stefanski, or whoever is acting HC, this team has been coached to play soft and scared.

Quoted for truth.

Season on the line, and the coaches did not play to win.

They played to not lose, and how exactly did that turn out?


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Man , this turned into a Hoot !

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For the record, I expected the Browns to win. I always expect them to win. I never expect them to lose.

Betting lines have nothing to do with expectations.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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Originally Posted by archbolddawg
the trolls questions.......Low class is low class..... last word Larry is a legit name.

All the while claiming you're the one with class.

rofl

What is it you say? Oh yes..... Then doesn't see it in himself.


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Browns is the Browns.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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Originally Posted by PrplPplEater
Browns is the Browns.


Sigh, yeah, I can't believe we made that moron correct.

We just find ways to lose. It's really uncanny. If we lived in opposite world we'd be unbeatable in the clutch.

Our FO has been quite good all year, therefore they're the reason we lost (not replacing McLaughlin). you'd think it would be the 3rd string QB, but NOPE he played great! We had to find another way to let the loyal dawgs down.

I spent my entire life not knowing what it was like to root for a real football team, thought we had turned the corner but we found a way to botch it. Hurts so bad.

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Myka, there is no guarantee that we haven't turned the corner. Agreed, it has been a trying season, full of unforeseen's that sunk us early.

Still, we have the nucleus of a fairly solid team. What I do not want, is for this front office to blow everything up all over again just like in the last 20 years. We can still build from this, as disappointing as the season has been.

.02


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Originally Posted by Clemdawg
Myka, there is no guarantee that we haven't turned the corner. Agreed, it has been a trying season, full of unforeseen's that sunk us early.

Still, we have the nucleus of a fairly solid team. What I do not want, is for this front office to blow everything up all over again just like in the last 20 years. We can still build from this, as disappointing as the season has been.

.02

None of us want that, and the FO seems to have taken steps to keep key players. Signing Bitonio and Tretter are the latest examples.

No doubt we won't be able to keep everybody. We have a lot of guys on D that are on 1 year deals or expiring deals. I think we are going to try to keep some.


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Originally Posted by Clemdawg
Myka, there is no guarantee that we haven't turned the corner. Agreed, it has been a trying season, full of unforeseen's that sunk us early.

Still, we have the nucleus of a fairly solid team. What I do not want, is for this front office to blow everything up all over again just like in the last 20 years. We can still build from this, as disappointing as the season has been.

.02


Yeah, our coaching staff is great, our FO is great, but we're still the Browns and get hit with terrible injuries, covid, kickers, etc. you name it, and if those don't get the job done the Refs step in.

I think we should fire everyone and hire only people that grew up Browns fans, because only a non-Browns fan wouldn't know to go for it on 4th down at the end of that game or call run/screen 2nd and 3rd. We've seen this movie. Every Browns fan knew as soon as we missed that kick we were gonna lose by 3 or less. Actions should've been taken. A special play. Anything.

Btw I'm not serious about that, don't think we should fire anyone, this is the best coaching staff + FO combo we've had since the return, it's just the Refs and Luck that keep getting us. Honestly, feels harder to beat than the other NFL teams.

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“ hire only people that grew up Browns fans”

Sure, new Head Coach Drew Carey. So at his post game interviews, he can talk about where everything is made up and the points don’t matter.

Just like the past 20 years.

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Signing Bitonio and Tretter are the latest examples.

I think you mean Wyatt Teller, not Tretter.


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Afraid I am the contrarian here. Ski went from Coach of the year to a Head scratcher year ( at the OC spot ) . Woods has never been my guy at DC. I will be curious to see how the off season plays out in those two areas ??????

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In our last eight games the defense has given up more than 20 points exactly twice. Barking up the wrong tree doesn't help.


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Originally Posted by waterdawg
Afraid I am the contrarian here. Ski went from Coach of the year to a Head scratcher year ( at the OC spot ) . Woods has never been my guy at DC. I will be curious to see how the off season plays out in those two areas ??????
I've been down on play calling a fair amount this year but Stefanski is in year 2 of being a head coach and only in year 3 of being a play caller... I'm still not convinced he shouldn't give up the play calling but either way, he still has some learning to do... As for Woods, the defense has been really good as this year has progressed. Points are down, turnovers are up... the offense has repeatedly let us down.


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Merry Christmas . Totally hear were your coming from .. Ski has been an OC in the League for a while now . I just think there is a disconnect with his QB. I am not sure Baker will reach his true ( as I see it ) potential under Ski. I am just stubborn when it comes to Woods . Don't like the style or scheme as it were .

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